Pharmacist graduation rate to be 15,000 new grads per year by 2018....

[deleted480308]

Pharmacist jobs are indeed subject to market forces, including those who are good managers.

ask lawyers about market forces.....everything bows to supply and demand eventually

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Gombrich12]

So what is the typical breakdown of clinical to staffing time in hybrid roles? 80/20?

 

[confettiflyer]

I preround from 7-9, round until 11. Lunch. Follow up on patients in the afternoon. peace out at 330 or 4.

The entire time I verify orders for my unit and a couple of other floors. No dispensing... The order verification responsibility picks up in the afternoon

This sounds like my set-up. It's more than doable. The only places this may not be feasible is ED and sterile compounding if your operations are that large.

If you're a multi-site system you can leverage outside staff as well.

 

[confettiflyer]

Right- it's nice not having to dispense honestly. But I am glad that I do it from time to time. I can't see myself doing this forever. Like you I want to get into management eventually.

I don't mind the physical dispensing part every now and then, it's nice to "touch" pharmaceutical product like once a week or so. Really it's the hours that'll eventually wear on me...I usually work days but here and there I cover nights/weekends. I think 40 year old me will want M-F bankers hours at some point.

 

[BF7]

Dude CVS supervisors do not make that much more than their staff pharmacists and PIC. I did a rotation with one who told me that some of the pharmacist he manages makes more per year than him after overtime. Keep in mind-- he makes a flat salary and works at least 50 hours a week.

"dude"--this was based on the hypothetical that was posted in the above statements. My premise is that in community pharmacy, the financial pressures and Pharmacist surplus will lead to a salary reset to lower wages in the 20-35% range. Another poster speculated that as a middle manager, he would be insulated from such economic factors (it turns out he's in hospital Pharmacy not community and that likely accounts for his misunderstanding) and middle managers would be "protected" from the salary contraction. I listed many reasons why he was wrong.

And even if that's the case at CVS, then the frontline RPhs will be making $42 and the DMs $45 in the coming years (post 2018 monsoon of grads.)---still a salary reset for all.

 

[xiphoid2010]

The disconnect between the world ( and economics) of hospital pharmacy and community pharmacy is a wide one as evidenced by your posts. The changes in economic factors ( more aggressive MAC Pricing by PBMS, the coming surplus nationwide) seeping into community pharmacy have far more reaching implications for our profession than you can obviously fathom.

No. That difference is irrelevant. You call MAC pricing, we call DRG shrinking. The bottom line is that reimbursement is being squeezed, retail and hospital alike.

Pharmacy cost is dominated by 2 things (1) drugs and (2) payroll. Since we are talking about pay of ground troops vs. mid level managers, let's focus on the payroll.

Where does the biggest payroll savings rest? You hear people complain why the CEO's pay doesn't get cut when the worker's are getting paid less. One big reason because cutting the cost of a few doesn't make much of a financial impact. The biggest chunk of payroll is staff. E.g Cutting 1 DM's salary by 10% saves you $17k/yr, but having him cut his 20 staff hours by 7% saves $200k/yr. Further more, who will carry out the corporate directive to cut cost? The upper management doesn't do it, and the staff won't do it to themselves. Is upper management going to jeopardize the $200k/yr cost savings by cutting the salary of the guy who is going to execute it?

Like I said in the beginning. The middle management isn't as much in danger of the same forces that impact the ground troop payrate. What middle managers are more exposed to is a different set of forces, reorganization.

 

[BF7]

No. That difference is irrelevant. You call MAC pricing, we call DRG shrinking. The bottom line is that reimbursement is being squeezed, retail and hospital alike.

Pharmacy cost is dominated by 2 things (1) drugs and (2) payroll. Since we are talking about pay of ground troops vs. mid level managers, let's focus on the payroll.

