Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

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All I know is that my wife can't find a job anywhere in Southwestern PA as a new grad trying to get on as a staff pharmacist. Right now we are planning on maybe heading up to Pittsburgh where there are more published job openings...and even then, I'm not so sure we'll have much luck.

Thought I read from you in the last month or so that she had multiple offers?

Members don't see this ad.
 
Thought I read from you in the last month or so that she had multiple offers?

Yeah...until people who got laid off at Brownsville Hospital (which closed) all of a sudden flooded the market...those jobs all went *poof*. Like 6 pharmacists with years of experience going for about 3 jobs...versus a new grad...a no brainer for those institutions...
 
If you need a clever quote or two, PM me...lol.

All I know is that my wife can't find a job anywhere in Southwestern PA as a new grad trying to get on as a staff pharmacist. Right now we are planning on maybe heading up to Pittsburgh where there are more published job openings...and even then, I'm not so sure we'll have much luck.

I think she could get a retail gig, though...but she vehemently refuses to work in retail ever again. God, I love her...

where u guys looking? im from western pa :)

and i can tell u, the job market is bleak around here
 
Members don't see this ad :)
where u guys looking? im from western pa :)

and i can tell u, the job market is bleak around here

I'm looking North to Allegheny County for now. I see that Forbes...UMPC Childrens...UPMC Magee...St Clair's...Jefferson...that hospital up North of Plum and Penn Hills with the weird Polish hyphen name...all have jobs posted...
 
I hear you can get a $10 million contract for two years in Alaska.

lol oh lord. I grew up and worked in Alaska.... and I promise you there is no $10 million dollar contract. It's not even believable
 
Oh, we know...it's a running joke on here...

oh.. thank goodness! I have literally heard my classmates and even pharmacists I work with now ask me about it seriously
 
Being a P1, I don't have much to contribute other than my preceptor/"some" speakers telling me that the jobs are scarce.

Why not just quoting the ideas, statistics and info from various articles regarding the improved or excessive supply posted here on SDN and also including specific quote/info from someone here who are willing to disclose their identity? Also include what we can do to ensure that the demand will keep up with the increasing supply..

http://www.ashp.org/import/news/HealthSystemPharmacyNews/newsarticle.aspx?id=3052
http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/pharmacy/conclusions.htm
http://www.pharmacistactivist.com/2008/august_2008.shtml
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/511648_2

New Pharmacist Supply Projections Higher Than Expected J Am Pharm Assoc 2007;47:463-70
http://www.nmafaculty.org/files/.pdf/P&G_PharDigestFall07_LO18.pdf


thank you for planning to write the article!
 
I read and arcitle and it says in 2015 pharmacists supply> demand. That long? I actually can see the oversupply is already reached...which is NOW. Okay, of course there will be openings still, but those are "hard to staff" areas. What happens when pharmacists can't get a job in "good" area? Well, then they have to staff at those "hard to staff" areas. What happens when those hard to staff areas now fully staffed? You're talking about oversupply....then....which is probably NOW.

Too many pharmacy schools...Back in 2004, i remember we had around 81 schools. How many nows? 110 schools?

Say each school produces 100 pharmacists/year (some like USC has more than 200 students/class), then we have around 110 x100 = 11000 new pharmacists per year.

Projections data from National Employment shows that we have 243,000 pharmacist jobs in 2006 and they expect to increase up to 296,000 in 2016.
So 10 yrs job opening spots = 296,000-243,000 = 53,000 jobs opening through out 10 yrs. Back to reality: how many graduating over 10 yrs? 11000/year x10 = 110000 newly producing pharmacists over 10 yrs. So the ratio is like 1:2 , which means 1 job openning, 2 pharmacists applying and 1 get the job, the other is unemployed....

That i haven't talked about people don't wanna retire and work part-time....And with this economy trend, it will continue to get worse.
 
I read and arcitle and it says in 2015 pharmacists supply> demand. That long? I actually can see the oversupply is already reached...which is NOW. Okay, of course there will be openings still, but those are "hard to staff" areas. What happens when pharmacists can't get a job in "good" area? Well, then they have to staff at those "hard to staff" areas. What happens when those hard to staff areas now fully staffed? You're talking about oversupply....then....which is probably NOW.

Too many pharmacy schools...Back in 2004, i remember we had around 81 schools. How many nows? 110 schools?

Say each school produces 100 pharmacists/year (some like USC has more than 200 students/class), then we have around 110 x100 = 11000 new pharmacists per year.

