Poll: Would you still pursue an MD/DO if the salary was capped at $100k?

[Cyberdyne 101]

I can't believe the ratio isn't higher (as in more nays)...

I was expecting ~80/20 within 24 hrs. We're closing in on that.
I mean, there's always the "less conventional" minority. That should be expected.

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[RogueUnicorn]

I agree there is nothing wrong with wanting to have a fair compensation.

However if I was an average working american working two jobs to make ends meat how do you think I would feel? You think this puts physicians in a positive light seeing then scoff at a 100 k salary? If I was that american I would be pissed and wouldn't want to hear your argument about the money or time you spent to get there (no matter how logical it is). I would be pissed. Someone complaining about earning a salary out of reach of many Americans sounds greedy.

I agree its perfectly fair for physicians to be fairly compensated. However its not something we must talk about. Even worse is when we make a pointless thread mocking a fictional cap that will never happen which is out of reach of many Americans who can't even find a job.

That's nice but I wouldn't really care whether you, hypothetical average working American, are pissed or not. You're not at my level intellectually. Too bad for you.

 

[Zelda840]

Wow.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

That's nice but I wouldn't really care whether you, hypothetical average working American, are pissed or not. You're not at my level intellectually. Too bad for you.

Wow. You're gonna be a great doctor no doubt.

 

[blackkrim]

What the title says (this is for all types of physicians); average debt/tuition is still the same. Assume that other health professions (PA, NP) are maxed at 80k (just for argument's sake). Other non-medical fields/careers are just as they are now (no cap on income).

I know people will say cost of living is different etc., but too bad, it is just a hypothetical. I chose 100k because it is 90+ percentile for individual incomes in the USA.

A similar thread was made a few years back but I would like to know current opinions. For reference, it was a pretty even split in the last poll: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...uld-you-still-apply-to-medical-school.693430/

If I didn't have a family to care for (and didn't intend to start one), I may still choose medicine. Personally, money isn't a big deal to me beyond having enough to pay rent, food, retirement savings, and modest entertainment expenses. I'd have to do the math to see if fulfilling those latter conditions were actually feasible, though.

However, I could never drag my family into the penury your specific situation would cause. I wouldn't mind if medicine paid $100k (like it does in some countries) as long as we also saw a commensurate reduction in student debt.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Not with that kind of tuition that lead to 250k+ student debt... If the debt was less than half of that (100k), I would still pursue that MD...

 

[cbrons]

no


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[BestDoctorEver]

@DoctorSynthesis ...This is the pre-allo--it is where the god-like complex is still alive.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

How many of the yes folks have 1) been responsible for themselves or others financially 2) held a job outside of school 3) holds an overly romanticized view of what a physician is/does?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

How many of the yes folks have 1) been responsible for themselves or others financially 2) held a job outside of school 3) holds an overly romanticized view of what a physician is/does?

The poll question is actually pretty broad. There are several medical specialities that are lifestyle friendly.
(With the possible exception of @The Buff OP I don't think anyone volunteered to be a transplant surgeon for 100k a year). Also, you should take into account that some ppl (as mentioned earlier by another poster) are minimalists.

 

[The Buff OP]

The poll question is actually pretty broad. There are several medical specialities that are lifestyle friendly.
(With the possible exception of @The Buff OP I don't think anyone volunteered to be a transplant surgeon for 100k a year). Also, you should take into account that some ppl (as mentioned earlier by another poster) are minimalists.

I'll do it. I don't mean to be cocky, but I think I'm one of a kind. It's sad to see that a lot of people care more about the money than the profession of being a person who helps people. I can't see myself doing anything else but being a doctor (porn star got crossed off my list). If my immigrants parents raised a family of six with a low salary, a 100k salary is a luxury.

 

[knv2u]

Would I still end up with $175,000 - $200,000+ in student loan debt?

Edited: I see you addressed the debt question, but it still varies tremendously among schools. I would need a number. On a $100k salary, it might be difficult to live and care for a family AND pay off medical school loans.

 

[knv2u]

Cost of living is relevant to OP's question. I think Boston, SF, and NYC have the highest rents.

No it's not. There are some areas of the country where you could live comfortably on a $100k and have money to throw at your medical school loans. In other places, you would be strained financially.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I'll do it. I don't meant to be cocky, but I think I'm one of a kind. It's sad to see that a lot of people care more about the money than the profession of being a person who helps people. I can't see myself doing anything else but being a doctor (porn star got crossed off my list). If my immigrants parents raised a family of six with a low salary, a 100k salary is a luxury.

Immigrant-check
Poverty-check
I even had chronic health problems to add to the madness. For me, making 75k+ with good health is a gold mine. But I understand why others have a different perspective, and I'm fine with that. Who knows, maybe in the future I'll share their view.

I just still don't get why so many are going off on the "yes voters."

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Immigrant-check
Poverty-check
I even had chronic health problems to add to the madness. For me, making 75k+ with good health is a gold mine. But I understand why others have a different perspective, and I'm fine with that. Who knows, maybe in the future I'll share their view.

I just still don't get why so many are going off on the "yes voters."