Where does the biggest payroll savings rest? You hear people complain why the CEO's pay doesn't get cut when the worker's are getting paid less. One big reason because cutting the cost of a few doesn't make much of a financial impact. The biggest chunk of payroll is staff. E.g Cutting 1 DM's salary by 10% saves you $17k/yr, but having him cut his 20 staff hours by 7% saves $200k/yr. Further more, who will carry out the corporate directive to cut cost? The upper management doesn't do it, and the staff won't do it to themselves. Is upper management going to jeopardize the $200k/yr cost savings by cutting the salary of the guy who is going to execute it?

Like I said in the beginning. The middle management isn't as much in danger of the same forces that impact the ground troop payrate. What middle managers are more exposed to is a different set of forces, reorganization.

You're writing yourself into circles. You apply far too much value to a mid level manager's ability to affect the store level performance; these mid level managers in community pharmacy are typically just the Pharmacists who are best at saying "YES" to any and all corporate directives and typically have a high turnover rate anyhow. You're lack of awareness as to who are filling these mid level manager positions in community pharmacy currently is DIRECTLY related to you being removed from the community pharmacy setting and instead practicing inside of a healthcare system hospital. You still don't understand the simple fact that each and every brick and mortar store is required BY LAW to have a pharmacist present. The brick and mortar store real estate has an associated cost and value to them (MILLIONS IF NOT BILLIONS) and there are thousands more community pharmacies than hospitals and alas..STORE LEVEL PHARMACIST JOBS. These brick and mortar stores will not simply be closed because of payroll at the store level especially given the fact that the DOWNWARD pressures on store level Pharmacist payroll will be ever present especially come 2018 WHEN THE SURPLUS is expected to give rise to 1 in 5 new grads being JOBLESS.

AGAIN, corporate AMERICA is beholden to one thing, stock holders (remember when WAGs was attempting to move it's HQ overseas for Tax aversion?) and their profits. How and why you cannot see that a consolidation at the more expensive mid level manager ranks (especially those making $65+ per hour when store level RPh's will be making in the mid $40s) will be one of the FIRST things to occur is beyond me. (--the second will be a consolidation of the store level float pool and part timers that were making in the $60's).Mid level managers aren't a LAWFUL necessity to have inside THOUSANDS of valuable real estate assets and they can work virtually anywhere and be given larger territories to cover once consolidated. And in the longer term, guess what? Once the CVS's, Rite Aid's and WAG's of the world want to expand their mid level manager ranks again, those new managers will be plucked from the store level where median pay rate will be in the mid $40s.....so their mid level managers will also have suffered from the market pressures of salary deflation and will be working for slightly more than their store level counterpart Pharmacists. You're outlook is painted with "Rainbows and Leprechauns" my friend....but unfortunately for our profession, there isn't a pot of gold waiting for the majority of us...........quite the opposite.

Here's a REAL WORLD EXAMPLE from the world of RETAIL:

http://www.twincities.com/ci_25232721/best-buy-laying-off-about-2-000-managers

"Best Buy plans to lay off roughly 2,000 managers as the electronics retailer continues to cut costs, according to sources at the company's Richfield headquarters.
Although no store closings are planned, the electronics retailer "has begun laying off thousands of midlevel managers nationwide as it girds for more competition," the New York Post reported Wednesday. "

"BUT, BUT BUT, IF THEY ONLY WOULD CUT THE STORE LEVEL EMPLOYEES MAKING LESS MONEY!" --XIPHOID2010

 

[owlegrad]

Trying to argue over who will get it worst in the pharmacy surplus is like arguing over if you would rather be punched in the face or kicked in the balls. Why y'all both don't see that mid-level managers AND front line RPhs are going to suffer equally is beyond me.

 

[BF7]

Trying to argue over who will get it worst in the pharmacy surplus is like arguing over if you would rather be punched in the face or kicked in the balls. Why y'all both don't see that mid-level managers AND front line RPhs are going to suffer equally is beyond me.

Xiphoid2010 is arguing that mid level managers will be safe in this Pharmacist surplus era that is being ushered in....that is like writing that beach front property will be safer than inland lying property when a category 4 hurricane comes blowing on through.......it's completely illogical, foolhardy and devoid from the realities of economics.........

