Possible? PhD in Public Health Policy/MCH Without MPH - would love advice!

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publichealthpolicynerd

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Hello,

I am planning to apply to graduate programs in public health this fall 2015, and ideally, I would like to enter a PhD program in maternal and child health or social epidemiology with a public policy / program development, implementation, and evaluation focus. My career goal is to be an applied researcher (local or federal government, research firm, or university) focused on public health programs and social policy interventions to reduce health disparities.

My big dilemma is whether I should be aiming for a PhD program, or if I should be directing my attention to MPH programs. Given my background, what would you recommend I do? What might increase my chances of getting accepted into a PhD program? Are there elements that are particularly important to a good application? And what are the pros and cons of going into a PhD program without a master's degree? (Funding is huge for me, and I know I want to get a PhD or DrPH eventually).


* Graduated from UC Berkeley with B.A. Public Health and minor in Public Policy (3.8)

* At time of application will have 1.5 years of post-undergraduate research experience in public health (focused on my area of interest)

* Part-time work experience in public health nutrition research and health education for 2.5 years in college

* GRE scores (estimate): 161 V, 158 Q

* 1 publication (a non peer-reviewed report)


My dream schools (revised):

-PhD Sociomedical Sciences - Columbia

-PhD HPM UNC Chapel Hill

-PhD Health Services UW

-PhD Health Policy UC Berkeley

-PhD HSPA UMN

Thanks for your help/advice!

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While you have a strong profile for MPH programs. However, many PhD programs won't admit without a prior graduate degree. You need to check with individual programs.
 
I wanted to do a similar thing, but my mentor encouraged me not to. I was hard-headed, and this is what I learned.

Most programs "allow you to apply" without an MPH, but you would be unlikely to be accepted.
You'd probably end up doing MPH coursework enroute. And, what I learned is that you may not necessarily want to do both degrees at the same school.
Some of the better programs require not only an MPH, but also work experience.


You can still apply to either program, but that will cause you to pay a lot more in application fees.
After everything, I decided to just apply to a few MPH MCH programs, then I'll pursue a PhD program, and researcher, depending on what I've learned from 2 years in MCH academia.
Best of luck.
 
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It's certainly an uphill battle. BUT, you can do two things to demonstrate you might make a good candidate on paper--have a focused research statement. Demonstrate you understand where research needs are and where your objectives fit. Understand what your needs are, what training you need, and then explain why professor X or professor Y is a great potential fit with research goals. Next, get great recommendations that say you have the critical thinking ability to carry you through a program. There were two people in my cohort (of 16) that came straight from undergrad, so it's certainly feasible.

The worst you'll do is lose a few hundred dollars in application fees.
 
First off, if you're trying to get in for this year (2015), I think you may be out of luck. It's really late in the application season to be applying for PhD programs.

Applying for a PhD program without a previous masters is going to be incredibly difficult. They are going to want to see significant research experience with a strong direction (i.e. you need to have a pretty good idea of what you want your research to be on and to have identified potential advisors that do research in that area). On top of all of that, you'll want pretty high GRE scores. While you do have significant accomplishments and you would make an excellent MPH or MSPH applicant, you would be on the lower end for PhD programs. If you don't want to do your masters, I suggest seeing if you can get another publication or two and increase those GRE scores to above the 90th percentile before you apply. Otherwise, going the masters route first would likely be a better option.
 
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It's certainly an uphill battle. BUT, you can do two things to demonstrate you might make a good candidate on paper--have a focused research statement. Demonstrate you understand where research needs are and where your objectives fit. Understand what your needs are, what training you need, and then explain why professor X or professor Y is a great potential fit with research goals. Next, get great recommendations that say you have the critical thinking ability to carry you through a program. There were two people in my cohort (of 16) that came straight from undergrad, so it's certainly feasible.

The worst you'll do is lose a few hundred dollars in application fees.

I know you've mentioned it before, but where was your PhD program? 2/16 sounds like a pretty high number.
 
I know you've mentioned it before, but where was your PhD program? 2/16 sounds like a pretty high number.

Yale. In the class prior to mine there were also 2 straight from undergrad, and another two before them. So there's definitely opportunities for quality candidates in PhD programs.
 
It would be interesting to figure out what set them apart. I was very interested in this path initially. After, much more thought, I was persuaded against it, partially because my mentor said she wouldn't write a recommendation for a straight PhD program.
 
It would be interesting to figure out what set them apart. I was very interested in this path initially. After, much more thought, I was persuaded against it, partially because my mentor said she wouldn't write a recommendation for a straight PhD program.

If I had to guess--years of research in undergrad that was directly related to what they continued on for their PhD in grad school. I know this was definitely true for one of my classmates (worked in a mosquito lab in undergrad, continued on to work in other vector-borne infectious disease genetics). And then of course the requisite stellar GPA and GRE scores. In most fields of study, students go straight to a PhD--even students that get a MPH/MS in Public health, that isn't enough without other qualifications to stand out to get into PhD programs.