Projections data from National Employment shows that we have 243,000 pharmacist jobs in 2006 and they expect to increase up to 296,000 in 2016.
So 10 yrs job opening spots = 296,000-243,000 = 53,000 jobs opening through out 10 yrs. Back to reality: how many graduating over 10 yrs? 11000/year x10 = 110000 newly producing pharmacists over 10 yrs. So the ratio is like 1:2 , which means 1 job openning, 2 pharmacists applying and 1 get the job, the other is unemployed....

That i haven't talked about people don't wanna retire and work part-time....And with this economy trend, it will continue to get worse.

There are also 4,000-6,000 pharmacists retiring every year that are not included in those figures. So really 50,000 + 53,000 = 103,000. Also with the people who dont want to retire are people who wont want to take full time work. I know some pharmacy students who are pregnant, for example, and only plan on taking 20 hours a week or less after they graduate.
 
There are also 4,000-6,000 pharmacists retiring every year that are not included in those figures. So really 50,000 + 53,000 = 103,000. Also with the people who dont want to retire are people who wont want to take full time work. I know some pharmacy students who are pregnant, for example, and only plan on taking 20 hours a week or less after they graduate.

You made a good point there...however, with this economy mess and 401K loss , MORE people want to work after retirement (part-time and/or per diem) and nobody want to retire early. Therefore this is equivalent to LESS pharmacists resigning from what they are doing. Also, more people want to work more than 40 hrs/week (including me) due to BIG azz Loan debt in school and bad economy (psychologically, people wanna earn more money during recession for the "just in case" situation...).
 
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I am a 3rd soon to be 4th year student at Texas Tech pharm school and this is the first that I have heard of the shortage. I know that highly populated areas like Dallas and Houston were saturated but I didn't realize that it was that way across the country. All I have heard is the 2015 oversupply theory. The problem is that schools don't really inform their students about the health of the industry. They push for residencies but don't emphasize that they might be necessary to even find a job. I think that if schools would keep their students informed then we might have more students buckling down and not just breezing through school for a guaranteed paycheck.
 
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So, what do you guys think will happen to salaries when there are kids with $150,000 in debt coming out of school with no jobs? Do you think they will be desperate and start taking jobs for less pay, because the loans are going to be due soon.

This makes the problem of private schools opening up everywhere look scary. Are we going to be like Chiropractors or Lawyers?? Can this field really support 30 new schools graduating PharmDs in the next few years?



so, here is the speculation for schools that might be opening for 2010....

The University of Maryland Eastern Shores
Drexel
Farleigh Dickinson
D' Youville College
Concordia-Wisconsin-projects a class size of 300.
Presbyterian College-NC
University of South Florida
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine-Atlanta

Here are the current schools that are not fully accredited and have not even started pumping out new grads yet.....


Belmont TN -------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Calilfornia Northstate CA -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Charleston WV---------------------------- Candidate**
Chicago State IL --------------------------Pre-Candidate**
East Tennessee State TN ------------------Candidate**
Findlay OH --------------------------------Candidate**
Harding, University of AR -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Hawaii at Hilo HI ---------------------------Candidate**
Husson University -------------------------No ACPE Status to Date
Incarnate Word TX ------------------------Candidate**
Lipscomb TN ------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
New England, University of ME -------------No ACPE Status to Date
NEOUCOP OH ------------------------------Candidate**
Notre Dame of Maryland*** MD ------------No ACPE Status to Date
Pacific U. (OR) OR -------------------------Candidate**
Regis*** CO------------------------------ No ACPE Status to Date
Southern Illinois Edwardsville IL -------------Candidate**
Sullivan *** KY ----------------------------PreCandidate
Texas A&M - Kingsville TX -------------------Candidate**
Thomas Jefferson *** PA------------------- Pre-Candidate**
Touro (CA) CA -----------------------------Candidate**
Touro (NY) NY -----------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Union TN ----------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
 
So, what do you guys think will happen to salaries when there are kids with $150,000 in debt coming out of school with no jobs? Do you think they will be desperate and start taking jobs for less pay, because the loans are going to be due soon.

This makes the problem of private schools opening up everywhere look scary. Are we going to be like Chiropractors or Lawyers?? Can this field really support 30 new schools graduating PharmDs in the next few years?



so, here is the speculation for schools that might be opening for 2010....

The University of Maryland Eastern Shores
Drexel
Farleigh Dickinson
D' Youville College
Concordia-Wisconsin-projects a class size of 300.
Presbyterian College-NC
University of South Florida
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine-Atlanta

Here are the current schools that are not fully accredited and have not even started pumping out new grads yet.....


