Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

[Humble Sloth]

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.htm
Did anyone pay attention to the new BLS stats? Pharmacist job outlook from 2014 - 2024 is 3%!!! around 9000 jobs
Currently we're pumping out more grads than that each YEAR
Just a couple years ago it was 16%. What happened? Did they finally catch on?
Everyone better hold on to your job tight.

This isn't news. The expected unemployment for new pharmacy grads is 20% in 2020. Luckily my four year engineering degree is "Job Outlook, 2014-24 1% (Little or no change)" so 3% is triple the job growth and is a feast for me. I feel bad for all the non-super hungry people in pharmacy school looking for an easy, rewarding or stable job because that doesn't exist in this field. This field is about straight greed and only the greediest will survive.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[genesis09]

Expected unemployment for new grads in 2020 is not 20%. You are citing one simplistic paper and even it said it might be but they have no idea what it will actually be. They didn't adjust for anything and just divided. More than likely, there will be an increase in the retirement rate or FTEs as the baby boomer pharmacists start to leave full-time status in great numbers. There are many factors at play when it comes to employment. No one knows what the employment rate will be in 2020 until 2020.

 

[a student]

You say you are a pharmacy student, can you tell me the nature by which chemokines recruit WBC's to site of infection? This is basic.

ding ding ding... times up.

on another note: Happy 2016 everyone!!!

I find this very amusing. Are you trying to prove that I am not in the field of pharmacy or I should be spending more time on studying?
The way you're trying to quiz me is pointless because the answer s something anyone can copy and paste off of wikipedia in a few seconds.

 

[torontopharm]

But PAs have a 30% growth?
Why should we average new stats with old stats?

How reliable is BLS data though? It also shows that Optometrists, another profession with lots of doom and gloom/question marks, have a 27% growth

 

[a student]

How reliable is BLS data though? It also shows that Optometrists, another profession with lots of doom and gloom/question marks, have a 27% growth

When bls used to say pharmacists had a faster than average growth rate, there were a lot of doom and gloomers discrediting it. I guess it goes both ways. But based on there spread sheet there will be a huge reduction of jobs in retail and a slight increase in mail order and online pharmacy. This is the main cause for decrease in growth. I wonder where they got the numbers from.

 

[Humble Sloth]

Expected unemployment for new grads in 2020 is not 20%. You are citing one simplistic paper and even it said it might be but they have no idea what it will actually be. They didn't adjust for anything and just divided. More than likely, there will be an increase in the retirement rate or FTEs as the baby boomer pharmacists start to leave full-time status in great numbers. There are many factors at play when it comes to employment. No one knows what the employment rate will be in 2020 until 2020.

I agree with "they have no idea what it will actually be". I personally think the employment rate for new grads will be a lot worse, around 50%. Although central fill and robots are still not taking significant jobs, mail order pharmacy is doing extremely well and a lot of new obamacareish plans require patients to get their medicine from a mail order pharmacy because they are cost conscience.

"The supply of pharmacists is projected to increase by 35 percent between 2012 and 2025 (Exhibit 1), reflecting growth over the past decade in the annual number of new pharmacists trained. Demand for pharmacists, which is determined by the number of prescriptions filled, is projected to grow by 3 percent."

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do the math here. More workers less jobs means less pay and more competition.

 

[Humble Sloth]

How reliable is BLS data though? It also shows that Optometrists, another profession with lots of doom and gloom/question marks, have a 27% growth

No optomitrists are acutally okay beacuse they didn't allow a **** ton of new schools to be produced. There are only 21 optometry schools (at least 130 pharmacy schools) and all optometry schools require physics and the OAT has heavy physics on it. This will keep the masses at bay unlike a pharmD which is becoming a dime a dozen. There are literally around 30 pharmD degree mills pumping out new grads, some don't even require a PCAT just an ability to respond to "sign here please".

 

[LabrattoRx]

I find this very amusing. Are you trying to prove that I am not in the field of pharmacy or I should be spending more time on studying?
The way you're trying to quiz me is pointless because the answer s something anyone can copy and paste off of wikipedia in a few seconds.

