Popular blog post - harsh reality of vet med

[lailanni]

https://ocrtrivet.wordpress.com/201...f-vet-med-what-the-world-needs-to-understand/

This recent blog post has caused a bit of discussion and generated many shares among my peers. Feel free to give it a read. While it's not especially heartening, I'm an advocate for going into the profession eyes wide open. This blog post is not representative of every vet but I would say it's pretty accurate for many.

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[Gwenevre]

That's been floating around my feed as well. I think it's good to have a first-hand account of a day in the life of GP.

 

[Skimble]

Thanks for posting that! I think it actually helped me be better prepared to answer interview questions on why I want to be a vet.

 

[battie]

I feel people should read this, even to just get a general perspective. I started classes today, and in my endocrinology class, a junior pre-vet girl said that she plans to go into only equine medicine because they and specialists make the most money in the profession. The way she said it kind of rubbed me the wrong way because she made it sound as if it was the only smart route and that it would be easy for her to get. Her tone just suggested to me that she doesn't have a good grasp on the debt:income ratio of vets in general.

 

[Gwenevre]

I feel people should read this, even to just get a general perspective. I started classes today, and in my endocrinology class, a junior pre-vet girl said that she plans to go into only equine medicine because they and specialists make the most money in the profession. The way she said it kind of rubbed me the wrong way because she made it sound as if it was the only smart route and that it would be easy for her to get. Her tone just suggested to me that she doesn't have a good grasp on the debt:income ratio of vets in general.

I wonder if her opinion will change when she's a junior vet student

 

[Country_roads]

I feel people should read this, even to just get a general perspective. I started classes today, and in my endocrinology class, a junior pre-vet girl said that she plans to go into only equine medicine because they and specialists make the most money in the profession. The way she said it kind of rubbed me the wrong way because she made it sound as if it was the only smart route and that it would be easy for her to get. Her tone just suggested to me that she doesn't have a good grasp on the debt:income ratio of vets in general.

I've seen this attitude in a plethora of both pre-vet as well as veterinary students

I don't know if this level of pretentiousness is rampant across the whole professional world, but it seems like a freakin' epidemic in this one

 

[Minnerbelle]

For anyone considering vet school, I highly recommend getting to know clinicians with different levels of experience in different settings and asking them how they feel about their career/profession in the context of helping you figure out if it's for you, instead of just following them around as a shadow/volunteer. Reading this blog post, I realized that when I have shadows and even pre-vet staff, they mostly only see the interesting parts of my job. You know, the "why don't you go to treatment/surgery where there's something more interesting going on, i need to sit down and complete records and phone calls."

To an extent, they see some of the difficult client interactions and financial issues, but quite honestly that's not a huge factor in what makes me miserable. And the thing is, it's never just one or two things that I can clearly identify. It's like a hundred little things that are ever present that makes me feel trapped. You might see a tantrum by the b*****iest client and think, wow that's not fun dealing with crazies - sometimes it's hard to be a vet. No it's not fun, and yeah it sucks. But what's going on in my head is, "ugh, not only did she put a damper on things and get me behind schedule, I know this isn't the last I'm going to hear about. And now I need to go log this client comm to cover my bases. We need to figure out what to do about how abusive she was to the receptionist. I need to move on to the next case... oh dear it's an 18 year old vomiting cat that hasn't been to the vet in 5 years. Awesome, I was hoping for a healthy annual to help get me caught up. And what is this vague note on my desk about needing to call this client ASAP?"

All the little worries, compounded by all the little peeves, with so many limitations on what you can do, and the unpredictable nature of what is going to come in and how people/pets respond to all the choices you make to make the best of the situation... and putting on a show day in and day out with a ton of pressures coming from many performance measures (e.g. Management, clients, medical outcome, production, staff, colleagues)... These are things that are very difficult to explain to someone, and difficult for anyone not experiencing it to grasp.

One thing that I wish I had known was how unregulated vet med is, and how much that plays into my stress level. There's like no such thing as standard of care... yet there is... and that can be very uncomfortable.

