Prev and Occupational medicine in the Navy

[flowing]

Is there any Prev or Occ medicine doc here? I am just to check how competitive the residency are and how long it takes to complete.

I am currently a med student--HPSP and comparing primary care FM/IM vs prev/occ med for my future career. Do prev/occ med physicians get bonuses like other physicians? How about job opportunity, lifestyle, and income in the outside compared with FM/IM? I just googled to check job openings in occ and pre med, but not that many.

Thank you

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[freeme]

Is there any Prev or Occ medicine doc here? I am just to check how competitive the residency are and how long it takes to complete.

I am currently a med student--HPSP and comparing primary care FM/IM vs prev/occ med for my future career. Do prev/occ med physicians get bonuses like other physicians? How about job opportunity, lifestyle, and income in the outside compared with FM/IM? I just googled to check job openings in occ and pre med, but not that many.

Thank you

If you don't mind inpt, IM is better. You have the option to specialize later. Prev or Occ med--limited job options if you leave the mil, I don't think you will get a bonus like other med specialties either.

 

[jabreal00]

Is there any Prev or Occ medicine doc here? I am just to check how competitive the residency are and how long it takes to complete.

I am currently a med student--HPSP and comparing primary care FM/IM vs prev/occ med for my future career. Do prev/occ med physicians get bonuses like other physicians? How about job opportunity, lifestyle, and income in the outside compared with FM/IM? I just googled to check job openings in occ and pre med, but not that many.

Thank you

I am pretty sure that prev/occ get a similar bonus as other primary care physicians ($20K/yr) in addition to the $15K/yr all physicians get. I agree that there's not much marketability outside of the military/DoD for prev/occ med physicians. However it's a relatively cush gig if you stay in the military as prev/occ med (mostly travel medicine clinic and HBV, HIV screening and coordination on most bases). Alternatively, you can do FM/IM and then do the fellowship program in occ/prev med.

 

[Gastrapathy]

There are definitely Occ Med jobs outside DoD. A friend of mine just finished her obligation and she had offers all over the place. A quick look at the KP physician jobs website showed that they have 12 Occ Med jobs listed in California alone. Its a smaller pool competing for those jobs. I think choosing anything other than straight primary care is a good idea. Burnout is real.

The advantage of IM is that you can escape into a subspecialty when you realize your mistake.

 

[trixmd]

I'm prev med/occ med in the Navy. We get bonuses just like other specialties and they're comparable to primary care bonuses. Lifestyle is definitely better than primary care. Many of us initially trained in prev med, but we have a number of FM or IM docs who didn't like the various RVU burdens, inpatient care, or hospital politics.. Most Navy prev med jobs are in prev med units, at Marine HQs (Lejeune, Pendleton, Okinawa), or on joint staffs (Naples, Colorado Springs, Honolulu). Out of 50-ish PMOs, there are only 7 jobs at hospitals. The rest of us work in operational, research, or policy settings. Many of us also have specialized in tropical medicine (look up ASTHM and the certificate of knowledge in tropical medicine), as we do a lot of global medicine and infectious disease work. Occ med jobs are mostly at clinics, but there are a handful of staff billets. (NB: I've only done prev med jobs, so this is my perception. I also know very little about the AF and Army.)

The residencies aren't cut throat to get in. I think last year there were 8 or 10 applicants for 2 spots in Navy prev med. Don't know the occ med stats off the top of my head. (Once you're boarded in one of them, you can challenge the other board exam, which is how I'm double boarded). Both residencies take 2 years to complete, which requires an MPH. There are military programs at USU and Madigan (I'm probably missing some important information about the AF), and civilian training is frequently offered depending on the needs of the service. (I was sponsored to train at a civilian institution, so got my regular pay and benefits, the Navy paid my MPH tuition, and the time counted for retirement.) There are a couple fellowship opportunities, at least in the Navy - I was an EIS officer with the CDC, the Baylor MBA program, clinical informatics, and you can do hypobaric or aerospace if you have the right background. None of these are prev med or occ med specific.

I think prev med is a more interesting job, particularly in the military, but occ med is more lucrative outside of the military, which is why I'm double boarded. Last week I went to ACPM, and spoke to occ med recruiters as I can retire in 3 years. The jobs that fit the parameters I want (location (West Coast/California, Washington, and Hawaii) and setting (not industrial)) started at $225k, no nights and no weekends.

Hope that helps. PM if you have more questions.