 

[xiphoid2010]

You're writing yourself into circles. You apply far too much value to a mid level manager's ability to affect the store level performance; these mid level managers in community pharmacy are typically just the Pharmacists who are best at saying "YES" to any and all corporate directives and typically have a high turnover rate anyhow. You're lack of awareness as to who are filling these mid level manager positions in community pharmacy currently is DIRECTLY related to you being removed from the community pharmacy setting and instead practicing inside of a healthcare system hospital. You still don't understand the simple fact that each and every brick and mortar store is required BY LAW to have a pharmacist present. The brick and mortar store real estate has an associated cost and value to them (MILLIONS IF NOT BILLIONS) and there are thousands more community pharmacies than hospitals and alas..STORE LEVEL PHARMACIST JOBS. These brick and mortar stores will not simply be closed because of payroll at the store level especially given the fact that the DOWNWARD pressures on store level Pharmacist payroll will be ever present especially come 2018 WHEN THE SURPLUS is expected to give rise to 1 in 5 new grads being JOBLESS.

AGAIN, corporate AMERICA is beholden to one thing, stock holders (remember when WAGs was attempting to move it's HQ overseas for Tax aversion?) and their profits. How and why you cannot see that a consolidation at the more expensive mid level manager ranks (especially those making $65+ per hour when store level RPh's will be making in the mid $40s) will be one of the FIRST things to occur is beyond me. (--the second will be a consolidation of the store level float pool and part timers that were making in the $60's).Mid level managers aren't a LAWFUL necessity to have inside THOUSANDS of valuable real estate assets and they can work virtually anywhere and be given larger territories to cover once consolidated. And in the longer term, guess what? Once the CVS's, Rite Aid's and WAG's of the world want to expand their mid level manager ranks again, those new managers will be plucked from the store level where median pay rate will be in the mid $40s.....so their mid level managers will also have suffered from the market pressures of salary deflation and will be working for slightly more than their store level counterpart Pharmacists. You're outlook is painted with "Rainbows and Leprechauns" my friend....but unfortunately for our profession, there isn't a pot of gold waiting for the majority of us...........quite the opposite.

Here's a REAL WORLD EXAMPLE from the world of RETAIL:

http://www.twincities.com/ci_25232721/best-buy-laying-off-about-2-000-managers

Your argument is flawed. Retail or hospital, the same cost cutting methods apply. Stop trying use retail as smoke and mirrors. Why can't see the biggest cost savings comes from the low hanging fruit is also beyond me. Manger's pay is tiny compared to the rank and file. When you go for cost cutting, you go for the biggest sources -- and that's the huge number of staffs. Why not post how many people were laid off by the american automakers, and how many were rank and file vs managers?

I already said that mid manager are exposed to a different set of forces -- reorganization. And your example just illustrate that point, Best Buy is trying to change how the company is run to compete with Amazon, and their management structure is "bloated" quoting your own article, which is what's making them uncompetitive.

But again, that's nothing like a pharmacist surplus is it? So why comparing apples to oranges? When you have a surplus of ground troops who's chewing up the bulk of your payroll, why can't you see the common sense to cut cost at the ground level? How many DM that you know of has taken pay cuts? While how many hours, overlaps, overtimes, in retail stores have been cut? Think about it.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Trying to argue over who will get it worst in the pharmacy surplus is like arguing over if you would rather be punched in the face or kicked in the balls. Why y'all both don't see that mid-level managers AND front line RPhs are going to suffer equally is beyond me.

No, they most likely not going to be suffer equally, for the reasons I have stated. The two types of jobs are subject to different kinds of market forces. During the every day cost cutting, front line RPh will suffer more. While during reorganizations, mid level mangers are at risk. But the odds of both happening at the exactly same time to the same degree is rare, and hence the probability is not suffering equally.