Here's an idea of Yale's statistics: http://gsas.yale.edu/sites/default/files/department-files/publichealth_0.pdf

375 applicants, 11 admitted. Year to year, Yale interviewed maybe 2 people per slot. So you figure that maybe 20 were offered admission? It's a fairly competitive landscape.

Emory says they receive 125 applicants for 8-10 slots per year (http://www.sph.emory.edu/departments/epi/degree-programs/phd/index.html).

So there's no shame in not being offered admission to PhD on the first go around.
 
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First off, if you're trying to get in for this year (2015), I think you may be out of luck. It's really late in the application season to be applying for PhD programs.

Applying for a PhD program without a previous masters is going to be incredibly difficult. They are going to want to see significant research experience with a strong direction (i.e. you need to have a pretty good idea of what you want your research to be on and to have identified potential advisors that do research in that area). On top of all of that, you'll want pretty high GRE scores. While you do have significant accomplishments and you would make an excellent MPH or MSPH applicant, you would be on the lower end for PhD programs. If you don't want to do your masters, I suggest seeing if you can get another publication or two and increase those GRE scores to above the 90th percentile before you apply. Otherwise, going the masters route first would likely be a better option.
Thanks! I'm applying for Fall 2016 this winter. Solid advice - thank you.
 
It's certainly an uphill battle. BUT, you can do two things to demonstrate you might make a good candidate on paper--have a focused research statement. Demonstrate you understand where research needs are and where your objectives fit. Understand what your needs are, what training you need, and then explain why professor X or professor Y is a great potential fit with research goals. Next, get great recommendations that say you have the critical thinking ability to carry you through a program. There were two people in my cohort (of 16) that came straight from undergrad, so it's certainly feasible.

The worst you'll do is lose a few hundred dollars in application fees.
Thanks! I plan to apply to both PhD and MPH programs. I'm planning on some hefty application fees. :) Did most people in your cohort enter the program with peer-reviewed publications?
 
Thanks! I plan to apply to both PhD and MPH programs. I'm planning on some hefty application fees. :) Did most people in your cohort enter the program with peer-reviewed publications?

Definitely a mix. Some did some, didn't. But, having a good grasp of literature and where research gaps exist will be very impressive during the interview process :)
 
Hi @publichealthpolicynerd
I just wanted to put in my 2 cents since I was in your exact spot a year ago, deciding if I should apply to Ph.D programs at all (no Master's, 1.5 years of related work experience, and I had no publications). I ended up applying to a mix of MPH and PhDs (with a few more PhD programs than MPH) knowing that PhD for me was the end goal as well. I want to give you some encouragement because I ended up getting accepted into 2 of the PhD programs you listed above. When I visited those schools, there were actually several people in each cohort who had similar backgrounds. Maybe it was an abnormal year; maybe the trend is shifting... I'm not sure.

Regardless, I do echo Stories' (whose comment to my own 'chances' post encouraged me to apply. thanks!) first post about understanding your research interests, where the needs are, how it fits with faculty interests. My advice is to really understand those points and articulate them well in your essays. When I visited during acceptance days, faculty really highlighted the enjoyment of reading though those essays.

Best of luck!
 
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Hey, @Stories and @tickytocky. Thanks for all of your great advice. I just got my first PhD acceptance to UMN's Health Policy program!! It's fully funded the first two years -- the three years after, it's up to me to work 20 hrs/week as an RA or TA for living expenses and a tuition waiver. Is this typical funding for a competitive PhD program? If I do have other PhD options, how would you recommend identifying the best fit? (Here's my priority list: 1) dedicated adviser that matches my interests / publishing opportunities 2) funding 3) school prestige; campus and affiliated research centers and networking opportunities 4) location/climate.) Anything I'm missing? :)
 
Hey, @Stories and @tickytocky. Thanks for all of your great advice. I just got my first PhD acceptance to UMN's Health Policy program!! It's fully funded the first two years -- the three years after, it's up to me to work 20 hrs/week as an RA or TA for living expenses and a tuition waiver. Is this typical funding for a competitive PhD program? If I do have other PhD options, how would you recommend identifying the best fit? (Here's my priority list: 1) dedicated adviser that matches my interests / publishing opportunities 2) funding 3) school prestige; campus and affiliated research centers and networking opportunities 4) location/climate.) Anything I'm missing? :)

It's definitely common to see less funding as years go on, so this is not unique to this school.

Wait until you get all your offers and then talk to all the programs, particularly, the faculty you would work with, and then gauge what might be the best fit based on the work you'd expect to do, what sounds interesting, and how many additional faculty could support your interests. Other options to consider is look at your desired research areas, look at publications from the faculty, and see if they align at all.

I think you're well on your way to finding a good fit :)
 
California Baptist University offers an MPH with a concentration in Health Policy. Classes meet two nights per week.
 
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