It's rare that you can practice medicine the way it should be. That I knew all along. But what I didn't realize was how hard it is to not let that cause me anguish. It's hard to stick to your conviction that you are doing right by the patient and client to the best of your abilities with the limitations set. Because I need to make so many decisions on which corners to cut (even if the ball is ultimately in the client's court), it's really hard not to second guess yourself, blame yourself when it turns out that the other decision was better, not to take it personally if the client regrets the decision and doesn't realize hindsight is 20/20, etc... It's actually not too often that these things actually result in a tangible negative outcome. But when you're put into these situations over and over day in and day out, it weighs down on you. I'm sure there is an element of this being due to the fact that I'm a new grad, but I know experienced clinicians that feel the same way.

I do try to separate out my issues that are 'new grad' problems as uncomfortable growing pains, because hopefully in a couple years it will go away. But boy, do they add to stress!

All of this, and I *think* I'm still pretty happy being a vet. I'm hoping I continue to feel this sentiment.

 

[battie]

For anyone considering vet school, I highly recommend getting to know clinicians with different levels of experience in different settings and asking them how they feel about their career/profession in the context of helping you figure out if it's for you, instead of just following them around as a shadow/volunteer.

Thankfully, I got really good look with my last clinic how it is to be the owner of a one doctor clinic. Hands down made me decide to never, ever own my own clinic. Granted, this specific owner and clinic were kind of unique, at least in my geographical area. The doctor had gone to school in Egypt, moved to the UK to practice, then came here. The clinic is only two years old and the turn over rate of techs and assistants at about 3.5 months. I only lasted 6 months because she new that I was trying into vet school. I would have been gone sooner if I wasn't. She had inconsistent policies that made the reception portion of the program super difficult, especially since I had no reception experience before this. Back room stuff, working in the exam room with clients, all that stuff, super consistent and great. I can't even imagine the stress that owning and opening a vet clinic entails.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

This is the second clinic owner/vet I've worked for, and I can also say that (should I never make it into zoo med), I also never want to own a clinic. 7 day weeks, being on call for emergencies for your clients, dealing with staff, financial stresses, and more push me away.

I've worked for vets who didn't want to be vets, vets who love it, and vets who don't give a damn and just come in for work and leave at the end of the day.

I feel people should read this, even to just get a general perspective. I started classes today, and in my endocrinology class, a junior pre-vet girl said that she plans to go into only equine medicine because they and specialists make the most money in the profession. The way she said it kind of rubbed me the wrong way because she made it sound as if it was the only smart route and that it would be easy for her to get. Her tone just suggested to me that she doesn't have a good grasp on the debt:income ratio of vets in general.

I've also heard so many classmates have rose-colored glasses on when they talk about wanting to be a vet and how they KNOW they can cure the diseases that plague the profession and how they are certain they will rise to the top of the profession salary-wise. Sometimes I'm like "I don't understand. I can honestly say that I have never been that misguided about this profession." However, I've done a lot of homework on it for years, done the whole "variety of experience with a variety of vets" thing, and I typically think logically as opposed to emotionally. I just shake my head.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Just wondering if anyone read this and thought "wow, this is a poorly-run/understaffed clinic".

if you are a one-vet practice, then I can see this kind of workload, but in most of the clinics i have seen, the level of workload this vet discussed would be an outlier (as in, it happens occasionally, but is not the norm, and shouldn't be portrayed that way). If you are triple-quadruple booking someone, then you need more than one vet on duty IMO, cause the clients are not going to end up being happy with the minimal interactions they will receive.

It made for an effective blog, but perhaps not reality. or I can be wrong. Happy to hear contrary opinions.

 

[toratora]

Just wondering if anyone read this and thought "wow, this is a poorly-run/understaffed clinic".

if you are a one-vet practice, then I can see this kind of workload, but in most of the clinics i have seen, the level of workload this vet discussed would be an outlier (as in, it happens occasionally, but is not the norm, and shouldn't be portrayed that way). If you are triple-quadruple booking someone, then you need more than one vet on duty IMO, cause the clients are not going to end up being happy with the minimal interactions they will receive.

