- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
- Messages
- 367
- Reaction score
- 21
Oh darn PADPM I'm not very good looking! Time to hit the gym!
You must have been on the syrup again. Because to say that somehow ALL hospital employees, in EVERY scenario have ZERO business sense (that is exactly what your statement implies) is false.
Maybe my experience has shown me something yours hasn't, yet. I'm not saying ZERO, but certainly less than someone who is in it everyday. Thanks for taking my comments to the extreme. That tells me a lot about you.
This sums YOU up. Kidsfeet's advice = worth same $$ as a professional attorney. You know everything, including all things that a professional in a field completely different than your own would know. Unreal.
Kidsfeet said:Ten years down the road you're unemployed with no idea how to run a business because you were a hospital guy and didn't bother learning all that stuff because you thought you wouldn't need it?
This is what you said. You generalize me as a "hospital guy" who "didn't bother learning" all of the business stuff because "I thought I wouldn't need it". I twisted nothing. You made this over-generalization of all hospital employees.
I don't think imaging or surgery centers work very well to make money any more.
"congratulations, but you clearly don't know what you've accomplished or gotten yourself into. You have zero understanding of contract negotiations, surgical centers, etc...but seriously, I'm happy for you."
Are you going to have your own office manager?
Will you be managing your own staff?
Will you ever have to fire anyone?
Will you ever do interviews for staff positions?
Will you ever have to personally deal with a staff member who steals from you?
Will you ever have to personally deal with staff not showing up and run the front desk to keep your doors open and not flush a day down the toilet because someone is sick?
Will you be directly responsible for all the billing you do?
Will you be running your own Public Relations campaign?
Will you have to go to a bank with a demographics study to get them to give you a loan to finance your new office?
Will you be aware of how much EVERYTHING you use costs?
Will you be trying to evaluate EMR systems to see which one you can afford and integrate into your office without having to invest in new hardware?
Will you be intimately involved in evaluating the various digital radiograph systems and figure out which one is most cost effective?
Will you worry about how much taxes you are paying for your business?
How much will that X-Mas bonus be for your hard working staff? Can you even afford to give one?
How much does it cost to replace that broken podiatry chair anyway? Can you get it used? Isn't there some kind of gov't incentive when purchasing new medical equipment?
Wow, I ran out of Lidocaine! How could I be so stupid. Wasn't the office manager supposed to keep track of that? Crap, national back order. Whoa...
OMG, the phones/internet/computers went out. WTF? I can't make a living if I can't communicate with my patients!!!
These are things that go through a business owners head all the time. You know how many people I know that went the hospital route and don't have a single clue about all these things? Will you two or three years out?
Ah, but you forgot THE most important issue;
"Do I prosecute that little old lady who keeps opening my cabinet drawers and steals all the corn pads and Band-Aids".
Sorry, but where exactly in my post did I actually say these things about YOU specifically??
If you say "Nowhere, but you implied it!", I'm going to ROFLMAO.
Kidsfeet said:Ten years down the road you're unemployed with no idea how to run a business because you were a hospital guy and didn't bother learning all that stuff because you thought you wouldn't need it
Kidsfeet said:you criticize others for something you won't have to do at all
Kidsfeet said:You won't have to do any of that stuff and have no idea how difficult what you propose really is. It's very easy from your position to think what an easy time it is to market yourself, blah, blah, blah
Kidsfeet said:Awesome stuff! I'm being honest. Congratulations. Some suit is going to do all that stuff you're talking about for you.
As for your list of 21 questions. I could answer "yes" to 15 of them (although 2-3 of the questions are things that many partners in a practice couldn't even say yes too). Including the all important final question. Of those 15 "yes" answers I would say almost half I could have answered "yes" to just during residency.
You make a lot of assumptions about me. And maybe you justify it by saying that all of these smart a** questions are only there to "help" people think about everything that goes into having your own practice. If that is the case, spare me. I had my own small business prior to and during Podiatry school. I don't need your advice, I've had my own failures to learn from. Hearing all about yours is just depressing.
