Potential non-trad with questions, currently a military officer

[restlessdriven]

Hi everyone. It's been literally years since I last posted on this site so here's a bit of background on me.

Premed in college, graduated in 2012 with a BS in biology at a good private school with a 3.6 GPA (sGPA is higher, can't recall it right now), 28 MCAT. I had great extracurriculars including leadership positions with extended involvement, volunteering and shadowing. Also had jobs as a scribe, in a lab and a few normal college jobs like barista and tutor. I got lots of medical exposure in college and loved it.

Bottom line is I took the MCAT right after my junior year, was mildly disappointed in my score but told by my pre-med advisor that I could definitely get into a few MD schools with my extracurriculars and recommendations. I sat down to write my personal statement and couldn't get it out. I realized that I'd lost myself in the chase. I needed some time to mull everything over and kind of figure out who I was.

Just to be clear, I wanted and still want a career in medicine more than anything else. But first, I needed to pay the bills (private school wasn't cheap) so I took a respectable job at a lab. I've always thought about joining the military and I decided that I wanted to try my hand at it before I decided on some kind of HPSP type program. I was commissioned in May of 2013.

I'm currently in training but having doubts about whether the military is really for me. I'm not having academic or disclipinary issues; I just don't know if this is the life I want for the next 7 years. And medicine is still calling me.

After all that exposition, my question is this: Would it look bad on an application if I resigned my commission early?

Thanks for any help.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Darth Doc]

I've always thought about joining the military and I decided that I wanted to try my hand at it before I decided on some kind of HPSP type program. I was commissioned in May of 2013.

After all that exposition, my question is this: Would it look bad on an application if I resigned my commission early?

The military doesn't let you resign your commission until you've completed your obligation. (There may be exceptions for extenuating circumstances, but finding out it's not your dream isn't one of them.) Going AWOL or otherwise giving them reason to rescind your commission (never passing a PT test or height/weight) will result in a dishonorable discharge which would DEFINITELY look bad. I know former soldiers with dishonorable discharges who now can't even get a job at McDonald's. Depending on what you signed for you are probably doing 4 years active and 3 years IRR?

Look at your contract, but expect to continue your military experience. Military experience looks good at application time to medical school. I recommend you make the best of it, stick it out, and maybe try for a medical AOC that will help more in the med school process.

 

[restlessdriven]

Appreciate the response. I'll have to take a second look at my contract. The way I remember it being worded is that I owe 6 years active after I complete this training. They estimate the training takes 2 years so I'm halfway through.

At this point in my training. I could DOR (drop-on request) and be put through a board in an attempt to get another assignment. Medical AOCs are hard to come by at these boards. And, they don't typically pick up people (recently) from my commissioning source, OCS. I would NEVER think of going AWOL or purposely getting kicked out.

So, would you say it's a good idea to just put my nose to the grindstone and make sure I'm set up for success in the application process when I get out?

 

[Ryank327]

=
So, would you say it's a good idea to just put my nose to the grindstone and make sure I'm set up for success in the application process when I get out?

You're pretty much stuck, make the best of it by continuing your education as much as possible while you are AD. Another option is USUHS but since you aren't particularly fond of the military I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[xffan624]

Hi everyone. It's been literally years since I last posted on this site so here's a bit of background on me.

Premed in college, graduated in 2012 with a BS in biology at a good private school with a 3.6 GPA (sGPA is higher, can't recall it right now), 28 MCAT. I had great extracurriculars including leadership positions with extended involvement, volunteering and shadowing. Also had jobs as a scribe, in a lab and a few normal college jobs like barista and tutor. I got lots of medical exposure in college and loved it.

Bottom line is I took the MCAT right after my junior year, was mildly disappointed in my score but told by my pre-med advisor that I could definitely get into a few MD schools with my extracurriculars and recommendations. I sat down to write my personal statement and couldn't get it out. I realized that I'd lost myself in the chase. I needed some time to mull everything over and kind of figure out who I was.

Just to be clear, I wanted and still want a career in medicine more than anything else. But first, I needed to pay the bills (private school wasn't cheap) so I took a respectable job at a lab. I've always thought about joining the military and I decided that I wanted to try my hand at it before I decided on some kind of HPSP type program. I was commissioned in May of 2013.

I'm currently in training but having doubts about whether the military is really for me. I'm not having academic or disclipinary issues; I just don't know if this is the life I want for the next 7 years. And medicine is still calling me.

