Program approval for GI Bill

[Militarydoc1]

I will be ETSing this June and begin Cardiology fellowship this July in California. I will be applying for the post 911 GI Bill to take advantage of its monthly housing allowance and book stipend. Surprisingly, the medical center is not listed in WEAMS list of VA approved programs. I've tried to contact the state approving agency via telephone/email, but still awaiting a response. The GME office also is not familiar w/ the GI Bill.

Question: Is anyone familiar w/ the approval process? How long does the process take?

Of note, residency/fellowship is considered an institution of higher learning, not an apprenticeship/OJT. Thus, you are awarded the full amount monthly for 36 months.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[colbgw02]

Sorry that I can't help, but I would love to know the answer because I'll be looking to do the same thing soon.

 

[deleted444089]

Great point on the 'not an apprenticeship/OTJ' issue: I've heard of numerous GMOs electing to use the MGIB when they were told their MHA would decrease over time, which it is NOT supposed to do. They lost out on a significant amount of money by receiving the fixed $1500-1800 the MGIB affords, depending on whether they used the kicker or not.

It sounds like you have already tried talking to the state approving agencies but that is the best route I've heard you should take ; your residency program director should reach out to the relevant state director from the list at this link and go from there:

http://www.nasaa-vetseducation.com/contacts/default.aspx

I've heard approval generally takes anywhere between 1-3 months.

Best of luck!

 

[Militarydoc1]

Update: California's state approving agency did get back to me. According to CSAAVE, The GME office or residency/fellowship program has to fill out and submit a bunch of documents after which it can take up to 60-90 days for processing. After the application is deemed complete, final approval is issued only after the institution passes an inspection by an Education Specialist. Once approval is issued and the veteran is enrolled, a VA representative will make follow up visits to conduct Compliance Surveys to ensure VA policies are followed and violations/deficiencies are corrected. With all this red tape, I can see why programs may be discouraged to apply. Also, only AFTER program approval is obtained, you can submit the application to receive your GI bill benefits; it will be denied otherwise.

With that said, the money is worth the extra hassle, but we must continuously engage our program administrators to ensure applications are submitted in a timely fashion. I'm afraid I have started late, but hope others will learn from my mistake.

For those confused between Montgomery GI Bill + kicker vs. Post 911 GI Bill:
You can estimate your MHA by calculating the BHA for E5 w/ dependents. Assuming a 3 year residency or fellowship, if this amount (MHA) exceeds the $1500-1700 you'll likely receive through the Montgomery GI Bill, the post 911 GI Bill is the way to go. For Cali, I stand to make almost $2200/month, so post 911 GI Bill for me. Unless, you're in a 4 yr program; then you can take advantage of 3 yrs of Montgomery GI Bill, then Post 911 GI Bill for the 4th year.

Hope this helps. Best advice is to start early!

 

[Militarydoc1]

Update: the VA approving agency for California has denied approval on the basis the GI Bill was meant for internships and residencies, not "fellowships". Anyone else encounter a similar issue? I was under the impression fellowships were covered as well. I think this is BS

 

[Gastrapathy]

That's ridiculous. You are a resident according to the ACGME. Appeal it.

 

[Homunculus]

agreed. i have a close friend doing a civilian NICU fellowship on his GI bill. it's BS. fellowships are still GME. as a fellow i was i think technically considered a PGY4-PGY6 or something.

good luck and keep at it.

--your friendly neighborhood just give you what you earned caveman

 

[MaximusD]

Update: California's state approving agency did get back to me. According to CSAAVE, The GME office or residency/fellowship program has to fill out and submit a bunch of documents after which it can take up to 60-90 days for processing. After the application is deemed complete, final approval is issued only after the institution passes an inspection by an Education Specialist. Once approval is issued and the veteran is enrolled, a VA representative will make follow up visits to conduct Compliance Surveys to ensure VA policies are followed and violations/deficiencies are corrected. With all this red tape, I can see why programs may be discouraged to apply. Also, only AFTER program approval is obtained, you can submit the application to receive your GI bill benefits; it will be denied otherwise.

With that said, the money is worth the extra hassle, but we must continuously engage our program administrators to ensure applications are submitted in a timely fashion. I'm afraid I have started late, but hope others will learn from my mistake.

For those confused between Montgomery GI Bill + kicker vs. Post 911 GI Bill:
You can estimate your MHA by calculating the BHA for E5 w/ dependents. Assuming a 3 year residency or fellowship, if this amount (MHA) exceeds the $1500-1700 you'll likely receive through the Montgomery GI Bill, the post 911 GI Bill is the way to go. For Cali, I stand to make almost $2200/month, so post 911 GI Bill for me. Unless, you're in a 4 yr program; then you can take advantage of 3 yrs of Montgomery GI Bill, then Post 911 GI Bill for the 4th year.