It made for an effective blog, but perhaps not reality. or I can be wrong. Happy to hear contrary opinions.

Actually this happens to my clinic all the time and we are very well staffed. VERY WELL STAFFED.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Actually this happens to my clinic all the time and we are very well staffed. VERY WELL STAFFED.

I see squeeze ins all the time, but having a whole afternoon of multiple (>2) bookings as a regular way to do business?

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Just wondering if anyone read this and thought "wow, this is a poorly-run/understaffed clinic".

if you are a one-vet practice, then I can see this kind of workload, but in most of the clinics i have seen, the level of workload this vet discussed would be an outlier (as in, it happens occasionally, but is not the norm, and shouldn't be portrayed that way). If you are triple-quadruple booking someone, then you need more than one vet on duty IMO, cause the clients are not going to end up being happy with the minimal interactions they will receive.

It made for an effective blog, but perhaps not reality. or I can be wrong. Happy to hear contrary opinions.

It did actually cross my mind, too. Of course, even the well-run clinic have "those days." It happens. But I instantly thought "Did the receptionist clear these triple bookings with the doctor first? Did anyone attempt to reschedule the healthy pet appointments if the afternoon was looking that bad?" Every clinic is different, but if **** hits the fan, we've always tried to reschedule our afternoon appointments out of respect for the client's time.

I have worked for two clinics that cannot afford a second doctor (one could not even afford an LVT, and everyone was a receptionist/assistant), and it's not easy. We seemed to make it work better than this blogger's clinic, though. The blog writer definitely did say this is his/her average day. Perhaps the boss needs to hire on more staff. It sounds like it is a two-doctor clinic, but perhaps having a doctor do surgery and having appointments in the morning hours instead of just the afternoon might alleviate cramming in 30 clients in 5 hours.

 

[DVMDream]

I see squeeze ins all the time, but having a whole afternoon of multiple (>2) bookings as a regular way to do business?

Actually, yes this was normal where I worked too. And we had 3 doctors on staff and that still wasn't enough many days. 2 doctors for appointments and 1 for surgeries...

Heck, we had the times where we were at work until 10PM or later (we closed at 7PM).

 

[DVMDream]

Actually, yes this was normal where I worked too. And we had 3 doctors on staff and that still wasn't enough many days. 2 doctors for appointments and 1 for surgeries...

Heck, we had the times where we were at work until 10PM or later (we closed at 7PM).

Should say that the extra dr. does help some, but for a busy clinic, being double, triple and sometimes quadruple booked is normal.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Actually, yes this was normal where I worked too. And we had 3 doctors on staff and that still wasn't enough many days. 2 doctors for appointments and 1 for surgeries...

Heck, we had the times where we were at work until 10PM or later (we closed at 7PM).

This happened to me the other night, lol. You leave when the work is done. At least you had someone responsible for surgeries while appointments could be seen. The blogger didn't, and that's a whole chunk of time that could have been devoted to spreading those 30 appointments out. Are you in an area where there are few clinics? Or it just happens that you guys have a hectic schedule on a regular basis?

 

[DVMDream]

This happened to me the other night, lol. You leave when the work is done. At least you had someone responsible for surgeries while appointments could be seen. The blogger didn't, and that's a whole chunk of time that could have been devoted to spreading those 30 appointments out. Are you in an area where there are few clinics? Or it just happens that you guys have a hectic schedule on a regular basis?

Read her post again, she had surgeries that morning before appointments, so she could just do surgeries without worrying about appointments.

We just had a very busy schedule on a regular basis.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Read her post again, she had surgeries that morning before appointments, so she could just do surgeries without worrying about appointments.

We just had a very busy schedule on a regular basis.