Belmont TN -------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Calilfornia Northstate CA -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Charleston WV---------------------------- Candidate**
Chicago State IL --------------------------Pre-Candidate**
East Tennessee State TN ------------------Candidate**
Findlay OH --------------------------------Candidate**
Harding, University of AR -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Hawaii at Hilo HI ---------------------------Candidate**
Husson University -------------------------No ACPE Status to Date
Incarnate Word TX ------------------------Candidate**
Lipscomb TN ------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
New England, University of ME -------------No ACPE Status to Date
NEOUCOP OH ------------------------------Candidate**
Notre Dame of Maryland*** MD ------------No ACPE Status to Date
Pacific U. (OR) OR -------------------------Candidate**
Regis*** CO------------------------------ No ACPE Status to Date
Southern Illinois Edwardsville IL -------------Candidate**
Sullivan *** KY ----------------------------PreCandidate
Texas A&M - Kingsville TX -------------------Candidate**
Thomas Jefferson *** PA------------------- Pre-Candidate**
Touro (CA) CA -----------------------------Candidate**
Touro (NY) NY -----------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Union TN ----------------------------------Pre-Candidate**

This is insane!!!!! Reminding me of the old time when computer science was a hot field and BOOM! an oversupplied market killed everyone after that....until NOW 10 yrs later
 
Yes, this is reminscent of 2001 when the computer engineering craze was coming to a close. It was rough getting a job this year, and I know it will be very tough next year. Things aren't looking good at this moment. Hooray for destroying the profession. Keep opening up those schools. All in the name of profit
 
So, what do you guys think will happen to salaries when there are kids with $150,000 in debt coming out of school with no jobs? Do you think they will be desperate and start taking jobs for less pay, because the loans are going to be due soon.

This makes the problem of private schools opening up everywhere look scary. Are we going to be like Chiropractors or Lawyers?? Can this field really support 30 new schools graduating PharmDs in the next few years?



so, here is the speculation for schools that might be opening for 2010....

The University of Maryland Eastern Shores
Drexel
Farleigh Dickinson
D' Youville College
Concordia-Wisconsin-projects a class size of 300.
Presbyterian College-NC
University of South Florida
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine-Atlanta

Here are the current schools that are not fully accredited and have not even started pumping out new grads yet.....


Belmont TN -------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Calilfornia Northstate CA -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Charleston WV---------------------------- Candidate**
Chicago State IL --------------------------Pre-Candidate**
East Tennessee State TN ------------------Candidate**
Findlay OH --------------------------------Candidate**
Harding, University of AR -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Hawaii at Hilo HI ---------------------------Candidate**
Husson University -------------------------No ACPE Status to Date
Incarnate Word TX ------------------------Candidate**
Lipscomb TN ------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
New England, University of ME -------------No ACPE Status to Date
NEOUCOP OH ------------------------------Candidate**
Notre Dame of Maryland*** MD ------------No ACPE Status to Date
Pacific U. (OR) OR -------------------------Candidate**
Regis*** CO------------------------------ No ACPE Status to Date
Southern Illinois Edwardsville IL -------------Candidate**
Sullivan *** KY ----------------------------PreCandidate
Texas A&M - Kingsville TX -------------------Candidate**
Thomas Jefferson *** PA------------------- Pre-Candidate**
Touro (CA) CA -----------------------------Candidate**
Touro (NY) NY -----------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Union TN ----------------------------------Pre-Candidate**

Bunch of turds...
 
Yes, this is reminscent of 2001 when the computer engineering craze was coming to a close. It was rough getting a job this year, and I know it will be very tough next year. Things aren't looking good at this moment. Hooray for destroying the profession. Keep opening up those schools. All in the name of profit


Booyakasha!
 
What about national healthcare. Obama promised to cover the 50 million uninsured by the end of the year. If that means a 20% increase in patients in the healthcare system, and leads to a 10% increase in prescriptions, and due to efficiencies, we need 5% more pharmacists (instead of 10), then that would still create 12,000 pharmacy jobs. Maybe this math is wrong. What do you guys think?
 