After all that exposition, my question is this: Would it look bad on an application if I resigned my commission early?

Thanks for any help.

Do at least 3 years and then you can qualify for the GI bill and use it for medical school. It covers full tuition if you go to a state school. Think of these years as preparing you and paying for medical school. Also, thoroughly document any injuries or medical conditions and you could get some VA disability payments. I have a 40% and it makes a nice chunk of change when you're on the GI bill stipend and you may even qualify for vocational rehab. Save money while you're in and you can definitely have nice nest egg so you don't have to live like a student.

Also, I don't know why you would sign a contract that obligates you for 6 years of AD service if you still wanted to go to medical school. My initial contract was for 3 years. I did get in a medical AOC so my training wasn't as long. I ended up doing 5 1/2 years and getting my UG loans paid off. I applied while I was still in (dress blues make for a nice interview suit, lol) and got out about 3 months before starting school.

 

[abn632]

I just checked out the USUHS page. Apparently you can apply while still on active duty, though I don't know if that's geared toward enlisted or all grades. Average MCAT is a 30, however, so you may want to consider retaking it.

What did you branch (or whatever the term is nowadays)?

 

[restlessdriven]

xffan624, my designator is Student Naval Flight Officer and that's just the set requirement for time in. I thought that if I really enjoyed the military, an extra 15 years tacked on would be no problem and take me straight through to retirement. Thanks for the tips on the GI Bill and the VA stuff.

abn632, I looked into USUHS when I first had in mind to apply. Not sure it would be a good fit now. I will definitely be retaking the MCAT at some point. Thanks for looking though!

 

[hugomaaf]

My wife was an active O1 in the Air Force and decide to go to med school. She have 3.4 SGPA and OGPA, and underg in Bio med engineering. 26 in MCAT.

She didn't apply for the UHSTHs but instead apply for the HPSP for the military personnel.

I know that all services have separate HPSP spots for their current member, u can look into that. Basically u apply to the med school u want, and hopefully got accepted then submit the paperwork require by the HPSP board.

My wife apply to 7 DO schools (she wanted to be a DO instead if MD) and got 6 interviews , she decided to go to 3 of them ($ issue) and got acceptance in all 3. The military background is definitely good for the application.

And the AF just officially granted her the HPSP scholarship so she will continue to serve her commitment as a Dr after she graduate (adding the new commitment time from the HPSP)

 

[Shjanzey]

Your best bet is to transition into medicine while you are still in the military. You are locked in for the next 7 years.

Good luck. The military is a pretty fantastic life.

 

[medic86]

The military doesn't let you resign your commission until you've completed your obligation. (There may be exceptions for extenuating circumstances, but finding out it's not your dream isn't one of them.) Going AWOL or otherwise giving them reason to rescind your commission (never passing a PT test or height/weight) will result in a dishonorable discharge which would DEFINITELY look bad. I know former soldiers with dishonorable discharges who now can't even get a job at McDonald's. Depending on what you signed for you are probably doing 4 years active and 3 years IRR?

Look at your contract, but expect to continue your military experience. Military experience looks good at application time to medical school. I recommend you make the best of it, stick it out, and maybe try for a medical AOC that will help more in the med school process.

Eh. They'll kick you out for being a PT s***bag, but it won't be a dishonorable. (I am not recommending this, by the way)

To the OP: do your time, study/take the MCAT, and apply to medical school around when you'll be able to resign your commission.

 

[masterchef876]

OP, I'm currently about to get out of the military. I went US Army. Depending on your commissioning source, Officer Candidate School has a 3 year active duty service obligation(ADSO). ROTC has a four year ADSO. And Westpoint has a five year ADSO. Your full general service obligation is 8 years. I graduated from officer candidate school, so by the time i put in my resignation I will have completed about four years of my contract. The army has the reserve component for either national guard, army reserves or individual ready reserve (this is what I am doing) where you finish off the rest of your obiligation. With IRR, you pretty much go back to civilian life but the army can call you back if necessary. Unless some major conflict happens, IRR most likely won't happen, but it is possible.

Focus on making yourself the best leader you can. I have a similar background to you with a strong desire to join the military and practice medicine. I was a transportation officer. Leading Soldiers on convoys in Afghanistan is like no other feeling in the world. Take this opportunity to meet some amazing people and save a lot of money.

Keep in mind that if the military has already paid for your college with a ROTC scholarship, your GI BIll will not start until you serve a few years in the military. Once you get those years done, you still need to serve at least 36 straight months of active duty to get 100% of the 9/11 GI Bill.

