Poll: Would you still pursue an MD/DO if the salary was capped at $100k?

[Lamel]

What the title says (this is for all types of physicians); average debt/tuition is still the same. Assume that other health professions (PA, NP) are maxed at 80k (just for argument's sake). Other non-medical fields/careers are just as they are now (no cap on income).

I know people will say cost of living is different etc., but too bad, it is just a hypothetical. I chose 100k because it is 90+ percentile for individual incomes in the USA.

A similar thread was made a few years back but I would like to know current opinions. For reference, it was a pretty even split in the last poll: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...uld-you-still-apply-to-medical-school.693430/

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[Planes2Doc]

Hell no!!!!!!

But the correct answer in pre-allo on SDN is always: I want to work for free, and anyone who wants to make money is evilllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.

 

[johnnytest]

No, I'd fall back on Engineering haha

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I'd do it.
I can be happy in Texas

 

[Planes2Doc]

This is actually a pretty bad question to ask before people have been exposed to medical school.

Pre-meds are so enthusiastic and excited. They think medical school will be super fun and interesting. But once reality sets in, well, I'm sure perspectives will change. It's crazy when you see these idealistic people enter medical school, and then watch them quickly die on the inside, and leave as a different person than they once were.

 

[Lamel]

This is actually a pretty bad question to ask before people have been exposed to medical school.

Pre-meds are so enthusiastic and excited. They think medical school will be super fun and interesting. But once reality sets in, well, I'm sure perspectives will change. It's crazy when you see these idealistic people enter medical school, and then watch them quickly die on the inside, and leave as a different person than they once were.

That was actually sort of my idea, to compare these pre-allo results with those of med students/residents/attendings (if someone was to make such a thread on those boards).

 

[claduva94]

Do we assume the cost of medical school remains the same? Or does it also decrease proportionally?

 

[Lamel]

Do we assume the cost of medical school remains the same? Or does it also decrease proportionally?

I mentioned it in my OP, average cost/debt same as it is now.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

This is actually a pretty bad question to ask before people have been exposed to medical school.

Pre-meds are so enthusiastic and excited. They think medical school will be super fun and interesting. But once reality sets in, well, I'm sure perspectives will change. It's crazy when you see these idealistic people enter medical school, and then watch them quickly die on the inside, and leave as a different person than they once were.

And wouldn't it be interesting to see if our votes remain the same after med school and residency?

 

[claduva94]

I mentioned it in my OP, average cost/debt same as it is now.

Sorry. Skimmed. I think it would depend. If I could pay off my debt rapidly, sure. If not, that is a big burden to take on.
Edit: Just did the math. Assuming a 7% interest range and allocation of 30% of wages to repayment of 200k in loans, it would take well over 15 years when you account for initial salary. Thats all very idealistic. I'd probably stick to engineering as well.

 

[Planes2Doc]

That was actually sort of my idea, to compare these pre-allo results with those of med students/residents/attendings (if someone was to make such a thread on those boards).

Good idea!

And wouldn't it be interesting to see if our votes remain the same after med school and residency?

I don't think you'll have to wait that long.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Good idea!



I don't think you'll have to wait that long.

Or after MS-2, or whatever. I was referring to the future in general.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Or after MS-2, or whatever. I was referring to the future in general.

Haha yeah I know. Sorry, I'm giving you a hard time... The changes actually take place pretty early during MS-1 for a lot of people. You'd be surprised at how quickly that idealism turns into "oh my god, what did I get myself into?"

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Haha yeah I know. Sorry, I'm giving you a hard time... The changes actually take place pretty early during MS-1 for a lot of people. You'd be surprised at how quickly that idealism turns into "oh my god, what did I get myself into?"

I appreciate your feedback!
A resident once told me that med school is a trap that's set specifically for naive yet ambitious and hard-working college students.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

What the title says (this is for all types of physicians); average debt/tuition is still the same. Assume that other health professions (PA, NP) are maxed at 80k (just for argument's sake). Other non-medical fields/careers are just as they are now (no cap on income).

I know people will say cost of living is different etc., but too bad, it is just a hypothetical. I chose 100k because it is 90+ percentile for individual incomes in the USA.

A similar thread was made a few years back but I would like to know current opinions. For reference, it was a pretty even split in the last poll: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...uld-you-still-apply-to-medical-school.693430/

No. If I still wanted "health professions," PA ftw in your scenario.

 

[mik30102]

No I would definitely not. I could make more as a pharmacist . Im already taking a huge finanical hit, but at least ill break even sometime in my late 40s.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Part of the job appeal is financial security: no matter how bad the debt is, (for medical school at least; I don't know about top 10 private UG + top 10 med school...) it will be paid off eventually.

