Possibly leaving U of Cincinnati

[whopper]

I don't want to make this thread about me, but what I've seen here. In short, I don't want to go, I still might not go, but my wife just completed her doctorate, wants to become a professor and there are no academic positions in the area. There are (unfortunately for me) positions outside the area and one just offered her a tenure-track position. I have no wish to leave here but must if I want to allow my wife's career to blossom.

I haven't worked with the residents enough to tell what the general feeling is concerning their satisfaction but overall I do think they're happy and well treated.

The program has every fellowship you can think of that's conventional. Addiction, forensic, child, geriatric. There's a combined FP/Psychiatry, triple-board (pediatrics/psychiatry/child psychiatry). We don't have an eating disorder clinic here but the Lindner Center does have an inpatient unit where several of the patients have an eating disorder and it's on the order as having one.

Clinical exposure is tremendously diverse. The VA, a local private institution (the Lindner Center of Hope), geriatric, adult inpatient, forensic units, among several others I can't name off the top of my head. Child fellows work at Children's Hospital that is ranked one of the top in the nation. Lindner Center and UC Hospital are also nationally ranked.

Outpatient offices have attendings with very good experience in psychotherapy.

As far as faculty goes, several faculty are ranked in the top 100 doctors in the country and several others aren't there but are nationally recognized winning national-level awards or have been officers in national organizations. Doug Mossman, Paul Keck, are among a few. Henry Nasrallah used to be here but recently left to head St. Louis's department.

The ratio of attendings that teach well and work well with residents vs the ones that don't seem to give a darned is overwhelmingly in favor of good teaching attendings. Every single attending I know here is capable of being a top-rated psychiatrist in several localities where there are several good psychiatrists. While I was in residency, I'd say it was 50/50, here it's about 95 to 5.

I've found the general atmosphere to be very positive. I've worked with some of the best people in the country here. Experientially, comparing it to my previous job with the state, it was like going from a team of poor to mostly average doctors (with 2 very good ones) to working with some very bright people that gave a damn. At times I felt like I was in Starfleet here (for those of you who are Trek fans). Even the top rated doctors were very approachable and friendly, some of them having dinner with me from time to time and treating me like a friend even though I was new. Nasrallah in particular is a very nice guy that went out of his way to make others feel comfortable.

Negatives: Ohio's weather is lousy. Cincinnati is on the outer edge of the bad weather so it's not as bad as Cleveland but it sure isn't Florida.
It's a big institution. Expect big institution bureacracy at times. I can say, however, that the people here make it a friendly but frustrating at times bureacracy vs a cold one.
Cultural diveristy-we have very few patients speaking other languages. This actually makes work much easier and this could attract some, but do not expect to see any culture bound syndromes.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[nitemagi]

What's your question?

 

[whopper]

No question from me. Just wanted to let people know the general atmosphere here at U of C.

 

[vistaril]

No question from me. Just wanted to let people know the general atmosphere here at U of C.

Im just curious and maybe you aren't involved in resident recruitment so may not have the scoop- why did you guys have so many open spots this year? There was some insane number...like 5 unmatched spots before soap iirc.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

No question from me. Just wanted to let people know the general atmosphere here at U of C.

Do you know much about their FP/Psych dual residency?

 

[PikminOC]

Are you required to recruit another doc before you leave? Because that is what this sounds like..

 

[whopper]

I'm not looking to recruit. My contractual obligations are only that I have to stay with them a few months after I announce I will leave. I do want to help them any way I can. If I could find anyone who wants to take the spot they'd appreciate that but that wasn't my goal.

I can't think of any place that'd require someone to fill in a spot before they let someone else go unless that person was violating a contract.

why did you guys have so many open spots this year?

Don't know. I have not involved myself in the residency selection process much this year. I'm very busy as it is and did not volunteer to do more in that area and I could have. Dr. Evans, PD (who is a heck of a good guy and PD) gives an annual report on the state of affairs of the residency program where he usually gives very detailed information and answers questions but off-hand I don't know the answer.

FP/Psych dual residency?

Not to the degree where I'd prefer to be the one answering the questions. IMHO a resident in the program is a better source. Attendings could possibly give a biased view because we're not the ones suffering the harder work and hours. From what I can tell, however, is that it'd solid.

 

[shan564]

If you're not trying to recruit, then it's hard to understand the purpose of the original post.

