Possible Re-applicant, could use some guidance

[thehighlander]

Hi everyone,

I recently got back on the pre-med track and could use some guidance. I apologize in advance for the lengthy post but I’ve been a little lost recently and could really use some perspective and help figuring out a viable gameplan for my future.

Here are my specs:
cGPA: 3.64
sGPA: 3.62
MCAT: 34 (11PS/10VR/13BS)
Human Biology major @ UCSD
Graduated Dec. 2012

Abbreviated ECs
EMT Lifeguard (4 summers, 2 as EMT)
Hospital Intern (240+ hrs)
Hospital Volunteer (90+ hrs)
Research Assistant (2 quarters, 10hrs/week)
Entrepreneur, Private Tutor - (http://www.vanguardlng.com/, 12/2012 - 06/2014)
SAT Class Instructor - Kaplan

My Situation
I applied for the 2012-2013 cycle and received 5 interviews but no admissions. I thought I interviewed all right (unless I’m lying to myself) but I wasn’t really sure what I wanted during the process so I think it’s likely that admissions questioned my commitment. I was working on an education company at the time and thought I wanted to do the whole entrepreneur/be your own boss thing. I worked extremely hard on it for the last 2 years, sacrificing like crazy and generally being miserable because I was giving it every single ounce of my energy. Anyways I eventually realized that pursuing the company was a mistake and that I’d been foolish not to have taken my interviews more seriously the first time through.

I now know for sure that I want to go into medicine and am willing to put in the work to get there. I had intended on reapplying this cycle (I’ve already done 90% of the work) but some red flags along the way have me reconsidering if it’s a good idea:

I pretty much committed 100% of my time the last 2 years to my education company … which means I haven’t added any medically relevant experience to my application since I last applied.
Only about half of medical schools will accept my MCAT score because I took it 9/11. (I have a list of 19 viable schools that will accept my score, had intended to apply to around 35 as a reapplicant)
I had the date updated on one of my LOR but don’t have any new letters.

Questions
Is it worth it to apply this cycle or is it a waste of time & financial resources?
Should I wait a year, retake the MCAT, and add some additional relevant experience to reaffirm my commitment to medicine before I reapply?

Moving forward, would it be more beneficial to get a job at a research lab (don’t have all that much research experience) for the next year or should I focus on trying to get more recent clinical experience (as an ER scribe or something)?

If I wait to re-apply until next summer, should I consider applying to an SMP program that starts fall 2015 (last took classes in 2012)?
Any other advice/ideas of things I should do to improve my application and better prepare me for the rigors of medical school?

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[occams_razor]

IMO, your MCAT and GPA are not what held you back. The fact that you got 5 interview invites confirms this.


I have met many people who think they are good in interviews when they actually have deficits. You should get feedback from people who will be brutally honest (ie not friends or family members) and work on improving your interview skills.

If you really want to maximize your chances you should sit this cycle out and apply next cycle. That's what I would do if I were you. You already have a strong app and you can make it much stronger if you wait a year and apply early next year.

In regard to your question about getting a job doing research vs clinical, I would go after whatever it is you are more interested in. If you think you will be happier doing research for a year go for that. Also if you get a paid research job you can still do clinical volunteering.

Also I would not do an SMP if I were you, you don't need it

Best of luck!

 

[BeancheBlanco]

Definitely do not retake the MCAT (wait, your score is 3 years old, in that case, I would probably retake it and apply next cycle). Your application is good enough to get in assuming you interview OK. Even in your previous cycle, you got 5 interviews which is very good. The only question is if you added anything new to your application. If you haven't, schools might not take you seriously this time around. You're also lacking in community service, but that isn't a deal breaker as long as you choose the correct schools to apply to.

In conclusion, I would re-take the MCAT to update the score and get a 1-year full-time job in the area you are most interested in (either research or some kind of service/healthcare job). Apply early next cycle.

 

[Goro]

retake the MCAT, get some lab experience, do some more clinical ECs (or clinical work) and most importantly,let go of the company.

And work on interview skills.

 

[QofQuimica]

Is it worth it to apply this cycle or is it a waste of time & financial resources?

Waste of time and financial resources. You know yourself that you're not ready to put your best app together right now.

Should I wait a year, retake the MCAT, and add some additional relevant experience to reaffirm my commitment to medicine before I reapply?

Yes.

Moving forward, would it be more beneficial to get a job at a research lab (don’t have all that much research experience) for the next year or should I focus on trying to get more recent clinical experience (as an ER scribe or something)?

Unless you're trying to get into an MD/PhD or MD/MS program, most med schools do not require research experience. But every med school in the country requires clinical experience. Prioritize accordingly.

If I wait to re-apply until next summer, should I consider applying to an SMP program that starts fall 2015 (last took classes in 2012)?

No, not with a GPA of 3.6.

Any other advice/ideas of things I should do to improve my application and better prepare me for the rigors of medical school?

I think you had a few issues.

