Podiatry Opinion

[Medfieldfuture]

So i would like to know what is everyone's opinion; podiatry, M.D., D.O.,etc.. on this field and on its growth potential, it's future in medicine, the residency disaster etc..?

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[SuckySurgeon7]

Just an incoming OMS-1 here, but I see a growing future for podiatry. My reasons include the following:

1. Growth of diabetic population
2. Increased length of podiatric residency in recent years leading to more complicated procedures
3. Baby boomer generation still aging up, more chip and clipping.
4. Who else will do chip and clip? Bunion removals? Anybody can feel free to correct me, but I think the only poaching comes from Orthos who I would assume only poach the big procedures (???).

2 things that I wonder about: California pod schools falling under the LCME; overall medicare reimbursements for pods (I don't follow this trend).

 

[Telekinesis]

There always will be money to be made in podiatry. It's a great field. Lots of procedures to do, little bit of ortho and derm in there.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Just an incoming OMS-1 here, but I see a growing future for podiatry. My reasons include the following:

1. Growth of diabetic population
2. Increased length of podiatric residency in recent years leading to more complicated procedures
3. Baby boomer generation still aging up, more chip and clipping.
4. Who else will do chip and clip? Bunion removals? Anybody can feel free to correct me, but I think the only poaching comes from Orthos who I would assume only poach the big procedures (???).

2 things that I wonder about: California pod schools falling under the LCME; overall medicare reimbursements for pods (I don't follow this trend).

I agree with you on all points. Yeah number 4 seems to be true based on what the pods say on this forum. I also think Orthos would be the only poachers, especially if they have done a fellowship that encompass lower extremities surgeries.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I don't understand why some med students look down on podiatrists... I work with these guys in the OR and they are awesome... If someone can't get into med school because of GPA/MCAT, I think they should consider pod school before going into a carib med school adventure.

 

[NurWollen]

Podiatry is an awesome field. My school's pod students have all their main courses with us DO students. All the big ones... biochem, physiology, anatomy, neuro. They have clinical medicine separately, and they take an additional lower extremely anatomy class over the summer, when we are off. They have some really smart guys in their who routinely outperform is on exams. In addition they pay ~20k/year lower tuition than us, and many of them will make more money with a better lifestyle than those of us DO students who go into primary care. Smart choice they made.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Podiatry is an awesome field. My school's pod students have all their main courses with us DO students. All the big ones... biochem, physiology, anatomy, neuro. They have clinical medicine separately, and they take an additional lower extremely anatomy class over the summer, when we are off. They have some really smart guys in their who routinely outperform is on exams. In addition they pay ~20k/year lower tuition than us, and many of them will make more money with a better lifestyle than those of us DO students who go into primary care. Smart choice they made.

From what I remember salary wise, podiatrist make around $130 thousand and the average primary care physician salary is around $180 thousand. Considering the lower tuition, it is kind of even between the two. Unless a podiatry student goes into a surgical field, then their average salary could be above $200 thousand!

I don't understand why some med students look down on podiatrists... I work with these guys in the OR and they are awesome... If someone can't get into med school because of GPA/MCAT, I think they should consider pod school before going into a carib med school adventure.

It was surprising to know that there are those who go to pod school because they love the field (these are bright guys that could have gotten into medical school). There will always be those who look down on others, that just how life is. Plus the match rate for pod students into residency is 85%, which is much better than a 50% match rate for foreign schools. Definitely a better choice.

 

[Andrew77]

I was just talking to a bunch of doctors about this. It's easily a better career choice for those that didn't want to wait to start med school and/or couldn't get into a US school. I think of general DPMs as similar OB/GYN: variety with some primary care, some surgery, some call but all in a limited scope, and probably about the same payscale. Some get lucky and get to do mostly foot/ankle ortho, others get unlucky in that they only work with chronic foot wounds (though, maybe some of them like it?)
The difference is you have to be able to handle feet for the rest of your life and deal with lots of foot ulcers, amputations, osteomyolitis, etc. -- though this is similar to having to deal with being a pecker-checker the rest of your life as a urologist.

 

[Dharma]

I think of general DPMs as similar OB/GYN: variety with some primary care, some surgery, some call but all in a limited scope, and probably about the same payscale.

You sure about that? I think the average OB/GYN would disagree with this. It's a very demanding field in general (e.g. lots of call esp in smaller groups) and compensation probably a good 100K more on average than the pod.