In the case of surplus, trying to get a job will become harder, and who is needed to handle the hiring and cost cutting? This is not a reorg, so management is not as affected as front line. Now if the retail pharmacy dispensing model no longer works (or in the case of Best Buy, a competitor with a more efficient model ala Amazon shows up), then the managers should be very afraid.

 

[wagrxm2000]

No, they most likely not going to be suffer equally, for the reasons I have stated. The two types of jobs are subject to different kinds of market forces. During the every day cost cutting, front line RPh will suffer more. While during reorganizations, mid level mangers are at risk. But the odds of both happening at the exactly same time to the same degree is rare, and hence the probability is not suffering equally.

In the case of surplus, trying to get a job will become harder, and who is needed to handle the hiring and cost cutting? This is not a reorg, so management is not as affected as front line. Now if the retail pharmacy dispensing model no longer works (or in the case of Best Buy, a competitor with a more efficient model ala Amazon shows up), then the managers should be very afraid.

First post on sdn. What's being missed here is the DM or for wag, the pharmacy supervisor positions are not important positions. They are simply there to push all the programs. Merge disricts and shrink the total number of DMs and supervisors by 100 each and you are saving the company 30 million a year. Stores won't be hurt by new grads that are clueless which will piss off customers and cost the store money. I personally know I can show I'm worth $30k more per year. My relationships with the public alone bring business that would leave without me. The mid managers on other hand really have no direct effect on how any store runs. You can move a store manager making $60k in some of my districts stores into the position and get the same outcomes with only a slight raise plus have them control two districts.

 

[xiphoid2010]

First post on sdn. What's being missed here is the DM or for wag, the pharmacy supervisor positions are not important positions. They are simply there to push all the programs. Merge disricts and shrink the total number of DMs and supervisors by 100 each and you are saving the company 30 million a year. Stores won't be hurt by new grads that are clueless which will piss off customers and cost the store money. I personally know I can show I'm worth $30k more per year. My relationships with the public alone bring business that would leave without me. The mid managers on other hand really have no direct effect on how any store runs. You can move a store manager making $60k in some of my districts stores into the position and get the same outcomes with only a slight raise plus have them control two districts.

This is what I once thought of management as well, because I didn't understand at the time what management was about and what it involved. Each level has the tendency to think that they are the main workhorse and those above are just overpaid golfers coming down with stupid ideas to make our lives miserable.

Even with some better understanding now, I still find myself thinking that at times, eg, once upper management wanted me to cut pharmacy cost by 20%! That's just crazy I thought and fought back (yes, mid managers may be front line troops' unappreciated friend). I managed to hold the line but nursing got bit hard (went from average 5:1 to 6-7:1 on patient to nurse ratio, some nurses are gone). And here is another example of cutting cost at the biggest source: nursing payroll is so much bigger than pharmacy, they were the low hanging fruit and got hit big, while pharmacy being a much smaller piece was let off comparatively easily. The DON didn't get cut, her staff did. But she had the unenviable task of executing the cuts, and after it was all done, she was so unhappy that she took another job at another hospital.

Anyway, only just recently I started to see what that came from...upper management were buying several more facilities and needed better numbers for financing and cash reserve. So what seemed crazy at the time wasn't crazy if you knew why.

 

[confettiflyer]

The distance in knowledge in this thread is striking.

I say we merge this into the Sky is Falling super thread and call it a day.

 

[BidingMyTime]

A bit off topic, as this has nothing to do with economics, but I have seen far more pharmacy managers/directors get fired for no other reason then they didn't play "politics" well and weren't liked by nursing or their supervisors or less commonly their technician/pharmacist staff, then I have seen staff pharmacists get fired for the same political reasons. Far more. The take-away for me, if you do you job well, you will have a much more secure position as a staff pharmacist, then you will have as a manager/director.