Kidsfeet said:So when you're going to be employed by this hospital system you're going to be doing all these things?
Why would you twist that reply around and ask another condescending question?
You think his reply "Spare me", isn't condescending? Words of a big shot. Sorry.
So in answer to my question, you were being condescending because "he did it first"?
And please don't feed me the, "well you're an Asst Mod" line. Puhlease.
Kidsfeet said:I find it extremely hard to believe that this position RockyV apparently created for himself will have him do even half the stuff on the list I provided. If so, I'm wrong about HIS position.
So you don't feel like moderators should be held to a higher standard?
I don't feel because of my position I should allow others to feel like they should roll over me. I will defend myself and my views ESPECIALLY because of that. Should moderators just shut up when they get attacked?? What kind of community would that foster? I don't feel like I was being insulting or speaking inappropriately. If you did, report the post. Plain and simple.
I will do just over half of the stuff on the list provided.
i think its the opposite of what you are saying. I think they actually make more than they are saying. You always want to report a lower income for lower taxes
How that person will be able to pay down his loan with that kind of salary? Even pharmacists make more than that...If podiatrists are taking that kind of salary, it's not surprising the profession is having a tough time "getting off the ground" so to speak.I think that one of the greatest factors in starting salary is geographic location, and the other is the type of position accepted. As I've stated, I personally don't know any grads receiving those initial high salary offers at podiatric practices vs. institutions and orthopedic groups. As a general rule, the last 2 have deeper pockets.
Naturally, graduating a top program increases your chances of obtaining a great position, but honestly, many of these institutions or orthopedic groups may not have the knowledge regarding the quality of podiatric residency programs.
Your interview, appearance, attitude, etc., should be your greatest assests.
I spoke with a colleague the other day who was telling me about this incredible resident at his hospital. The kid apparently is the total package with great training, great skills, personality, etc. The residency program is VERY well known and respected. However, the kid wants to practice close to his family/home-town. As a result, he's accepted on offer with an older DPM who would like this young doc to build up the rearfoot/reconstructive side of the practice. I do NOT know the details of the contract, but the actually base salary was $85,000.
Yes, that seems low, but this young doc may see it as an opportunity to build a practice, own a piece of the practice and eventually own the practice,while at the same time serving his community. There are those who will say he's shortchanged himself, is crazy to take this offer, etc., but everyone has a different motivation, and initial salary isn't always the top factor.
I've stated many times on this site that if you are skilled, treat your patients well and are ethical, there is no reason why you won't make an excellent living. Additionally, although many of these grads are getting high offers initially, it's also been my experience that a few years down the line the numbers balance out among most of the grads, regardless of who they chose to work for initially.
How that person will be able to pay down his loan with that kind of salary? Even pharmacists make more than that...If podiatrists are taking that kind of salary, it's not surprising the profession is having a tough time "getting off the ground" so to speak.
How that person will be able to pay down his loan with that kind of salary? Even pharmacists make more than that...If podiatrists are taking that kind of salary, it's not surprising the profession is having a tough time "getting off the ground" so to speak.
How that person will be able to pay down his loan with that kind of salary?
Lets say hypothetically someone's loans- undergrad and grad- are around $350,000. So that'd be something like $32,000 a year. You're still taking home 50-60k based off of the salary in question.
I could see how a desire for a larger cash flow would be sought after, but in this haggard economy- and while practicing something you love- I really don't think it's all that bad... Especially as your initial pay grade.
Thoughts?
Taxes though...
True. Almost forgot about Uncle Sammy..
300K in debt...You also forgot 7 years of spending your life under a lot of stress, 20s spent with your nose in a book, friends out on vacations and posting amazing photos on Facebook, etc, etc.
I do love what I am doing though. I can say I know a lot of people who do not. But with all the work, and negative income. It would be nice to have a reward at the end to enjoy.