 

[pqrs-mr]

I'm prev med/occ med in the Navy. We get bonuses just like other specialties and they're comparable to primary care bonuses. Lifestyle is definitely better than primary care. Many of us initially trained in prev med, but we have a number of FM or IM docs who didn't like the various RVU burdens, inpatient care, or hospital politics.. Most Navy prev med jobs are in prev med units, at Marine HQs (Lejeune, Pendleton, Okinawa), or on joint staffs (Naples, Colorado Springs, Honolulu). Out of 50-ish PMOs, there are only 7 jobs at hospitals. The rest of us work in operational, research, or policy settings. Many of us also have specialized in tropical medicine (look up ASTHM and the certificate of knowledge in tropical medicine), as we do a lot of global medicine and infectious disease work. Occ med jobs are mostly at clinics, but there are a handful of staff billets. (NB: I've only done prev med jobs, so this is my perception. I also know very little about the AF and Army.)

The residencies aren't cut throat to get in. I think last year there were 8 or 10 applicants for 2 spots in Navy prev med. Don't know the occ med stats off the top of my head. (Once you're boarded in one of them, you can challenge the other board exam, which is how I'm double boarded). Both residencies take 2 years to complete, which requires an MPH. There are military programs at USU and Madigan (I'm probably missing some important information about the AF), and civilian training is frequently offered depending on the needs of the service. (I was sponsored to train at a civilian institution, so got my regular pay and benefits, the Navy paid my MPH tuition, and the time counted for retirement.) There are a couple fellowship opportunities, at least in the Navy - I was an EIS officer with the CDC, the Baylor MBA program, clinical informatics, and you can do hypobaric or aerospace if you have the right background. None of these are prev med or occ med specific.

I think prev med is a more interesting job, particularly in the military, but occ med is more lucrative outside of the military, which is why I'm double boarded. Last week I went to ACPM, and spoke to occ med recruiters as I can retire in 3 years. The jobs that fit the parameters I want (location (West Coast/California, Washington, and Hawaii) and setting (not industrial)) started at $225k, no nights and no weekends.

Hope that helps. PM if you have more questions.

Occ med may be more lucrative, but most of your job incudes doing worker's compensation claim and determining state of disability. To me, it is a stressful job. You can do a good detective work, but both the employer and the patient may not be happy in your decision. On the other hand, most of the occ med jobs are also requires primary care work and are open to FM/IM/EM physicians. In the civilian, most prev/occ med specialists are board-certified in a clinical speciality in FM/IM/EM. Most of these people also do not even need board certification from ABPM. Check the recent report from ABPM. There are only few people take the board/yr. So, if you are trained only in occ &/or prev med, you still get a job, but not may not be easy.

 

[trixmd]

I suppose compared to the primary care specialties, "only a few people" take the occ med board each year (about 100), but there are also less than 25 residencies in the country. (source: ABPM) Also, you may find doing worker's comp or disability evals distasteful, but I have the same feelings about inpatient care, managing diabetics or axis 2 diagnoses.

I think the current situation is analogous to that of Emergency Medicine - for a while, anyone could practice emergency medicine (IM, FM, even general practioners w/out residency training could work in EM and/or be boarded in EM) because there were so few people boarded in EM. But as more residency graduates hit the market, employers could get more selective about who they hired. Currently about 200 physicians leave occ med a year and only 70ish people a year graduate (source: lecture, ACPM 2016). The remainder of the folks who make up the 100 test takers a year are like me - already boarded in an ABPM specialty (aero or prev med) and have the appropriate background (being a flight doc/UMO/GMO for 6 years doing CDLs, surveillance etc) who challenge the specialty part of the exam. So its going to take a while for residency trained/board certified folks to meet the occ med demand signal and in the meanwhile companies can take primary care folks with the appropriate back ground.

I've got 3ish or so years left in mil med, so I'm not really looking for a full time job yet. I have been looking for part time/moonlighting gigs, and got an offer the first month I was looking with an hourly wage of about $125 - its not what a moonlighting orthopod would make, but its enough to give up an evening/Saturday or two a month. One of my Navy colleagues who is boarded in occ med only recently retired from the military and found a job in the geographic area he desired that started at $300k. I think your assertion that finding a job when you're only trained in prev med/occ "may not be easy" is more applicable to those only trained in prev med as most of those jobs in the civilian sector are in health departments.