I read it. I understand how her day is laid out. I'm trying to say that if you have one doctor devoted to that day's surgeries, say from 8-12, the second doctor can see appointments from opening-lunch. That way, you don't have 3-4 hours of surgery and 5 hours for appointments (as is the case for the blogger). You'd have surgery still, but then 8 or so hours for appointments, which is how things are run in your clinic (or so it seems by your post).

 

[toratora]

I see squeeze ins all the time, but having a whole afternoon of multiple (>2) bookings as a regular way to do business?

My clinic has 4 different doctors. Usually two doctors are scheduled per day. At each shift, there are 4 technicians, 2 kennel techs, and 4 receptionists.

When people call and they insist that they have a sick pet (even if it's an ear infection) and want to come in, or when walk-ins show up, or emergencies, you can't exactly say no. When I read this, I instantly thought, ****! Is this my clinic???

IMO collections is a big headache in small animal practice. It was interesting to read that it happens elsewhere as well. It's definitely one aspect I truly despise. At my clinic, we have a crazy cat lady who owes us 16K. All her cats are either FIV+ or have upper respiratory infections. I've had to deal with cases where people rush emergencies in telling us to do all that we can, we do our best (IV catheter placement, injections, etc), and at the end of it they're like "We didn't know we had to pay."

 

[WildZoo]

At my clinic, we have a crazy cat lady who owes us 16K. All her cats are either FIV+ or have upper respiratory infections.

The clinic I worked at had a similar problem. This lady had like 300 cats, but apparently you can't report them if they're seeking medical care.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

At my clinic, we have a crazy cat lady who owes us 16K.

I'm no business owner, but isn't it time to refuse to see her? The clinic is clearly taking a massive loss there.

I think this (not just you, of course) is where people get the idea that veterinarians are there to do charity work.

The clinic I worked at had a similar problem. This lady had like 300 cats, but apparently you can't report them if they're seeking medical care.

I think there are ways you can report. Most counties have laws placing limits on how many pets can be in one household, regardless of medical care. I'm sure there are loopholes around those laws (farms), but in general, they're pretty strict around here. Especially if there are children in the house.

 

[WildZoo]

I'm no business owner, but isn't it time to refuse to see her? The clinic is clearly taking a massive loss there.

I think this (not just you, of course) is where people get the idea that veterinarians are there to do charity work.

I think there are ways you can report. Most counties have laws placing limits on how many pets can be in one household, regardless of medical care. I'm sure there are loopholes around those laws (farms), but in general, they're pretty strict around here. Especially if there are children in the house.

She has a huge property. They are her cats but as far as I know she doesn't keep most of them on the house.
Someone else could probably report her anyway, but we weren't allowed to.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

She has a huge property. They are her cats but as far as I know she doesn't keep most of them on the house.
Someone else could probably report her anyway, but we weren't allowed to.

geez. We had a woman who started out feeding one stray on her porch. Within a year, there were somewhere around 50, and she kept feeding them all. She started having them spayed/neutered as the kittens came after basically being overrun and is just now making a dent. The local animal control officer was all over her though. She was never in legal trouble, but she just didn't foresee all of this happening from one bowl of food for one cat.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Just wondering if anyone read this and thought "wow, this is a poorly-run/understaffed clinic".

I admit, I puked a little inside at the thought of routinely seeing 10 minute appointments where a good number must have been sick/urgent if they were triple booking like that... I personally know at least one clinic that routinely runs like that, and I'm sure there are plenty of others... but I don't know how *normal* that is. It's definitely not normal for any of the clinics my vet school friends work at.

That being said, most if not all of the issues the blogger brought up are very real problems we all face on a daily basis. It's hard to pass judgment on the blogger's clinic without knowing a lot more about the practice, which is why I didn't say anything about it initially.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Definitely a lot about this clinic that was left out that could make a difference in the impression this post leaves me with. I'd like to see a follow-up blog post about this. The doctor has a picture of herself on the website, so it's not exactly anonymous. The doctor mentions in the comments that the area she is in is extremely underserved and causes the crazy days to be a regular occurrence. Another comment by the doctor says she has attempted to talk to the receptionists about how they schedule her day, but has been unsuccessful. Another comment seems to say the boss that the post mentioned "causes chaos" although it is vague and I don't want to assume. There's a lot of factors here that the doctor didn't address that are kind of relevant to some of her problems. These factors are probably seen in other clinics, as well.