 

[MountainPharmD]

As long as state boards require that a Pharmacist oversee the dispensing process (in person) the worker bee pharmacist will always have more opportunities for employment than a middle manager. Your post is the exact opposite of what happens in REALITY. The reality will be that wages will stagnate or go down and hours will likely be cut with only the PIC getting 40 hours a week once the glut of Pharmacists enters the market. The SMART pharmacists are opening their own stores or purchasing existing stores as we speak....what's bad for a our profession (the PharmD surplus) will be good for EMPLOYERS....

It's already happening at Target pharmacies. All most all of them have gone to a 40 hour a week PIC and one part time staff Rph.

 

[Vatic]

http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/pharmacist/Lies-about-pharmacist-job-market/t264349/p17

A flurry of new posts.

 

[BF7]

http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/pharmacist/Lies-about-pharmacist-job-market/t264349/p17

A flurry of new posts.

Sad times ahead for our once promising profession. It's been downhill ever since Humphrey- Durham ( remember being taught in pharmacy school that this was a good thing?) for our profession when that ACT put our profession in the back of the bus and reliant solely upon physician prescription drug orders and big Pharma supplying us our meds to practice pharmacy....before Humphrey -Durham patients would see their local " druggist" for unique remedies for common illnesses and see their physician almost solely when surgery or hospitalization was required.

 

[oldstock]

Sad times ahead for our once promising profession. It's been downhill ever since Humphrey- Durham ( remember being taught in pharmacy school that this was a good thing?) for our profession when that ACT put our profession in the back of the bus and reliant solely upon physician prescription drug orders and big Pharma supplying us our meds to practice pharmacy....before Humphrey -Durham patients would see their local " druggist" for unique remedies for common illnesses and see their physician almost solely when surgery or hospitalization was required.

I'm just thinking... that might have been also possible before lawyers discovered what a goldmine that was (for the lack of education and training) for a misdiagnose of something serious, which could quickly turn into a big lawsuit...

imho, sad time for our profession started when schools started popping up and non-stop like crazy...

 

[BenJammin]

It's already happening at Target pharmacies. All most all of them have gone to a 40 hour a week PIC and one part time staff Rph.

But their volume isn't that much, right? I interned at a Target for my P4 rotations and we had that formula while filling no more than 100 a day.

 

[BF7]

The distance in knowledge in this thread is striking.

I say we merge this into the Sky is Falling super thread and call it a day.

If this discussion is too big for you simply ignore the thread....

 

[BF7]

I'm just thinking... that might have been also possible before lawyers discovered what a goldmine that was (for the lack of education and training) for a misdiagnose of something serious, which could quickly turn into a big lawsuit...

imho, sad time for our profession started when schools started popping up and non-stop like crazy...

....the gold mine was for the more powerful medical physician lobby and the more powerful Pharma lobby that was beginning to develop....Pharmacists to this day don't do a good job with lobbying for our profession...it's too fractured. APhA, NCPA(I'm a member of this) , NACDS, etc....sometimes they work together, but many times they don't

 

[Mad Jack]

Mid level manager= DM. Then if you aren't willing to work in your store on the front line, you've just become more expendable ... Now it's $70+$45 +$45. Which number stands out? Who is required BY LAW to be present in order to conduct pharmacy business? The $45 per hour employee or the $70 mid level manager? Are these companies simply going to close stores and lose valuable real estate to keep their mid level managers? So why again would a mid level manager making $70 be more secure than a front line pharmacist making $45? In this scenario there will be a lot fewer employees making $70 per hour and they will be working harder and covering a wider area and more stores without a shadow of a doubt.you simply don't understand the BUSINESS of community pharmacy.

District managers are usually amongst the last to be laid off, as they're pretty essential to retail operations, pharmacy or otherwise. That you don't understand the utility of good management shows your lack of future management potential.

 

[Silvermist]

You keep thinking that way and you're going to end up severely disappointed.... by 2018 new grads will be coming out of school and being hired on at $42 per hour and you're making $65+. ........and your take is "I'm more experienced, I've got blood sweat and tears into this company, I can do that job but they can't do mine...etc., etc.".....you know what that is going to get you in corporate America? An extra few weeks of severance pay.