I am certainly the exception, not the rule. DO NOT expect to be in my situation. I'm likely in the top 1%. Well-trained podiatrist who own their own practices for entire careers sometimes don't achieve these numbers. I happened to be in the right place at the right time and was well-prepared. I would realistically expect for a well-trained surgical podiatrist with good business and interpersonal skills to start out making a base of around $130-$175K plus some bonus, become partner around 2-3 years out and be making around $225 year 5 and around $25-$275 year 10 and maxing out somewhere around $300K. That is likely realistic and something to shoot for. I personally think going with a hospital-based system is a mistake. Such a system tried to buy us out and offered us each $400K/yr but I suspect once that contract was up 3 years I would be replaced by a new surgical pod just out of residency willing to happily take $175K/yr. I think the best opportunity is joining a multi-disciplinary group, working hard and becoming a partner (assuming this is an option offered).
That's very much incorrect. Either you're lying about being a doctor or you're just brain dead. If you work at a successful podiatrist private practice, within the first year, you can bring in $250,000. Almost all of my cousins are podiatrists and tell me the same, the first year I worked at a private practice I made about $220,000. If you work at a garbage practice that has no business (which is very rare), you can expect around 90k the first year. If you are a partner of a successful private practice you can easily make $500,000. If you are the owner of a successful private practice, you can make a lot more. I've been owning 3 podiatrist private practices for about 6 years. The first year (when I only had once private practice) , I brought in $520,000. However, the second year when I opened up my other 2 practices I brought in about $1.4 mill. Newankle, you are defiantly not in the 1%. The 1% make well above a few million a year, however, at the same time they own many private practices. I've never took a hospital job, as I know the pay isn't as good, and the hours are not as good. You can make the same amount of money in dentistry or any healthcare related profession in which you have the choice of opening up your own private practice. My goal is to open up more than 10 practices, and therefore, I will make a lot more. It's not really about the money anymore, it's more about self achievements. My father was a very successful podiatrist, owned 8 practices. He was the top 1%, along with many other people.
I transferred out of DO school after MS1 to go DPM. Our school sponsored shadowing surgeries at a local hospital. I met a local DPM and was convinced this was the life. I've worked at level 1 centers and worked with all sorts of residents. General surgery residents are a wreck, and int med sit on the wards till 3am.
The main reason I withdrew was because I was shocked by how busy this physician was. He was doing 8-9 surgeries a week, all were unique cases. In clinic we were seeing 50 patients a Day.
Long story short. Podiatry is about to explode as evidenced by the practice I shadowed and the aging population. If you want to be a surgeon like I did, and you don't want to do a 5yr surgery residency, then a fellowship.... Go DPM. 3yrs residency and Max 2yrs for fellowship, with so many specialties.
The physician I shadowed was extremely open when we discussed his income. As an independent practitioner he was netting 600k. He told me that if he moved his practice to LA or NY he would net double. (We were in New Mexico, which has the greatest shortage of physicians in America)
Think about it 50 patients a day and 10 surgeries a week... The sky is the limit and he emphasized how many lucrative opportunities are opening up for DPMs.
#realtalkThat's very much incorrect. Either you're lying about being a doctor or you're just brain dead. If you work at a successful podiatrist private practice, within the first year, you can bring in $250,000. Almost all of my cousins are podiatrists and tell me the same, the first year I worked at a private practice I made about $220,000. If you work at a garbage practice that has no business (which is very rare), you can expect around 90k the first year. If you are a partner of a successful private practice you can easily make $500,000. If you are the owner of a successful private practice, you can make a lot more. I've been owning 3 podiatrist private practices for about 6 years. The first year (when I only had once private practice) , I brought in $520,000. However, the second year when I opened up my other 2 practices I brought in about $1.4 mill. Newankle, you are defiantly not in the 1%. The 1% make well above a few million a year, however, at the same time they own many private practices. I've never took a hospital job, as I know the pay isn't as good, and the hours are not as good. You can make the same amount of money in dentistry or any healthcare related profession in which you have the choice of opening up your own private practice. My goal is to open up more than 10 practices, and therefore, I will make a lot more. It's not really about the money anymore, it's more about self achievements. My father was a very successful podiatrist, owned 8 practices. He was the top 1%, along with many other people.