 

[StartingoverVet]

My conclusion so far from reading these posts is:
1- some practices are run this way.
2-not all practices are run this way.

I want to say that well run practices are not run this way, but I am not sure whether it is fair to make that bold a statement. I will say, that if you are "under-charging" (or more accurately perhaps "pricing low"), you will be forced to cram in more appointments, but, personally, I don't like that style of practice to work at, or to be a client of, but that is unfortunately a reality in many areas. I guess I am used to practices in areas that can charge higher prices and not jam in as many clients as possible with as few vets as possible.

Whatever jobs I have held, I have always opted to the better service, higher price sort of companies, rather than the high volume low profit end, so that is my bias. And it is my bias I agree.

 

[DVMDream]

I read it. I understand how her day is laid out. I'm trying to say that if you have one doctor devoted to that day's surgeries, say from 8-12, the second doctor can see appointments from opening-lunch. That way, you don't have 3-4 hours of surgery and 5 hours for appointments (as is the case for the blogger). You'd have surgery still, but then 8 or so hours for appointments, which is how things are run in your clinic (or so it seems by your post).

I think you are still missing the point. She did surgeries in the morning (there might have been another doc there seeing appointments that morning, there might not have been that isn't made clear). Then she did appointments in the afternoon. Our surgery docs worked 7:30-7, doing the exact same thing... surgeries in AM, appointments in the afternoon. It is the same thing. Your post made it seem like appointments were coming in for her to see while she was doing surgery, and that isn't how it is read.

I don't think opening up appointments in the morning (if the bloggers clinic isn't already) will make a difference... she already stated herself in comments that the majority of their appointments come in after 5PM because that is when people get off work.

 

[DVMDream]

My conclusion so far from reading these posts is:
1- some practices are run this way.
2-not all practices are run this way.

I want to say that well run practices are not run this way, but I am not sure whether it is fair to make that bold a statement. I will say, that if you are "under-charging" (or more accurately perhaps "pricing low"), you will be forced to cram in more appointments, but, personally, I don't like that style of practice to work at, or to be a client of, but that is unfortunately a reality in many areas. I guess I am used to practices in areas that can charge higher prices and not jam in as many clients as possible with as few vets as possible.

Whatever jobs I have held, I have always opted to the better service, higher price sort of companies, rather than the high volume low profit end, so that is my bias. And it is my bias I agree.

We were one of the more expensive clinics. We did run efficiently, even being triple booked. Just because it is busy doesn't automatically make it inefficient. Yes, we had the occasional late day, or 40 minutes behind, as can happen anywhere. But we were regularly triple booked, actually a schedule that was only double booked was a slow day.

 

[Trilt]

We were one of the more expensive clinics. We did run efficiently, even being triple booked. Just because it is busy doesn't automatically make it inefficient. Yes, we had the occasional late day, or 40 minutes behind, as can happen anywhere. But we were regularly triple booked, actually a schedule that was only double booked was a slow day.

That sounds kind of horrific to me! We're saying that the doctor has three appointments booked per each time period, right? (15min? 20min?) How was that not insanely busy and stressful all the time? I couldn't imagine only having like 5 minutes with the client per appointment.

 

[k80rigs]

That sounds kind of horrific to me! We're saying that the doctor has three appointments booked per each time period, right? (15min? 20min?) How was that not insanely busy and stressful all the time? I couldn't imagine only having like 5 minutes with the client per appointment.

I wouldn't be a client there.....we never double book appts if we could help it. Client education is really important to our doctors and that needs adequate time and attention IMO.

 

[DVMDream]

That sounds kind of horrific to me! We're saying that the doctor has three appointments booked per each time period, right? (15min? 20min?) How was that not insanely busy and stressful all the time? I couldn't imagine only having like 5 minutes with the client per appointment.