 

[whopper]

Hmm, I'm going to quote someone.

Just wanted to let people know the general atmosphere here at U of C.

Several students ask what it's like in other programs. Just filing a gap.

 

[Shikima]

Getting an Ohio license is pretty bad though..

 

[Chimed]

So where are you going?

BTW, did you go to the Midwest AAPL meeting this year?

 

[Nasrudin]

I hope you're coming to my city. But good luck wherever you go.

 

[Lavenlian]

Wish you best of luck, whopper. Please don't take another hiatus from the board wherever you end up. Congrats to Mrs. Whopper on completion of her PhD.

 

[whopper]

I'm most likely going to St. Louis.

The offer for my wife is tenure-track, less work (per day) than most positions for a starting professor because the school's academic calendar is year round without summer breaks, and she gets to do mostly teaching, some clinical work and some research and that is the mix she wants. The position is in St. Louis.

So, in an attempt to not go (because I love where I'm at, and heck I'm a ninja in an awesome D&D/Pathfinder group), I set stipulations that had to be set before I could agree to a move.
1) I have to be able to get a Missouri license in a timely manner (Nuts-they told me it'll take 6 weeks tops)
2) I have to be able to get a job in an academic center with people I respect where I can teach (nuts, SLU offered me such a position, head of the dept is one of the top doctors in the country and a heck of a nice guy, the top forensic doctor there is also a top doctor and a former AAPL president).
3) The job position for my wife has to be tenure track, and exactly what she wants.

Now add to my problem they're going to pay her more vs what most starting professors make, the head of SLU told me I could do things there almost immediately that I'd only be able to do in Cincinnati once I reached a higher position, nuts. Each time I try to find some way out of moving, I get the opposite reaction.

I struck out. I had to let this happen or be a bad husband and human being. Nuts. I was eating at a restaurant I love in this area a few days ago and just thinking how I'm going to miss Cincinnati.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I'm most likely going to St. Louis.

The offer for my wife is tenure-track, less work (per day) than most positions for a starting professor because the school's academic calendar is year round without summer breaks, and she gets to do mostly teaching, some clinical work and some research and that is the mix she wants. The position is in St. Louis.

So, in an attempt to not go (because I love where I'm at, and heck I'm a ninja in an awesome D&D/Pathfinder group), I set stipulations that had to be set before I could agree to a move.
1) I have to be able to get a Missouri license in a timely manner (Nuts-they told me it'll take 6 weeks tops)
2) I have to be able to get a job in an academic center with people I respect where I can teach (nuts, SLU offered me such a position, head of the dept is one of the top doctors in the country and a heck of a nice guy, the top forensic doctor there is also a top doctor and a former AAPL president).
3) The job position for my wife has to be tenure track, and exactly what she wants.

Now add to my problem they're going to pay her more vs what most starting professors make, the head of SLU told me I could do things there almost immediately that I'd only be able to do in Cincinnati once I reached a higher position, nuts. Each time I try to find some way out of moving, I get the opposite reaction.

I struck out. I had to let this happen or be a bad husband and human being. Nuts. I was eating at a restaurant I love in this area a few days ago and just thinking how I'm going to miss Cincinnati.

They have good restaurants in St Louis, too.
I think you chose wisely. I hope it works out well for both of you. It's obviously a Win for SLU!

 

[alina_s]

Well, when I applied for a Missouri license, it took several times longer than they said it would and there's nothing interesting about my record.

I'm from Cincinnati, although I haven't lived there since before medical school, and I lived near St. Louis for two years and liked it a lot. The summers in St. Louis are even more disgusting than Cincinnati, but without getting political, St. Louis is quite a bit less inhibited/cautious. There are also some great parks- the one where the world fair was held is amazing- and The City Museum is fun for kids and adults.

 

[Chimed]

I'm most likely going to St. Louis.

The offer for my wife is tenure-track, less work (per day) than most positions for a starting professor because the school's academic calendar is year round without summer breaks, and she gets to do mostly teaching, some clinical work and some research and that is the mix she wants. The position is in St. Louis.

