Plan B Now OTC For All Ages

[Digsbe]

http://www.pharmacist.com/federal-j...l-ages?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

A recent court ruling made it to where Plan B must be a completely OTC product for all women and girls and I guess anyone else seeking to buy it. As most know the law previously required that minors have a prescription for Plan B.

Just curious about everyone's thoughts on the issue.

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[Ackj]

I would like it to be behind the counter, so you at least get a chance to counsel on it. Fine that no ID is required, because that never stopped minors from getting it anyway. Arguably minors probably need it the most, as they're often the least suited for parenthood.

Being OTC, does that mean insurances besides medicaid will refuse to pay for it?

 

[Lubeckd]

But groceries can sell it as well. Hope we can get a chance to consult these people, because birth controls decrease breast cancer but causes other cancers. Also it only works as prophylaxis. Hope these customers know the difference.

 

[Skrumpy]

Future Plan B dispensers..

 

[farmadiazepine]

good, now i don't have to ring it up anymore and can tell them to go up front

 

[owlegrad]

I wonder if cashiers will demand the right to not check this product out based on moral or religious beliefs?

 

[Ackj]

I wonder if cashiers will demand the right to not check this product out based on moral or religious beliefs?

Does that happen now in pharmacies? I know you always hear arguments about the pharmacist refusing to dispense, but what if their tech/clerk objects even though the Rph is fine with it? I imagine the Rph could always man the register, so I guess another cashier would take over in your proposed case.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Double post

 

[xiphoid2010]

http://www.pharmacist.com/federal-j...l-ages?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

A recent court ruling made it to where Plan B must be a completely OTC product for all women and girls and I guess anyone else seeking to buy it. As most know the law previously required that minors have a prescription for Plan B.

Just curious about everyone's thoughts on the issue.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. There has to be a reasonable age of consent for what is basically birth control. I'm sure lots of people are sexually active before 17, but that doesn't logically translate into allowing them to make medical decisons on their own. Maybe 16 is a reasonable, even if arbitrary number.

Thinking about it, say when my son ends up in junior high or high school, and is hooking up with some girl without protection. I sure the hell want to know and teach him a lesson, and not having them cover it up with some plan B.

 

[Momus]

Prevent medicaid babies being born = yes, please. Sell it next to condom isle for all I care >_>;

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Does anyone else think its messed up that a judge is making this decision? What's next, Judge Cheech making Marinol OTC?

 

[SoylentGreen]

Does that happen now in pharmacies? I know you always hear arguments about the pharmacist refusing to dispense, but what if their tech/clerk objects even though the Rph is fine with it? I imagine the Rph could always man the register, so I guess another cashier would take over in your proposed case.

I have three techs/cashiers like that. If they're the only ones there I just ring it up myself.

 

[JoBreeze]

I wonder if cashiers will demand the right to not check this product out based on moral or religious beliefs?

Heck yeah. Everyone gets a say.

 

[npage148]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. There has to be a reasonable age of consent for what is basically birth control. I'm sure lots of people are sexually active before 17, but that doesn't logically translate into allowing them to make medical decisons on their own. Maybe 16 is a reasonable, even if arbitrary number.

Thinking about it, say when my son ends up in junior high or high school, and is hooking up with some girl without protection. I sure the hell want to know and teach him a lesson, and not having them cover it up with some plan B.

Your approach is the exact reason there needs to be no age restrictions. "Teaching him a lesson" is not exactly the was to promote a safe and healthy sexual behavior. You can buy condoms at any age so why not this? I'd rather have them sneaking plan be than coming to you 3 months later asking for a ride to the clinic

I'd prefer it to be behind the counter so there can be some pharmacist interaction but then you run the risk of people trying to restrict access

 

[chrispharm]

Prevent medicaid babies being born = yes, please. Sell it next to condom isle for all I care >_>;

I am with you on this one.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. There has to be a reasonable age of consent for what is basically birth control. I'm sure lots of people are sexually active before 17, but that doesn't logically translate into allowing them to make medical decisons on their own. Maybe 16 is a reasonable, even if arbitrary number.