Appointments were 20 minutes, 2 doctors to see appointments. It worked really well.

 

[DVMDream]

I wouldn't be a client there.....we never double book appts if we could help it. Client education is really important to our doctors and that needs adequate time and attention IMO.

Double booking isn't a big deal when you have 2 docs. It also helps if staff is trained to stagger appointments.... so that you alternate sick pet, then annual exam, sick pet, annual exam,

 

[DVMDream]

That sounds kind of horrific to me! We're saying that the doctor has three appointments booked per each time period, right? (15min? 20min?) How was that not insanely busy and stressful all the time? I couldn't imagine only having like 5 minutes with the client per appointment.

Also, you do adapt to it. It seems busy but when you know exactly what to do, who is doing what, etc. It works well, the key is communication with all staff at all times.

 

[k80rigs]

Double booking isn't a big deal when you have 2 docs. It also helps if staff is trained to stagger appointments.... so that you alternate sick pet, then annual exam, sick pet, annual exam,

Ahhhh. I thought you were referring to double booking one dr. That's fine then.

 

[DVMDream]

Ahhhh. I thought you were referring to double booking one dr. That's fine then.

Yeah we'd occasionally do a triple book too, especially if sx doc got done early, but much more than that and the techs would be spread thin.

 

[lhmhtd]

What are everyone's opinions of the reality of vet med beyond just companion animal general practice? The author obviously geared her post toward pre-vets wanting to pursue clinical practice (most aspiring vets want to do just that), but I wonder if it's the same ****ty job day in and day out for more specialized areas? For instance, I want to do anatomic pathology- there is much less client interaction and the animals are already dead, so frantic owners, dying patients, etc isn't a concern. I'm not naive- I'm sure there are downsides still as there are with everything, but I'd love to hear y'all's thoughts.

 

[DVMDream]

What are everyone's opinions of the reality of vet med beyond just companion animal general practice? The author obviously geared her post toward pre-vets wanting to pursue clinical practice (most aspiring vets want to do just that), but I wonder if it's the same ****ty job day in and day out for more specialized areas? For instance, I want to do anatomic pathology- there is much less client interaction and the animals are already dead, so frantic owners, dying patients, etc isn't a concern. I'm not naive- I'm sure there are downsides still as there are with everything, but I'd love to hear y'all's thoughts.

@WhtsThFrequency might be able to answer this this best.

 

[LetItSnow]

What are everyone's opinions of the reality of vet med beyond just companion animal general practice? The author obviously geared her post toward pre-vets wanting to pursue clinical practice (most aspiring vets want to do just that), but I wonder if it's the same ****ty job day in and day out for more specialized areas? For instance, I want to do anatomic pathology- there is much less client interaction and the animals are already dead, so frantic owners, dying patients, etc isn't a concern. I'm not naive- I'm sure there are downsides still as there are with everything, but I'd love to hear y'all's thoughts.

Tangent. I gotta say, I don't get how people can do necropsies all day. I'm glad some of you can. Super glad. But dealing with one dead animal after another was ... I dunno. I just couldn't do it. I hated that aspect of that rotation. I just felt like crap every day. Totally different than being in the hospital with some patients dying. Even the ones that you really get attached to and feel like crap about .... the next one is probably going to walk out alive. So it kinda breaks it up. But when literally every single one was some case that died that someone cared enough about to find out why.... ugh. Made me depressed.

 

[WildZoo]

What are everyone's opinions of the reality of vet med beyond just companion animal general practice? The author obviously geared her post toward pre-vets wanting to pursue clinical practice (most aspiring vets want to do just that), but I wonder if it's the same ****ty job day in and day out for more specialized areas? For instance, I want to do anatomic pathology- there is much less client interaction and the animals are already dead, so frantic owners, dying patients, etc isn't a concern. I'm not naive- I'm sure there are downsides still as there are with everything, but I'd love to hear y'all's thoughts.