You couldn't formulate an answer off the top of your head? Is this your answer?

Optometrists have their own problems, lasik, improvements with PRK, and the fact that some people don't want to be an optometrist, hence only 21 schools.....

 

[LabrattoRx]

the majority of americans I think, won't want to pursue mail order, or compounding for that matter.

I do agree that mail order does have a niche and a population base, but to think that these facets will outplace traditional retail is batty.

The same logic is comparable to blue tooth replacing wires, and wired headphones. the sound quality is better, resistance to change etc.....people will always prefer wires to wireless

I'd like to ask that you keep an open mind and let God in your life. Pray for a better you in 2016. Peace be with you and God bless.

 

[LabrattoRx]

What is ya'lls problem??? are you guys poor (hmmmmm not likely).... are you really that fat? ding ding ding!!!! winner winner chickennnnnn DINNER!!!!

If you can't seem to sizzle out the fat during your new years resolution, I'd recommend a combination of the hcg diet and coolsculpting.

 

[Humble Sloth]

You couldn't formulate an answer off the top of your head? Is this your answer?

Optometrists have their own problems, lasik, improvements with PRK, and the fact that some people don't want to be an optometrist, hence only 21 schools.....

It's not that people don't wanna be an optometrist. It's that they are not intelligent enough to take Physics I and Physics II and also do well on the non-trival Physics section of the OAT. Physics is much harder than Oraganic Chem or any prereq. that pre-pharmers have to take. Also the money is less on average so that is a factor as well.

 

[LabrattoRx]

What? Physics was a breeze. The circuits, once you add the diagonal and the 4th or 5th circuit and cover the entire square, is the only time physics gets difficult. If you told me to teach one science class to a group of 16 year olds, it would be physics.

People teach physics in HS, likewise ochem is in college only.

 

[LabrattoRx]

the math on pcat is difficult

 

[Humble Sloth]

the math on pcat is difficult

PCAT is a joke. I didn't even study and got above a 90 on the composite. The math on the PCAT isn't even calculus based which is embarrassing. It only goes up to a 7th grade math level. Some schools don't even require the PCAT. All optometry schools require a 4 year degree. Most pharmacy schools don't. The barriers to entry for pharmacy in terms of intelligence are just, much lower and that is why there is such a demand to get the easy money. Eventually this equilibrium will balance out with probably around 30% of all pharmacists out of work and a lowered expected salary to ~75,000 USD (but hopefully that won't be for another decade).

Physics is much, much harder than organic chemistry for most people. Try learing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_flux . Kinematics is not easy nor is the later more advanced physics with lasers and prisms.

 

[LabrattoRx]

What? As long as you have a concept on vectors, rate of change, and summation of equations how are you not able to comprehend flux??? Are you scared of the little symbol for flux???

Most people fare poorly in comparison to the other subjects on the pcat math. That's just the nature of it. I don't believe the PCAT is easier than the OAT. The DAT and MCAT? yes, but not oat, and definitely harder than GRE since there is more endurance.

If organic chemistry is much easier, can you answer the question I posed earlier, as to how the nature by which chemokines recruit WBC's to site of infection? I am giving you a second chance.

 

[Humble Sloth]

What? As long as you have a concept on vectors, rate of change, and summation of equations how are you not able to comprehend flux??? Are you scared of the little symbol for flux???

Most people fare poorly in comparison to the other subjects on the pcat math. That's just the nature of it. I don't believe the PCAT is easier than the OAT. The DAT and MCAT? yes, but not oat, and definitely harder than GRE since there is more endurance.

If organic chemistry is much easier, can you answer the question I posed earlier, as to how the nature by which chemokines recruit WBC's to site of infection? I am giving you a second chance.

It's pretty clear you are still a child. One day you will grow up and learn the ways of the adult world. Good luck!

 

[a student]

You couldn't formulate an answer off the top of your head? Is this your answer?