Thinking about it, say when my son ends up in junior high or high school, and is hooking up with some girl without protection. I sure the hell want to know and teach him a lesson, and not having them cover it up with some plan B.

Minors can consent to birth control, STI treatment and prenatal care in most states: http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_OMCL.pdf

And what the **** kind of lesson are you going to be teaching your son that involves forcing someone else's daughter to potentially endure an unwanted pregnancy? Nuts.

 

[Carboxide]

The article seemed to indicate to me that the FDA wanted it to be OTC originally for all ages, but was overridden by courts to demand 17+. I read it as this is actually accepting the FDA regulation.

 

[eagles22]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. There has to be a reasonable age of consent for what is basically birth control. I'm sure lots of people are sexually active before 17, but that doesn't logically translate into allowing them to make medical decisons on their own. Maybe 16 is a reasonable, even if arbitrary number.

Thinking about it, say when my son ends up in junior high or high school, and is hooking up with some girl without protection. I sure the hell want to know and teach him a lesson, and not having them cover it up with some plan B.

Or you could, you know, just be a really good parent and then, hopefully, your son will take the lessons you've taught him (including having safe sex or abstaining) and never end up in that situation. A ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

We all hope parents do this, and in the cases that they don't, at least we can prevent another person from becoming a bad parent by letting anyone get Plan B. No lesson is taught by forcing teenagers into parenthood. My only concern is that girls that are too small end up taking too high a dose and ending up with awful side effects. This is why it should be behind the counter so the pharmacist can counsel.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Minors can consent to birth control, STI treatment and prenatal care in most states: http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_OMCL.pdf

And what the **** kind of lesson are you going to be teaching your son that involves forcing someone else's daughter to potentially endure an unwanted pregnancy? Nuts.

Erh, as long as he is my son and he is doing something stupid, I need to teach him a lesson. You know, that's what parents do. Not teaching his a lesson would be being a bad parent.

Who the hell said I would be forcing someone else's daughter to endure an unwanted pregnancy? I would buy the plan B myself when my son told me, and then I would have a good talk with that girl's parents myself for letting her do something just as stupid as my son.

But all of that wouldn't work if minors who don't have the full mental capacity to make the right call can bypass their rightful legal guardian.

 

[owlegrad]

But all of that wouldn't work if minors who don't have the full mental capacity to make the right call can bypass their rightful legal guardian.

I think you are making a huge leap coming to the conclusion that your son will come clean to you in time. More likely they wait until she is showing before fessing up (I bet).

 

[xiphoid2010]

Or you could, you know, just be a really good parent and then, hopefully, your son will take the lessons you've taught him (including having safe sex or abstaining) and never end up in that situation. A ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Oh c'mon, we all have been there. Can you really say you always did what your parents taught you? In was a saint compared to most of my peers in junior high and high school, but still did a fair share of crazy and stupid stuff. Let's be realistic here.

There is an old Chinese saying, if the son is not obidient, its the father's fault. Until your child is grown, parents should have power of oversight over their children. How do you expect a immature person to make mature decisions?

 

[xiphoid2010]

I think you are making a huge leap coming to the conclusion that your son will come clean to you in time. More likely they wait until she is showing before fessing up (I bet).

You are also making a huge leap there are you not?

 

[eagles22]

Erh, as long as he is my son and he is doing something stupid, I need to teach him a lesson. You know, that's what parents do. Not teaching his a lesson would be being a bad parent.

Who the hell said I would be forcing someone else's daughter to endure an unwanted pregnancy? I would buy the plan B myself when my son told me, and then I would have a good talk with that girl's parents myself for letting her do something just as stupid as my son.

But all of that wouldn't work if minors who don't have the full mental capacity to make the right call can bypass their rightful legal guardian.

Let's think like a teenager. Would I:

Go to Dad who is going to yell and scream about this and ground me and definitely nip the pregnancy in the bud?

Or, risk it since every act of unprotected sex doesn't result in pregnancy and not get yelled at?