Podiatry may be a good option. But med school leaves open a lot more options. Given the choice, med school is the way to go in general, unless you really dig feet. If I couldn't get into med school though, I would go with nursing instead of podiatry. Cheaper route and as an NP, compensation won't be too shabby either.

 

[Andrew77]

I was going to write the caveat of "except without the babies," but then I didn't want someone to say that OB/GYN/ortho/etc. was podiatry without xxx and yyy.
I think most OB/GYNs are pretty happy with what they do. I often hear that the first few years out of residency are pretty difficult, as with most small practices, but that they generally have good outcomes and a nice variety as I mentioned.

I also assumed that most podiatrists that frequent SDN, or any pre-med thinking of doing podiatry, would be on the upper quartile of earners. Aren't we all the cream of the crop over here? =P

 

[Jwalker]

Just about every podiatrist can do surgery these days. The 60% of DOs that go into family medicine will never touch a scalpel again. Another thing to think about.

 

[payme2]

Podiatry is definitely up and coming field. 85% match rate is still a problem but they have changed to a mandatory 3 year surgical residency now. Plus their salary is on average higher than primary care medicine. More reason not to go into primary care medicine, just a poor return on investment overall with higher tuition compare to podiatry school with lower salaries.

Per the 2010 MGMA report: (found on http://forums.studentdoctor.net/att...sician-compensation-survey-summary-pdf.16721/)

Median Salaries...
FP without OB $183,999
FP with OB $202,528
General Podiatry $196,180
Surgical Podiatry $278,286


MGMA 2012 specialty report has podiatry average at $226,972 and $296,497 for general podiatry and surgical podiatry respectively. More reason not to go into primary care medicine, just a poor return on investment overall. Something to really consider with increased cost tuition at osteopathic school. Dentistry is known to have great income too, but they pay an absurd amount in tuition. Podiatry seems to be a hidden gem, with lower tuition cost and higher salaries.

 

[NurWollen]

Podiatry is definitely up and coming field. 85% match rate is still a problem but they have changed to a mandatory 3 year surgical residency now. Plus their salary is on average higher than primary care medicine. More reason not to go into primary care medicine, just a poor return on investment overall with higher tuition compare to podiatry school with lower salaries.

Per the 2010 MGMA report: (found on http://forums.studentdoctor.net/att...sician-compensation-survey-summary-pdf.16721/)

Median Salaries...
FP without OB $183,999
FP with OB $202,528
General Podiatry $196,180
Surgical Podiatry $278,286


MGMA 2012 specialty report has podiatry average at $226,972 and $296,497 for general podiatry and surgical podiatry respectively. More reason not to go into primary care medicine, just a poor return on investment overall. Something to really consider with increased cost tuition at osteopathic school. Dentistry is known to have great income too, but they pay an absurd amount in tuition. Podiatry seems to be a hidden gem, with lower tuition cost and higher salaries.

That's awesome. What MD/DO specialities have a typical income 275k+ with just a three year residency? EM is all I can think of, and pod still has the advantage with lower tuition. As far as the pod residency crunch, my pod student friends said that their accrediting body has a strict cap on the overall number of pod seats- no expansion is going on, apparently. Who knew? A specialty bent on self preservation rather than expanding itself into oblivion.

 

[NurWollen]

There was wide spread outrage within the profession that students could meet all the minimum standards of their respective podiatry school but yet not obtain a residency position not because of lack of competence but because there was not enough seats. That didn't sit well with both current attendings and students alike. The profession is not out of the woods yet. Current programs, who have the resources, have increased spots and there has been many new programs created in the last two years. Couple this with schools decreasing enrolment and the profession has almost eliminated the deficit.

Sorry, I might have been misunderstood. I was talking about a cap on the number of seats in pod schools, not residencies. Good to know that the podiatry powers that be are responsive to students and attendings.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

why do you do 2 weeks of behavioral health?

Edit: not to be rude, thats a serious q

 

[Mad Jack]

Podiatrists at my hospital are pretty awesome. They have admitting privileges, take primary charge of their patients, etc. Only trouble I ever run into is when their patients start having problems- getting them to respond to pages and issue orders when their patients start having problems is kind of a pain, because things start falling outside their scope, so we have to get the medical team involved. Good field though, good pay, a high level of procedure complexity, and a growing patient population without any turf battles from other providers outside of ortho.

 

[dyk343]

From what I remember salary wise, podiatrist make around $130 thousand and the average primary care physician salary is around $180 thousand. Considering the lower tuition, it is kind of even between the two. Unless a podiatry student goes into a surgical field, then their average salary could be above $200 thousand!