Optometrists have their own problems, lasik, improvements with PRK, and the fact that some people don't want to be an optometrist, hence only 21 schools.....

I couldn't answer your question because I wasn't sure what you were asking. What does the "nature" mean? Like explain the whole process? And please don't time me this time, I'm at my APPE site and I don't know when I will have time to come back next.

 

[LabrattoRx]

Ding Ding Ding, wrong again.

Sad since I gave you everything you needed, since it was clear that you choose to exogesize my posts with the utmost scrutiny.

The answer is based on the chemical nature exhibited by amino acid residues, and the electric pi orbitals they create. In clearer terms, this "electric field" as you so are obsessed with, creates an "organic" chemical enviroment (think organic chemistry....duhhhhhhhhhhhh) thereby attracting WBC by a basis of charge and quantum sensing..

I handed you guys the anwer on a silver platter, and you still couldn't deliver. Therefore, I will take what you have said on the job market of pharmacists, with a very small grain of salt.

 

[LabrattoRx]

Perhaps you should teach typewriter maintenance at the Rocco Globbo School for Women. Good day sir!

Thank you for your correspondence.

 

[a student]

It's pretty clear you are still a child. One day you will grow up and learn the ways of the adult world. Good luck!

Exactly my thought. Sounds like a cocky first year student in some sort of healthcare field...

 

[torontopharm]

What? As long as you have a concept on vectors, rate of change, and summation of equations how are you not able to comprehend flux??? Are you scared of the little symbol for flux???
Most people fare poorly in comparison to the other subjects on the pcat math. That's just the nature of it. I don't believe the PCAT is easier than the OAT. The DAT and MCAT? yes, but not oat, and definitely harder than GRE since there is more endurance.
If organic chemistry is much easier, can you answer the question I posed earlier, as to how the nature by which chemokines recruit WBC's to site of infection? I am giving you a second chance.

OAT is made by the same test writers as the DAT. The only major difference is the Physics in OAT instead of PAT.
I haven't taken the DAT or the OAT, but if i had to guess, i'd assume OAT wouldn't be that different from the DAT.

 

[LabrattoRx]

OAT is made by the same test writers as the DAT. The only major difference is the Physics in OAT instead of PAT.
I haven't taken the DAT or the OAT, but if i had to guess, i'd assume OAT wouldn't be that different from the DAT.

Kaplan instructors teach DAT and PCAT simultaneously so by your logic, I cannot fully agree with you. Thank you for your comments.

 

[torontopharm]

It's not that people don't wanna be an optometrist. It's that they are not intelligent enough to take Physics I and Physics II and also do well on the non-trival Physics section of the OAT. Physics is much harder than Oraganic Chem or any prereq. that pre-pharmers have to take. Also the money is less on average so that is a factor as well.

Also, not everyone wants to take at least 4 semesters of Optics and take a board exam that has 2nd/3rd order Optics questions.

 

[PharmtoCS]

This isn't news. The expected unemployment for new pharmacy grads is 20% in 2020. Luckily my four year engineering degree is "Job Outlook, 2014-24 1% (Little or no change)" so 3% is triple the job growth and is a feast for me. I feel bad for all the non-super hungry people in pharmacy school looking for an easy, rewarding or stable job because that doesn't exist in this field. This field is about straight greed and only the greediest will survive.

Should have done software engineering instead
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm

 

[Humble Sloth]

Should have done software engineering instead
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm

According to your source, PA, NP, optometrist, RN and dentists are all growing fields. Pharmacy is literally one of the only healthcare fields projected to shrink in the coming year. IMO thisk is because 1. it's a super easy field and 2. pharmacists don't actually provide any real billable services to patients unlike these other heath care providers. Anything a pharmacist tells a patient can be looked up on the internet in seconds. A pharmacist main role is that of a glorified bank teller, dispensing opiates. Bank tellers make 25k a year so pharmacist should make around 50k. year http://www.bls.gov/ooh/office-and-administrative-support/tellers.htm

