Physician debt

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

commymommy

*reformed commymommy*
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2000
Messages
2,577
Reaction score
2
With all of the discussion about "is it worth it"? I thought I'd post an interesting article:

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2000/12_00/editorial_dec.htm

Many graduating medical students and residents must feel as if they are caught in a similar predicament: After years of academic toil, they graduate only to find they must work longer and harder than they anticipated to achieve freedom from educational loans. Unfortunately, a high debt load isn't the most dramatic disappointment today's graduates face. Because of changes within the medical profession over the past several years, physicians face an increased mountain of paperwork, more demands from regulatory agencies and third-party payors, diminished reimbursement, and--most disappointing--less time to spend with patients. The satisfaction that was once so inherent in our profession appears to be increasingly fleeting. It is little wonder that many graduates are dismayed to find that life after residency is not everything they expected.

It appears that Jacob was willing to work twice as long as he originally expected because he felt the ends justified the means. However, it is difficult for many young physicians to work longer and harder to repay educational loans once they realize that the actual practice of medicine is not what they anticipated. Their unrealized dreams, coupled with unpaid bills, can result in professional disillusionment and frustration.

Staggering debt loads
The actual debt load many of our young colleagues face can be staggering. About 65% of students in both public and private medical schools are in the red by at least $50,000 when they graduate, according to the 1999 medical school graduation questionnaire sponsored by the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) (1) (table 1). The report found that only 16% of medical school seniors managed to graduate without debt in 1999. The remainder of their classmates weren't so lucky; these students owed, on average, $90,745 in educational debts. This is roughly 6% more than the average indebtedness claimed by survey respondents just 1 year earlier. On the high end, 12% of the students surveyed in 1999 were $150,000 or more in the red. (Things aren't looking too good for the class of 2000, either. The AAMC's latest data indicate that students who carry educational loans owe an average of $94,901.)

Table 1. Total educational debt of medical school students at graduation, 1999
Debt load* % of graduates**
None 16.1
$1-$24,999 5.9
$25,000-$49,999 10.9
$50,000-$74,999 14.3
$75,000-$99,999 19.1
$100,000-$124,999 15.2
$125,000-$149,999 6.8
$150,000 or more 11.7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Average total educational debt of all indebted graduates: $90,745.

**Total responses: 12,468.

Data from Association of American Medical Colleges (1).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Compared with the past, today's lending environment is relatively favorable, the AAMC points out. Interest rates are low, the borrowing process is simpler, dollars are more readily available and, once completed, online loan applications often carry over from one year to the next. Most students who carry loans accept them as an inevitable part of the educational process. Perhaps this mirrors our society's current general acceptance of borrowing and debt as a way of life.

But for a young physician, high loan payments can be like an additional home mortgage. Payback can take 10 to 30 years, and depending on the plan, reimbursement can easily total from about 175% to 300% of the initial loan.

Show me the money!
How do future medical school graduates expect to manage their loan repayment obligations? A 1999 survey of 300 senior residents in family practice, internal medicine, and pediatrics (2) found that 40% expected to earn between $101,000 and $125,000 in their first year of practice. Another 26% expected to earn $126,000 to $150,000, and 22% said they expected to earn more than $151,000 in their first year. These salary expectations were much higher than those expressed by respondents in previous years and, more important, are higher than what is realistic according to study findings.

Without the counterbalance of professional satisfaction, high debt load can disproportionately influence which career path a graduate takes. Most physicians who are not in primary care still receive higher starting salaries than internists, family physicians, and pediatricians. A graduate who owes $150,000 is almost certain to have that debt load in mind when choosing a specialty and deciding whether to accept a fellowship, where to practice geographically, and whether to care for the underserved in a rural or inner-city setting. Loan payments can look far more feasible, depending on the circumstances being considered.

Disconnectedness among the ranks
How many of us who have practiced medicine for 20 or more years can say that we truly relate to the circumstances facing medical school graduates in 2000? When we left medical school, we had far less debt--if any--and entered a job market in which options were numerous and varied. We had only to name our specialty and we had multiple job offers. Since then, however, the average educational debt load of medical school graduates has risen steadily (table 2).