Like you said, teenagers are stupid and only think about the immediate future. Most of them are going with the option of hoping there is no pregnancy. Putting Plan B in their hands easily will prevent unwanted pregnancy.

 

[eagles22]

Oh c'mon, we all have been there. Can you really say you always did what your parents taught you? In was a saint compared to most of my peers in junior high and high school, but still did a fair share of crazy and stupid stuff. Let's be realistic here.

There is an old Chinese saying, if the son is not obidient, its the father's fault. Until your child is grown, parents should have power of oversight over their children. How do you expect a immature person to make mature decisions?

Not saying a child has to be a saint. I'm saying good parents prevent their kids from doing the completely stupid **** that will ruin their lives. This includes teaching them to be smart when they're doing stupid stuff (i.e. use a condom). But when people fail at this, at least having plan b available prevents the next generation from continuing the cycle.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Erh, as long as he is my son and he is doing something stupid, I need to teach him a lesson. You know, that's what parents do. Not teaching his a lesson would be being a bad parent.

Who the hell said I would be forcing someone else's daughter to endure an unwanted pregnancy? I would buy the plan B myself when my son told me, and then I would have a good talk with that girl's parents myself for letting her do something just as stupid as my son.

But all of that wouldn't work if minors who don't have the full mental capacity to make the right call can bypass their rightful legal guardian.

You're going to accomplish all of that within the 72 hour window for Plan B?

 

[xiphoid2010]

You're going to accomplish all of that within the 72 hour window for Plan B?

Buying Plan B for takes 15 minutes. Lesson will come shortly and without time limit.

 

[eagles22]

Buying Plan B for takes 15 minutes. Lesson will come shortly and without time limit.

This is all predicated on the belief that a child would go to his/her parents right away. What are the odds of that happening?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Buying Plan B for takes 15 minutes. Lesson will come shortly and without time limit.

Assuming your son tells you about the sexual encounter immediately after it happens. How likely is that?

 

[owlegrad]

You are also making a huge leap there are you not?

I don't know. What happens more often currently, do the kids come clean in time for their parents to buy them Plan B or do they 'wait and see'?

 

[xiphoid2010]

Not saying a child has to be a saint. I'm saying good parents prevent their kids from doing the completely stupid **** that will ruin their lives. This includes teaching them to be smart when they're doing stupid stuff (i.e. use a condom). But when people fail at this, at least having plan b available prevents the next generation from continuing the cycle.

err... Remember how single mindedly horny I was, if a girl was offering me sex one night when I was 14, condom or not, it's probably gonna happen. Unless my hormone level was off, but I somehow doubt it.

Good parenting are great. My parents were very harsh disciplinarians, and their teaching kept me out of the major problems that other kids on my schools had deal with. Their rules were simple, study hard and don't break laws. I did that most of the time, but sure isn't going to deny that I made some bone headed moves. But that's being a kid. The point is that the parents have the right to know, and handing drugs to those incapable of making medical decision is not the logical solution.

I would be ok with a compromise that kids can buy it, but their parents will be automatically notified. But kids should not be able to circumvent their parents to buy stuff like Plan B. It's not a pro-life or choice issue since I'm mostly pro-choice. But cutting parents out of the loop in plan B is just bad move in my view as a parent.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I don't know. What happens more often currently, do the kids come clean in time for their parents to buy them Plan B or do they 'wait and see'?

Since kids can't buy plan B, why ask a question that doesn't have an answer?

 

[xiphoid2010]

Assuming your son tells you about the sexual encounter immediately after it happens. How likely is that?

I think it's quite likely if you taught him right. My son comes to me and says 'oh-oh' when he makes a mess.

 

[eagles22]

err... Remember how single mindedly horny I was, if a girl was offering me sex one night when I was 14, condom or not, it's probably gonna happen. Unless my hormone level was off, but I somehow doubt it.

Good parenting are great. My parents were very harsh disciplinarians, and their teaching kept me out of the major problems that other kids on my schools had deal with. Their rules were simple, study hard and don't break laws. I did that most of the time, but sure isn't going to deny that I made some bone headed moves. But that's being a kid. The point is that the parents have the right to know, and handing drugs to those incapable of making medical decision is not the logical solution.

