PhD/PsyD PostDoc options for international PhD graduates

[MDPsychologist]

Hi,

I am a licensed Clinical Psychologist from India with Advance Masters in Clinical Psychology. I have also submitted my PhD thesis in Psychology in India.
I am currently working in Chicago in a Mental Heath Center under the supervision of a Clinical Psychologist from three years.

I am moving to New York City in few months. I wanted to know about possible postdoc opportunities that will help me for Clinical Psychologist license in NY. I will appreciate if the members of the forum can guide or connect me with any possible source or information that can help me since I am a international student/ professional.

Thanks,
JainA

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[CheetahGirl]

Hi JainA,

You'll really need to look into the APA guidelines (did you read this? http://www.apa.org/international/pi/2011/04/licensure.aspx). For many formal post-docs and even NY State licensing (I am a resident of NY and will be licensed in this state), require APA approved doctoral programs and the EPPP, so their website may also have some info (http://www.asppb.net/?page=EPPPSignup). With your credentials, you can certainly look into getting a NY State mental health counseling license based on your Masters degree (see here: http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/mhp/mhclic.htm) but with this license, you will not be able to call yourself a "doctor" or "clinical psychologist," which would be frustrating to me in your situation. As far as foreign graduates, I honestly do not know if there is any sort of equivalent to the ECFMG (that medical school graduates have, like here http://www.ecfmg.org/certification/).

The issue lies with the fact that in the US, we can only call ourselves clinical psychologies once we've earned a doctorate (PhD or PsyD). In India (and I am Indian but raised in the US), you are entitled to this profession with only your Masters degree and concurrent training. My Father was also a physician who studied in India, but completed his residencies and practiced in the US (which is why I have knowledge of the ECFMG & medical school path).

Clinical psychology is a bit more difficult to transfer over to from other countries as it should be, in my opinion, because we have a different level of competence that must be demonstrated (as you know practicing in the field...it is different set of scientific variables involved). I know it has been done, I just don't know the specifics.

I would also be interested if any others here on SDN know what you would need to do. As I see it, you will have to find some way to prove that your training is comparable to APA standards for licensing to be competitive for a post-doc and pass the EPPP for licensing. If you're able to work through this, please report back to us how you do so. It would be interesting to know!

Best of luck!

 

[PsyDr]

You are not a licensed clinical psychologist in the USA. Also psychologist is a protected title, which can mean legal consequences for calling yourself a psychologist without a USA license.

The degree also has to show equivalence to its American counterpart, with evidence from course syllabi, grading rubrics, etc. Unless your Indian Ph.D. followed the standard apa curriculum, you are out of luck.

There may be some way to do a respecialization program.

 

[CheetahGirl]

And yes to what PSYDR said...

 

[MDPsychologist]

Hi CheetahGirl and PSYDR,

Thanks for your suggestions and views.

@PSYDR I am aware that I can't call myself a licensed psychologist in US. I just mentioned that I hold a Clinical Psychologist license in India that can only be obtained not by pursuing a regular masters degree but an Advanced Masters (M.Phil) program that has focus on clinical internship and teaching.

Regarding completion of pre-doctoral hours requirement, I was hoping that my work-experience at the Mental health center in Chicago under supervision of a clinical psychologist could be considered for pre-doctoral internship.

I would be applying to NY State board for consideration of my education as eligibility for the licensure. If they approve my education, my original question was what possible locations can I look to complete postdoctoral hours. In general, it looks difficult to find places that hire people with limited permit.

 

[PsyDr]

Regarding completion of pre-doctoral hours requirement, I was hoping that my work-experience at the Mental health center in Chicago under supervision of a clinical psychologist could be considered for pre-doctoral internship.

The chance of this being accepted is extremely limited.

If they approve my education, my original question was what possible locations can I look to complete postdoctoral hours.

You would really be best served by learning about how doctoral psychology training is performed in the US, so that you can learn where the deficiencies are and what you can do about it.

 

[CheetahGirl]

If they approve my education, my original question was what possible locations can I look to complete postdoctoral hours. In general, it looks difficult to find places that hire people with limited permit.