Table 2. Educational indebtedness of medical school graduates
Year Average debt of indebted graduates
1985 $29,943
1986 $33,499
1987 $35,621
1988 $38,489
1989 $42,374
1990 $46,220
1991 Not available
1992 $55,859
1993 $59,885
1994 $63,434
1995 $69,059
1996 $75,103
1997 $80,462
1998 $85,170
1999 $90,745

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Data from The AAMC data book: statistical information related to medical schools and teaching hospitals. Washington, DC: AAMC, 2000:48


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



On the other hand, medical school graduates in 2000 seem to view money and work differently than earlier graduates. For example, years ago on-call duty every two or three nights was an inevitable, expected, and mostly uncompensated professional service for a new doctor. It was one of the best ways to meet new patients and build a practice. Today, many contracts define "call duty" and limit it to several nights a month. Extra call duty warrants extra money. This close connection between call duty and dollars is understandable and perhaps appropriate, but it also can change the implicit "contract" between patients and primary care physicians.

During residency training an additional "double jeopardy" may strike: Student loans become due, and the classic "delayed gratification syndrome" may seize both the new physician and his or her family. The desire to finally purchase a new house, start a family, or get a new car leads to an even greater debt burden.

It is little wonder that new physicians pay such close attention to the business and financial aspects of medicine. Debt payments stretch out ahead of them, and money management is a daily concern. It was far different for graduates of years ago, who believed the general tenet that if you worked hard and took good care of your patients and practice, you would do well financially.

What does it all mean for our profession?
First, I don't really know. The practice of medicine appears to be changing faster than the medical community can assimilate the changes. To achieve professional satisfaction, physicians must increasingly seek rewards that are broader and greater than personal financial security and a respected position in society. How do we share these perspectives with today's medical students? How do we prepare them for the realities they will face upon finishing school? Are there ways to achieve balance between one's professional educational costs and personal financial needs?

Those of us who are able need to invest in the upcoming generation of young physicians by helping them manage their debt load. We can do this by, for example, giving gifts to our medical school alumni foundation, supporting professional group subsidies (not loans) for students committed to serving the disadvantaged, or contributing to community efforts that offer debt repayment in return for service.

In addition to helping graduates manage their debts, we can help them manage their expectations. We can act as mentors and help them put the changing face of medicine in perspective. We can listen to them. When they complain about living under a cloud of debt, are they actually asking to be affirmed and validated in a world of uncertainty? We can assure them that the practice of medicine is indeed worthwhile and that caring relationships with patients remain a key source of renewal for the primary care physician.

Members don't see this ad.
 
nice citation! ;) hey, i was wondering what the 16% of students do that allows them to graduate debt free?
 
Originally posted by fun8stuff
nice citation! ;) hey, i was wondering what the 16% of students do that allows them to graduate debt free?

Your best shot would be to be born an URM.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
School debt is no trivial issue. However, I still think medicine is still worth it because:

1) Few vocations allow you to be intimately involved in other's lives. This is an awesome privilege. There is no other alternative if you enjoy working with patients at this level of human interaction.

2) Medicine pays well in comparison to other vocations on average.

3) With average salaries around $150K, a school debt of $100K can be easily paid off over a 10, 15, or 30 year payment option (e.g., for instance, $100K debt, with 4.5% interest, with a 10 year payment option requires about ~$900/month... take home pay for $150K salary is about $7500-$8500 net take home --- depending on your tax liabilities).

4) While other professions suffer from economic down turns, medicine is more sheltered and physicians remain employed. This is why there is now an increase in business majors and others applying to medical school.

5) Few careers will provide a salary above $100K after completing training while medicine does.

6) If you make more than $126K/year, then you're in the top 5% of incomes in the US. If you can't pay off your loans with this amount of income, then you need to take finance courses or read the "Millionare Next Door'. If you don't like debt, then join the military or health corps. Obviously there aren't people flooding to the military and health corps programs. Why? Because medical graduates are making good money, paying off their school loans, and living well. Very few physicians file bankruptcy.

7) No pain... no gain.

Good luck!
 
Consider this....

About 2/3 of the graduating law school class from Iowa this year could not find employment. After all the schooling and debt, many are jobless. Law graduates can't find jobs any where in the US.

You will never see 2/3 or even 1/10 of a graduating medical school class without a job. We all find jobs. You may have to move, but at least there is someone who will hire you.
 
Originally posted by Ernham
Your best shot would be to be born an URM.

lol... no kidding... arg! anyone ever think of lying and saying that they are a URM? You could just get a really good tan the month or so before the interview.... lol...
 
Originally posted by Ophtho_MudPhud
Consider this....

About 2/3 of the graduating law school class from Iowa this year could not find employment. After all the schooling and debt, many are jobless. Law graduates can't find jobs any where in the US.