1) You didn't come across as committed to medicine, in large part because you weren't committed to medicine. It's hard to convince an adcom that you're committed to medicine when you're not yet convinced of that yourself. More clinical experience (and 1-2 strong clinical LORs) will help with this issue. You should also work on writing convincing essays (PS and secondaries), as well as practice explaining "why medicine" in preparation for interviews. See below.

2) As the others have said, mock interviewing is key. How you come across is very important. It's not enough to decide you want to go to medical school and complete the prereqs. You need to believe in that dream for yourself, and you need to be able to explain that dream in a way that convinces others to believe in it for you as well. Practice doing this.

3) Possibly app strategy. You didn't say where you applied, how many schools, how early you applied, etc., but these things could have a big effect in your case. You're a solid candidate but not stellar, with average clinical ECs and stats that are slightly above average for allo schools. If you're a Southerner or Midwesterner and looking to stay regional, around 20 schools should be plenty. But if you're looking to go to one of the coastal schools that 10,000 of your peers are also applying to, you'll probably need to add a lot more schools. I'm guessing you're from Cali based on your UG, in which case I recommend that you focus your efforts on schools in the Midwest that take a lot of OOS residents.

4) You did not do nearly a good enough job of portraying your strengths. Your best EC by far is your teaching/tutoring experience, especially since you successfully started your own business to do this. Putting in the time and energy to start your company is not something you should feel a need to apologize for. Actually, you should be stressing your entrepreneurial and teaching skills on your apps, especially because many of these skills are transferable to medicine. It is not a coincidence that the word "doctor" comes from the Latin word for "teacher." All doctors teach, whether it's their colleagues, medical students, patients, etc. It is part of the job. Running a company additionally gives you real world leadership and management experience, both of which are also crucial skills for physicians. But reading your OP, I don't get a sense that you even recognize the significance of what you've done, let alone how it is applicable to medicine. Again, you really need to work on how you present yourself, both on paper and in person.

 

[thehighlander]

Thanks for your suggestions; they were really helpful! I'm going to wait until next cycle to reapply and retake the MCAT this year (before they change the format). The 2013 cycle I applied to around 25 schools, which I listed below. I included a few reach schools but most were based off MSAR data. I submitted my primaries July 10th and they were verified on August 16th. Received secondaries from most schools by the end of August. Didn't pre-write my secondaries (something I plan on doing next cycle) and was working full-time so it took me most of September to get them all submitted. Next cycle I'll start early so I can submit my primaries June 1st and will make sure I practice interviewing. Any other advice?

Albany Medical College*
FIU Herbert Wertheim College of Medicine*
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California*
Stony Brook University School of Medicine*
University of California San Diego
University of California San Fransico
University of California, Davis School of Medicine
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Eastern Virginia Medical School
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
Medical College of Wisconsin
New York Medical College
Rosalind Franklin University
Rush Medical College
SUNY at Buffalo Medical School
Saint Louis University School of Medicine
Tulane University School of Medicine
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
University of Illinois
University of Iowa
University of Wisconsin
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
University of Hawaii John A. Burns Sch. of Med*
Yale
Harvard
Stanford

*Received Interview

 

[Plecopotamus]

Thanks for your suggestions; they were really helpful! I'm going to wait until next cycle to reapply and retake the MCAT this year (before they change the format). The 2013 cycle I applied to around 25 schools, which I listed below. I included a few reach schools but most were based off MSAR data. I submitted my primaries July 10th and they were verified on August 16th. Received secondaries from most schools by the end of August. Didn't pre-write my secondaries (something I plan on doing next cycle) and was working full-time so it took me most of September to get them all submitted. Next cycle I'll start early so I can submit my primaries June 1st and will make sure I practice interviewing. Any other advice?

Albany Medical College*
FIU Herbert Wertheim College of Medicine*
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California*
Stony Brook University School of Medicine*
University of California San Diego
University of California San Fransico
University of California, Davis School of Medicine
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Eastern Virginia Medical School
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
Medical College of Wisconsin
New York Medical College
Rosalind Franklin University
Rush Medical College
SUNY at Buffalo Medical School
Saint Louis University School of Medicine
Tulane University School of Medicine
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
University of Illinois
University of Iowa
University of Wisconsin
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
University of Hawaii John A. Burns Sch. of Med*
Yale
Harvard
Stanford

*Received Interview

You are definitely out of line in assuming you interviewed "alright", as you would be proposing that 5 schools all did a poor job of pre-screening for elements that were available in your app pre interview--maybe you could reasonably assert that for 1 or 2, but it's preposterous to try to convince people that 5 schools all used some technique that overlooked a dealbreaker in screening. OK interviewing would typically turn more than 0/5 interviews into an admission, but specifically given the schools where you interviewed, I can all but guarantee it. You interviewed at at least one school that does very rigorous pre-interview screening and then weighs the interview very heavily in the final decision. With 0/5 acceptances, I'd wager that you didn't even interview so-so but actually badly. Given that discrepancy between your personal perception and reality, I echo the importance of mock interviews and suggest you do something in the interim year to increase yourunscripted interactions with strangers (i.e. teaching doesn't count).