So, in an attempt to not go (because I love where I'm at, and heck I'm a ninja in an awesome D&D/Pathfinder group), I set stipulations that had to be set before I could agree to a move.
1) I have to be able to get a Missouri license in a timely manner (Nuts-they told me it'll take 6 weeks tops)
2) I have to be able to get a job in an academic center with people I respect where I can teach (nuts, SLU offered me such a position, head of the dept is one of the top doctors in the country and a heck of a nice guy, the top forensic doctor there is also a top doctor and a former AAPL president).
3) The job position for my wife has to be tenure track, and exactly what she wants.

Now add to my problem they're going to pay her more vs what most starting professors make, the head of SLU told me I could do things there almost immediately that I'd only be able to do in Cincinnati once I reached a higher position, nuts. Each time I try to find some way out of moving, I get the opposite reaction.

I struck out. I had to let this happen or be a bad husband and human being. Nuts. I was eating at a restaurant I love in this area a few days ago and just thinking how I'm going to miss Cincinnati.

Ahhhh...D&D--brings up good memories.

 

[notdeadyet]

Congrats, whopper. And congrats to your wife. A tenure-track position fresh out of the PhD gate is quite the accomplishment...

Yours is the right call. You will have many jobs but (touch wood) only one wife. I think you end up regretting more often the sacrifices you could have made for your partner but selfishly didn't than the sacrifices you made for the sake of the person you love.

 

[whopper]

Well, when I applied for a Missouri license, it took several times longer than they said it would and there's nothing interesting about my record.

Yeah, that's what I'm fearing. It's real easy for a receptionist to give information without any emotional investment in it. I'm working on getting the license now.

My D&D group? Has 1 published forensic psychiatrist, three Ph.D. candidates, myself, and a guy who is literally one of the top gamers in the country who sculpts plenty of his own miniatures among other gaming items. We got a solid and intelligent group. A psych reseacher at the U of C department I was thinking about getting him to join before this stuff happened.

 

[shan564]

woot! Welcome to St. Louis. Let me know if you could use any help/guidance about the city.

 

[PikminOC]

Whose wood?

 

[whopper]

Im just curious and maybe you aren't involved in resident recruitment so may not have the scoop- why did you guys have so many open spots this year?

I talked to Lawson Wulsin. He's the head of the FP/Psychiatry combined residency. He told me the psychiatry program had two open spots but they were filled quickly with the scramble or whatever the official name of it is now "post-match?" The FP/psych program, however, was filled and didn't need to go through that.

FP/Psych dual residency?

Dr. Wulsin is the head of that program and he's good and a very very nice guy. He's been ranked as one of the best doctors in the area and I've never seen him show off a mentality I would expect to see from a malignant PD.

The FP/psych program has options to do work in other countries. So if you don't speak Spanish, you have a strong opportunity to develop it with that program despite that very few patients in Cincinnati speak that language. A lot of the residents in the program are strong.

I can't tell you much else because not being a graduate in that program or having experienced the resident side leaves me at a loss to explain some of the things hopeful residents may want to know.

I can tell you that the program is not malignant and we got some truly outstanding residents in the program. The only valid deterrent I can think of is most people don't see Cincinnati as an exciting city if you want to an exciting place to settle though from what I've seen most new attendings will likely want to develop a family and in that sense Cincinnati is very good.

 

[Igor4sugry]

I can tell you that the program is not malignant and we got some truly outstanding residents in the program. The only valid deterrent I can think of is most people don't see Cincinnati as an exciting city if you want to an exciting place to settle though from what I've seen most new attendings will likely want to develop a family and in that sense Cincinnati is very good.

I'm not sure what is happening with recruitment. They went from their current PGY-IV class with all American MD grads from big state schools to the PGY-I class being only 2/6 American MD grad (per their resident website). And this application cycle they had two spots unmatched after the main match. So it is somewhat interesting as to the change in the program. I remember they recruited heavily, with a lookback dinner. I think there was mention of another hospital that residents had to cover. Maybe current or former residents can chime in.

 

[Thorazinenap]

I'm a current resident at UC and have several thoughts about our match this year.

I think we need to get better at marketing the assets of this program. Such as the clinical sites, a major academic medical center (with med flights and transfers coming from the entire tri state area), a VA hospital, a free standing psychiatric hospital complete with psych ER (the model for psych ERs in the country), an outstanding children's hospital for child psych rotations and electives, great experience for those interested in child/ adolescent psych. We also have a historic psychoanalytic institute literally across the street and the majority of our therapy training is there. Also your own office your third year doing all outpatient private practice model med mgt and therapy, various sub speciality clinics third year. And entire fourth year is ALL electives.