 

[trailerpark]

According to your source, PA, NP, optometrist, RN and dentists are all growing fields. Pharmacy is literally one of the only healthcare fields projected to shrink in the coming year. IMO thisk is because 1. it's a super easy field and 2. pharmacists don't actually provide any real billable services to patients unlike these other heath care providers. Anything a pharmacist tells a patient can be looked up on the internet in seconds. A pharmacist main role is that of a glorified bank teller, dispensing opiates. Bank tellers make 25k a year so pharmacist should make around 50k. year http://www.bls.gov/ooh/office-and-administrative-support/tellers.htm

Well Walmart better keep paying me 130k (what I made this year as a brand new pharmacist) until my loans are paid off before shrinking my salary.

 

[Humble Sloth]

Well Walmart better keep paying me 130k (what I made this year as a brand new pharmacist) until my loans are paid off before shrinking my salary.

Congrats on the Walmart job! They give you a 30 min lunch/**** break at Walmart. 130k seems really high. Is it a walmart located in a rural area? What should I be doing now to get a job at Walmart in the NYC metro area? GPA, Extracurricular, learning their software, working at health-related non-profits, trying to stalk and network walmart directors/pharmacists, going to every walmart store and asking the pharmacist working if anyone is retiring or moving soon, doing all my IPPEs and APPEs at walmart, ect?

 

[wagrxm2000]

According to your source, PA, NP, optometrist, RN and dentists are all growing fields. Pharmacy is literally one of the only healthcare fields projected to shrink in the coming year. IMO thisk is because 1. it's a super easy field and 2. pharmacists don't actually provide any real billable services to patients unlike these other heath care providers. Anything a pharmacist tells a patient can be looked up on the internet in seconds. A pharmacist main role is that of a glorified bank teller, dispensing opiates. Bank tellers make 25k a year so pharmacist should make around 50k. year http://www.bls.gov/ooh/office-and-administrative-support/tellers.htm

Um any job can be looked up. I could be a family doctor right now.

 

[rxdawg21]

My base salary at walmart was 125k after being out < 1 year. Pulled in 141k from just a few extra shifts.

 

[drdamon]

I'm looking at all these posts, and I notice the common theme that pharmacy is horrible and you'll regret it for life. I'm just a junior, so I have time. Should I just skip out on pharmacy and work towards medical school and become a physician? It seems like everyone hates their job. :/

 

[tongiecc]

Ding Ding Ding, wrong again.

Sad since I gave you everything you needed, since it was clear that you choose to exogesize my posts with the utmost scrutiny.

The answer is based on the chemical nature exhibited by amino acid residues, and the electric pi orbitals they create. In clearer terms, this "electric field" as you so are obsessed with, creates an "organic" chemical enviroment (think organic chemistry....duhhhhhhhhhhhh) thereby attracting WBC by a basis of charge and quantum sensing..

I handed you guys the anwer on a silver platter, and you still couldn't deliver. Therefore, I will take what you have said on the job market of pharmacists, with a very small grain of salt.

I know this is a dead post/poster banned, but isn't this called "quorum" sensing....not QUANTUM, as in quantum physics (maybe where he was confused in the nomenclature) or quantum leap (LOL). I believe recurrent admin of Azithromycin is said to disrupt quorum sensing communicative activities in Pseudomonas, etc biofilms. Anyways...just being a nerd and thought I might be cool to pass along something about that that related to pharmacy, and BTW this troll was kinda funny

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

I'm looking at all these posts, and I notice the common theme that pharmacy is horrible and you'll regret it for life. I'm just a junior, so I have time. Should I just skip out on pharmacy and work towards medical school and become a physician? It seems like everyone hates their job. :/

Yes! If people think things are bad now, just wait until what the next few years will bring. I wish I would have done something besides become a pharmacist. It's like walking on egg shells now.

 

[drdamon]

Yes! If people think things are bad now, just wait until what the next few years will bring. I wish I would have done something besides become a pharmacist. It's like walking on egg shells now.

