Pre-doctoral intern/extern

[Neuroplast]

I've seen neuropsychologists list these before on their CV's and wanted to know what does a pre-doctoral inter or extern entails? I assume it's something thats done before getting into a doctoral degree so where would I find such information on places that offers this and requirements. Specifically in the South Florida area or Broward County. Thanks.

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[WisNeuro]

An intern is just the internship they did as the last step before getting their doctorate. This is a formal process in which you apply, get matched, etc. Check out the APPIC website, or do a search here on internships. Externships are something that is done during the course of your grad training in places that your school has designated as such by that program. You'll have to check with them about that.

 

[erg923]

I've seen neuropsychologists list these before on their CV's and wanted to know what does a pre-doctoral inter or extern entails? I assume it's something thats done before getting into a doctoral degree so where would I find such information on places that offers this and requirements. Specifically in the South Florida area or Broward County. Thanks.

No, its training one get during their doctoral studies. Extern is training during the program, whereas intern/internship is the final training experience (usually full-time) before being awarded the doctorate.

 

[Neuroplast]

So right now I am about to start on a clinical training (part-time) at a behavioral clinic while I am doing my Masters in ABA, so will this be considered a pre-doctoral externship correct?

 

[WisNeuro]

So right now I am about to start on a clinical training (part-time) at a behavioral clinic while I am doing my Masters in ABA, so will this be considered a pre-doctoral externship?

Essentially, or a practicum placement, interchangeable terms.

 

[WisNeuro]

Pre-master's, more accurately. Pre-doctoral is typically used to denote training that occurs within the context of a doctoral program.

What he said, I missed the master's part. This is important when it comes to APPIC application time because you will have to denote these differently.

 

[Neuroplast]

Oh ok, so I wouldn't be qualified for this yet until I'm in my doctorate then.

 

[WisNeuro]

Well, you're not a doctoral student, so, technically no. It's just a clinical practicum placement, but it's similar. People list these things in various ways on their CV anyway. Like a separate section for clinical experiences in general. Although once you're actually in a career, small clinical placements get dropped from the CV.

 

[ClinicalABA]

So right now I am about to start on a clinical training (part-time) at a behavioral clinic while I am doing my Masters in ABA, so will this be considered a pre-doctoral externship correct?

You need to be careful with terms when crossing disciplines (e.g. psychology vs. ABA). If you are are working towards your BCBA and you are using the behavioral clinic work to fulfill BCBA certification requirements, then it would technically, depending on course credit received and ratio of supervision hours:clinical hours, be classified as Supervised Independent Fieldwork, Practicum, or Intensive Practicum. These are the terms used by the Behavior Analyst Certification Board as official designations, and the required hours are based on the type of experience. There is no real "official" or universal use of the term "internship" in masters level ABA training, as least where preparing students for BCBA eligibility is the goal of the program.

There are also different designations within psychological training programs. In my program, all supervised work for which you received course credit while still an "in house" student was called "practicum." Some programs may refer to the these as "externships." In doctoral psychology education, the term "internship" generally refers to a formal, full-time (sometimes half time) supervised work experience completed after all in-house requirements (e.g. classwork) has been completed. The equivalent of ~one year full time supervised work, with didactic requirements within the clinical work setting, is generally a requirement for graduation (this is referred to as the "pre-doctoral internship", and the process of getting/not getting one is complicated, goofy, and frequently discussed on these forums. Students completing their pre-doctoral internship are usually called "interns." Most jurisdictions (i.e. States) require an additional equivalent of ~ one year supervised clinical experience following attainment of the doctoral degree in order to be eligible for licensure as a psychologist. This supervised experience is often call a "post-doctoral internship" or "post-doctoral fellowships." Clinicians completing this experience are often called "post-docs" or "fellows." This is all very general, and can differ (though the whole "pre-doctoral" internship thing is pretty much standard (universal?) in doctoral level clinical, counseling, and (maybe?) school psychologist training geared to future licensure as a doctoral level psychologist.

 

[Neuroplast]

Thanks ClinicalABA, so this would be classified as Supervised Fieldwork/Practicum based on BACB guidelines then. Where would something like this be put on a CV? (Beginning, second part) I have research lab experiences and I have this first on the CV. By the way are you a behavior therapist by any chance?

 

[ClinicalABA]

Thanks ClinicalABA, so this would be classified as Supervised Fieldwork/Practicum based on BACB guidelines then. Where would something like this be put on a CV? (Beginning, second part) I have research lab experiences and I have this first on the CV. By the way are you a behavior therapist by any chance?

Neuroplast- Yes, I am a psychologist and behavior analyst. If you plan on using your experience in support of an application to be a BCBA, you'll need to be receiving supervision from a BCBA. Moreso, both you and the supervision will need to pass an online supervision training module on the BCBA website, and the supervisor will need to take an 8-hour supervision training module. You will also need to document your supervised experience every other week on an approved form (available at the BACB website). Are you in an BACB approved ABA masters program?

 

[Neuroplast]

Yes I am, my program will lead to the licensure for BCBA, and it is credited by the BACB. I am actually about to start my clinical supervision hours, I am in contact with my supervisor and he will be supervising me. I I didn't know about the tracking sheet inforation that I have to get from the BACB website.

