Premed Advisor might've wrote negative letter...

[fmpak93]

Alright so my university has a dumb system of interviewing students before they write you a recommendation letter. This letter is apparently based on 5 LORs from professors, your resume and a 8 page autobiography.

Now let's just say the interview did not go to well, and this advisor was being an idiot("You should really consider minoring in bio because you're physics major and they want bio","You have no LOR from bio majors, this will hurt you", "It seems you hate bio"(lol wut), "Volunteering is necessary in deciding to become a doctor." (lawl) ....Let's say I couldn't help but refute and disagree and we debated for a bit; consequently a bad interview.

She told me she thinks I should improve my application and apply next cycle, get a bio minor and more ECs, and really think if this is what I want.

And then she says, okay now I will take all your LORs and everything and write a composite letter for you and it should be sent in two weeks. and then gives me a ton of generic information and advice to approve my app. And now it's been sent to 26+ schools that I've sent a secondary too.

I'm paranoid because I think she might have wrote a negative letter given how the committee letter interview went. But then she also told me about how their committee revises other professor's letters to make sure they are not negative or will hurt the students chances. Wouldn't she not send it at all or refuse to write one if it was going to be a negative letter?

I swear this woman is gonna throw all my 2000$ worth of apps and years of effort into waste if she did write a negative composite letter.

"You should really minor in bio" ....what a joke of an adviser, thank god she left the committee last month.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[nm825]

Have you gotten any ii?

 

[fmpak93]

Have you gotten any ii?

- MCAT: 30 - sGPA: 3.5 - Okayish ECs

Sent 28 secondaries from Mid-Late July to August - 21 MD schools, 8 DO schools.

So far 2 MD rejections.

Besides that no interviews or rejections so far....(good or bad thing?)

 

[fmpak93]

Have you gotten any ii?

btw. The 2 rejections were from approx a month ago. It's been all silence since. Wouldn;t I be getting many many more rejections of the letter was truly bad? If they even got to reading my app in that case.

 

[cookiemonsters]

Your numbers are below average for MD so don't count on interview invites for those schools. No II's from DO schools is kinda surprising unless something else is wrong with your app.

 

[fmpak93]

Your numbers are below average for MD so don't count on interview invites for those schools. No II's from DO schools is kinda surprising unless something else is wrong with your app.

Um I didn't shadow a DO maybe? idk. UGH app cycles are too dreary. though i heard if your numbers are avg, you won't hear much replies until Nov/Dec.

 

[zzxxzz]

- MCAT: 30 - sGPA: 3.5 - Okayish ECs

Sent 28 secondaries from Mid-Late July to August - 21 MD schools, 8 DO schools.

So far 2 MD rejections.

Besides that no interviews or rejections so far....(good or bad thing?)

You're at best an average applicant, so don't expect much this early in the cycle. Schools are getting all of the superstars out of the way.

 

[PlaqueBuster]

Are you from UPitt?

 

[raiderette]

You say your ECs are okay, but she pointed out a weak spot in volunteering. What kind of non-clinical volunteering did you have? Did you have clinical volunteering. she may not have written a bad LOR, but adcoms may have seen weaknesses in your application as well.
And it is not too late to shadow a DO. You could then update your DO schools.
Not to be harsh, but not making an effort to shadow a DO comes off as a bit lazy.

 

[ithd]

Well, she is kinda right on the volunteering part. Nevertheless, my university also does interviews in preparation for the committee letter. I would like to say that, generally, your own school would not backstab you like that. I imagine that committees do mention how enthusiastic (on some sort of scale) they are about a particular applicant, but I have no evidence to back up my claim.

 

[Ismet]

Are you from UPitt?

No, those are not the requirements for the committee at Pitt. There's no interview and no autobiography, just your PS and a couple other things.

 

[gettheleadout]

No, those are not the requirements for the committee at Pitt. There's no interview and no autobiography, just your PS and a couple other things.

Wow, that sounds so... reasonable.

 

[Ismet]

Wow, that sounds so... reasonable.