It was surprising to know that there are those who go to pod school because they love the field (these are bright guys that could have gotten into medical school). There will always be those who look down on others, that just how life is. Plus the match rate for pod students into residency is 85%, which is much better than a 50% match rate for foreign schools. Definitely a better choice.

All pods are surgically trained. Some have better surgical training than others (as with any surgical profession), but we all have to complete a 36 month surgical residency.

Match rate for residency was 89.5% for the class of 2014 (that number has increased since published as several programs took students on since then). Many students matched from 2012, and 2013 bringing down the match rate for 2014. Traditinally 5-10% of students do not match into residency. That is because, yes there is a shortage, but also because podiatry school is not that hard to get into. When students squeak by in school and barely pass but go out on externships they flounder. Floundering = no residency placement. Residency is a job. Residency directors do not want a bare minimum doctor.

 

[IslandStyle808]

All pods are surgically trained. Some have better surgical training than others (as with any surgical profession), but we all have to complete a 36 month surgical residency.

Match rate for residency was 89.5% for the class of 2014 (that number has increased since published as several programs took students on since then). Many students matched from 2012, and 2013 bringing down the match rate for 2014. Traditinally 5-10% of students do not match into residency. That is because, yes there is a shortage, but also because podiatry school is not that hard to get into. When students squeak by in school and barely pass but go out on externships they flounder. Floundering = no residency placement. Residency is a job. Residency directors do not want a bare minimum doctor.

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I kind of thought that some podiatrists focused only surgery (I knew that all residencies having surgical training). I think that is a misconception on my part. The field is what you make of it.

As for the residencies, do you think the match rate will hold at around 90% or even increase? I have read on the podiatry forms that residency spots offered vary from year to year (some programs decide not to offer spot for certain years).

 

[SuckySurgeon7]

Lots of good info from this thread, esp. the pod residency info.

What's funny to me is the difference in reaction between this thread and the identical twin thread (now taken down) that the OP posted in the allo forum. He got called a troll and belittled mercilessly for a simple, and in my opinion completely legitimate, question.

Glad you guys here in the osteo forum are way cooler.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I have really enjoyed this thread and the respect is has given pods

So I am applying to DO school this cycle. I have decent stats (3.6gpa and 28 MCAT). So I'd hope to have a shot at DO school... Yet in the back of my mind I do keep thinking about podiatry a little. I worked at a large podiatry clinic as a medical assistant. Here they had residents, did surgery etc and it definitely opened my eyes on the field. Especially talking to the new residents I was surprised by the professionalism and knowledge base that they held.

So long story short, I am really stuck. I guess I don't necessary want a clear cut pros/cons list of DO vs pod, but at the same time I can't help feeling that pod is a solid option. From experience I definitely saw that its nice that you get primary care, yet can do surgery, its very procedure based, yet can get mildly repetitive. The pods I worked with did research and gave talks and stuff. All of them seemed very comfortable money wise and extremely happy. I almost wish my experience with pod would have left me with distain so that I could just apply DO and not look back.

The major thing about medical school that I think is better than pod is simply choice. I was a completely different person 4 years ago and I can appreciate that I will be completely different 4 years from now, so I like that DO would really give me tons of choices in lots of different fields.

What do you all think? Sorry if y'all feel like this is sort of messing up the thread...

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[BestDoctorEver]

I have really enjoyed this thread and the respect is has given pods

So I am applying to DO school this cycle. I have decent stats (3.6gpa and 28 MCAT). So I'd hope to have a shot at DO school... Yet in the back of my mind I do keep thinking about podiatry a little. I worked at a large podiatry clinic as a medical assistant. Here they had residents, did surgery etc and it definitely opened my eyes on the field. Especially talking to the new residents I was surprised by the professionalism and knowledge base that they held.

So long story short, I am really stuck. I guess I don't necessary want a clear cut pros/cons list of DO vs pod, but at the same time I can't help feeling that pod is a solid option. From experience I definitely saw that its nice that you get primary care, yet can do surgery, its very procedure based, yet can get mildly repetitive. The pods I worked with did research and gave talks and stuff. All of them seemed very comfortable money wise and extremely happy. I almost wish my experience with pod would have left me with distain so that I could just apply DO and not look back.

The major thing about medical school that I think is better than pod is simply choice. I was a completely different person 4 years ago and I can appreciate that I will be completely different 4 years from now, so I like that DO would really give me tons of choices in lots of different fields.