I would be ok with a compromise that kids can buy it, but their parents will be automatically notified. But kids should not be able to circumvent their parents to buy stuff like Plan B. It's not a pro-life or choice issue since I'm mostly pro-choice. But cutting parents out of the loop in plan B is just bad move in my view as a parent.

Do know you that in many states minors are considered adults with regards to reproductive health? Mom and Dad aren't entitled to know about birth control, abortions, STIs, etc in those states.

We all agree plan b is a necessity. The smart thing to do after having unprotected sex at that age is to go get it and prevent the pregnancy. Why would you want to limit teenager's abilities to go do the smart thing?

 

[eagles22]

I think it's quite likely if you taught him right. My son comes to me and says 'oh-oh' when he makes a mess.

If your kid is honest or good enough to come to you right away, then he's probably not having unprotected sex. This is a catch-22. Only good kids would come to their parents to ask for plan B after having unprotected sex. Good kids always use condoms.

Allowing anyone to get it allows those who aren't so close or respectful of parents to avoid becoming parents.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I think it's quite likely if you taught him right. My son comes to me and says 'oh-oh' when he makes a mess.

Are we talking about the kid who won't behave or sit in a stroller or let you use your own iPad? The toddler?

 

[xiphoid2010]

Do know you that in many states minors are considered adults with regards to reproductive health? Mom and Dad aren't entitled to know about birth control, abortions, STIs, etc in those states.

We all agree plan b is a necessity. The smart thing to do after having unprotected sex at that age is to go get it and prevent the pregnancy. Why would you want to limit teenager's abilities to go do the smart thing?

Great, if the people of a state want to vote that minors can keep parents out of their reproduction, that's their right. But so do many states that involves the parents. For example, in Texas you can't give consent to sex until 17, so if my son at 15 was hooking up with some girl on unprotected sex, I would need to know.

There is a reason for why certain decisions are made by adults, especially when it comes to medical decisions. What if the girl wouldn't mind having a baby but my son coerced her? Is it smart then? There is a lot of what-if's. And when it comes to something major like this, leaving the decision to someone 14-15 or younger just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Great, if the people of a state want to vote that minors can keep parents out of their reproduction, that's their right. But so do many states that involves the parents. For example, in Texas you can't give consent to sex until 17, so if my son at 15 was hooking up with some girl on unprotected sex, I would need to know.

There is a reason for why certain decisions are made by adults, especially when it comes to medical decisions. What if the girl wouldn't mind having a baby but my son coerced her? Is it smart then? There is a lot of what-if's. And when it comes to something major like this, leaving the decision to someone 14-15 or younger just doesn't make sense to me.

You need to look at the link I posted. I think you are confused about Texas law and state law on this in general. A minor's right to sexual privacy is not linked to the legal age of consent.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Are we talking about the kid who won't behave or sit in a stroller or let you use your own iPad? The toddler?

That's the one. I will let him do a lot of things as long as he learns thing and follow the few big rules I set for him. He says "oh-oh" to me and my wife, we cleans it up, no big deal. Kids make mess, likes iPad and toys. We complain about it with a smile. We keep the rules simple to the dangerous stuff like when he climb onto the desks and pulling on the TV that when we teach him a lesson.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Also, the Plan B age limit issue is not a matter of state law. Which makes the legal age of consent in Texas (or anywhere) even more irrelevant.

 

[eagles22]

Xiphoid, do you actually believe most kids are going to come to mom and dad rather than just hope that there is no pregnancy?

 

[npage148]

Maybe well start seeing plan b vending machines. Put those things around town and in the hs locker rooms

 

[xiphoid2010]

You need to look at the link I posted. I think you are confused about Texas law and state law on this in general. A minor's right to sexual privacy is not linked to the legal age of consent.

Sexual privacy is one thing, but if it's illegal (which they are if they are having sex before the age of consent), then doesn't illegal activity of minors fall within the legal responsibility of the parents/guardian?