Most of the stuff we had to submit to them was going to go on AMCAS anyway, and it's due at the beginning of May, so it kind of forces you to get all your ducks in a row and you're prepared to apply early. I think the only extra thing is a couple short essay responses to a couple questions, but I believe they were pretty similar to some standard secondary questions.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Wow, that sounds so... reasonable.

Wash U doesn't make you write an autobiography or do an interview either. You just have to answer a bunch of questions that are very similar to common secondary questions and have a working draft of your personal statement ready. Then you meet with your assigned PreHealth advisor (late spring semester) to go over everything and determine whether you're ready to apply in June.

 

[mehc012]

Wow, that sounds so... reasonable.

I like the complex stuff...makes me feel like they'll actually do the letter justice!

 

[moop]

Not the advisor letter. Most probably your overall mediocre app. And lack of legitimate interest shown in DO. @Goro has said this is important.

 

[JPA178]

You're at best an average applicant, so don't expect much this early in the cycle. Schools are getting all of the superstars out of the way.

Is that true? I am really hoping that more interviews will go out. Out of 27 MD schools, I'm sitting on 2 IIs (both attended), 2 holds, and 1 rejection. I was complete ranging from late July thru late August. LizzyM ~68, non-trad with good ECs and unique story.

I know this cycle has been especially competitive. I would really like the chance at a few more schools, just so I can feel more comfortable. I don't want to have to re-apply.

 

[BMC11]

- MCAT: 30 - sGPA: 3.5 - Okayish ECs

Sent 28 secondaries from Mid-Late July to August - 21 MD schools, 8 DO schools.

So far 2 MD rejections.

Besides that no interviews or rejections so far....(good or bad thing?)

I don't think it's the committee's fault, to be honest. A couple of people have already noted that you have average stats which is part of the problem. Also, you call your own extracurricics "okayish" which is also contributing to the issue. In a process with thousands of applicants, an average app can be completely overlooked.

Did you do any volunteering? Was it medically oriented? It may seem annoying, but a lot of schools see its absence as a red flag. Your advisor didn't frame it correctly, but she is right.

 

[zzxxzz]

Is that true? I am really hoping that more interviews will go out. Out of 27 MD schools, I'm sitting on 2 IIs (both attended), 2 holds, and 1 rejection. I was complete ranging from late July thru late August. LizzyM ~68, non-trad with good ECs and unique story.

I know this cycle has been especially competitive. I would really like the chance at a few more schools, just so I can feel more comfortable. I don't want to have to re-apply.

1. Don't hijack threads.

2. Read what I said: "this early in the cycle." More interviews will go out once schools have the people the want and have to start interviewing people they want a little less.

3. Barring a 32+ MCAT, having a LizzyM of 68 will probably put you in that waitlist category, especially if you got post-II holds. You'll probably be waiting awhile for some good news.

 

[DokterMom]

Your committee's "dumb" system actually sounds pretty good to me too... There's nothing they're asking for that won't be useful in the application process, and any weaknesses they spot early on can then be 'spun' or mitigated. And even the "idiotic" advice to minor in bio and/or get some bio-related LORs isn't completely off base. Unnecessary, probably, but not altogether a bad idea to demonstrate an interest in the biological sciences.

"Volunteering is necessary" -- Yeah, it really is. And for an applicant with fair-to-average numbers, strong volunteering and ECs can easily be what makes the difference in your application cycle. And not shadowing a DO does come off as lazy and disinterested. Even if DO is your safety net, it's only 'safe' if it works. They have more than enough qualified applicants to fill the class with people who are passionate enough about medicine to at least put on a good show.

Now arguing with the interviewer? Now that was the dumb part. How hard would it have been to say "I'll consider that - Thank you for your advice." ?

 

[JPA178]

1. Don't hijack threads.

2. Read what I said: "this early in the cycle." More interviews will go out once schools have the people the want and have to start interviewing people they want a little less.

3. Barring a 32+ MCAT, having a LizzyM of 68 will probably put you in that waitlist category, especially if you got post-II holds. You'll probably be waiting awhile for some good news.

I wasn't trying to hijack the thread and I did read what you said. I am sincerely hoping more IIs will go out - yes, for my own sake of course, but also for the sake of OP and everybody else who hasn't been having the cycle they were hoping for. I only added my stats for additional background info (and they were pre-II holds at other schools, btw, haven't heard back from interviews). Anyway I'm sorry for perpetuating the neurotic SDN stereotype. We all have similar goals here.