Hope this helps. Best advice is to start early!

Same, I'll be going to Boston where the post911 gi bill benefit will be 2800/mo and the mgib would only be approx 1700 (with buy-up). Even if I were to do a fellowship in which case using the mgib first would allow for an additional fourth year of eligibility under the post-911, I would still come out behind.

 

[idq1i]

For someone that went through a fellowship utilizing post 9/11 GIB:

-How was the program certified by the VA - under "institution of higher learning" umbrella or as OJT (on the job training)?

-Did you have to certify your attendance monthly? Once? Something else?

Any suggestions on making your institution move on the paperwork? I've been fighting mine (Ivy-associated) for nearly 4 months and get barely get the time of day from them. The program was already approved - i just need them to sign off on my enrollment

 

[IlDestriero]

1. Don't know, it was already in place at the medical center.
2. I had to call every month. It was automated and took about 2 minutes. It may have changed to online while I was in the program.
3. Schedule an appointment with the head of GME. Explain calmly and clearly that you are a Veteran entitled to these government benefits enacted specifically to to help veterans like yourself get an education or additional career training after honorably separating and they're worth $X a month and you want to know why they are dragging their feet on a simple paperwork item that doesn't affect them at all, but affects you and your family quite a bit. I bet they send an email while you're there and it is faxed over before end of day.
If they still don't move on it and you know a veteran faculty member in your department, enlist them to help. I wouldn't think twice about going to the mat about the GME office not helping you and other veterans get the valuable benefits that you're entitled to, and in a timely manner. It's not right.
--
Il Destriero

 

[idq1i]

1. Don't know, it was already in place at the medical center.
2. I had to call every month. It was automated and took about 2 minutes. It may have changed to online while I was in the program.
3. Schedule an appointment with the head of GME. Explain calmly and clearly that you are a Veteran entitled to these government benefits enacted specifically to to help veterans like yourself get an education or additional career training after honorably separating and they're worth $X a month and you want to know why they are dragging their feet on a simple paperwork item that doesn't affect them at all, but affects you and your family quite a bit. I bet they send an email while you're there and it is faxed over before end of day.
If they still don't move on it and you know a veteran faculty member in your department, enlist them to help. I wouldn't think twice about going to the mat about the GME office not helping you and other veterans get the valuable benefits that you're entitled to, and in a timely manner. It's not right.
--
Il Destriero

Thanks for the input. In my case, it's nearly 3.8k. I really didn't want to start a fight before even starting at the place, but I have been going back and forth with them (mainly forth because they ignore phone calls and emails) since 8/2015, and the fellowship is in <4 months. Looks like personal appearance is in order

 

[IlDestriero]

I think I misunderstood what you wrote and thought you already started. They may not be able to file your paperwork until you start. I think I had to wait 2 months to get paid, and then they back pay you. That's separate from getting the program certified by the VA though, which I don't know anything about.


--
Il Destriero

 

[IlDestriero]

You guys get a lot more loot than I did. Btw. That's awesome!


--
Il Destriero

 

[idq1i]

I think I misunderstood what you wrote and thought you already started. They may not be able to file your paperwork until you start. I think I had to wait 2 months to get paid, and then they back pay you. That's separate from getting the program certified by the VA though, which I don't know anything about.

--
Il Destriero

The person in charge of the certifying process left a few years ago. The one responsible for certification at the sister institution (shared admin office) never bothered to file paperwork to add herself to my institution's role. I have been going back and forth with her to file the paperwork to add herself to VA's list for 6 months now. She is already on the sister institution's VA-approved list. Until she is certified, she can't certify me. I know there will be a delay in getting paid - I am hoping to at least start the process. What spooked me is a conversation that I had with a local VA chief. He said that a fellowship is not a part of medical training, and he wasn't sure if i could get VA benefits during a fellowship (!!!???!) If I have to deal with this obstinate stupidity, I hope to have at least a few months in reserve before I start. Rents around me are running in the low 3s for a decent place.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Don't call it a fellowship. The ACGME doesn't. It is a residency.

 

[Aegis]

Agree with above. Fellowship is GME. I knew someone that did a heme/onc fellowship and sold it as a "degree in oncology" it's just some clerk at the VA your talking to most of the time. Keep in mind as well that they will theoretically retro-pay up to a year back if your approved.

 

[idq1i]

Agree with above. Fellowship is GME. I knew someone that did a heme/onc fellowship and sold it as a "degree in oncology" it's just some clerk at the VA your talking to most of the time. Keep in mind as well that they will theoretically retro-pay up to a year back if your approved.

Local VA seems confused that there is no tuition for my "degree" in VIR, but it seems like I have made some positive progress. Supposedly, they have processed the application to enroll in my "degree" program, but I am waiting to have the letter in hand.