Pre-Med Questions about Military Medicine

[JPSmyth]

Hey guys, I am an undergrad currently applying to medical schools. For the past year or so I have been thinking about going into military medicine at some point in my career. I don't think I necessarily want a full career in the military, but I would like to serve my country for a few years, and get the experiences that one can only get in the military.

It seems hard to find all of the information about this, so I wanted to ask on here. I don't think I plan on applying to USUHS, the time commitment seems really long from what I've looked into. (Residency + 7 years, 4 active?)

My plan is to attend a regular medical school, complete a residency, and then once I am a board certified physician to join. From what I am seeing, the time commitment is 2 years active duty for the Navy.

I wanted to ask some questions...
2 years active duty means being deployed somewhere overseas (or in the states?), but in between those stints, would I be working in a VA hospital?

Is it 4 year commitment with 2 years active duty?

How long is each deployment usually?

Where are some examples of usual places physicians are deployed?

Basically any input you guys can give me would be helpful. Every website just gives a very broad overview of the process. Thank you.

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[Red Lobster Actual]

My plan is to attend a regular medical school, complete a residency, and then once I am a board certified physician to join. From what I am seeing, the time commitment is 2 years active duty for the Navy.

So you are asking a question about something that will occur in 8-10 years?...Why don't you focus on getting into med school first and then getting into residency? Just saying from personal experience that 8-10 years ago I did not know I wanted to go to medical school.

Is it 4 year commitment with 2 years active duty?

I'm pretty sure your concept on time commitments is...hmmm. A 4 year commitment is 4 years active duty plus a few more years in IRR (which basically means when the Chinese invade us you'll be the first to be called prior to a draft or at will by POTUS). And for USUHS, those 7 years are spent all in active duty.

2 years active duty means being deployed somewhere overseas (or in the states?), but in between those stints, would I be working in a VA hospital?

You can be deployed overseas or within the USA. You will NOT be working in a VA hospital. That is it's own system.

How long is each deployment usually?

Variable between services but anywhere from a few months to a year...or more...

Where are some examples of usual places physicians are deployed?

Feel free to wikipedia or google maps these locations for the Navy: Diego Garcia, Guam, Twenty Nine Palms, Lemoore, Fallon, Groton, Camp Lejeune, Guantanamo Bay...those are the poopiest places I can think of off the top of my head. Always assume the worst...

But if your plan is to board certify first and then join up that will change up the equation on where you might be stationed and deployed.

Goodluck on your application this coming cycle.

 

[logos1226]

I don't recommend USUHS unless you're planning on doing the 20 year. The time commitment is easily over 10 years, not including the 4 years in USUHS.

Active duty means you're working full-time in the military and does not mean deployment. Deployment usually means going to Iraq, Afganistan, etc. Germany, Japan, Korea, etc. are overseas assignment and are not considered deployment. We cannot tell you how likely you will be deployed 10 years from now. But, when we had the Iraq War going, almost everyone got deployed at least once, some multiple times.

If you don't get deployed, then you will work in one of the many military posts in the states and overseas. Examples include Fort Hood, Fort Campbell, Naval Base San Diego, etc. I doubt they will put you in a VA hospital. If you want, you can get employed at a VA hospital as a civilian though.

For the Army, each deployment is about one year. I cannot comment on other branches. In general, it ranges from 6 months to 12 months.

Physicians can get deployed pretty much everywhere just like other officers and soldiers. If you join the Navy, your deployment may be on a ship.

If you're looking for military experiences, I doubt you will get much as an attending medical officer for 2 year though. If you work in a hospital (unless deployed), your days will be pretty much like those of a civilian, besides from wearing the uniform. Now if you really want to experience the military and don't mind delaying your medical education by a few years, you could enlist for a few years before going to medical school. You could then gain real military experiences and also use the GI bill to help pay for your medical school education.

 

[JPSmyth]

So you are asking a question about something that will occur in 8-10 years?...Why don't you focus on getting into med school first and then getting into residency? Just saying from personal experience that 8-10 years ago I did not know I wanted to go to medical school.



I'm pretty sure your concept on time commitments is...hmmm. A 4 year commitment is 4 years active duty plus a few more years in IRR (which basically means when the Chinese invade us you'll be the first to be called prior to a draft or at will by POTUS). And for USUHS, those 7 years are spent all in active duty.



You can be deployed overseas or within the USA. You will NOT be working in a VA hospital. That is it's own system.