Not to mention that a not-terribly-insignificant number of students are non-traditionally aged and have had career changes. I used to do major account management for a large company. Another classmate of mine used to be a corporate director. Some of us have preexisting MBAs. The downturn in our various industries over the years (plus our love of science) set us on a path towards pharmacy. We may be new to pharmacy, but not all of us are new to management nor would be averse to doing it again in the future.

 

[BF7]

District managers are usually amongst the last to be laid off, as they're pretty essential to retail operations, pharmacy or otherwise. That you don't understand the utility of good management shows your lack of future management potential.

I'm a PHARMACY OWNER. ...and yes, Mid-level managers will be consolidated.....and there is no lawful reason why mid level managers have to hold a Pharmacist license.

Plus, chain pharmacy mid level managers (DM's) are notoriously known for being uncompromising " Yes-men/Yes-women" able to be the voice for some NON-pharmacist, MBA derived corporate policy or program that puts profit above patient care all at the risk of the practicing Pharmacists license. (and they have a high turnover rate) So I appreciate the compliment......

 

[oldstock]

....the gold mine was for the more powerful medical physician lobby and the more powerful Pharma lobby that was beginning to develop....Pharmacists to this day don't do a good job with lobbying for our profession...it's too fractured. APhA, NCPA(I'm a member of this) , NACDS, etc....sometimes they work together, but many times they don't

I absolutely agree with you on this. In fact, pharmacists seems to not care enough about where the future leads them. They seem to be just a bunch of sheep or just too confident

 

[confettiflyer]

If this discussion is too big for you simply ignore the thread....

How on earth did you arrive to this conclusion...ah nevermind, you win the Internet. Enjoy fapping to your posts, lol.

 

[zelman]

Economics of retail and hospital pharmacy are fundamentally different. A retail pharmacy that loses money closes. A hospital pharmacy that loses money can have that cost offset by profitability of the rest of the institution. People on the top may disagree with that and try to restructure and make cuts, but paychecks won't bounce. That's a big difference.

 

[anewmanx]

Soooooo... the moral of this story is you should open up a pharmacy and continue to replace your Rph's with starving new ones every year at a lower salary until your bottom line is so fat you could cry with joy.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Economics of retail and hospital pharmacy are fundamentally different. A retail pharmacy that loses money closes. A hospital pharmacy that loses money can have that cost offset by profitability of the rest of the institution. People on the top may disagree with that and try to restructure and make cuts, but paychecks won't bounce. That's a big difference.

In term of organization structure, hospital pharmacy is more akin to Walmart/target/grocery store pharmacies, a minor piece of a larger picture, than Walgreen/CVS. Wasn't it Walmart that start the $4 generics to boost overall store revenue?

 

[zelman]

In term of organization structure, hospital pharmacy is more akin to Walmart/target/grocery store pharmacies, a minor piece of a larger picture, than Walgreen/CVS. Wasn't it Walmart that start the $4 generic to boost overall store revenue?

Yes, indeed. Correct on both counts.

 

[BF7]

So

How on earth did you arrive to this conclusion...ah nevermind, you win the Internet. Enjoy fapping to your posts, lol.

You come in, post an insult " sky is falling, close thread" directed at the topic being discussed because you obviously feel insulated ( for some reason other than living in reality) from the far reaching implications of having 1 of every 5 pharmacy school graduates potentially unemployed. You've posted nothing of value in this thread.

 

[BF7]

Yes, indeed. Correct on both counts.

This thread is about the impact that the tsunami of pharmacists coming in 2018 will have on pharmacist employment opportunity and pay scale. A department will not maintain optimal employment opportunities ( and department managers certainly won't stay employed) if a pharmacy department , whether in a hospital or community setting, is losing money.