What about national healthcare. Obama promised to cover the 50 million uninsured by the end of the year. If that means a 20% increase in patients in the healthcare system, and leads to a 10% increase in prescriptions, and due to efficiencies, we need 5% more pharmacists (instead of 10), then that would still create 12,000 pharmacy jobs. Maybe this math is wrong. What do you guys think?


we will prob become government employess which = drop in pay...but maybe better benefits
 
What about national healthcare. Obama promised to cover the 50 million uninsured by the end of the year. If that means a 20% increase in patients in the healthcare system, and leads to a 10% increase in prescriptions, and due to efficiencies, we need 5% more pharmacists (instead of 10), then that would still create 12,000 pharmacy jobs. Maybe this math is wrong. What do you guys think?

Promises are promises....i won't believe in anything until seeing it.
 
Actually..hell...does anyone know where to market is 100% for sure still good?

Like...Cleveland?

No like here:
hawaiian_islands.gif

index.cfm
 
Maybe we can look at the situation in a different light. More pharmacists will help create larger lobbying power and further develop the role of the pharmacist. With dispensing jobs no longer being the easy jobs, we'll have pharmacists enhancing their competencies through residencies and developing niches for pharmacy practice.
This article really portrays the ideal pharmacy practice (IMO)
http://www.theannals.com/cgi/content/full/40/7/1409
It maybe that we need to deal with the shortage before we have enough manpower to move the profession forward?
Please don't flame me for being to optimistic/naive :p
 
Maybe we can look at the situation in a different light. More pharmacists will help create larger lobbying power and further develop the role of the pharmacist. With dispensing jobs no longer being the easy jobs, we'll have pharmacists enhancing their competencies through residencies and developing niches for pharmacy practice.
This article really portrays the ideal pharmacy practice (IMO)
http://www.theannals.com/cgi/content/full/40/7/1409
It maybe that we need to deal with the shortage before we have enough manpower to move the profession forward?
Please don't flame me for being to optimistic/naive :p

I have also thought about this. It could be that a lot of outraged unemployed people would organize and try to lobby for change.
 
If you need a clever quote or two, PM me...lol.

All I know is that my wife can't find a job anywhere in Southwestern PA as a new grad trying to get on as a staff pharmacist. Right now we are planning on maybe heading up to Pittsburgh where there are more published job openings...and even then, I'm not so sure we'll have much luck.

I think she could get a retail gig, though...but she vehemently refuses to work in retail ever again. God, I love her...

Is Indiana PA too far north? Diamond Pharmacy (closed-door correctional facility) was a very pleasant rotation-some LTC, some mail-order, some prison, some clinical, no retail, much better starting salary than UPMC.
 
Is Indiana PA too far north? Diamond Pharmacy (closed-door correctional facility) was a very pleasant rotation-some LTC, some mail-order, some prison, some clinical, no retail, much better starting salary than UPMC.

Yeah...too far North and East. I'm not really concerned about pay...I'd rather have a decent job than high pay. Anything over $80-85k is fine with me.
 
I skimmed through the article quickly...However, the article does not address the oversupplying pharmacists!

That wasn't the objective.

This was a critique of the recent accreditation standards.

CanPharm said:
More pharmacists will help create larger lobbying power and further develop the role of the pharmacist. With dispensing jobs no longer being the easy jobs, we'll have pharmacists enhancing their competencies through residencies and developing niches for pharmacy practice.
This article really portrays the ideal pharmacy practice (IMO)
http://www.theannals.com/cgi/content/full/40/7/1409
It maybe that we need to deal with the shortage before we have enough manpower to move the profession forward?

That article is interesting, but omits certain parts of history. Pharmacists as a profession made the decision to tie themselves to medicines and that act of dispensing during the formation of Medicare during the late 40s early 50s. That decision, though lucrative back then, has haunted our profession ever since. It wasn't until Part D that we were recognized as providers.

If you want lobbying power, the first step, and quite possibly one of the most important steps, is to get the approval and support of nursing. Their sheer number manifests itself as one of the strongest and loudest lobbying voices in DC.
 
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Cleveland sucks ass, and smells. You don't want to come here.
 
Cleveland sucks ass, and smells. You don't want to come here.

cleveland isnt THAT bad

the east side is bad, the west side actually has some decent places...you get out to westlake its nice there...good fishing on that side too

the biggest problem with cle is the roads, damn potholes everywhere...and there also cops, they are out everywhere checking speeds
 
New pharmacy times issue has an editorial about the over-supply problem.....has anyone read it? It is spot on!...The time is now to put an end to all the BS....i think an article in AJHP or ACCP is needed....PM me if you are interested in getting this together to write an article....i will not have much time until the end of this residency but students and pharmacists on SDN are needed...

i'll gladly write it with you.
 

pretty weak article. the guy doesnt talk about the big issue of uncontrolled graduation of pharmacists and the numbers coming out. he sounds like your typical person in APhA spewing a bunch of onlooker information after everyone knows what is going on.