Variable between services but anywhere from a few months to a year...or more...



Feel free to wikipedia or google maps these locations for the Navy: Diego Garcia, Guam, Twenty Nine Palms, Lemoore, Fallon, Groton, Camp Lejeune, Guantanamo Bay...those are the poopiest places I can think of off the top of my head. Always assume the worst...

But if your plan is to board certify first and then join up that will change up the equation on where you might be stationed and deployed.

Goodluck on your application this coming cycle.

Thank you. I'm just looking into my options as for USUHS, HPSP, FAP and then this last one of just joining the military as an already practicing physician.

Also, so the 2 - 4 years active duty means multiple stints that are a few months - years long. I was just asking, what do you do in between "active duty?" As a physician, lets say you're stationed at a base somewhere for 8 months, what do you do when you get home? Just because you are not active doesn't mean that you are not practicing in a branch of the military at the time?

Appreciate the input.

 

[JPSmyth]

I don't recommend USUHS unless you're planning on doing the 20 year. The time commitment is easily over 10 years, not including the 4 years in USUHS.

Active duty means you're working full-time in the military and does not mean deployment. Deployment usually means going to Iraq, Afganistan, etc. Germany, Japan, Korea, etc. are overseas assignment and are not considered deployment. We cannot tell you how likely you will be deployed 10 years from now. But, when we had the Iraq War going, almost everyone got deployed at least once, some multiple times.

If you don't get deployed, then you will work in one of the many military posts in the states and overseas. Examples include Fort Hood, Fort Campbell, Naval Base San Diego, etc. I doubt they will put you in a VA hospital. If you want, you can get employed at a VA hospital as a civilian though.

For the Army, each deployment is about one year. I cannot comment on other branches. In general, it ranges from 6 months to 12 months.

Physicians can get deployed pretty much everywhere just like other officers and soldiers. If you join the Navy, your deployment may be on a ship.

If you're looking for military experiences, I doubt you will get much as an attending medical officer for 2 year though. If you work in a hospital (unless deployed), your days will be pretty much like those of a civilian, besides from wearing the uniform. Now if you really want to experience the military and don't mind delaying your medical education by a few years, you could enlist for a few years before going to medical school. You could then gain real military experiences and also use the GI bill to help pay for your medical school education.

Thank you. I'm looking into HPSP or FAP for a 4-5 year commitment too. As you said, the USUHS time commitment seems very long. I have no military experience, so I don't want to sign up for something with a 10+ year commitment that I may regret. Would HPSP or FAP provide better experiences in your opinion?

 

[logos1226]

The advantages of HPSP or FAP over USUHS for you are:

1. Less years of service owed
2. You get to choose where you go medical school (HPSP & FAP)
3. More freedom of choice with residency programs. (FAP)

In terms of military experiences as a military doc, there is no notable difference among the three options. Whether you get real military experiences will depend on whether you will get deployed. When I was deployed to Iraq, we had an attending physician join the military to serve in Iraq. I would say he gained great military experiences (i.e. living in tent, desert, seeing wounded Iraqis and soldiers, working with limited resource, etc.)

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Also, so the 2 - 4 years active duty means multiple stints that are a few months - years long. I was just asking, what do you do in between "active duty?"

Umm...there is nothing "in between" active duty. If you don't go overseas you'll just be in a clinic or hospital stateside. In uniform. In the military. You might be thinking of the Reserves maybe?

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Thank you. I'm just looking into my options as for USUHS, HPSP, FAP and then this last one of just joining the military as an already practicing physician.

Also, so the 2 - 4 years active duty means multiple stints that are a few months - years long. I was just asking, what do you do in between "active duty?" As a physician, lets say you're stationed at a base somewhere for 8 months, what do you do when you get home? Just because you are not active doesn't mean that you are not practicing in a branch of the military at the time?

Appreciate the input.

"Active Duty" means that you are in the military. It's not who you work for a few months at a time. I was on "Active Duty" for 7 years. During that time, you live where they tell you, work where they tell you and do what they tell you. You don't have another job somewhere else. You are a military officer, all the time.

There are some reserve options that are on again off again, but those aren't "active duty". The programs you are talking about mean you join the military as your full time employer.

 

[TurtleDO2012]

JPSmyth you're pretty green and naive about the entire military concept. I would seriously not waste another thought on pursuring the military until you have at the very least been accepted to medical school. Numerous forums debate the merit of the various options on joining and the differene between them. Basic thing to remember- The better the money gets the longer and less control you have over all aspects of your life.