This hospital manager is completely out of touch with the realities of big chain, MBA bean counter leadership in community pharmacy , the role that they play ( they are yes men) and how the economic pressures of a pharmacist surplus will reach out and touch middle management as well. the $65/hr middle managers will be replaced by PICs who were accustomed to making mid 40's per hour and then get a slight raise effectively ushering in a new pay scale for DMs... And that's only if the company's chose to have pharmacists fill those DM positions at all. This hospital manager writes about re-organization and cost cutting as though they are mutually exclusive ... They are fundamentally undertaken for one reason.. To improve productivity that is judged on the basis of profitability.

 

[BF7]

In term of organization structure, hospital pharmacy is more akin to Walmart/target/grocery store pharmacies, a minor piece of a larger picture, than Walgreen/CVS. Wasn't it Walmart that start the $4 generics to boost overall store revenue?

NO, it was insurance companies MAC pricing on generics that started this trend ( some are actually less than $4).Walmart simply decided to offer this discounted pricing to cash patients as well.... But their pharmacy departments are still profitable. Outside of their $4 and $10 generic drug list, they price everything else in the 95th percentile for cash patients. Plus they are making minimum 40% margin on their vast OTC sales. Independent pharmacies are traditionally less expensive overall for patients without insurance who happen to be on brand name therapy.


I give you exhibit A on MAC pricing..this is from my store and it was happening long before Walmart brought out the $4 Generic list..

 

[BF7]

Soooooo... the moral of this story is you should open up a pharmacy and continue to replace your Rph's with starving new ones every year at a lower salary until your bottom line is so fat you could cry with joy.

the chains are salivating right now...and they've been investing in these new Pharmacy schools as well....

 

[anewmanx]

Honestly only two options to get ahead in the future. Business ownership or unionization.

 

[BF7]

Honestly only two options to get ahead in the future. Business ownership or unionization.

You're spot on...I am actually in the process of opening my second Pharmacy and this time I will be partnering with a guy I used to work with at a mail order operation who was unceremoniously laid off by Express Scripts in May of this year. I am probably more excited to bring to him the sense of professional satisfaction that Pharmacy ownership can foster (and that I have experienced) than I am to be opening my second store.

 

[confettiflyer]

So



You come in, post an insult " sky is falling, close thread" directed at the topic being discussed because you obviously feel insulated ( for some reason other than living in reality) from the far reaching implications of having 1 of every 5 pharmacy school graduates potentially unemployed. You've posted nothing of value in this thread.

I made you type all that, my job is done!

 

[xiphoid2010]

This obsession is not going to end with even another 50 pages. Let's wait for 2018 to come around and see which parts of the pharmacy are more impacted by new grads.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Let's talk about something really harrowing...

It took me 6 months to get a Texas Medicaid vendor ID. The incompetence in the State of Texas Medicaid program is troubling. All so I can get the ****tiest reimbursement out there.

 

[BenJammin]

Let's talk about something really harrowing...

It took me 6 months to get a Texas Medicaid vendor ID. The incompetence in the State of Texas Medicaid program is troubling. All so I can get the ****tiest reimbursement out there.

How's your pharmacy coming along?

 

[MountainPharmD]

How's your pharmacy coming along?

Awesome! I'm in the beginning stages of opening my second store. Shooting for a January 2015 opening. I have plans on paper for my third. The opportunities are out there...you just have to think outside the box and move out of your comfort zone a little.

I'll be looking for a PIC in a couple months...

 

[BF7]

Let's talk about something really harrowing...

It took me 6 months to get a Texas Medicaid vendor ID. The incompetence in the State of Texas Medicaid program is troubling. All so I can get the ****tiest reimbursement out there.

State run medicaid isn't bad (vendor drug program)--the PBM run medicaid program isn't worth participating in if you are in the city; if you're rural it's better. Which PBMs service your area in the medicaid program? I have navitus, CRK and US Script. US script is by far the worst.