I can sympathize with OP's concerns especially since this cycle has been extremely competitive. I will say that as of right now, silence > rejection. At least that's the attitude I'm trying to have.

 

[DermViser]

"Volunteering is necessary in deciding to become a doctor." (lawl) ....Let's say I couldn't help but refute and disagree and we debated for a bit; consequently a bad interview.

Are you actually disagreeing with this?

 

[DermViser]

Are you from UPitt?

It's Pitt.

 

[DermViser]

Wash U doesn't make you write an autobiography or do an interview either. You just have to answer a bunch of questions that are very similar to common secondary questions and have a working draft of your personal statement ready. Then you meet with your assigned PreHealth advisor (late spring semester) to go over everything and determine whether you're ready to apply in June.

Probably bc WashU is able to so effectively weed out people in terms of grades.

 

[zzxxzz]

I wasn't trying to hijack the thread and I did read what you said. I am sincerely hoping more IIs will go out - yes, for my own sake of course, but also for the sake of OP and everybody else who hasn't been having the cycle they were hoping for. I only added my stats for additional background info (and they were pre-II holds at other schools, btw, haven't heard back from interviews). Anyway I'm sorry for perpetuating the neurotic SDN stereotype. We all have similar goals here.

Yea, everyone wants to be able to excitedly tell everyone where they're going next year at Thanksgiving or in their Christmas letter, but that isn't the reality for many people. Just be patient! An acceptance is an acceptance, whether it come this November or next April

Are you actually disagreeing with this?

I think it's safe to say a committee wouldn't write someone a negative letter, just perhaps a neutral one. But yea, I'd be much more worried about how OP will do in interviews.

There are always some people like this, who don't shadow/volunteer, who argue with interviewers, who act arrogant, etc. I know because they post on SDN asking why they got rejected everywhere...

 

[DermViser]

I think it's safe to say a committee wouldn't write someone a negative letter, just perhaps a neutral one. But yea, I'd be much more worried about how OP will do in interviews.

There are always some people like this, who don't shadow/volunteer, who argue with interviewers, who act arrogant, etc. I know because they post on SDN asking why they got rejected everywhere...

I'm just surprised anyone would get an interview without volunteering experiences. There's a reason that medical schools don't take people who don't have them. You have to experience medicine in its purest form in order to see whether you are in fact ok with doing this as a profession for the rest of your life till your retire or die. It's not something you can just jump off mid-swing esp. when there are alternative routes or different professions.

 

[mehc012]

Yea, everyone wants to be able to excitedly tell everyone where they're going next year at Thanksgiving or in their Christmas letter, but that isn't the reality for many people. Just be patient! An acceptance is an acceptance, whether it come this November or next April




I think it's safe to say a committee wouldn't write someone a negative letter, just perhaps a neutral one. But yea, I'd be much more worried about how OP will do in interviews.

There are always some people like this, who don't shadow/volunteer, who argue with interviewers, who act arrogant, etc. I know because they post on SDN asking why they got rejected everywhere...

That being said, if the committee is well known, the difference between a good letter and a neutral one can be quite telling. If most students from a school are reported to be "excellent" and OP is only touted as "good", that means something.

 

[Goro]

I've seen negative committee letters. They can be overt and state weaknesses ("Joe has a below avg MCAT score for a student in our program, and Dr X states that Joe is withdrawn and quiet in group exercises"), or they can damn with faint praise by giving a weak recommendation (like a 3/5 score) or only "recommend, when the best case is "recommend without reservations" or "highly recommend"

And OP, the reason you interview with your pre-med committee is to give you a taste of what medical school interviews are like.

I think it's safe to say a committee wouldn't write someone a negative letter, just perhaps a neutral one. But yea, I'd be much more worried about how OP will do in interviews.

There are always some people like this, who don't shadow/volunteer, who argue with interviewers, who act arrogant, etc. I know because they post on SDN asking why they got rejected everywhere...

 

[Moose A Moose]

You gotta play the game, OP.

