Points to Consider about CCF

[DOme2009]

windycitygasman - this discussion reveals an inability on your part to tolerate diversity and it sounds like ccf wouldn't be a good fit for you. please grow up. your unwarranted self-entitlement makes you sound like a douchebag

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[Arch Guillotti]

Snappy,

In high school, I studied/worked hard to get into a good college. At that college, I studied/worked hard to get into a good medical school. At that medical school, I have studied/worked hard to get into a good residency. At that residency, I will study/work hard to get a good job.

Yes, I want others with my pedigree. Not that DOs/FMGs cannot run fast and keep pace or set the pace, but they obviously have not been doing it as I have for as long as I have (and there are a ton of both DOs & FMGs at Cleveland CLinic). The same is true for CRNAs; I do not want a place, like Cleveland Clinic, that gives priority in training or relief to CRNAs over Residents.

I'm simply thinking that Cleveland Clinic isn't making the grades I'm looking for... Has anyone else seen this during interviews/rotations? Does anyone agree with me, or am I really off point like Snappy thinks??

The MD/DO flame wars have been around as long as SDN has been around. You may find more of a captive audience in the pre-allo, pre-osteo areas.

I would not get too caught up in some of the things that seem to have your panties in a wad. Find a geographic area of the country that you like, rank programs highly that you would feel comfortable at. If DO's and FMG's really bug you that much then don't rank those places.

Once you get furthur along you (maybe) will realize that many of your concerns aren't really that big of a deal.

 

[badgas]

Snappy,

In high school, I studied/worked hard to get into a good college. At that college, I studied/worked hard to get into a good medical school. At that medical school, I have studied/worked hard to get into a good residency. At that residency, I will study/work hard to get a good job.

Yes, I want others with my pedigree. Not that DOs/FMGs cannot run fast and keep pace or set the pace, but they obviously have not been doing it as I have for as long as I have (and there are a ton of both DOs & FMGs at Cleveland CLinic). The same is true for CRNAs; I do not want a place, like Cleveland Clinic, that gives priority in training or relief to CRNAs over Residents.

I'm simply thinking that Cleveland Clinic isn't making the grades I'm looking for... Has anyone else seen this during interviews/rotations? Does anyone agree with me, or am I really off point like Snappy thinks??

You will quickly find out that anesthesiology residency has NO room for arrogance. I have a feeling that you will learn this the hard way.

 

[DO4lifer]

Snappy,

In high school, I studied/worked hard to get into a good college. At that college, I studied/worked hard to get into a good medical school. At that medical school, I have studied/worked hard to get into a good residency. At that residency, I will study/work hard to get a good job.

Yes, I want others with my pedigree. Not that DOs/FMGs cannot run fast and keep pace or set the pace, but they obviously have not been doing it as I have for as long as I have (and there are a ton of both DOs & FMGs at Cleveland CLinic). The same is true for CRNAs; I do not want a place, like Cleveland Clinic, that gives priority in training or relief to CRNAs over Residents.

I'm simply thinking that Cleveland Clinic isn't making the grades I'm looking for... Has anyone else seen this during interviews/rotations? Does anyone agree with me, or am I really off point like Snappy thinks??

i turned down M.D. schools to go to DO school. i probably went to a better undergrad than you, and probably even scored higher on the USMLE. furthermore, probably scored higher on the COMLEX than you could. On top of that, I'm probably taller than you too.

Does it matter? No.

Why? Because good physicians aren't made from good scores. Even at UCSF or Hopkins, there are crappy med students that will make crappy physicians. Not everyone will become known as Miller or Barash. I met an anesthesiologist from Hopkins that now practices in a rural town of 50,000 people, where one patient responded "I think I heard of it"

 

[Kid Sister]

I heard about this blog from a classmate. I interviewed at Cleveland Clinic and think some of these things ring true from talking with residents. This is bad, to think CRNAs have so much pull at such a large program. Also, there are too many FMGs and DOs at this program. I don't bash either group, but other programs I am interested in have far fewer of each.

I was interviewed by a DO resident and another DO resident was interviewing that day too. I'm sure they must be exceptions to the stereotype, but I didn't kick ass on the MCAT, Step I, and Step II to have someone who couldn't get into an Allopathic Medical School quiz me about why I'm a good pick.