 

[Ismet]

Pre-meds are so enthusiastic and excited. They think medical school will be super fun and interesting. But once reality sets in, well, I'm sure perspectives will change. It's crazy when you see these idealistic people enter medical school, and then watch them quickly die on the inside, and leave as a different person than they once were.

+10000. It's amusing watching the MS1's during orientation. They have SO MUCH energy and enthusiasm for everything.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

+10000. It's amusing watching the MS1's during orientation. They have SO MUCH energy and enthusiasm for everything.

Maybe they're excited about the free food

A lot of us do expect a difficult journey. Even as a pre-med, if you've spent time in the ER of a county hospital, and/or a unit such as hematology/oncology you should realize that stressful times are coming. Can it equate with the experiences of med school and beyond? Of course not, but we can accumulate enough exposure to enter med school somewhat less naive.

 

[Ismet]

Maybe they're excited about the free food

A lot of us do expect a difficult journey. Even as a pre-med, if you've spent time in the ER of a county hospital, and/or a unit such as hematology/oncology you should realize that stressful times are coming. Can it equate with the experiences of med school and beyond? Of course not, but we can accumulate enough exposure to enter med school somewhat less naive.

Oh I think they know it'll be hard, we all did. But med school has a way of wearing you down and making you a different person. I remember talking to some friends in my class after we finished MS1, and we felt like we aged way way more than just 10 months.

I'm not miserable by any means (except for when I was studying for boards lol), I'm actually quite happy. No regrets. The newbies just have a completely different demeanor. I was no different from them 2 years ago, it's just interesting to see the progression.

 

[prettyNURSEtoMD]

Yes, I most definitely would.

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

How did 35% of the voters say "yes"? That population doesn't deserve to be accepted to medical school. Too stupid and naive to know what they are signing up for.

 

[DarknightX]

Absolutely not.

 

[Doctor Dream]

Wayyyyyyy too much school, training and debt for that kind of salary. Not only that but imagine being an attending putting in 80+ hour work weeks and netting <100k. No way it'd work out, no matter how much I love my job.

I'm curious to hear the rationale of the people who answered yes

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

How did 35% of the voters say "yes"? That population doesn't deserve to be accepted to medical school. Too stupid and naive to know what they are signing up for.

Really?
So you're drawing this conclusion based on an SDN poll?!
I voted yes. So now I don't deserve to be accepted to medical school?! It's totally fine to disagree with ppl, but such "you don't deserve to be in med school" remarks when someone has a different perspective on an SDN poll are really out of line.

Would I do a surgical specialty for 100k a year? Most likely not. PM&R or Peds EM, sure why not? 100k for working 45 hrs a week (and a lighter residency compared to other fields) sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[artvandelay786]

 

[Pattycake25]

I have to be honest, I think the biggest reason why people pick "yes" is a lack of familiarity with NPs/PAs. You cap my salary as a physician at 125% that of an NP, and make me keep the hellish path I'm on today? No thanks.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Wayyyyyyy too much school, training and debt for that kind of salary. Not only that but imagine being an attending putting in 80+ hour work weeks and netting <100k. No way it'd work out, no matter how much I love my job.

I'm curious to hear the rationale of the people who
answered yes

Insane trolly thread.

However I said yes.

I will be in very little debt as it is.

So 100 k would be fine. Could live fine off that. I want to do primary care anyway. Won't even make much more then that as it is.

If your only motivation is money then you will have a very unhappy life.

 

[EMDO2018]

This is actually a pretty bad question to ask before people have been exposed to medical school.

Pre-meds are so enthusiastic and excited. They think medical school will be super fun and interesting. But once reality sets in, well, I'm sure perspectives will change. It's crazy when you see these idealistic people enter medical school, and then watch them quickly die on the inside, and leave as a different person than they once were.

I was dead on the inside before I even entered.

 

[Lamel]

Insane trolly thread.

I don't think you know what a troll is.

How did 35% of the voters say "yes"? That population doesn't deserve to be accepted to medical school. Too stupid and naive to know what they are signing up for.

A pre-med casting harsh judgment on who deserves to be a doctor, amazing.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I don't think you know what a troll is.



A pre-med casting harsh judgment on who deserves to be a doctor, amazing.

Asking pre meds about future salaries is silly and trolly IMO

 

[Lamel]

Asking pre meds about future salaries is silly and trolly IMO

It is a hypothetical thread to gauge how important salary may be to pre-meds when deciding to choose medicine. 100k is still a high salary in absolute terms. The attitude that salary discussions should be ignored is detrimental.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

It is a hypothetical thread to gauge how important salary may be to pre-meds when deciding to choose medicine. 100k is still a high salary in absolute terms. The attitude that salary discussions should be ignored is detrimental.