What do you all think? Sorry if y'all feel like this is sort of messing up the thread...

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When in doubt, always choose the one with more flexibility...

 

[NurWollen]

I can't help but think that if podiatry were an MD/DO subspecialty it would be crazy competitive. I mean, imagine if the path to becoming a podiatrist were to get an MD/DO and then do a residency in podiatry. Good pay, potentially good lifestyle, shorter residency than other surgical fields... it would be insanely hard to get into.

 

[OPPforlife]

I can't help but think that if podiatry were an MD/DO subspecialty it would be crazy competitive. I mean, imagine if the path to becoming a podiatrist were to get an MD/DO and then do a residency in podiatry. Good pay, potentially good lifestyle, shorter residency than other surgical fields... it would be insanely hard to get into.

Or not. Maybe the least competitive. Do you know how gross feet are??


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[Awesome Sauceome]

Or not. Maybe the least competitive. Do you know how gross feet are??


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I mean seriously... after working at a podiatrists, its seriously not that bad. Sure its not as glamorous as ortho or something, but really, most of the feet stuff is not that bad. I would rather do Feet than urology any day for sure.

Just from my experience as an MA, it seemed nice because they get a mix or Primary care, ortho, derm, and vascular. Some that I knew performed more surgeries, some performed less.


I too cant help but think that if it was a an MD/DO specialty, that it would be very competitive. And thats where I guess some of my issue comes in. Is it an issue of pride that I have been thinking "well I have been working to become an MD/DO for years now, and it would be weird changing now (that I am so close to applying), I am nervous to jump ship on that plan."
And then there is the part of me, that has shadowed primary care physicians and have seen how miserable some of them are. Yet all of the pods I know seriously could not be happier. Their jobs are so variable I think is one of the reasons... 3-4 days clinic, 1-2 days surgery is a sweet deal if you ask me. And they can change that up depending on how their practice begins to shape over time. They work a really solid 9-5 yet can be surgeons.... thats insane to me. I shadowed an ortho surgeon for like 3 months and like as much as I would be interested in the cases and the job, their lifestyle is really really bad. They receive their enjoyment in life from their work. Which is very good, and I want to enjoy my work and be passionate about what I do, but i mean, that is a HUGE commitment.
But at the same time, its like with pod, that is where you stop. You have pretty much reached the end of the road with pod. Going MD/DO route, I enjoy the fact that I would be able to pick a specialty and even change later if i am absolutely miserable (i personally know several docs who have done this). You could end up teaching or going into admin or a bunch of other stuff if you go MD/DO.

So its like security of an interesting job that mixes my interests of procedures with primary care or:
Security of choice, even with other jobs that are not involved in being a clinician. I could very well want to get into more leadership/admin stuff when I am older, you just never know.

Maybe I am just having gitters now that the application is finally happening... I dont know... either route is a big commitment and a lot of money.

 

[SuckySurgeon7]

I would rather do Feet than urology any day for sure.

LOL! Okay, it's the last week of genetics class, and we're discussing the match process and the scramble at the end of medical school, and I said, "Wow, can you imagine how terrible it would be to get scrambled into something like urology and have to look at people's junk all day???"

The guy next to me chuckles for a second before replying, "Dude, did you realize urology is actually a really competitive specialty?"

One man's trash is another man's 250K + time for golf, ha ha. I for one agree that any surgical subspecialty that gets you home by 5:30 and has little to no call is one of the best kept secrets in medicine! Good luck to all you future pods and I look forward to hearing what kind of professional the OP decides to become!

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Been reading forums for hours and making pros/cons lists
Finally found this treasure.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/why-do-podiatry-get-paid-as-high-as-some-surgeons.645874/

I am applying DO and not looking back. It was a moment of weakness heh... Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[dyk343]

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I kind of thought that some podiatrists focused only surgery (I knew that all residencies having surgical training). I think that is a misconception on my part. The field is what you make of it.

As for the residencies, do you think the match rate will hold at around 90% or even increase? I have read on the podiatry forms that residency spots offered vary from year to year (some programs decide not to offer spot for certain years).

Residency spots vary from year to year for every profession. We are just smaller (~525) so you hear about it more when one disbands (or opens up). I expect the match rate to be around 95% and it will likely stay around there. And as for the shortage... My MD/DO friends tell me of a shortage on their side this year as well. So it's not just podiatry. If one chooses podiatry... Don't be in the bottom of the class/squeak by and it will work out.