 

[pqrs-mr]

I suppose compared to the primary care specialties, "only a few people" take the occ med board each year (about 100), but there are also less than 25 residencies in the country. (source: ABPM) Also, you may find doing worker's comp or disability evals distasteful, but I have the same feelings about inpatient care, managing diabetics or axis 2 diagnoses.

I think the current situation is analogous to that of Emergency Medicine - for a while, anyone could practice emergency medicine (IM, FM, even general practioners w/out residency training could work in EM and/or be boarded in EM) because there were so few people boarded in EM. But as more residency graduates hit the market, employers could get more selective about who they hired. Currently about 200 physicians leave occ med a year and only 70ish people a year graduate (source: lecture, ACPM 2016). The remainder of the folks who make up the 100 test takers a year are like me - already boarded in an ABPM specialty (aero or prev med) and have the appropriate background (being a flight doc/UMO/GMO for 6 years doing CDLs, surveillance etc) who challenge the specialty part of the exam. So its going to take a while for residency trained/board certified folks to meet the occ med demand signal and in the meanwhile companies can take primary care folks with the appropriate back ground.

I've got 3ish or so years left in mil med, so I'm not really looking for a full time job yet. I have been looking for part time/moonlighting gigs, and got an offer the first month I was looking with an hourly wage of about $125 - its not what a moonlighting orthopod would make, but its enough to give up an evening/Saturday or two a month. One of my Navy colleagues who is boarded in occ med only recently retired from the military and found a job in the geographic area he desired that started at $300k. I think your assertion that finding a job when you're only trained in prev med/occ "may not be easy" is more applicable to those only trained in prev med as most of those jobs in the civilian sector are in health departments.

Occ med is only a portion of it for most jobs. They need you to do primary care jobs at the clinic or urgent care at the same time. For that, those who also board certified in clinical specialities such as FM/IM/ER are more suited for that kind of job. There are pure occ med jobs are out there, but may not be as many. $300K for occ med? Is that a medical director position or clinical job?

 

[mer-re]

I'm prev med/occ med in the Navy. We get bonuses just like other specialties and they're comparable to primary care bonuses. Lifestyle is definitely better than primary care. Many of us initially trained in prev med, but we have a number of FM or IM docs who didn't like the various RVU burdens, inpatient care, or hospital politics.. Most Navy prev med jobs are in prev med units, at Marine HQs (Lejeune, Pendleton, Okinawa), or on joint staffs (Naples, Colorado Springs, Honolulu). Out of 50-ish PMOs, there are only 7 jobs at hospitals. The rest of us work in operational, research, or policy settings. Many of us also have specialized in tropical medicine (look up ASTHM and the certificate of knowledge in tropical medicine), as we do a lot of global medicine and infectious disease work. Occ med jobs are mostly at clinics, but there are a handful of staff billets. (NB: I've only done prev med jobs, so this is my perception. I also know very little about the AF and Army.)

The residencies aren't cut throat to get in. I think last year there were 8 or 10 applicants for 2 spots in Navy prev med. Don't know the occ med stats off the top of my head. (Once you're boarded in one of them, you can challenge the other board exam, which is how I'm double boarded). Both residencies take 2 years to complete, which requires an MPH. There are military programs at USU and Madigan (I'm probably missing some important information about the AF), and civilian training is frequently offered depending on the needs of the service. (I was sponsored to train at a civilian institution, so got my regular pay and benefits, the Navy paid my MPH tuition, and the time counted for retirement.) There are a couple fellowship opportunities, at least in the Navy - I was an EIS officer with the CDC, the Baylor MBA program, clinical informatics, and you can do hypobaric or aerospace if you have the right background. None of these are prev med or occ med specific.

I think prev med is a more interesting job, particularly in the military, but occ med is more lucrative outside of the military, which is why I'm double boarded. Last week I went to ACPM, and spoke to occ med recruiters as I can retire in 3 years. The jobs that fit the parameters I want (location (West Coast/California, Washington, and Hawaii) and setting (not industrial)) started at $225k, no nights and no weekends.

Hope that helps. PM if you have more questions.[boQUOTE]
Did you work 2 yrs full time in occ med to challenge the board? Is there any other pathway to challenge the occ med board? Thanks

 

[trixmd]

I was a flight doc for a couple tours which qualified as full time occupational medicine experience, so as an existing ABPM diplomate, was able to challenge the board .

The only other pathways of which I'm aware are to complete 2 years of any GME program, have the requisite course work, and be practicing occ med OR be practicing occ med and do the UPenn external training program. I've only heard of these program- I don't actually know anyone who's done them.