Thank you for the response, I'll probably start looking into pre-med and becoming a physician. It's always good to have this sort of insight in something so important. Again, thank you.

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

Thank you for the response, I'll probably start looking into pre-med and becoming a physician. It's always good to have this sort of insight in something so important. Again, thank you.

I truly wish I could have known it would get this bad.. There were still sign on bonuses and articles about ''no end of pharmacist shortage in sight'' when I was doing pre-pharmacy and started pharmacy school. Now it's changed a lot. I could have been a physician now if I had chosen med school. Now I'm in my thirties, too late now.

 

[Humble Sloth]

I'm looking at all these posts, and I notice the common theme that pharmacy is horrible and you'll regret it for life. I'm just a junior, so I have time. Should I just skip out on pharmacy and work towards medical school and become a physician? It seems like everyone hates their job. :/

You can still make money doing pharmacy if you are lucky enough to get a job. A lot of pharmD's go onto medical school because they realize the truth to pharmacy (hyper saturation, low barriers to entry, poor working conditions, stress ect).

 

[Humble Sloth]

I truly wish I could have known it would get this bad.. There were still sign on bonuses and articles about ''no end of pharmacist shortage in sight'' when I was doing pre-pharmacy and started pharmacy school. Now it's changed a lot. I could have been a physician now if I had chosen med school. Now I'm in my thirties, too late now.

30's isn't too old for med school. Do it now or you will regret it the rest of your life

 

[Rukn]

I truly wish I could have known it would get this bad.. There were still sign on bonuses and articles about ''no end of pharmacist shortage in sight'' when I was doing pre-pharmacy and started pharmacy school. Now it's changed a lot. I could have been a physician now if I had chosen med school. Now I'm in my thirties, too late now.

Similar story here

When I was pre pharmacy I didn't hear anything about saturation. Heard about it after I got accepted and then every year the news got worst and worst and now here I am as a licensed RPh. I might honestly go back to do something else. I'm 25 so hopefully not too old. I was too naïve too act then, maybe I should get out now before it's too late.

 

[Digsbe]

I started school in 2008 and got all the info prior to the economy crash on how pharmacy is a fantastic field. I loved science and wanted to go into healthcare so I did pre-pharm work and will graduate pharmacy school this year.

My friends who graduated last year got jobs/are in residency and those with jobs seem to be doing ok. I guess so long as you find a job you should be good. I'm hoping I'll be able to find one in an at least decent area which seems possible since I'm willing to relocate. I'm hoping maybe something will happen with provider status or laws regarding insurance reimbursement (as has been done in some states) to give somewhat of a little kick to the profession.

 

[Humble Sloth]

I started school in 2008 and got all the info prior to the economy crash on how pharmacy is a fantastic field. I loved science and wanted to go into healthcare so I did pre-pharm work and will graduate pharmacy school this year.

My friends who graduated last year got jobs/are in residency and those with jobs seem to be doing ok. I guess so long as you find a job you should be good. I'm hoping I'll be able to find one in an at least decent area which seems possible since I'm willing to relocate. I'm hoping maybe something will happen with provider status or laws regarding insurance reimbursement (as has been done in some states) to give somewhat of a little kick to the profession.

As long as you are willing to relocate anywhere in the US I don't think you will have trouble finding a job until around 2020 when the supply outpaces demand so much that there will not be jobs available even in rural Idaho.

 

[Digsbe]

As long as you are willing to relocate anywhere in the US I don't think you will have trouble finding a job until around 2020 when the supply outpaces demand so much that there will not be jobs available even in rural Idaho.

I'm hoping to live in a decent urban area, but I'll relocate there. Heck I've considered moving to Cleveland, it seems there are job openings there and housing is dirt cheap.

 

[radio frequency]

I started school in 2008 and got all the info prior to the economy crash on how pharmacy is a fantastic field. I loved science and wanted to go into healthcare so I did pre-pharm work and will graduate pharmacy school this year.