You will never see 2/3 or even 1/10 of a graduating medical school class without a job. We all find jobs. You may have to move, but at least there is someone who will hire you.

Both posts very well put! :clap: May I ask where you got the info on Iowa law grads? Do you have a link? Thanks.
 
Well...(egads, I feel the flamers on their way to this post...I sense it turning into another AA fiasco :rolleyes: ) They did do a movie about that several years ago where a white guy applies to harvard and gets a scholarship as an URM..and then takes these tanning pills to keep his skin dark...I'll look up the title and post it.

Most people that I know that are debt-free do a military payback or go to school on a rural medicine debt payback promise.....;) I've met many URMs with the same debt as everyone else.

kris
 
Originally posted by mommd2b
Well...(egads, I feel the flamers on their way to this post...I sense it turning into another AA fiasco :rolleyes: ) They did do a movie about that several years ago where a white guy applies to harvard and gets a scholarship as an URM..and then takes these tanning pills to keep his skin dark...I'll look up the title and post it.

Most people that I know that are debt-free do a military payback or go to school on a rural medicine debt payback promise.....;) I've met many URMs with the same debt as everyone else.

kris

everything lately has been turning into AA bashing... lol... of course, i'm partially to blaim....

i never knew that there was a movie about that... i guess that probably rules out doing it...
 
Originally posted by mommd2b
Well...(egads, I feel the flamers on their way to this post...I sense it turning into another AA fiasco :rolleyes: ) They did do a movie about that several years ago where a white guy applies to harvard and gets a scholarship as an URM..and then takes these tanning pills to keep his skin dark...I'll look up the title and post it.

Most people that I know that are debt-free do a military payback or go to school on a rural medicine debt payback promise.....;) I've met many URMs with the same debt as everyone else.

kris

The movie was "Soulman", and it had James Earl Jones and Julia Louis Dreyfus...

Also, I'm curious where some posters here got their generalizations about URMs not having any debt. Where have you seen all this free money being given away to URMs? FA is mostly need-based.
 
I don't quite believe the 33% of IA law having jobs. Iowa is a borderline top-20 law school and US News cites a 83% placement rate at graduation and 99% after 6 months for the class of 2001. 2001 was much stronger than this year, but was still the tip of the downturn. Of course, my school's business placement rate dropped from 97% in 1999 to 31% in 2003, so I can believe it.

None of you have any idea just how hard it is to make even $100K in any other career. You will be fine on your loans. A MD is a guaranteed job. That, along with a DDS, PharmD, RN, NP, and PA are about all that is left in that category anymore.

Try to pay off 50 grand in loans on a 10 dollar an hour salary like most of the class of 2002 and 2003 are trying to do. That sucks. Your loans will be a minor inconvenience.
 
Originally posted by fun8stuff
Both posts very well put! :clap: May I ask where you got the info on Iowa law grads? Do you have a link? Thanks.

I don't have a link, but one of my friends graduated this year. He said about 2/3 of his Iowa class did not find jobs.

Although my friend found a job, he said his job was secure for about a year. :(

It's a tough job market.
 
Originally posted by Ernham
Your best shot would be to be born an URM.

You guys are so racist its not even funny. I bet neither of you know of a URM med-student who is on a free ride.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Originally posted by fun8stuff
everything lately has been turning into AA bashing... lol... of course, i'm partially to blaim....

i never knew that there was a movie about that... i guess that probably rules out doing it...

Its not even about AA bashing, its about your racist beliefs and opinions that you choose to express here on sdn because you can remain anonymous. You should express your opinions at your med school or in residency, I think you will have more opportunity for change there. Dont be a coward, speak up, take action..
 
Originally posted by fun8stuff
nice citation! ;) hey, i was wondering what the 16% of students do that allows them to graduate debt free?

Fun8stuff, you are an IDIOT. MDPhd's are on a free ride throughout med-school. They make up part of the 16%. Also, some students are so smart that they get a free ride, I guess you would not have known that, sorry. Most URM's pay their way through school.
 
The medical school in my area offers 7-8 full scholarships that are ONLY available to african americans.
 
Your best shot would be to be born an URM.


No, your best shot would be to go either into a military program or get a service based scholarship. There are many agencies that will give you a complete scholarship if you commit to serving in an underserved area.
 
I guarantee that most of the people without any debt when they graduate had parents who paid their way through school.
 
Originally posted by Pedonc
The medical school in my area offers 7-8 full scholarships that are ONLY available to african americans.
not true, which medical school is that?
 