Given the blog starting this chain, the power of CRNAs, and the FMG and DO numbers at Cleveland Clinic I think I'm losing interest. Does this make any sense or am I over-analyzing the whole thing?

actually almost all of our FMG's are people who were full-fledged attendings in their home countries and since they came here, they have to start over. it's pretty convenient because i can ask them to teach me stuff whenever i hang with them without worrying that i look like an idiot in front of an attending or something.

as for your disdain for DO's, well if that kind of stuff bothers you, then i don't even see why you had to make such a big deal about it on here anyway. fine, go somewhere else. not like we need to beg for you to come here.

 

[FBIprofiler]

From face transplant post..

"CRNA/SRNA did face transplant case" at CCF


Why not a resident?

 

[isoman2000]

Deleted for trolling.

 

[narcusprince]

That is a ball face lie.

 

[SexPanther]

From face transplant post..

"CRNA/SRNA did face transplant case" at CCF


Why not a resident?

From an anesthetic perspective, probably not very challenging and not a good learning opportunity for the resident. Incredibly boring.

 

[huktonfonix]

That is a ball face lie.

Uhhhh........ball face? THat must be one wierd lie.

 

[DO4lifer]

Uhhhh........ball face? THat must be one wierd lie.

probably because it was well-rounded?

 

[Kid Sister]

From face transplant post..

"CRNA/SRNA did face transplant case" at CCF


Why not a resident?

no, the resident on call did it. then they were relieved by a crna and then the rumors got started.

 

[isoman2000]

Deleted for trolling.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I heard about this blog from a classmate. I interviewed at Cleveland Clinic and think some of these things ring true from talking with residents. This is bad, to think CRNAs have so much pull at such a large program. Also, there are too many FMGs and DOs at this program. I don't bash either group, but other programs I am interested in have far fewer of each.

I was interviewed by a DO resident and another DO resident was interviewing that day too. I'm sure they must be exceptions to the stereotype, but I didn't kick ass on the MCAT, Step I, and Step II to have someone who couldn't get into an Allopathic Medical School quiz me about why I'm a good pick.

Given the blog starting this chain, the power of CRNAs, and the FMG and DO numbers at Cleveland Clinic I think I'm losing interest. Does this make any sense or am I over-analyzing the whole thing?

Read this post carefully. Your MCAT, FLEX, USMLE, BOARD EXAM SCORES, etc. don't mean much in the real word. As JPP and Ex-Mil MD will tell you what matters are the ability to apply knowledge (patients don't come with multiple choice), proficiency, speed and amicability (think of it as Anesthesia's version of DRINKABILITY).

Those tests are the minimum standards used to accomplish a goal. You needed a certain score to Pass. Yes, you did well but now the focus is on patient care, case load and learning your craft. So, can an FMG or DO who barely passed those "exams" interview you? Hell, yes. In the future these same people may be the one's hiring you or promoting you. On top of that these DO or FMG's may teach you more about "getting er done" than any book or lecture.

Your Residency Program is very important. But, you need to look at case mix, Regional, Echo, Critical Care, etc. TEACHING is much more than pedigree. What will make you better as a Clinician is VOLUME/REPITITION. Some of my BEST teachers at a TOP TEN PROGRAM were FMG's.

Yes, the Mayo Residents score higher on the In-Service Exam? But, is that all that matters? No. You only need to PASS the exam (a nice cushion helps). So, please look at all the other factors in a Residency Program when making a decision.

 

[Psai]

Just stumbled onto this thread but I was wondering what people think of this program now.

 

[amyl]

Ccf is an awesome program and an awesome clinical experience. Np will back me up on this

 

[narcusprince]

Ccf is a great program second to none....... Pgg will back me up.

 

[pgg]

It's what I heard on the internet

 

[zizzer]

I love the program overall, but I've noticed there is a larger than normal CRNA presence there. They seem to always be pushing to do more cases. Is this much of a problem for residents? What is the relationship like between the departments and how does the department of anesthesiology respond to this?