I had the same question but about zoo med.
Though I've interned in a zoo hospital so I do have some idea. You never see everything though. Seemed like the docs there were always handling a ton of emails and paperwork, even though they did relatively few treatments per day compared to private practice.

 

[lhmhtd]

I work in the necropsy lab at UGA and LOOOOOOVVVE it. I actually thought I would dislike it, a lot. But it's awesome being able to put all the pieces together to figure out why a 3 year old cat just dropped dead, or why a wallaby was bleeding from his rectum for 4 days before kicking the can (ps, he had toxo). A couple of the residents have told me for all the schooling the pay is crap, but that's the most negative thing I've heard.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I can't peak for all specialties, but pathology is doing...meh. I mean, it's not bad. But there are still too few positions because people still aren't retiring. So that can force people into positio ns they dont really want. It's pretty much a given now in anatomic that you do a PhD after the residency if you want to stay in academia/teaching hospitals, unless you are somehow lucky enough to land a job at a diagnostics lab or in industry. So, while I do love love love my field because of all the cool things we do and see, it is long, hard path without a much better guarantee of a job. I am looking at a starting salary of 80-90k (will top off at 100 after a decade or so but still) after 7 years of post-vet school education (3 yrs residency, 4 PhD). Which yeah....hurts. As much as I like the field...that hurts. And yes, money IS important when it comes to job satisfaction, like it or not. Havent been able to even pay off the interest on my loans and they keeps rising because I have to put them in forbearance. I could go industry and earn more like 100-120...but looking at endless slides of rat lungs or whatever for someones toxicity study gets old fast.

Honestly, we don't do necropsies all day every day, LIS My necropsy duty was only afternoons, M-F, 1-2 weeks a month, scattered weekends. The rest of the time was biopsy, histology, molecular diagostics, etc. But there is definitely sadness there too. I was on call one Christrmas vacation for 10 straight days, and it was like everything decided to die. I was burned out a little by the end of that. Plus the abuse and legal cases...

I actually do have to deal with clients, many of them quite distraught, in my current position. When I was in residency at another institution, it was the emergency service that took in outside necropsy cases so I never talked to clients, only other clinicians. But here, it is the attending pathologist on call. So I do sometimes get upset owners calling me that they found the dog dead, or their horse dead, what could have happened, can they bring it in, how can they get it to me (we have a trucking service for large animals, etc). Then I have to call them with results, explain it, etc. So it varies where you go.

tl;dr Pathology is awesome. But yeah. Getting that good job is probably about the same as it is with other specialties and general medicine. It's rough everywhere. And everything gets boring after a while. First couple hemangiosarcs I saw were WHOOAA now it's like eh. Ok, cut it out, write it up. Etc. But I feel like people who do specialties are really into the job and tend to be happier overall. Just my opinion.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I work in the necropsy lab at UGA and LOOOOOOVVVE it. I actually thought I would dislike it, a lot. But it's awesome being able to put all the pieces together to figure out why a 3 year old cat just dropped dead, or why a wallaby was bleeding from his rectum for 4 days before kicking the can (ps, he had toxo). A couple of the residents have told me for all the schooling the pay is crap, but that's the most negative thing I've heard.

Two of my former resident-mates who just took boards went to UGA

I see your wallaby with toxo and raise you a lemur with toxo.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I am looking at a starting salary of 80-90k after 7 years of post-vet school education (3 yrs residency, 4 PhD). Which yeah....hurts. As much as I like the field...that hurts..

That is really really sad. I didn't realize it was that bad. I mean... I feel like they should pay you enough to at least account for your blooming debt due to forbearance from all the extra years of training. That's really shocking to me.

 

[LetItSnow]

Honestly, we don't do necropsies all day every day, LIS My necropsy duty was only afternoons, M-F, 1-2 weeks a month.