I completely agree about parents shelling out the cash. I moved from the Midwest to the East Coast for a grad program and I can't believe how many trust-fund babies are out here. It's unbelievable. People stare at me in shock when I tell them I supported myself through undergrad and grad. Unfortunately, I'm on my own for med tuition also. (If I get there, that is). I get more jealous about this than about AA...
 
MedguyNYC,

The school is the University of MS.
Here is an excerpt from an article about the scholarships that appeared in the Clarion Ledger, the top newspaper of Jackson, MS (the article can be found at clarionledger.com:

These "full-ticket" scholarships are worth approximately $23,000 for each year of medical school. The scholarships were made possible by a $2 million gift from James and Sally Barksdale to encourage highly qualified African-American medical students to stay in Mississippi for their medical training. Each of the scholarships is named for one of the Barksdale brothers who are physicians: Dr. Bryan Barksdale and Dr. Don Mitchell of Jackson and Dr. Fred McDonnell of Hazlehurst.He said Mississippi needs African-American physicians to help boost the health status of African-Americans in Mississippi.

These scholarships represent just one example of financial aid available for students at Mississippi's only academic health sciences center. To find out more, call the Division of Student Services and Records at (601) 984-1080.


Another program at UMC that is available on a "first come, first served" basis to either 20 or 25 students is one in which you receive a full tuition scholarship from the state if you agree to practice in MS for 5 years after med school. If you sign up for the scholarship and end up leaving the state, you immediately have to pay it all back with interest.
 
Here's a question that relates...

I attend undergrad at a school that is out of state for me. It's also where I want to go to medical school. Problem is, it only offers 3 seats for out of staters, and instead of paying $40K in-state, out of state students pay $100K over four years. Should I take a year off between undergrad and med school to establish residency in my school's state so that I can keep from paying the steep fees???
 
YES. Take a year off, work, travel, establish residency. Think of the 15 or 20 years of loan repayments that will be substantially less. Make sure you read the fine print about the residency requirements, though. Don't overlook something like voter registration that may make you inelegible.
 
Originally posted by Pedonc
TAnother program at UMC that is available on a "first come, first served" basis to either 20 or 25 students is one in which you receive a full tuition scholarship from the state

Pedonc - are you a UMC student? (or did you grad from there?)

My brother graduated from there 2 years ago and was lucky enough to get the Sumner grant (full paid tuition + fees/supplies/books + living stipend).

Once I get closer to finishing undergrad I think I'll try to move to one of the Sumner counties! :laugh:
 
Originally posted by louren
YES. Take a year off, work, travel, establish residency. Think of the 15 or 20 years of loan repayments that will be substantially less. Make sure you read the fine print about the residency requirements, though. Don't overlook something like voter registration that may make you inelegible.

Yeah, I have looked into all that because I had hoped I could establish residency during my last semester. But WV law does not allow residency to change while enrolled in college courses.

Anyone else have any thoughts???
 
Med school debt is not that big of a deal.

Lets say you are 150k in debt, and after residency you start out at 90k per year (primary care).

You can easily live on 70k of that in most areas of the country (probably 95%), and use the other 20k to pay off loans, which would only take you 8 years.

For specialists, they may start at something like 175k, live off 100k and pay 75k per year for loans.

Anybody who cant pay off their loans within 10 years after finishing residency doesnt know how to manage their money and/or spends beyond their means.
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
Med school debt is not that big of a deal.

Lets say you are 150k in debt, and after residency you start out at 90k per year (primary care).

You can easily live on 70k of that in most areas of the country (probably 95%), and use the other 20k to pay off loans, which would only take you 8 years.

For specialists, they may start at something like 175k, live off 100k and pay 75k per year for loans.

Anybody who cant pay off their loans within 10 years after finishing residency doesnt know how to manage their money and/or spends beyond their means.

Just a little too simplified.

Primary care starts at 90K. So then half of that essentially will be taken by taxes. That leaves you with 45K. Once you factor in living expenses for you and probably a family, car payments, and recreation, you will in no way have 20K a year to pay off your debt. You also aren't considering paying into a retirement plan, saving money to start your own practice, investing, etc. etc.

There is a huge difference between being 40K in debt and 100K in debt. That's one of the many reasons I'm wanting to change residency.
 