I'm no lawyer, but that's my interpretation. Your link doesn't say otherwise.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Xiphoid, do you actually believe most kids are going to come to mom and dad rather than just hope that there is no pregnancy?

Do you actually believe most young kids can make the right medical decision themselves? Why through questions that you don't have concrete answers to?

I'm not saying banning plan B. I'm saying there has to be a reasonable middle ground between letting anyone age 0 and up to make major medical decisions vs. banning all plan B. I am arguing for a reasonable age cut off as the reasonable course of action.

 

[owlegrad]

Since kids can't buy plan B, why ask a question that doesn't have an answer?

That is my point. I am asking if kids currently go to their parents to ask them to buy Plan B for them. The kids can't buy it so the parents have to. Does that happen more often than the kids just ignoring it and hoping she doesn't get pregnant?

I am tired so perhaps I am not making sense.

 

[eagles22]

Sexual privacy is one thing, but if it's illegal (which they are if they are having sex before the age of consent), then doesn't illegal activity of minors fall within the legal responsibility of the parents/guardian?

I'm no lawyer, but that's my interpretation. Your link doesn't say otherwise.

You clearly are no lawyer. Age of consent doesn't mean it's illegal to have sex if you're younger than the age.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.21.htm#21.11

 

[eagles22]

Do you actually believe most young kids can make the right medical decision themselves? Why through questions that you don't have concrete answers to?

I'm not saying banning plan B. I'm saying there has to be a reasonable middle ground between letting anyone age 0 and up to make major medical decisions vs. banning all plan B. I am arguing for a reasonable age cut off as the reasonable course of action.

That cutoff is the age when the child starts having sex. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[xiphoid2010]

You clearly are no lawyer. Age of consent doesn't mean it's illegal to have sex if you're younger than the age.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.21.htm#21.11

Ok, maybe i'm not using the legal wording. But I just googled Texas law.

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/21.11.00.html

"A person commits an offense if, with a child younger than 17 years and not the person's
spouse, whether the child is of the same or opposite sex"

Not that I agree that 17 cut off. It seems a little outdated, but the point is there is an age cut off for legal sex. And if it was illegal for under-aged children to have sex, then doesn't that automatically lays the legal responsibility on the parents?

 

[eagles22]

Ok, maybe i'm not using the legal wording. But I just googled Texas law.

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/21.11.00.html

"A person commits an offense if, with a child younger than 17 years and not the person's
spouse, whether the child is of the same or opposite sex"

Not that I agree that 17 cut off. It seems a little outdated, but the point is there is an age cut off for legal sex.

You need to read the entire statute. There's more than just what you wanted to read.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the actor:
(1) was not more than three years older than the victim
and of the opposite sex;
(2) did not use duress, force, or a threat against the
victim at the time of the offense; and
(3) at the time of the offense:
(A) was not required under Chapter 62, Code of
Criminal Procedure, to register for life as a sex offender; or
(B) was not a person who under Chapter 62 had a
reportable conviction or adjudication for an offense under this
section.

BTW, it would be nice if you actually answered my question.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Sexual privacy is one thing, but if it's illegal (which they are if they are having sex before the age of consent), then doesn't illegal activity of minors fall within the legal responsibility of the parents/guardian?

I'm no lawyer, but that's my interpretation. Your link doesn't say otherwise.

My link doesn't address legal age of consent because it is irrelevant to the issue of minor sexual privacy. Also, legal age of consent laws are primarily concerned with defining the age limits for minor/adult sexual relationships, and are not typically used to prosecute minors who have sex with other minors. You are definitely no lawyer. I am not either, but I do have a degree in political science/constitutional law.

 

[eagles22]

More sexual promiscuity, higher STD rates, a selling/trade "market" amongst friends, etc.
But population control is the main goal (of course)
Now kids are just these young kids are gonna start saying "forget a condom, baby just go get the pill tomorrow and everything will be all good

They already say "forget the condom, you probably won't get pregnant". At least now, they can fix the pregnancy issue before it happens.