Even if you have a limited permit, you will still need to meet some of the 'blanket requirements,' like APA internship or program to be considered in the mass pool of applicants. In my opinion, you will need to network to post-doctoral program directors and be considered on a case-by-case basis, outside the pool of regular applicants. I could not see it any other way because if you go to the individual post-doc fellowship sites in NYC and the surrounding areas, they usually list the requirements for applicants and it always states the following (one was taken from a Veterans Affairs post-doc site, the latter from a Weill Cornell fellowship site):

• be a U.S. citizen.
• be a student in good standing in an APA-accredited Clinical or Counseling psychology doctoral program, or
• have completed a doctoral degree, including dissertation defense, from an APA-accredited Clinical or Counseling Psychology program prior to the start date of the fellowship. Note: Persons with a Ph.D. in another area of psychology who meet the APA criteria for respecialization training in Clinical or Counseling Psychology are also eligible to apply.
• successfully complete an APA-accredited psychology internship.

or

Fellow Qualifications (to be completed by fellowship start date):

• Completion of APA-accredited Clinical Psychology program preferred
• Completion of APA-accredited internship
• Obtain Limited Permit to Practice Psychology in NY Statehttp://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/psych/psychlic.htm#permit

If you are very good at what you do, I don't see why some sites wouldn't give you a chance to at least interview. Then, there comes in the issue of work Visa...so I would really reach out to directors of programs and/or get your current supervisor to inquire on your behalf. See what the possibilities are directly with the programs that offer the fellowships. And, JainA, you can relate to this: As my Nani always says "where there is a will, there is a way." Good luck.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Hi,

I am a licensed Clinical Psychologist from India with Advance Masters in Clinical Psychology. I have also submitted my PhD thesis in Psychology in India.
I am currently working in Chicago in a Mental Heath Center under the supervision of a Clinical Psychologist from three years.

I am moving to New York City in few months. I wanted to know about possible postdoc opportunities that will help me for Clinical Psychologist license in NY. I will appreciate if the members of the forum can guide or connect me with any possible source or information that can help me since I am a international student/ professional.

Thanks,
JainA

I highly doubt that the NY Psych Board will accept international training as sufficient for licensure. As you stated, training was at the MS level and while you submitted a Ph.D. thesis, equivalency would still need to be established…which I suspect will be where you get tripped up. Your best bet is probably licensure at the MA/MS level, though that still may require additional training/supervision/etc.

NY tends to be very strict about psych licensure, so that is an uphill battle for US-trained psychologists.

 

[MDPsychologist]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. Even though there is a lot of pessimism about NY state board, I will apply for licensure and if they do ask for few additional coursework, I would pursue them.

 

[empathiosis]

Don't lose hope. I just looked at the NYS Board of Psychology website and they mention certificates from other countries, under Limited Permit, at the bottom of this page:

http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/psych/psychlic.htm

The mere fact that they mention it, means that they are aware that professionals who have been trained in other countries may want to become licensed in the US and they probably have a procedure in place. On the other hand, it may be just Canada, since I looked at the form they mentioned it says state or province, which implies Canada. Also, to obtain a permit I think you would need to be a NY resident, and it takes one year to become a resident.

In terms of accruing hours, you may want to take a look at this list of externship sites and contact training directors at sites that are of interest to you:

http://psychpracticum.fdu.edu/index.php/All_Sites

Good luck!

 

[MDPsychologist]

Thanks empathiosis. I am noway losing hope. When I moved to the US, I was told that you won't get a job in a mental health center. I did. I was told that my education is/may not be good enough. I am guiding Psy.D. and M.A. interns and they have always considered me as a go to person to discuss their cases in the training director's absence. So, whether the board considers my education worthy of licensure, I will always be taking steps, be it small at a time, to get my licensure.

 

[deleted343839]

I am guiding Psy.D. and M.A. interns and they have always considered me as a go to person to discuss their cases in the training director's absence.

Hopefully this is only peer-to-peer discussion and is not taking the place of formal supervision.

It is really not a matter of considering your education "worthy" or not. It is not a subjective call. The licensing board should have clear, specific criteria about the nature of the coursework and practica requirements that are necessary in other to become licensed. The sooner you learn about these qualifications, the better. However, I agree with what others have said -- surely you are not the first person to have been in this situation.

 

[MDPsychologist]

@ MamaPhD Yes it is more of a peer-to-peer discussion. There is no way it can be a formal supervision.