Suck it up and do what you have to do.

 

[DermViser]

I've seen negative committee letters. They can be overt and state weaknesses ("Joe has a below avg MCAT score for a student in our program, and Dr X states that Joe is withdrawn and quiet in group exercises"), or they can damn with faint praise by giving a weak recommendation (like a 3/5 score) or only "recommend, when the best case is "recommend without reservations" or "highly recommend"

And OP, the reason you interview with your pre-med committee is to give you a taste of what medical school interviews are like.

I personally think it's stupid that schools have premed committees. The process is already circuitous and inefficient enough as it is and it doesn't just end at getting into medical school either.

 

[Goro]

From what I've seen, there are some really, really bad pre-med advisors out there. At least a committee can dilute out some of their effects. What did you have to deal with when you were in UG?

I personally think it's stupid that schools have premed committees. The process is already circuitous and inefficient enough as it is and it doesn't just end at getting into medical school either.

 

[mehc012]

I personally think it's stupid that schools have premed committees. The process is already circuitous and inefficient enough as it is and it doesn't just end at getting into medical school either.

Hey, committee letters waive a lot of the annoyingly inconsistent LOR requirements...worth it 100% in my book just for that! Plus, they give you a way to kick your LOR writers into gear early so you can apply ASAP.

 

[DermViser]

From what I've seen, there are some really, really bad pre-med advisors out there. At least a committee can dilute out some of their effects. What did you have to deal with when you were in UG?

Well I guess I really didn't pay that much attention to premed advisors bc there are like REAMS of books available out there on how to apply to medical school. Don't get me wrong - SDN is an absolute fantastic resource with regards to what extracurriculars to participate in with regards to getting into medical school and acing the MCAT. But there have always been good books out there in terms of putting together a good application for medical school.

I think the one area that is lacking is whether a person SHOULD go to medical school, now that the physician pathway no longer monopolizes the ability to treat patients, and now with Obamacare and reams of patients entering the system, that era is forever dead where every patients has their own physician anyways.

 

[zzxxzz]

I've seen negative committee letters. They can be overt and state weaknesses ("Joe has a below avg MCAT score for a student in our program, and Dr X states that Joe is withdrawn and quiet in group exercises"), or they can damn with faint praise by giving a weak recommendation (like a 3/5 score) or only "recommend, when the best case is "recommend without reservations" or "highly recommend"

And OP, the reason you interview with your pre-med committee is to give you a taste of what medical school interviews are like.

Interesting, I guess I had assumed it worked like normal LORs where the writers would simply politely decline to write.

Then again, I guess you'd be screwed if you applied from a committee-letter school w/o a committee letter...

 

[moop]

It's Pitt.

As in "armpit."
*giggles*

Sorry I'll go and try to grow up now..

 

[DermViser]

As in "armpit."
*giggles*

Sorry I'll go and try to grow up now..

Yeah, I don't agree with it, but it's what @Ismet said. lol.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Probably bc WashU is able to so effectively weed out people in terms of grades.

You'd be surprised at how many students with GPA<3.5 (our suggested cutoff for being "competitive") still want to apply after only 3 years of undergrad.

 

[DermViser]

You'd be surprised at how many students with GPA<3.5 (our suggested cutoff for being "competitive") still want to apply after only 3 years of undergrad.

Hope always springs eternal at Wash U undergrad. The level of cognitive dissonance and entitlement there is quite amazing.

 

[gettheleadout]

Then again, I guess you'd be screwed if you applied from a committee-letter school w/o a committee letter...

Not necessarily.



Sent from my neural implant using SDN Mobile

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Hope always springs eternal at Wash U undergrad. The level of cognitive dissonance and entitlement there is quite amazing.

Not everyone is entitled, but there are always people who overestimate their competitiveness. Lots of students participate in 6+ ECs on or off campus, thinking this can completely mitigate a low GPA and/or MCAT.

 

[DermViser]

Not everyone is entitled, but there are always people who overestimate their competitiveness. Lots of students participate in 6+ ECs on or off campus, thinking this can completely mitigate a low GPA and/or MCAT.