If you have a patriotic need to serve and want that true military experience then go to medical school and residency completely without any assistance from the military, get board certified in whatever you want. If a war breaks out after being board certified then please jump full feet in and join whatever branch you want for however long you want. This route will be so much more powerful for you individually since you will be signing to serve and the other benefits of getting some type of a loan repayment or medical school paid for will not be involved and cloud your decision making. Starting active duty say at 36 is likely going to be better for you then joining at 26 in general terms.

You'll likely have civillian experience that majority of your fellow physicians won't have. It certaintly won't be a disadvantage. You will come in at a rank that meets your level of experience so you could direct comission to an O-3, O-4, or O-5. You will likely also be in a better position to dictate where you want to go and what you initally want to pursue in terms of assignment of course within reality of the current military needs.

At 36 your life will likely be firmer in terms of having kids or not, married or single, you likely worked in the civillian environment for maybe 3-6 years, have a reasonable grasp of what that means and know what your leaving . So when you join at 36 you actually will be able to know what you are losing and gaining in real costs. The shortest comittment would be 2 years at that time. During that first year you'll have some form of inital officer training that eats up a few months, in processing and getting oriented to new hospital which all together might eat up a few months and then finally working.

If you end up loving it and serve 20 years or more then you'll be 56 and not 46 and certaintly not the first or the last person to follow that kind of plan. Maybe during that 20 year career you'll do another residency or a fellowship you never thought of initially. You could also hate it after 1 year and return to civillian practice.

If looking for other ways to get things paid for- http://www.hcplive.com/contributor/...veness-programs-every-physician-needs-to-know

 

[JPSmyth]

JPSmyth you're pretty green and naive about the entire military concept.

I know, I apologize for sounding naive but I am very in the dark about this. I'm not just doing it to pay off loans. As a doctor I know that I'll be able to afford paying off loans based off salary alone. But I want to join regardless, I want to be a part of the military and treat sailors, marines and their families. (My father was a marine and my brother is going to officer school soon)

I am looking into HPSP and FAP. I know that residency seems like a very long time away, but in reality I am applying to medical school in a few months and if I want to go the HPSP route don't you need to sign on before entering medical school?

With HPSP, you have to do a military residency, correct? DO and MD students can apply for the same military residencies? (Not sure what specialty I want to go into)

Also, I haven't seen any recent posts about this but back in 05 on this forum they said the Navy was phasing out GMOs and only 30% of people do them now? In 2015 are they even more rare? On here people make them out to be a negative thing

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

if I want to go the HPSP route don't you need to sign on before entering medical school?

Applying and matriculating into medical school takes an entire year. Focus on getting your primaries in and once you're done with that take a long and hard look throughout this subforum and keep on reading. If you haven't yet, start shadowing military physicians or veterans if you can find them. If you STILL want to do this, you can google the various branches recruiting websites and they will give you all the necessary contact information to start getting the HPSP application ball rolling.

With HPSP, you have to do a military residency, correct? DO and MD students can apply for the same military residencies?

This has been answered many times before, read this sub-forum more carefully or use the search function. Short answer: Yes, you'll do a military residency. Military doesn't differentiate between MD or DO in general.

Also, I haven't seen any recent posts about this but back in 05 on this forum they said the Navy was phasing out GMOs and only 30% of people do them now? In 2015 are they even more rare? On here people make them out to be a negative thing

You join the Navy, expect to delay your residency by at least 3-4 years as a GMO. They been "trying" to phase out GMOs for the last three decades...

 

[JPSmyth]

Applying and matriculating into medical school takes an entire year. Focus on getting your primaries in and once you're done with that take a long and hard look throughout this subforum and keep on reading. If you haven't yet, start shadowing military physicians or veterans if you can find them. If you STILL want to do this, you can google the various branches recruiting websites and they will give you all the necessary contact information to start getting the HPSP application ball rolling.



This has been answered many times before, read this sub-forum more carefully or use the search function. Short answer: Yes, you'll do a military residency. Military doesn't differentiate between MD or DO in general.



You join the Navy, expect to delay your residency by at least 3-4 years as a GMO. They been "trying" to phase out GMOs for the last three decades...