Second, I think it's worth emphasizing our fascinating cross section of patients. We are in the inner city, but also a college town with a huge student population, surrounded by some very affluent suburbs, mixed in with Appalachia and all that rural Kentucky has to offer.

Cincinnati nightlife / socially could either be seen as boring or actually kind of quirky. Plenty of neat things going on, as well as urban revitalization and urban migration.

As for the first year class versus fourth year classes differences. I think the interns bring some great diversity to a program that otherwise has a heavy regional bias. And I personally know some interns who have outstanding credentials and it's pretty awesome that they chose to come here.

I think we're just a little under the radar and need to improve on that.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Wow, I'm so envious of your experiences at U of Cincinnati and future at SLU. I've met some of the doctors you've mentioned at one time or another and respect them all.
I think SLU is the more well rounded of the two programs in town.
Live Long and Prosper.

 

[vistaril]

I'm a current resident at UC and have several thoughts about our match this year.

I think we need to get better at marketing the assets of this program. Such as the clinical sites, a major academic medical center (with med flights and transfers coming from the entire tri state area), a VA hospital, a free standing psychiatric hospital complete with psych ER (the model for psych ERs in the country), an outstanding children's hospital for child psych rotations and electives, great experience for those interested in child/ adolescent psych. We also have a historic psychoanalytic institute literally across the street and the majority of our therapy training is there. Also your own office your third year doing all outpatient private practice model med mgt and therapy, various sub speciality clinics third year. And entire fourth year is ALL electives.

Second, I think it's worth emphasizing our fascinating cross section of patients. We are in the inner city, but also a college town with a huge student population, surrounded by some very affluent suburbs, mixed in with Appalachia and all that rural Kentucky has to offer.

Cincinnati nightlife / socially could either be seen as boring or actually kind of quirky. Plenty of neat things going on, as well as urban revitalization and urban migration.

As for the first year class versus fourth year classes differences. I think the interns bring some great diversity to a program that otherwise has a heavy regional bias. And I personally know some interns who have outstanding credentials and it's pretty awesome that they chose to come here.

I think we're just a little under the radar and need to improve on that.

I think you're looking at this all wrong....you guys having a astonishingly horrific match this year has nothing to do with the quality of the program. Or how people percieve your program. It's because you're a psych program that's in the midwest. And being a psych program in the midwest, even if you're a solid university program that provides training, you may have some years where you get some really bad luck.

 

[vistaril]

Wow, I'm so envious of your experiences at U of Cincinnati and future at SLU. I've met some of the doctors you've mentioned at one time or another and respect them all.
I think SLU is the more well rounded of the two programs in town.
Live Long and Prosper.

oooooh.....I didn't even think about how this sets up the potential for some tension between whopper and shan in terms of which program/dept is 'better'(whatever that means)

 

[Igor4sugry]

I'm a current resident at UC and have several thoughts about our match this year.

I think we need to get better at marketing the assets of this program. Such as the clinical sites, a major academic medical center (with med flights and transfers coming from the entire tri state area), a VA hospital, a free standing psychiatric hospital complete with psych ER (the model for psych ERs in the country), an outstanding children's hospital for child psych rotations and electives, great experience for those interested in child/ adolescent psych. We also have a historic psychoanalytic institute literally across the street and the majority of our therapy training is there. Also your own office your third year doing all outpatient private practice model med mgt and therapy, various sub speciality clinics third year. And entire fourth year is ALL electives.

Second, I think it's worth emphasizing our fascinating cross section of patients. We are in the inner city, but also a college town with a huge student population, surrounded by some very affluent suburbs, mixed in with Appalachia and all that rural Kentucky has to offer.

Cincinnati nightlife / socially could either be seen as boring or actually kind of quirky. Plenty of neat things going on, as well as urban revitalization and urban migration.

As for the first year class versus fourth year classes differences. I think the interns bring some great diversity to a program that otherwise has a heavy regional bias. And I personally know some interns who have outstanding credentials and it's pretty awesome that they chose to come here.

I think we're just a little under the radar and need to improve on that.

I don't know, but having to scramble 2 residents in a university program is not a small thing. When I interviewed there there was a sense of residents being stressed about ongoing changes.