What's truly criminal is the TRS-care extended days supply reimbursment--it's WELL LESS than AQ pricing for Brands but ONLY for 90 day Rxs, for 30 day rxs we are reimbursed at an average rate ....but tat's THOUSANDS of retired Texas Teachers who are having their business BOUGHT by Caremark at the BROKER LEVEL...and Caremark says to us Pharmacies, "sure, you can dispense 90 day supplies to retired Texas Teachers, but only if you;re willing to take a LOSS." Only in pharmacy are insurance companies also our competitors and allowed to set our prices, direct patient traffic via copay differences or closing networks outright AND they are able to data mine our customers for THEIR benefit ("you could save money by going through mail."_

Are you a mckesson customer and are you part of Health Mart?

 

[MountainPharmD]

State run medicaid isn't bad (vendor drug program)--the PBM run medicaid program isn't worth participating in if you are in the city; if you're rural it's better. Which PBMs service your area in the medicaid program? I have navitus, CRK and US Script. US script is by far the worst.

What's truly criminal is the TRS-care extended days supply reimbursment--it's WELL LESS than AQ pricing for Brands but ONLY for 90 day Rxs, for 30 day rxs we are reimbursed at an average rate ....but tat's THOUSANDS of retired Texas Teachers who are having their business BOUGHT by Caremark at the BROKER LEVEL...and Caremark says to us Pharmacies, "sure, you can dispense 90 day supplies to retired Texas Teachers, but only if you;re willing to take a LOSS." Only in pharmacy are insurance companies also our competitors and allowed to set our prices, direct patient traffic via copay differences or closing networks outright AND they are able to data mine our customers for THEIR benefit ("you could save money by going through mail."_

Are you a mckesson customer and are you part of Health Mart?

No, Morris and Dickson. I've heard bad things about McKesson...antiquated DOS based counter system, they cater to their large clients like Wal-Mart, take it or leave it type attitude...I never considered them.

 

[MountainPharmD]

I've never heard of a difference in reimbursement between rural and city...

 

[BF7]

I've never heard of a difference in reimbursement between rural and city...

Absolutely. If you are rural and you do your own contracting you need to push back on the PBMs ASAP...each PBM defines rural differently ... Most state you are the only outpatient pharmacy within a 20 mile radius. Medicaid in texas also pays you a slightly better dispense fee for free delivery.

 

[BF7]

DOS based counter system? did u mean computer system? I love pharmaserv and it's not DOS based at all although pionerrrx seems to be slightly ahead on the tech portion but McKesson soon follows them with comparable updates.

I actually comped Morris Dickson in June and my group is beating them by close to 4% on COGs. We are always looking to add stores to our group as well. If youre interested in comparing prices on meds PM me...and they support us health mart stores very well. For $200 per month we get advertising support, marketing materials, signage, name tags, pens, a website, etc .... Health mart makes it possible to compete within chains in terms of brand image as well.

 

[BenJammin]

Awesome! I'm in the beginning stages of opening my second store. Shooting for a January 2015 opening. I have plans on paper for my third. The opportunities are out there...you just have to think outside the box and move out of your comfort zone a little.

I'll be looking for a PIC in a couple months...

Nice! Did you take out a business loan to do all of this? Seems like a lot of money to be opening two stores!

 

[MountainPharmD]

Absolutely. If you are rural and you do your own contracting you need to push back on the PBMs ASAP...each PBM defines rural differently ... Most state you are the only outpatient pharmacy within a 20 mile radius. Medicaid in texas also pays you a slightly better dispense fee for free delivery.

I don't think many off us are doing our own contracting. Most of us are part of a PSAO. You mentioned you are with Health Mart. Don't you have to accept their negotiated rates as a condition of being part of Health Mart?

 

[MountainPharmD]

DOS based counter system? did u mean computer system? I love pharmaserv and it's not DOS based at all although pionerrrx seems to be slightly ahead on the tech portion but McKesson soon follows them with comparable updates.

Pharmaserve is a DOS based system with a fancy GUI to make it look like a windows based system. Underneath it's all DOS. I've seen Pharmaserve. Of all the systems I've used and seen it was by far the worst. Basically a small step above a type writer and universal claim forms in my opinion. A very basic bill and fill system.