Thank you. I was initially strongly leading toward Navy medicine because of its association with Marines, and it seems like it has better residency locations (SD, Portsmouth, Bethesda as the big 3?) but from what I'm reading on here, I should avoid GMOs. Does Army have anything comparable to a GMO where they pull you out after internship year before going on to residency? Thank you again for the help. So many links are broken as I'm looking through this stuff I keep hitting dead ends on other sites to find information

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Thank you. I was initially strongly leading toward Navy medicine because of its association with Marines, and it seems like it has better residency locations (SD, Portsmouth, Bethesda as the big 3?) but from what I'm reading on here, I should avoid GMOs. Does Army have anything comparable to a GMO where they pull you out after internship year before going on to residency? Thank you again for the help. So many links are broken as I'm looking through this stuff I keep hitting dead ends on other sites to find information

Ah, the Army does have GMOs, they just call them "battalion surgeons". And they don't pull you out after intern year. They pull you out after you finish your residency and board certification. You might be able to dodge that bullet...but you might not...

Like one of the previous posters mentioned, you wanna dodge the GMO pill, get board certified and then join up.

 

[JPSmyth]

Ah, the Army does have GMOs, they just call them "battalion surgeons". And they don't pull you out after intern year. They pull you out after you finish your residency and board certification. You might be able to dodge that bullet...but you might not...

Like one of the previous posters mentioned, you wanna dodge the GMO pill, get board certified and then join up.

Yeah, FAP might sound like a better option then. I was just reading that if I wanted to go into a more competitive specialty like anesthesiology, they strongly prefer applicants who have done a 2 year GMO tour so it's almost impossible to go straight through internship and residency in that case.

Thanks again, I'll let this thread die out and in a few years come back if I have any more questions.

 

[WernickeDO]

FYI, the Army will absolutely pull you into a GMO after your intern year. It's less common than in the Navy but it can still happen. I speak from experience.

OP, the stickies at the top of this forum will provide answers to nearly all of your questions.

 

[Aspiring Doctor1]

If any of you who did HPSP or FAP are reading this I was wondering is if you were to do it over, would you make the same decision (or possibly switch programs or just be a civilian physician), what would you change, and what are some of the things you wish you knew before doing either of these.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

If any of you who did HPSP or FAP are reading this I was wondering is if you were to do it over, would you make the same decision (or possibly switch programs or just be a civilian physician), what would you change, and what are some of the things you wish you knew before doing either of these.

I would NOT join the military to pay for medical school. It limits your options. I would've just taken out student loans.

Things re only getting worse. Don't join.

 

[Cap'n]

I posted this in another thread but everyone seems to have abandoned it. Hopefully, I can get some answers on this thread.

I am about to enter med school this August, and I'm seriously considering, after finishing med school and deciding what residency I want, pursuing military medicine through FAP. I'm open to HPSP but I want to get a lot more information before contacting any recruiters. I know a good majority of the people on the previous thread I went to have said NOOOOO don't do it. I respect that experience and having worked as a civilian with the Navy before, I have a vicarious understanding of the frustration with red tape and bureaucracy. However, I also have a great respect for the Navy that stems from my experience working with them for four years. I have a desire to serve the country. I know I might be able to serve the country as a civilian, but the military culture is something that appeals to me, at least for part of my career.

My question is this: if I decided to pursue a civilian residency in surgery (which is my primary interest right now, but of course this might change once I enter med school and get a taste for it during rotations), then enter the military through FAP, will this hinder, help, or have no impact on my ability to be a successful surgeon after leaving the military? Does it depend on the length of time one spends in the military?

Is any surgery done on medical mercy ships, like the USNS Mercy? What are the chances of a person landing a position on such a ship?

If you want to deploy on a ship, can you request it?

Thanks to anyone who might be able to answer these questions!

 

[deuist]

Germany, Japan, Korea, etc. are overseas assignment and are not considered deployment.

In the Air Force, deployments to Japan and Germany absolutely occur.

 

[deuist]

If any of you who did HPSP or FAP are reading this I was wondering is if you were to do it over, would you make the same decision (or possibly switch programs or just be a civilian physician), what would you change, and what are some of the things you wish you knew before doing either of these.

I wish I knew how much recruiters and commanders lie. I wish I knew how the military match worked back then and how abysmal the match statistics are for my specialty. I wish I had known that opportunities to do a fellowship right out of residency are quite limited. I wish I knew that 100% of the attributes that are prized in the civilian world (e.g., publications, clinical productivity, new ideas to speed up throughput…) are disregarded in the military and at the bulk of my time is spent doing anti-rape and anti-suicide training. So no, I would never have done it had I known a decade ago what I know now.