I'm not "going off on them," I just think some lack the framework to conceptualize that in the given scenario, they expend an extraordinary amount of time and effort over 7-10+ years and at the tail end of it a) many will work 60+ hours/week and most will work 50+ for b) possibly $4000/month post tax pay. The monthly loan payment on on $200-300k in student debt, especially after several years of IBR or forbearance, is a large number. As in possibly up to $50k or more in pretax income disappearing into the debt hole for 10 years post residency/fellowship. Or go to school for two years, take on much less debt, and still "help people."

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I'm not "going off on them," I just think some lack the framework to conceptualize that in the given scenario, they expend an extraordinary amount of time and effort over 7-10+ years and at the tail end of it a) many will work 60+ hours/week and most will work 50+ for b) possibly $4000/month post tax pay. The monthly loan payment on on $200-300k in student debt, especially after several years of IBR or forbearance, is a large number. As in possibly up to $50k or more in pretax income disappearing into the debt hole for 10 years post residency/fellowship. Or go to school for two years, take on much less debt, and still "help people."

Yeah, it's likely that some lack that framework. But others grasp the scenario better than you think and are still fine with it.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Wow. You're gonna be a great doctor no doubt.

ITT premeds telling M4s what kind of doctor they'll be

@DoctorSynthesis ...This is the pre-allo--it is where the god-like complex is still alive.

God-like? Please don't sell me short

 

[maxilofacial]

Because there is a lot of way to help people in the health field by not necessarily being a physician.

Can we ask, why become a physician if you can become pa/nurse/etc. for much less stress plus more time for you by still giving quality help to people...

 

[Holmwood]

It's sort of the norm in other countries (like Japan). Why not?

As long as I have enough money for living costs, a house, and my spoiled brats' education fees, I don't need anything else.


Unless you want to squander your money on space bingo, I'm not sure why you need more.

 

[Whatyousay]

It's sort of the norm in other countries (like Japan). Why not?

As long as I have enough money for living costs, a house, and my spoiled brats' education fees, I don't need anything else.

Because in other countries with higher degrees of socialization in education and medicine, many of the costs that American students/physicians are responsible for (tuition, malpractice premiums) are partially absorbed by the system.

Assuming everything else stays the same as posited by OP, it would literally be impossible to practice medicine in certain parts of the country without additional funding once you take into account the cost of medical liability, loan repayment, licensing/licensing exams (which can average out to at least a couple hundred dollars a year if you divide up the fees), overhead, etc. This isn't even including the opportunity cost of spending the best years of your life making -250k+ while you're in undergrad/med school and earning a pittance while you're working "80 hour" *wink wink* weeks in residency. God help anyone who wants to be fellowship-trained anything in neurosurgery.

If you're going to push physician salaries towards the scales seen in "socialized medicine," you better hope the rest of the system gets pulled along with it. Even after the crapshoot that was preclinicals and Step 1, I love medicine more than ever.... but I'm not going into a profession where my salary is arbitrarily capped, all while I'm still at risk for being sued for money I don't have and trying to pay back loans with money I don't make.

https://www.health.ny.gov/health_ca...s/2011-10-17_medical_malpractice_premiums.pdf
http://www.amednews.com/article/20100503/profession/305039938/4/

Insurance premiums in Illinois (Cook, Madison, St. Clair counties)

Ob-gyns: $178,291
General surgeons: $127,083
Internists: $41,066

Obviously those are some extreme examples, but I can't think of too many fields that are expected to not insignificant portion of their salary on malpractice/liability insurance (even if we assume a more benign figure like 5k for low risk specialties, that would still be 5% of your yearly income @ 100k).

If you can find a way to squeeze in cup ramen into your budget on top of a mortgage and the kiddo's college bill, you probably should have gone into accounting.

 

[Holmwood]

Because in other countries with higher degrees of socialization in education and medicine, many of the costs that American students/physicians are responsible for (tuition, malpractice premiums) are partially absorbed by the system.

Assuming everything else stays the same as posited by OP, it would literally be impossible to practice medicine in certain parts of the country without additional funding once you take into account the cost of medical liability, loan repayment, licensing/licensing exams (which can average out to at least a couple hundred dollars a year if you divide up the fees), overhead, etc. This isn't even including the opportunity cost of spending the best years of your life making -250k+ while you're in undergrad/med school and earning a pittance while you're working "80 hour" *wink wink* weeks in residency. God help anyone who wants to be fellowship-trained anything in neurosurgery.

If you're going to push physician salaries towards the scales seen in "socialized medicine," you better hope the rest of the system gets pulled along with it. Even after the crapshoot that was preclinicals and Step 1, I love medicine more than ever.... but I'm not going into a profession where my salary is arbitrarily capped, all while I'm still at risk for being sued for money I don't have and trying to pay back loans with money I don't make.

https://www.health.ny.gov/health_ca...s/2011-10-17_medical_malpractice_premiums.pdf
http://www.amednews.com/article/20100503/profession/305039938/4/


Obviously those are some extreme examples, but I can't think of too many fields that are expected to not insignificant portion of their salary on malpractice/liability insurance (even if we assume a more benign figure like 5k for low risk specialties, that would still be 5% of your yearly income @ 100k).