Just hit me up if you have any other questions.

 

[jayoh]

xffan624, my designator is Student Naval Flight Officer and that's just the set requirement for time in. I thought that if I really enjoyed the military, an extra 15 years tacked on would be no problem and take me straight through to retirement. Thanks for the tips on the GI Bill and the VA stuff.

abn632, I looked into USUHS when I first had in mind to apply. Not sure it would be a good fit now. I will definitely be retaking the MCAT at some point. Thanks for looking though!

It's probably worth considering that your lifestyle in training is going to be dramatically different/worse than when you're in the fleet. Maybe you'll like it more when you're done with your training?

 

[11B2MD]

Some of these responses are way off the mark. First off, you CAN NOT be dishonorably discharged for failing a PT test or failing height/weight standards. The people who do fail these events are given ample time to correct this issue and if the issue isn't corrected within a specified time frame they are separated with an honorable discharge and receive a Re-Entry Code (RE-Code) of 3. There are four RE-Codes and the 3 means that the individual can reenter the military provided they have met any required waiting periods and they now meet the standards. Separations like these are known as administrative separations. Going AWOL is never a good idea, but even if you did you wouldn't necessarily receive a dishonorable discharge, unless there were other combined factors leading to judicial punishment.

Since you're a young officer and have yet to experience or gain this knowledge here's some good info for your SA (situational awareness). There are two forms of punishment that can/will result in separation (known as punitive actions) - non-judicial (article 15) and judicial. Non-judicial punishment is where a local commander makes the determination of your punishment, however he/she cannot give a dishonorable discharge. The only things that the local commander can do, based on their rank, is reduce the individual in rank, take away a portion of their base pay, assign to extra-duty, and restrict the individual to a specified location/area. Judicial punishment is the only path that can result in a dishonorable discharge and is essentially the same thing as a supreme court in the civilian sector. The individual charged will be found guilty or innocent by a panel of his/her peers and a military judge will determine punishment and discharge type if applicable.

As far as your service is concerned I recommend that you stick with it and learn everything you can. As an officer it is your responsibility and DUTY to the American tax-payer to provide OUTSTANDING leadership to the men and women you are responsible for. Remember those same men and women are also tax-payers and they deserve the very best you have to offer. Military service isn't intended to be fun or enjoyable - it is service after all. You can expect a great deal of satisfaction though. Good luck!

My source for this information is myself, 12 yr military veteran still on active duty (U.S. Army) and a Non-Commissioned Officer.

 

[xffan624]

Some of these responses are way off the mark. First off, you CAN NOT be dishonorably discharged for failing a PT test or failing height/weight standards. The people who do fail these events are given ample time to correct this issue and if the issue isn't corrected within a specified time frame they are separated with an honorable discharge and receive a Re-Entry Code (RE-Code) of 3. There are four RE-Codes and the 3 means that the individual can reenter the military provided they have met any required waiting periods and they now meet the standards. Separations like these are known as administrative separations. Going AWOL is never a good idea, but even if you did you wouldn't necessarily receive a dishonorable discharge, unless there were other combined factors leading to judicial punishment.

Since you're a young officer and have yet to experience or gain this knowledge here's some good info for your SA (situational awareness). There are two forms of punishment that can/will result in separation (known as punitive actions) - non-judicial (article 15) and judicial. Non-judicial punishment is where a local commander makes the determination of your punishment, however he/she cannot give a dishonorable discharge. The only things that the local commander can do, based on their rank, is reduce the individual in rank, take away a portion of their base pay, assign to extra-duty, and restrict the individual to a specified location/area. Judicial punishment is the only path that can result in a dishonorable discharge and is essentially the same thing as a supreme court in the civilian sector. The individual charged will be found guilty or innocent by a panel of his/her peers and a military judge will determine punishment and discharge type if applicable.

As far as your service is concerned I recommend that you stick with it and learn everything you can. As an officer it is your responsibility and DUTY to the American tax-payer to provide OUTSTANDING leadership to the men and women you are responsible for. Remember those same men and women are also tax-payers and they deserve the very best you have to offer. Military service isn't intended to be fun or enjoyable - it is service after all. You can expect a great deal of satisfaction though. Good luck!

My source for this information is myself, 12 yr military veteran still on active duty (U.S. Army) and a Non-Commissioned Officer.