Yes, not everyone. But u don't get an automatic ticket to Wash U's med school.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Yes, not everyone. But u don't get an automatic ticket to Wash U's med school.

Well obviously. But most of us just want to get accepted by A medical school, not necessarily Wash U.

 

[DermViser]

Well obviously. But most of us just want to get accepted by A medical school, not necessarily Wash U.

If that's the case, then going to Wash U is complete overkill. Give me a break. No one goes to Wash U undergrad just to get into A medical school.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

If that's the case, then going to Wash U is complete overkill. Give me a break. No one goes to Wash U undergrad just to get into A medical school.

People go to Wash U for other reasons. Undergrad isn't solely for the purpose of prepping for med school.

 

[Zelda840]

Hey, committee letters waive a lot of the annoyingly inconsistent LOR requirements...worth it 100% in my book just for that! Plus, they give you a way to kick your LOR writers into gear early so you can apply ASAP.

Actually, one of the main complaints I've heard from people using committees is that it takes them forever to send in your letter and puts you behind. I personally had all my stuff ready and into my committee in May, but the letter didn't come out until August 1st. Using the committee actually took away the advantage of applying on day 1, unfortunately.

 

[Goro]

And you'd be surprised at how many people apply to medical school with single digit MCAT scores. NOT in a single category, but the total!

Denial is more than a river in Africa.

I estimate that of all the apps any single school receives, 50% could be immediately thrown out.


QUOTE="Ace Khalifa, post: 15799869, member: 622521"]You'd be surprised at how many students with GPA<3.5 (our suggested cutoff for being "competitive") still want to apply after only 3 years of undergrad.[/QUOTE]

 

[mehc012]

Actually, one of the main complaints I've heard from people using committees is that it takes them forever to send in your letter and puts you behind. I personally had all my stuff ready and into my committee in May, but the letter didn't come out until August 1st. Using the committee actually took away the advantage of applying on day 1, unfortunately.

mine has everything due in February, interview in Mar, start writing in May. You can submit without the LOR, so even if they take 2mo to write it, you're complete by the end of June when the apps go to the schools.

I have heard the same horror stories as you...not sure if it's departmental differences, school size, etc.

 

[fmpak93]

I don't think it's the committee's fault, to be honest. A couple of people have already noted that you have average stats which is part of the problem. Also, you call your own extracurricics "okayish" which is also contributing to the issue. In a process with thousands of applicants, an average app can be completely overlooked.

Did you do any volunteering? Was it medically oriented? It may seem annoying, but a lot of schools see its absence as a red flag. Your advisor didn't frame it correctly, but she is right.

I did volunteer at a emergency rescue squad after taking a cprclass and first aid class, but wasnt allowed to really handle patients, just stocking the ambulance, etc. And i know someone who got in with zero volunteering, he's MD/PhD

 

[fmpak93]

I'm just surprised anyone would get an interview without volunteering experiences. There's a reason that medical schools don't take people who don't have them. You have to experience medicine in its purest form in order to see whether you are in fact ok with doing this as a profession for the rest of your life till your retire or die. It's not something you can just jump off mid-swing esp. when there are alternative routes or different professions.

I did volunteer at a emergency rescue squad alongside EMTs, but it wasnt as so much clinical because I could nto really handle with patients. It was more staying on duty, restocking the ambulance with medical equipment and learning how to use it in an emergency situation. I'll probably go back to volunteer at the rehab center i did a couple of years ago in highschool to squeeze in some hours and update the schools. and my own cousin got several interviews with zero volunteering, got into md/phd, its not uncommon, just silly and risky. i guess im being silly and risky (or stupid).

 

[fmpak93]

And you'd be surprised at how many people apply to medical school with single digit MCAT scores. NOT in a single category, but the total!

Denial is more than a river in Africa.

I estimate that of all the apps any single school receives, 50% could be immediately thrown out.


QUOTE="Ace Khalifa, post: 15799869, member: 622521"]You'd be surprised at how many students with GPA<3.5 (our suggested cutoff for being "competitive") still want to apply after only 3 years of undergrad.

[/QUOTE]

Oh god single digits? why throw away money like that...I guess they were inspired by some random miracle of a storyin the past.