 

[dyk343]

And to comment on the thread above.

1) Yes ortho F&A docs make more money than podiatrists. They can also fix humerus fxs, hip fxs, etc, etc. They are orthopedic surgeons. They just did a fellowship in foot/ankle. You can't have a podiatrist come in to fix a hip fx because you are on vacation. A F&A orthopedist can. Therefore they are more valuable and can negotiate a higher salary. I don't see how anyone would/could dispute this. With that said, I think $200-250K is a reasonable number for a well trained podiatrist. If you go to a chip/clip residency the salary will be considerably less.

2) Gigatron is a pre-pod and obviously stepped out of line due to ignorance. Every F&A orthopod I have scrubbed with is a boss in the OR. They are VERY well trained.

 

[Trannie]

Moment of weakness?

Not that I care what professional path you take but if you are basing your professional life and goals on the above quoted SDN thread then I strongly encourage you to use better resources for more insight into the Podiatric profession. Good luck.

I agree. SDN should be used for general information and not to make life decisions such as your career!

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I worked at a podiatrist clinic... Its actually what originally introduced me to ANY medical field as a profession I would be interested in

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[NurWollen]

Moment of weakness?

Not that I care what professional path you take but if you are basing your professional life and goals on the above quoted SDN thread then I strongly encourage you to use better resources for more insight into the Podiatric profession. Good luck.

Not necessarily offensive if you consider that that idiom is generally used to describe caving to a temptation for something highly desirable.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

And it was more of a moment of weakness because for like the last 18 months I have really been down the DO path. I am ready and committed to it. I have enjoyed working with and shadowing DOs and have been excited to apply and have basically just been waiting for the application to open. So my "moment of weakness" (if we are going to get into semantics) has nothing to do with the fact that I think pod is any worse (otherwise I would not be considering it at all), but more or less weakness in my commitment of the path that I have chosen and have been working towards. I have spent time working with both pods and DOs and I truly respect both professions. I started down the DO path not because I think that pod is any worse but just that DO would give me a greater range in opportunities. I deviated from that thought for a couple of weeks and started looking into pod school and all of the details that are entailed (sort of finally taking the time to look back at my experiences while working at a podiatrist's). After more researching and soul searching, I came back to my original thought which is that I enjoy the diversity in specialties that DO would provide, so that is the path for me. So while the wording would possibly be better by saying "second thoughts" (or something like that. It came out in my writing as a couple week period which I said was a "moment of weakness." I apologize if I offended anyone in either profession. They are both truly great fields to go into. I have been made aware of that from my own personal experiences, not just SDN. These forums simply reminded me of some of the things that had kept me going towards DO and away from pod in the first place.

 

[Seth Joo]

Podiatry is a different profession compared to Allopathic/Osteopathic medicine. Osteopathic physicians tend to be more focused on primary care, but there are plenty who work as specialists. If you go into Podiatry you will be limited to that area of the body. From what I have heard Podiatry school is extremely rigorous.

I had a classmate who did not get into any Allopathic medical schools and went to Dental school as an alternative. He did not even want to consider the DO route.

I think the best way to answer this question is to shadow several Podiatrists and Osteopathic physicians, they can give you better insight into a career path.

 

[NurWollen]

Podiatry is a different profession compared to Allopathic/Osteopathic medicine. Osteopathic physicians tend to be more focused on primary care, but there are plenty who work as specialists. If you go into Podiatry you will be limited to that area of the body. From what I have heard Podiatry school is extremely rigorous.

I had a classmate who did not get into any Allopathic medical schools and went to Dental school as an alternative. He did not even want to consider the DO route.

I think the best way to answer this question is to shadow several Podiatrists and Osteopathic physicians, they can give you better insight into a career path.

Wow, I'm glad he didn't take a DO seat from someone who actually wanted to be a physician.

 

[Seth Joo]

Wow, I'm glad he didn't take a DO seat from someone who actually wanted to be a physician.

The last I heard from him he was doing a Maxillofacial residency and is also getting an MD degree. There are quite a few people who still only think MD = Physician.

 

[NurWollen]

The last I heard from him he was doing a Maxillofacial residency and is also getting an MD degree. There are quite a few people who still only think MD = Physician.

Quite a few pre-meds, you mean.

 

[Seth Joo]

Quite a few pre-meds, you mean.

I am talking about professional people that earn over 100k a year, in my part of the country there is a very strong bias towards MDs.