My understanding is a PT failure or weight standards failure can result in a general discharge (not will, but has the possibility). Which for GI bill purposes can make you ineligible. Also, be careful in giving advice to OP about punishment. The punishment for enlisted vs. officers does have some differences. Most non-judicials for officers will not result in loss of rank, pay, assignment of extra duty, or restriction of movement. The standard non-judicial punishment for officers is a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand (GOMOR). This basically sinks your career and can get you referred to big Army to a show cause board (where you have to defend that you still belong in the military). All this discussion is for the Army and OP is doing the Navy which also has its own way of doing things (Captain's mast, etc).

Regardless, this is all theoretical. I think the OP's biggest mistake was entering training that extends his commitment beyond the standard time. He might find it difficult to get out short of his obligation and still maintain his benefits. (still not clear the obligation he refers to is all AD time). I knew an ROTC AD officer who tried to get out and do HPSP prior to her ROTC commitment. It had to go all the way to the Army Surgeon General's office (she was an AMEDD officer) and I think was eventually approved, but too late to start the school and she had to defer for the year. This was after she had already deferred the year before due to her obligation (why she applied so early, I have no idea, she lacked common sense).

Medical discharge might be another option (another one that might affect your GI bill benefits) . I'm not saying to fake or create an injury, just don't ignore injuries or pains if they come up.

 

[masterchef876]

restlessdriven, go reread your contract and anything else you signed that would extend enlisted. I'm not sure if the navy has it, but also look at your Officer Record Brief. This will no doubt show you how long your active duty service obligation is and the month/year you are authorized to leave the navy. From there you can plan out a course of action.

 

[Glycereine]

Wish I had seen this post earlier but hopefully I'm not too late to offer some insight.

His 6 year committment is 100% correct and is a result of going NFO. There are usually some ways to get out of that prior to completing training, however all would look bad on future applications for anything, including medical school. They woudn't result in a dishonorable discharge, but a DOR would not be favorable and only an admissions committee that didn't know ANYTHING about the military would overlook the fact that you were an officer for such a short period of time.

I wouldn't call it a mistake because Naval Aviation is awesome, but it is interesting that you picked a pipeline which such a long training track and huge investment for the Navy (which is why it has a 6 or 7 year obligation with it). NFO and NA are typically positions people go for that want a career in the, not to try out the military...

I've been in Naval Aviation for 9 years now and don't have an obligation and am applying to USUHS this cycle. The biggest difference between us is timing. I love the Navy and am staying in even through and after medical school if able to. It's not for everyone and you don't know whether it is for you yet. I would like to ask you what it is you don't like? Perhaps I can shed light on how that may change after your training. Are you to the point of picking an aircraft yet? That also makes a fairly big difference, although I think now it may only be F/A-18 NFOs being trained as the rest are being phased out.

A few people had advocated sticking with it and I'm one for that as well. What you can do is apply to USUHS or HPSP, BUT you have to get approval and usually be done with your current commitment. That said you're looking at a pretty healthy wait for medical school. I don't know the specific procedures to get redesignated from Student NFO to somewhere like USUHS, but it is a possiblity, and it would only be 1 more year than the committment you'd have otherwise, and at least it would be served as a doctor.

I can't speak from experience on the medical side, but I can as far as the releases and permission to apply go as well as the Navy in general and Naval Aviation specifically. PM me if you have any questions that you think I can answer that you may not want to voice publically.

 

[LupaCupcake]

<--military vet here

First off, if you signed the dotted line then you are in. Accept it and deal with it. It will look good on your application, but trying to bail out of it now will not look good. Make it work, no reason you can't have both.

 

[rangerdad]

Read AR 600-8-24, AR 350-100, AR 600-100. Also talk to the legal office or TDS in your base. Completing your commitment should be the honorable thing to do, but if you are going to be unhappy then apply for one of the many REFRAD categories as per the regulations. It is better for you, the Soldiers and the military, instead of having you as a mediocre leader. The steps are in place if you really want to get out. Talk to the chain of command and write the memorandums. Understand that is a long process but is doable. Look up Unqualified Resignation (if you finished OBC) or INV. REFRAD (resign from course) before finishing to prevent a bigger ADSO. You can still request a waiver from your ADSO and complete it in the IR. The military is cutting personnel so you may have more options. Call HRC's Officer and Separation branch (google it).

My opinion is based in my own experiences. PM for further help.

Good luck to all non-trads, and thank you for inspiring me!!!