Originally posted by Pedonc
MedguyNYC,

The school is the University of MS.
Here is an excerpt from an article about the scholarships that appeared in the Clarion Ledger, the top newspaper of Jackson, MS (the article can be found at clarionledger.com:

These "full-ticket" scholarships are worth approximately $23,000 for each year of medical school. The scholarships were made possible by a $2 million gift from James and Sally Barksdale to encourage highly qualified African-American medical students to stay in Mississippi for their medical training. Each of the scholarships is named for one of the Barksdale brothers who are physicians: Dr. Bryan Barksdale and Dr. Don Mitchell of Jackson and Dr. Fred McDonnell of Hazlehurst.He said Mississippi needs African-American physicians to help boost the health status of African-Americans in Mississippi.

These scholarships represent just one example of financial aid available for students at Mississippi's only academic health sciences center. To find out more, call the Division of Student Services and Records at (601) 984-1080.


Another program at UMC that is available on a "first come, first served" basis to either 20 or 25 students is one in which you receive a full tuition scholarship from the state if you agree to practice in MS for 5 years after med school. If you sign up for the scholarship and end up leaving the state, you immediately have to pay it all back with interest.

Hey pedonc, you can get that "full ride" also if you elect to work in a medically underserved community as most AA physicians do in MS. Nothing is free. As the article states, they have to stay in MS after their residency. Every med-school has that option for a free education. If you want a free medical education just sign a contract for 4 years to work as a PC physician in an underserved area. STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICANS AND MED-SCHOOLS AND WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOUR OWN EDUCATION.
 
I find it interesting that one of the main thrusts of the article was that new MDs often do not fully realize the difficulty of paying off their debt load, and yet half the posts in response claim how easy it will be to pay off the debt . . .

Not to say that it can't be done (obviously it can), but I don't think everyone will necessarily find it to be a breeze.
 
I find it interesting that one of the main thrusts of the article was that new MDs often do not fully realize the difficulty of paying off their debt load, and yet several posts in response claim how easy it will be to pay off the debt . . .

Not to say that it can't be done (obviously it can), but I don't think everyone will necessarily find it to be a breeze.
 
Originally posted by TroutBum
I find it interesting that one of the main thrusts of the article was that new MDs often do not fully realize the difficulty of paying off their debt load, and yet half the posts in response claim how easy it will be to pay off the debt . . .

Not to say that it can't be done (obviously it can), but I don't think everyone will necessarily find it to be a breeze.

That IS interesting...instead of how the article looks at it in the past tense (as in doctors have now graduated and didn't realize how hard it would be to pay off)...we see it on the boards from a future tense...we think it's going to be easy to pay it off. In a few years ,we'll realize the article was right!
 
The MeowMix Plan For Debt-Free Living:
- wash dishes through high school
- work your way through college
- go to grad school somewhere where all accepted grad students get full support
- work hard and save money for 12 years
- sell your house to pay for med school
**Graduate Debt-Free!!**

I hope that those who are complaining about scholarships for URMs and other undeserving slackers will be eager to take this hardworking, all-American approach instead.
 
Originally posted by MeowMix
The MeowMix Plan For Debt-Free Living:
- wash dishes through high school
- work your way through college
- go to grad school somewhere where all accepted grad students get full support
- work hard and save money for 12 years
- sell your house to pay for med school
**Graduate Debt-Free!!**

I hope that those who are complaining about scholarships for URMs and other undeserving slackers will be eager to take this hardworking, all-American approach instead.

:rolleyes:

And I here I was, looking at schools that made me pay an arm and a leg. Why didn't anybody tell me to apply to any of the free med schools? That would've been so much easier. :laugh:
 
Originally posted by MedguyNYC
You guys are so racist its not even funny. I bet neither of you know of a URM med-student who is on a free ride.

rac?ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

I do not see how those were racist in any way, however, I am sorry if it came out that way. I actually just met one african-american woman who has pretty much a free ride and she told me herself that she thought it was mostly because of her race, although she had halfway decent stats as well... 30 MCAT, 3.8 gpa, some volunteer & some research. She gave me a tour of wayne state last april.
 
Originally posted by MedguyNYC
Its not even about AA bashing, its about your racist beliefs and opinions that you choose to express here on sdn because you can remain anonymous. You should express your opinions at your med school or in residency, I think you will have more opportunity for change there. Dont be a coward, speak up, take action..

I myself have spoken up at my school. Myself and about 7 others formed a current topics in medicine club at our university where we discuss these topics and have a weekly newsletter that is sent out around campus.

These are not racist beliefs at all. They are political beliefs. Perhaps you should try and understand what racism/ colorism is?

rac?ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
 
Originally posted by MedguyNYC
Fun8stuff, you are an IDIOT. MDPhd's are on a free ride throughout med-school. They make up part of the 16%. Also, some students are so smart that they get a free ride, I guess you would not have known that, sorry. Most URM's pay their way through school.