If you can find a way to squeeze in cup ramen into your budget on top of a mortgage and the kiddo's college bill, you probably should have gone into accounting.

Well no one can practice medicine bankrupt can they? Haha!

So my assumption was that we already had a system that allows for 100k salaries to be sustainable and reasonable. The caveat being that it is roughly the same salary as PAs and Engineers (as others have pointed out). Within the context, I wouldn't mind a reduced salary.

Still that's not what the OP's looking for. I realize that now. Op, you cray cray.

 

[Whatyousay]

Well no one can practice medicine bankrupt can they? Haha!

So my assumption was that we already had a system that allows for 100k salaries to be sustainable and reasonable. The caveat being that it is roughly the same salary as PAs and Engineers (as others have pointed out). Within the context, I wouldn't mind a reduced salary.

Still that's not what the OP's looking for. I realize that now. Op, you cray cray.

Hey, I'm sure there would be a few physicians who would be willing to take a 100k salary if it meant they never had to deal with ICD-9 billing codes ever again...

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Well no one can practice medicine bankrupt can they? Haha!

So my assumption was that we already had a system that allows for 100k salaries to be sustainable and reasonable. The caveat being that it is roughly the same salary as PAs and Engineers (as others have pointed out). Within the context, I wouldn't mind a reduced salary.

Still that's not what the OP's looking for. I realize that now. Op, you cray cray.

Lol- I don't think @Lamel was taking it that far. I just assumed malpractice was covered under his scenario.

 

[maxilofacial]

Hey, I'm sure there would be a few physicians who would be willing to take a 100k salary if it meant they never had to deal with ICD-9 billing codes ever again...

I know some in my area that are starting to impliment the ICD 10 and they are willing to give their left nut in order to not deal with that system.

 

[Whatyousay]

Lol- I don't think @Lamel was taking it that far. I just assumed malpractice was covered under his scenario.

I think we could all make 100k go pretty far if we just wave off the the costs associated with the profession

 

[Narmerguy]

I wouldn't, but that's because I have plenty of other interests besides being a physician and would be pretty easily swayed to some of those if the pay for medicine were capped at such a low level. For others, if they have low debt and can't imagine anything for themselves other than medicine, I could see them doing it. It's not terribly different from PhD degrees, especially for students in non STEM fields.

 

[fellowstudent92]

^I must say. Your application on MDapps is killer.

 

[fellowstudent92]

Yea I'd be able to squeak out a near 39 or 40 if I had two more years to study for it and a 3.9ish but all his activities are INSANE. Congrats to him.

 

[The Buff OP]

Immigrant-check
Poverty-check
I even had chronic health problems to add to the madness. For me, making 75k+ with good health is a gold mine. But I understand why others have a different perspective, and I'm fine with that. Who knows, maybe in the future I'll share their view.

I just still don't get why so many are going off on the "yes voters."

When I use to live in Mexico as a kid I also live in poverty. I remember when my parents didn't even had a couple of pesos to give me for school. Our Maserati was a bike with an extra seat that was welded to the back of the bike.

IDK I heard a lot of these SDN peeps live in a bubble (rants incoming in 3 2 1...). Maybe they grew up with money and they need a high earning job to fulfill their living lifestyles. I know I'm not doing it for the money, but I would accept the high income to pay off my loans and provide a nice future for my niños.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I think we could all make 100k go pretty far if we just wave off the the costs associated with the profession

After taxes and loan payments, I was assuming taking home ~60-65k under Lamel's hypothetical. Obviously, he wasn't giving a scenario that would leave you with -$150,000.

 

[Frazier]

Would you still pursue an MD/DO if the salary was capped at $100k?

Absolutely not.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Because there is a lot of way to help people in the health field by not necessarily being a physician.

Can we ask, why become a physician if you can become pa/nurse/etc. for much less stress plus more time for you by still giving quality help to people...

This is kinda like asking why do IM when you can possibly make more with pm&r and work less hours (and have a lighter residency). The person who chooses IM would likely respond by saying that IM suits them better for various reasons. The same likely applies to the "yes voters" in this poll.

 

[moisne]

Only if my work hours are capped at 40 hr/wi and I am given a stipend through med school. I made more prior to med school than that number...

Edit: also malpractice no longer exist or at least make it hell to file and insurance drops like mad.

 

[Medstart108]

What the title says (this is for all types of physicians); average debt/tuition is still the same. Assume that other health professions (PA, NP) are maxed at 80k (just for argument's sake). Other non-medical fields/careers are just as they are now (no cap on income).

I know people will say cost of living is different etc., but too bad, it is just a hypothetical. I chose 100k because it is 90+ percentile for individual incomes in the USA.

A similar thread was made a few years back but I would like to know current opinions. For reference, it was a pretty even split in the last poll: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...uld-you-still-apply-to-medical-school.693430/

Maybe if the hours were reduced and if you basically hit the cap immediately out of residency. Otherwise, probably not.