My friends who graduated last year got jobs/are in residency and those with jobs seem to be doing ok. I guess so long as you find a job you should be good. I'm hoping I'll be able to find one in an at least decent area which seems possible since I'm willing to relocate. I'm hoping maybe something will happen with provider status or laws regarding insurance reimbursement (as has been done in some states) to give somewhat of a little kick to the profession.

I started pre-pharm at the same time and graduated last year, and even I knew getting a job might be a crapshoot...a bubble doesn't last forever. There were already signs things were going downhill when I started school. I'm sure you'll get something decent, but not everyone will. International students without visas need to be especially careful as so few companies are now willing to sponsor them.

 

[Humble Sloth]

I'm hoping to live in a decent urban area, but I'll relocate there. Heck I've considered moving to Cleveland, it seems there are job openings there and housing is dirt cheap.

Cleveland was rated the 6th most dangerous city in the US.
It has significant lake effect snow
The city is severely economically depressed
(http://www.businessinsider.com/most-dangerous-cities-in-america-2013-6?op=1)

Even with those facts it may be difficult getting a pharmD job in Cleveland in all but the poorest and most dangerous pharmacies.

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

Similar story here

When I was pre pharmacy I didn't hear anything about saturation. Heard about it after I got accepted and then every year the news got worst and worst and now here I am as a licensed RPh. I might honestly go back to do something else. I'm 25 so hopefully not too old. I was too naïve too act then, maybe I should get out now before it's too late.

I think PA school is a good option. 2 years of school and you'd be in demand having a PharmD in addition to being a PA. I'm betting soon PAs will make more than pharmacists. Software engineering is also a fantastic option. 6 figures, office job and sometimes work from home. Don't have to deal with the nasty public too. Seriously I don't see how anyone thinks going to pharmacy school is a good idea anymore. You really won't make much after student loans and the dismal job outlook is terrifying.

 

[Humble Sloth]

I think PA school is a good option. 2 years of school and you'd be in demand having a PharmD in addition to being a PA. I'm betting soon PAs will make more than pharmacists. Software engineering is also a fantastic option. 6 figures, office job and sometimes work from home. Don't have to deal with the nasty public too. Seriously I don't see how anyone thinks going to pharmacy school is a good idea anymore. You really won't make much after student loans and the dismal job outlook is terrifying.

If you think the job market is bad now, wait five years when the full effect of 40+ pharmacy schools starts to really take effect. There will be 20% + unemployment for pharmacists. Hopefully you live in a state that has good unemployment compensation.

 

[EyeTeeFarmer]

If you think the job market is bad now, wait five years when the full effect of 40+ pharmacy schools starts to really take effect. There will be 20% + unemployment for pharmacists. Hopefully you live in a state that has good unemployment compensation.

This. Especially 3 year Pharm.D programs. For every 4 years, they basically graduate an additional class. At least JDs have tier systems.

 

[a student]

This. Especially 3 year Pharm.D programs. For every 4 years, they basically graduate an additional class. At least JDs have tier systems.

They graduate one class per year just like the four year programs...

 

[owlegrad]

This. Especially 3 year Pharm.D programs. For every 4 years, they basically graduate an additional class. At least JDs have tier systems.

Math is hard.

 

[Humble Sloth]

They graduate one class per year just like the four year programs...

Yes but the pharmacists they graduate will be a year younger on average which means another year of them saturating a pharmacist position.

 

[Humble Sloth]

This. Especially 3 year Pharm.D programs. For every 4 years, they basically graduate an additional class. At least JDs have tier systems.

As the pharmacist job markets evolves i think at least two things will happen.
-effective pay rate for pharmacists will decrease as more pharmacists become part time floaters 50 USD/hour at 30 hours a week is 80k a year roughly

-a tier system for school rankings will begin to materialize similar to the law school system

 

[EyeTeeFarmer]

They graduate one class per year just like the four year programs...

You're right, my off the cuff thinking was way off. It's a difference of one class from year 4 to year infinity since students are continuously matriculated.