 

[thehighlander]

Hi everyone. It's been awhile and I was hoping to receive some further guidance on my situation. The last 6+ months have been really difficult and not nearly as productive as I'd hoped. After receiving your suggestions, I got a part-time job teaching swim lessons at a non-profit while I studied for the MCAT. I ended up retaking the test twice. Here are all 3 of my results:
9/11: 34 (11PS/10VR/13BS)
10/21/14: 31 (11PS/9VR/11BS)
1/8/15: 32 (12PS/8VR/12BS)

I'm practically pulling my hair out over the result but I don't know what I could change if I were to do it all again. I put in the time, used the books/strategies SDN top-scorers recommended, took a plethora of practice tests, got enough sleep, exercised regularly, ate right, made it my top priority, literally everything except get the result I was hoping for. Maybe there was a component of luck the first time around or I was a little sharper because I was still in college - I don't know. Is my MCAT score decreasing from a 34 --> 32 going to have a significant effect on my application? Will admissions be able to see all my previous scores, even from several years before? If I continue to work on my interview skills, do I have a decent chance of acceptance at an MD school if I apply to 40 schools? I'm interested in ER Medicine and also plan on applying to 6-7 DO schools. I've been shadowing a DO and secured a LOR. Are there any significant disadvantages to going the DO route for ER Medicine? Will list both the MD/DO schools below. Are there any schools I might want to consider removing from my list (given the high volume of schools I'm applying to) because it's not realistic for me to have a chance at acceptance there? Since my second MCAT retake a month ago, I started working full-time as a Psychiatric Assistant (I provide basic nursing care) at a Psych Hospital and have been volunteering every week at a non-profit that helps homeless and low income individuals gain employment by improving their job search skills. I primarily help prepare resumes and do mock interviews. I'm also starting to work on my apps so I can get them in the day they open. Any other advice/comments? Feel free to be brutally honest, I can take it.

MD Schools

Albany Medical College
FIU Herbert Wertheim College of Medicine
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California ?
Stony Brook University School of Medicine
University of California San Diego
University of California, Davis School of Medicine
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
Eastern Virginia Medical School
Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth
Medical College of Wisconsin
New York Medical College
Rosalind Franklin University
Rush Medical College
SUNY at Buffalo Medical School
Saint Louis University School of Medicine
Tulane University School of Medicine
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
University of Illinois
University of Iowa
University of Wisconsin
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
Temple University School of Medicine
University of California Riverside
Drexel University
Creighton University
Tufts University
Georgetown University
University of Washington
University of Vermont
SUNY Downstate
University of Colorado
University of Central Florida
Pennsylvania State University
Indiana University
UT San Antonio
Texas A & M
Texas Tech (Paul L. Foster)
Texas Tech University Health Sciences

DO Schools

Western University of Health Sciences – College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific (WesternU-COMP)
Des Moines University – College of Osteopathic Medicine (DMU-COM)
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine (PCOM)
Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine (MSUCOM)
University of North Texas Health Science Center – Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine (UNTHSC-TCOM)
Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University (CCOM-MWU)
A.T. Still University, Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine (ATSU-KCOM)

 

[DrMidlife]

GPAs?

 

[gyngyn]

There are plenty of DO's in EM.
Delete the TX schools.
Delete U 0f W.
Are you from the IE? I presume so given your handle. UCR is a good bet.
I would tell you to delete some of your CA schools but I know you will apply anyway!

 

[thehighlander]

GPAs?

cGPA: 3.64
sGPA: 3.62

 

[thehighlander]

Are you from the IE? I presume so given your handle.

Thanks for the advice! What do you mean by IE in this context? Am not familiar with that acronym.

 

[DrMidlife]

Inland Empire. That means Southeast California. UC Riverside has a strong preference for locals who won't flee from the smog after med school.

That 3rd retake makes no sense and will draw criticism, but your MCAT isn't going to be a reason for rejection. It's above the bar.

An SMP would be a very expensive and risky choice with your GPA. Generally 3.4 is about the highest number that makes sense for an investment of $50k and ~2 cross country moves.

It looks like you don't understand public vs private MD schools. To get into a public MD school in a state where you are not a legal resident, you generally need to be in the top 5-10% of all applicants, or URM. Generally EVMS is an exception, because it's using outrageous OOS tuition to make up budget cuts and thus is half OOS. Note that some private MD schools get big fat state support to give instate preference.

You need to do thorough research on MD schools, starting with the MSAR, followed by a rigorous review of each school's admissions website with special attention to the FAQs, followed by review of anecdotal SDN info. For example, U of W Virginia takes a lot of OOS, but only from Appalachia.

California is rough. But you should apply to every school in CA. It's the only (wee tiny) edge you've got.

Your DO list is good. Add more. Avoid the new ones and the religious ones, imho. The LECOMs are very solid. PNWU is good.

Best of luck to you.

 

[thehighlander]

Thanks DrMidlife, will do some more research and expand my DO list!