It's nice to hear from a person that has been through the same steps as I am. I will be done next year with my ABA program and will sit for the exam. After that I will be doing either a Ph.D/PsD in Clinical Psych with a Neuropsych track. How was your road and how did you get to where you are now? I'm interested on what you did to get where you are as I am in the same trajectory/how long and waht is your specialty? Thanks.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Yes I am, my program will lead to the licensure for BCBA, and it is credited by the BACB. I am actually about to start my clinical supervision hours, I am in contact with my supervisor and he will be supervising me. I I didn't know about the tracking sheet inforation that I have to get from the BACB website.

It's nice to hear from a person that has been through the same steps as I am. I will be done next year with my ABA program and will sit for the exam. After that I will be doing either a Ph.D/PsD in Clinical Psych with a Neuropsych track. How was your road and how did you get to where you are now? I'm interested on what you did to get where you are as I am in the same trajectory/how long and waht is your specialty? Thanks.

You should definitely check out http://bacb.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/150824-experience-standards-english.pdf for info on the forms you need to maintain for your supervision. You'll need a form completed for each supervision period (which is likely every 2 weeks, but dependent on the type of experience). All your experience is moot and will not be counted if either you or your supervisor has not completed the BACB online supervisor training, or if your supervisor has not completed a BACB approved 8-hour supervisor training course. You should ask your supervisor for proof, which can be obtained from his/her account on the BACB website. I'm curious about your program and supervision to this point- This should not be new information. I teach the first course in a BACB approved course sequence, and we go over the supervision requirements (and require students to take the online BACB training) at the first class.

My path to what I do know was a little crooked. I was working as a Behavioral Coordinator at a specialized geriatric setting (clients too physically ill for psych placements, too mentally ill for nursing homes). We had a practicum student from the local university, and she encouraged me to speak with her adviser. Long story short, I ended up getting applying and getting accepted to the clinical Ph.D. program. Thesis and Diss. research focused on behavioral problems of the institutionalized elderly. Pre-doc clinical internship major rotation was school consultation (mainly ABA), with minor rotation in urban adult outpatient clinic (CBT and, honestly, a lot of case management stuff). Post-doc (informal- more of a job with supervision), was 1/2 time at school for children with ASD, 1/2 adult residential (ID, PDD, MH) consultation. Have since worked in schools for children with acquired brain injury, oversaw consultation services out of a specialty pediatric clinic, and clinical director of adult residential agency. I have adjuncted in graduate ABA and mental health counseling programs. Now I do diagnostic assessments on toddler suspected of ASD (under psych licensure), as well as home-based BCBA supervision and parent training, as well as school consulation. I got my BCBA-D a few years after my psych license, under a portfolio review option (required 10-years post doctorate and a history of ABA work, teaching, and research). I honestly don't encounter a lot (any?) folks hwo due the BCBA first and then go on to clinical doctorate- the ABA coursework just does't apply and transfer all that well.

 

[Neuroplast]

My trainings/classes thus far have been based through Autism Training Solutions (ATS/Relias) along with research on behavioral interventions, ethical guidelines, writing papers, and such, and have not come across any courses on supervision, at least not yet. However, there is a capstone at the end of the program so I would presume this has something to do with it. Once I get in contact with my supervisor I will surely ask him of this.

That sounds like substantial work you have there, the reason I got into the Masters in ABA is because it pairs research with clinical work, being that I have already done numerous work on different behavioral problems and even done some testing with intervention plans. My ultimate goal however is to focus on brain and behavior which is why I will later be pursuing the doctorate in clinical psych with focus on clincial neuropsych, and since I will still be in an environment where both research and clinical work is involved, it is something I like, but don't know if I want to target either pediatrics or geriatrics in the long run. I'm concerned you say that it's uncommon for someone with an ABA degree go into clinical psych though. Is this something that would be limiting me?

 

[ClinicalABA]

My trainings/classes thus far have been based through Autism Training Solutions (ATS/Relias) along with research on behavioral interventions, ethical guidelines, writing papers, and such, and have not come across any courses on supervision, at least not yet. However, there is a capstone at the end of the program so I would presume this has something to do with it. Once I get in contact with my supervisor I will surely ask him of this.

For the BCBA certification, formal supervision can begin as soon as you start classes. It's unusual to wait until the end of training to begin accruing hours.

That sounds like substantial work you have there, the reason I got into the Masters in ABA is because it pairs research with clinical work, being that I have already done numerous work on different behavioral problems and even done some testing with intervention plans. My ultimate goal however is to focus on brain and behavior which is why I will later be pursuing the doctorate in clinical psych with focus on clincial neuropsych, and since I will still be in an environment where both research and clinical work is involved, it is something I like, but don't know if I want to target either pediatrics or geriatrics in the long run. I'm concerned you say that it's uncommon for someone with an ABA degree go into clinical psych though. Is this something that would be limiting me?

I don't think there is anything limiting at all about getting the ABA degree before the clinical. There just isn't a lot of overlap, so you'd basically being starting the doctoral program from the beginning, without much of the ABA coursework, if any, applying to the clinical doctoral degree. It's not a bad way of doing things- It's just a lot of schooling.

 

[Neuroplast]

Ahh I see, I began to notice when I started to talk to classmates that have already been accumulating their hours at a behavior clinic. Well I'm in the path then.

Would you recommend I get a graduate certificate in neuropsychology or neuroscience to get (or show?) more exposure since I would already have some courses before jumping into the Ph.d/PsyD?