 

[amyl]

Are you serious? The volume at Ccf is so huge... My cardiac numbers, liver transplants, Regional, etc numbers would impress you. There is no lack of vast, complex clinical experience there. If you want to go home at three everyday look elsewhere

 

[narcusprince]

First yes there is a crna program there but thats anesthesia get used to working with them. Second what your trying to word is how do the different departments get along I would say very good. Thirdly the patients are the sickest I have ever seen even now 4-5 years in practice nothing comes close to those patients at ccf. Lastly ccf has excellant systems in place, a huge ton of intellectual property that I am realizing their true function today 4 years away. If I could go back I would look at some of the major issues we face flalying emr, broken preop system, decision support. I wish they would create a informatics fellowship.

 

[GaseousClay]

First yes there is a crna program there but thats anesthesia get used to working with them. Second what your trying to word is how do the different departments get along I would say very good. Thirdly the patients are the sickest I have ever seen even now 4-5 years in practice nothing comes close to those patients at ccf. Lastly ccf has excellant systems in place, a huge ton of intellectual property that I am realizing their true function today 4 years away. If I could go back I would look at some of the major issues we face flalying emr, broken preop system, decision support. I wish they would create a informatics fellowship.

I don't care how big a program is and how great their case load is, if there is a huge CRNA school there avoid like the plague. I know a very recent grad from cleveland clinic who told me that yes the CRNAs rule over residents and SRNAs do get preference at times over residents. Even ONE time a SRNA gets preference is enough for me to not be interested in the program. I heard the same about USC when I applied but apparently that is no longer the case. If you have other options then I would avoid any programs with big CRNA schools. If your choices are limited then just have to accept it. Narcusprince theres a diff between getting used to working with CRNAs and training alongside them as your equals....

 

[narcusprince]

I know the difference between equals and collegues. In my experiance I never had a case stolen by an SRNA. In addition I had the oppurtunity to supervise a crna on Saturday call. Residency to some extent is what you make of it distinguish yourself, hone your craft, realize you can learn from EVERYONE( staff, fellow resident, crna, srna, janitor, anesthesia tech) you will be much happier. This is not a sky is falling argument.

 

[amyl]

I agree. I would like to know what Ccf grad said such a thing. How many years ago did he or she graduate - I can guess who it maybe was. Never happened to me, ever. No way. I was always given awesome cases and every request was honored- I suspect IF this ever happened it was because staff didn't trust said resident with a big case. The crnas were not treated equal at Ccf - as A senior resident I was sent to help them out often, I ran the board. They answered to me, not the other way around. Never. Respect is earned no matter where you are. I suspect narcusprince had the same experience as I did and will agree.

 

[GaseousClay]

I agree. I would like to know what Ccf grad said such a thing. How many years ago did he or she graduate - I can guess who it maybe was. Never happened to me, ever. No way. I was always given awesome cases and every request was honored- I suspect IF this ever happened it was because staff didn't trust said resident with a big case. The crnas were not treated equal at Ccf - as A senior resident I was sent to help them out often, I ran the board. They answered to me, not the other way around. Never. Respect is earned no matter where you are. I suspect narcusprince had the same experience as I did and will agree.

this person graduated within the last 1-3 years. just saying its always a conflict of interest to train alongside SRNAs. esp at a big place like CCF where i bet CRNA propaganda is rampant behind the scenes. im sure having CRNAs there is absolutely necessary given the volume there but we need to stop training them, because yes they will bite the hand that feeds them.

 

[nimbus]

Forgive the snarkiness but I wonder if CCF-trained CRNAs also claim their training at "the clinic" was "second to none". Would be interesting to hear their perspective.

 

[pgg]

Forgive the snarkiness but I wonder if CCF-trained CRNAs also claim their training at "the clinic" was "second to none". Would be interesting to hear their perspective.

If I ever hear a CRNA start a sentence with "ya know, the way we do this at the clinic ...." I think my brain might collapse into a world-destroying singularity.

 

[narcusprince]

You know PGG they have one heck of a cardiac fellowship...... Second to none....... Congrats btw!

 

[pgg]

You know PGG they have one heck of a cardiac fellowship...... Second to none....... Congrats btw!

Thanks. Nice to finally get the OK from the Navy, but I'm not ready to spike the football and do my end zone dance yet. Still need to nail down a place to go.