Location was New Mexico?
Isn't this growth strictly based on the "Go to where the money is" sentiment? Newly grads usually move back to their home cities which are much more saturated.
Scope of practice may also change across state lines.
I've had more than 1 DPM tell me specifically not to go into podiatry and it was out of legitimate care.
Not saying you're wrong but the statement "Podiatry is about to explode" depends severely on saturation/geographical area no?
#realtalk
Yea this 1% talk is baloni... There are so many misconceptions about the need for podiatrists/podiatry in general. It's a stigma that is good for us. There are cities like mine that can't handle the new patients. We are booking out 6 months. Like you said if you can manage to expand to multiple locations and hire enough staff you can make as much money as you want.
****, podiatry is literally the salary of internal medicine + Orthopaedic surgery. As you may know podiatrist generally rely on themselves to manage other issues such as rheumatoid arthritis... Etc.
Location was New Mexico?
Isn't this growth strictly based on the "Go to where the money is" sentiment? Newly grads usually move back to their home cities which are much more saturated.
Scope of practice may also change across state lines.
I've had more than 1 DPM tell me specifically not to go into podiatry and it was out of legitimate care.
Not saying you're wrong but the statement "Podiatry is about to explode" depends severely on saturation/geographical area no?
Not trying to be confrontational, but why are the people on this website saying that DPMs make around 150-200k the first year out? I know that IM doctors working as hospitalists make 200-250k starting out so do you think DPM increases salary more as time goes on?
Starting salary information for podiatrists: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...ome-as-a-new-grad-questions-answered.1154935/
I wouldn't necessarily agree with this bit. Whatever region or system of the body you're working on, you can be thorough or you can not be thorough. There's enough complexity in the foot, ankle, leg to keep you with one patient all day if you wanted to. And it's not like you can completely ignore other body systems and focus ONLY on the foot, ankle, and leg.Now think how much faster you would be if you only has to work from the ankle down
1) podiatry groups looking to hire new graduates offer the least compensation and the worst contracts (in terms of years needed to work to make partner). Highest starting salary offer I came across was 135K from a podiatry group.
Any comments about the pay in academia? (Research & teaching)
I'll give you my n=1 experience with academics. I applied for a few academic positions and got far enough along with 1 position in a large university hospital to get some specifics. The position was a clinical position with 4 days of clinic/hospital and 1 day of administrative/research time. No podiatry residency but would work with some other residents and medical students. Standard benefit package with a base salary of just short of 200k. No production bonus. As @pacpod said, the income potential is probably higher most of the time in private or group practice, but people don't usually go into academia for the money.Any comments about the pay in academia? (Research & teaching)
I'll give you my n=1 experience with academics. I applied for a few academic positions and got far enough along with 1 position in a large university hospital to get some specifics. The position was a clinical position with 4 days of clinic/hospital and 1 day of administrative/research time. No podiatry residency but would work with some other residents and medical students. Standard benefit package with a base salary of just short of 200k. No production bonus. As @pacpod said, the income potential is probably higher most of the time in private or group practice, but people don't usually go into academia for the money.
The pay is decent, but it's not nearly as much as you could make in most other practice settings. As far as the fellowship question, most podiatrists in academic positions didn't do fellowships so I wouldn't say it's crucial. I didn't do a fellowship - not that I'm in academia. I would say that it would likely make you stand out and open some doors for you, but it's not necessary^^^^ that sounds really good to me!
And the pay in your particular example is not something I would have a problem with (adjusting for inflation, etc)!
Thank you!
I take it that's probably crucial that an academic pod pursues a fellowship?