I hear his next article is titled "Man Walks on the Moon"
 
Watch for Obama and friends to automize your job, thereby "saving money" and "increasing efficiency" in the new paradigm....Combine this with the massive amount of new schools, and pharmacist days are likely numbered.

Welcome to socialism. It doesn't matter if patients get hurt, or if it's the "wrong" thing to do..Chairman Maobama and others driving healthcare policy are not concerned with such petty things! Want machines to replace pharmacists? Check! Want nurses to replace physicians? Heck yeah!

What about national healthcare. Obama promised to cover the 50 million uninsured by the end of the year. If that means a 20% increase in patients in the healthcare system, and leads to a 10% increase in prescriptions, and due to efficiencies, we need 5% more pharmacists (instead of 10), then that would still create 12,000 pharmacy jobs. Maybe this math is wrong. What do you guys think?
 
Watch for Obama and friends to automize your job, thereby "saving money" and "increasing efficiency" in the new paradigm....Combine this with the massive amount of new schools, and pharmacist days are likely numbered.

Welcome to socialism. It doesn't matter if patients get hurt, or if it's the "wrong" thing to do..Chairman Maobama and others driving healthcare policy are not concerned with such petty things! Want machines to replace pharmacists? Check! Want nurses to replace physicians? Heck yeah!

Do you have a single clue about what your writing? I mean a single one. I personally any day of the week will take government run health care over insurance company health care. I can change the government. I can't do squat about Blue Cross.

Now for a lesson in simple capitalism. The golden rule. He who has the gold rules. As long as the patient is not the payor, he has limited control and that goes for a government plan or a private plan. The patient since he has nothing directly invested in the cost of the service wants the most expensive service despite any evidence of the efficacy of said service. We have socialized medicine now. It's just insurance companies in control instead of the government.
 
cleveland isnt THAT bad

the east side is bad, the west side actually has some decent places...you get out to westlake its nice there...good fishing on that side too

the biggest problem with cle is the roads, damn potholes everywhere...and there also cops, they are out everywhere checking speeds

Well, now, that's only a problem if you speed, isn't it? :laugh:

And as far as national healthcare goes, if it does come to fruition (it won't, by the way...Obama may talk pretty, but at the end of the day, he's still a career politician and a businessman) it won't be the end of the profession. Living near the border, I've talked to several Canadian pharmacists before. The ones with just the Bachelor's don't make very much, but PharmD salaries aren't bad at all, and are fairly comparable to US salaries even accounting for the fact that everything costs more in America Jr.
 
Watch for Obama and friends to automize your job, thereby "saving money" and "increasing efficiency" in the new paradigm....Combine this with the massive amount of new schools, and pharmacist days are likely numbered.

Welcome to socialism. It doesn't matter if patients get hurt, or if it's the "wrong" thing to do..Chairman Maobama and others driving healthcare policy are not concerned with such petty things! Want machines to replace pharmacists? Check! Want nurses to replace physicians? Heck yeah!

actually it would prob significantly increase our responsibilities just like the aformentioned nurse...
 
Unfortunately there is some truth to Emma's words.

"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal"

If people showed up and voted they can change anything they want. You can NEVER change an insurance company. I'll take my chances with unlikely over impossible.
 
Well, now, that's only a problem if you speed, isn't it? :laugh:

And as far as national healthcare goes, if it does come to fruition (it won't, by the way...Obama may talk pretty, but at the end of the day, he's still a career politician and a businessman) it won't be the end of the profession. Living near the border, I've talked to several Canadian pharmacists before. The ones with just the Bachelor's don't make very much, but PharmD salaries aren't bad at all, and are fairly comparable to US salaries even accounting for the fact that everything costs more in America Jr.

Hi,

I thought pharmacists earned the same salary regardless of the pharmacy degree? That's what I have heard so far. And I heard Canadian pharmacists earn almost as much as US equivalents. What's about this info mismatch?

Thanks, mate
 
Hi,

I thought pharmacists earned the same salary regardless of the pharmacy degree? That's what I have heard so far. And I heard Canadian pharmacists earn almost as much as US equivalents. What's about this info mismatch?

Thanks, mate

In the US, degree doesn't matter. Canadian pharmacists made about as much as US pharmacists for about a year a while back when the currencies were worth roughly the same...now that the Greenback is worth more than the Loonie again, they are back to being paid less in absolute money.
 
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