Do you use derogatory comments because of the frusteration of not having enough intelligence to argue sensibly or are you just lazy? I feel sorry for you... The fact that you have an inability to sensibly deal with people with different views than yourself really makes me afraid for you and your future patients. This is one of the most important requirements to being a doctor. I suggust that you find another profession if you cannot peacful and mindfully understand other people's views.

Most URMs pay there way through school? Do you have any data to support this? Perhaps, many do with financial aid assistance...

Some students are so smart that they get a free ride, but not 16% Not all universities give full rides and those that do give at most 1 or 2.

All MD/ PhDs are on a free ride? Why is this? Does the research they do compensate for the cost or what?

Good luck to you
 
Originally posted by Pedonc
The medical school in my area offers 7-8 full scholarships that are ONLY available to african americans.

...and how many available exclusively to caucasians? asians?
 
Originally posted by Pedonc
MedguyNYC,

The school is the University of MS.
Here is an excerpt from an article about the scholarships that appeared in the Clarion Ledger, the top newspaper of Jackson, MS (the article can be found at clarionledger.com:

These "full-ticket" scholarships are worth approximately $23,000 for each year of medical school. The scholarships were made possible by a $2 million gift from James and Sally Barksdale to encourage highly qualified African-American medical students to stay in Mississippi for their medical training. Each of the scholarships is named for one of the Barksdale brothers who are physicians: Dr. Bryan Barksdale and Dr. Don Mitchell of Jackson and Dr. Fred McDonnell of Hazlehurst.He said Mississippi needs African-American physicians to help boost the health status of African-Americans in Mississippi.

These scholarships represent just one example of financial aid available for students at Mississippi's only academic health sciences center. To find out more, call the Division of Student Services and Records at (601) 984-1080.


Another program at UMC that is available on a "first come, first served" basis to either 20 or 25 students is one in which you receive a full tuition scholarship from the state if you agree to practice in MS for 5 years after med school. If you sign up for the scholarship and end up leaving the state, you immediately have to pay it all back with interest.

If they are private scholarships, donated for that purpose, then there is nothing wrong with it. Even though I am staunchly anti-AA and think it is morally repulsive to set aside your scholarship for people with only a certain skin color, at least it isn't state tax dollars.

BTW, I would sign up to practice in MS for 5 years and free school in a heartbeat. How fast can you hand me the pen? I wish their dental school did that, I would be moving down there as fast as I could pack my bags.

Still, no matter what anyone says, the debt is manageable. Even with a worst case scenario (no, 90K gross does NOT equal 45K net -- more like 55-60), that is still way more money than most people can ever hope to make doing anything else. Let me reiterate once again...you are not making any sacrifices financially by being a doctor. You must be one of the very few chosen ones to ever hope to make 100K doing anything besides medicine. This isn't 1999 anymore. People aren't sacrificing 50K per year jobs on graduation day from undergrad to go to med school. Most who are not will just be sitting around their parents' house, playing Playstation and waiting tables. Your economic future, even as a HMO strapped FP in Cali is far better than virtually anyone else in our generation. Just try to find a job for awhile, especially as a new grad. You will see what I mean.
 
Originally posted by Ophtho_MudPhud


6) If you make more than $126K/year, then you're in the top 5% of incomes in the US. If you can't pay off your loans with this amount of income, then you need to take finance courses or read the "Millionare Next Door'.

Amen. I just read this book (finally--five years after my mother gave it to me), and some of the docs profiled in it were absolutely astonishing ... Everyone in med school needs to read it; there's no excuse for docs to whine about money ...
 
Those of you who are saying that those who are debt free s/p graduation don't really know what you are talking about. I imagine that the majority of those graduating with no debt are doing so b/c their parents/family are able to foot the bill. I have some very good friends in medical school who happen to come from wealthy families. Their families are paying for both the tuition/fees and living expenses (just as they did in undergrad). FA is mostly need based or based on scholarly success and not on ethnicity or color. Also, age has a great deal to do with debt. Married students are often able to pay for the schooling if their spouse has a good-paying job. In addition, married students who have little/no income often get a very large portion of their medical fees taken care of via grants/scholarships. I think these things are more likely linked to the zero-debt status than being a URM. I'm a white male, but I think it is really silly how many people blame URMs for their own application/medical school experiences.
 
Top