I totally get that. I know our residents and clinicians are on for two weeks at a time and then off (the floor) for at least a month. I just .... even only two week chunks, repeatedly regularly enough, would be too much for me. I'm super glad YOU can do it, because it's important and SOMEONE needs to, but I couldn't handle it. It wasn't even the abuse cases, or the stupid neighbor-shot-the-dog case, or the starved horse case, or that stuff. I mean, those bugged me too. But just doing an ordinary "old cat died of renal disease" kinda case got to me ... I'd spend the whole time necropsying the thing feeling bad about the whole situation, and it was tough for me to re-focus that thinking.

At least when a case ends poorly in the hospital ... once it's dead, I write up the paperwork and move on with life. I dunno. For whatever irrational reason, it's just easier for me to put the hospital cases in the rear-view mirror and not dwell on them. Most of them, anyway. Yanno?

 

[DVMDream]

I totally get that. I know our residents and clinicians are on for two weeks at a time and then off (the floor) for at least a month. I just .... even only two week chunks, repeatedly regularly enough, would be too much for me. I'm super glad YOU can do it, because it's important and SOMEONE needs to, but I couldn't handle it. It wasn't even the abuse cases, or the stupid neighbor-shot-the-dog case, or the starved horse case, or that stuff. I mean, those bugged me too. But just doing an ordinary "old cat died of renal disease" kinda case got to me ... I'd spend the whole time necropsying the thing feeling bad about the whole situation, and it was tough for me to re-focus that thinking.

At least when a case ends poorly in the hospital ... once it's dead, I write up the paperwork and move on with life. I dunno. For whatever irrational reason, it's just easier for me to put the hospital cases in the rear-view mirror and not dwell on them. Most of them, anyway. Yanno?

Are the hospital cases perhaps easier because you got to see what condition the animal was in prior to it dying? And you got to actually talk with the owners (or someone in the hospital working with you did) and you got to go through possible treatment options and know that as much could be done as possible? (even if it was just euth for economic reasons, at least you got to see the process to get to that decision)...

 

[DVMDream]

I am looking at a starting salary of 80-90k (will top off at 100 after a decade or so but still) after 7 years of post-vet school education (3 yrs residency, 4 PhD). Which yeah....hurts. As much as I like the field...that hurts.. .

That is sad.. really. You deserve better compensation than that... really sucks.

 

[LetItSnow]

Are the hospital cases perhaps easier because you got to see what condition the animal was in prior to it dying? And you got to actually talk with the owners (or someone in the hospital working with you did) and you got to go through possible treatment options and know that as much could be done as possible? (even if it was just euth for economic reasons, at least you got to see the process to get to that decision)...

*shrug* I don't really know. I think some things just aren't rational, and it's just the way you're wired and that's that. I bet someone smarter than me could puzzle it out, but.... I dunno.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

That is really really sad. I didn't realize it was that bad. I mean... I feel like they should pay you enough to at least account for your blooming debt due to forbearance from all the extra years of training. That's really shocking to me.

That's what most brand-new clinical professors at vet schools, who are either board certified in their specialty or have a PhD (or both), get paid.

More senior ones maybe more like 100-120 or so. But yeah. At some of the institutions in big cities it might even be more, but overall still not commeasurate with education and dedication.

Love your clinical profs guys. They put up with neverending education and **** academic salaries to teach you.

(I really like it though, even if it is hell getting there. I'm even taking some paedagogy classes next year to get a sort of teaching certificate. Haven't told my PI though...he'd derisively call me an "academic" :: )

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

*shrug* I don't really know. I think some things just aren't rational, and it's just the way you're wired and that's that. I bet someone smarter than me could puzzle it out, but.... I dunno.

I cried like a baby any time an animal died in the hospital. I couldn't take it. Even if it wasn't my patient. But for some reason, necropsy is fine. I dunno. Maybe an indirect way of coping with death? I do have a horrible fear of (my own) death.

I'm super glad we have people that can do emergency work. There is no WAY I could do that. Way too flighty and anxious. I'd burn out in under a month.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I just realized that in a couple years I may likely be teaching some of the pre-vets on this board.

****. I better start acting like an adult.