We are a long way to that point. This isnt constructive in any way

 

[Lamel]

We are a long way to that point. This isnt constructive in any way

So you wouldn't think about future financial potential when deciding to commit to a 7+ year professional education track? The point of the poll is just to see how much pre-meds want it (or think they want it).

Agree to disagree I suppose, you don't have to participate in the thread.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

We are a long way to that point. This isnt constructive in any way

Define "constructive" in terms of an SDN poll. It's perfectly reasonable to ask how much of a role salary plays in a career decision. Also, 100k is not exactly poverty.

 

[The Buff OP]

For free, I would even go and volunteer to Liberia right now. lol

 

[Gauss44]

It might be difficult to pay back medical school + undergraduate student loans on that little of a salary.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

It might be difficult to pay back medical school + undergraduate student loans on that little of a salary.

Yup, it is difficult if you want to live like someone that makes 100k (with no debt). So essentially, you're living with a fellow's salary (approximately) until your loans are paid off.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

So you wouldn't think about future financial potential when deciding to commit to a 7+ year professional education track? The point of the poll is just to see how much pre-meds want it (or think they want it).

Agree to disagree I suppose, you don't have to participate in the thread.

Define "constructive" in terms of an SDN poll. It's perfectly reasonable to ask how much of a role salary plays in a career decision. Also, 100k is not exactly poverty.

You are predicting income for something that is many years away. Useless in my opinion. You get what you get.

 

[Gauss44]

Cost of living is relevant to OP's question. I think Boston, SF, and NYC have the highest rents.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

You are predicting income for something that is many years away. Useless in my opinion. You get what you get.

This is not a prediction.

Physician salaries will not be capped at 100k anytime in the future.

 

[Gauss44]

Yup, it is difficult if you want to live like someone that makes 100k (with no debt). So essentially, you're living with a fellow's salary (approximately) until your loans are paid off.

And consider cost of living if you must live near family in NYC and pay your own rent, other expenses (not all doctors are healthy and might have large medical expenses), etc. Some people might be priced out for matters beyond their control.

 

[Ismet]

You are predicting income for something that is many years away. Useless in my opinion. You get what you get.

Meh, just let it be. I'm not a fan of improbable hypothetical scenarios either, but some people like to think about what they would do if _______.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

And consider cost of living if you must live near family in NYC and pay your own rent, other expenses (not all doctors are healthy and might have large medical expenses), etc. Some people might be priced out for matters beyond their control.

True. A 100k cap would significantly alter the circumstances for many (which is why I mentioned living in Texas earlier in the thread).
I live in Manhattan. Ppl who make 65k a year (in this borough) live in shoeboxes. But for many, it's a choice. They could own a home if they decided to live in a different state.

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

A pre-med casting harsh judgment on who deserves to be a doctor, amazing.

It's not harsh judgement its common sense. It's not like you take in 100,000 a year. There's something called federal taxes. State taxes. Social security. Medicare. Malpractice insurance. Living expenses. Family expenses. And this is while you racked up all the hundreds of thousands of debt and went through intense educating the past several years during the prime years of your life.

 

[Lamel]

It's not harsh judgement its common sense. It's not like you take in 100,000 a year. There's something called federal taxes. State taxes. Social security. Medicare. Malpractice insurance. Living expenses. Family expenses. And this is while you racked up all the hundreds of thousands of debt and went through intense educating the past several years during the prime years of your life.

Yes, those things undoubtedly exist, and the point of the poll is to see how much people would take this into account. How does it make them less deserving of becoming physicians?

 

[Beargryllz]

I have to be honest, I think the biggest reason why people pick "yes" is a lack of familiarity with NPs/PAs. You cap my salary as a physician at 125% that of an NP, and make me keep the hellish path I'm on today? No thanks.

Why not just quit?

You don't have to suffer through life, you know

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Meh, just let it be. I'm not a fan of improbable hypothetical scenarios either, but some people like to think about what they would do if _______.

And if I were a billionaire, I'd buy a baseball team.
These hypotheticals are harmless. And in many cases, ppl answer them on the fly. I don't understand why some get so heated about stuff like this.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Meh, just let it be. I'm not a fan of improbable hypothetical scenarios either, but some people like to think about what they would do if _______.

Idk this thread is pins and needles to me.

Is it OK to post a thread would you still buy a car if it you could only buy a 30 k car.

I mean this thread is better then would you still go to med if you had zero debt (what?)

That's setting the bar very low though

I liked your post about not making the thread

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

And if I were a billionaire, I'd buy a baseball team.
These hypotheticals are harmless. And in many cases, ppl answer them on the fly. I don't understand why some get so heated about stuff like this.

Drinking my own urine is harmless. Why don't I go to do that to?