Pros and Cons of your DO School

[stud247]

I’m a graduating M4 from NSU. I will say flat out I had a great education there. I was well prepared and ready for my clinical rotations.There were great classmates of mine that have matched into places like Yale, Emory, and the Cleveland Clinic. I matched into EM and am quite ecstatic about it. All medical schools are you get what you put in but I also think I had a good knowledge base and I saw some great pathology.

Curriculum: Solid. Your first two years are going to be like drinking out of a fire hose but so is any medical school. They provide a good base to get ready for your 2nd year medical classes. There is integration of physical examination classes and simulated patient exams throughout your didactic years and these simulated exams made sure the COMLEX 2 PE was a breeze.

Gross Anatomy had 4-5 per cadaver and two teams worked on one body, one on Tuesday and one Thursday. I will let you know I had plenty of time to dissect and if I wanted to come back on my off time. I know a lot of incoming students want to know about that. I thought my 2nd year was actually tougher then my 1st but much more “fun”. This is where the rubber meets the road so to speak and its all system based. There are a lot of clinical correlations made though the classes that ends up helping you later. I did visiting rotations at bigger academic programs in my 4th year at places such as UNC, Cook County, USC, and University of Tennessee and I felt I had awesome training compared to my fellow peers.

Location: Two words…..SOUTH FLORIDA! This is Miami….this is the white sandy beaches…this is a busy area! The location has beautiful weather and plenty of time to study your histology by the pool in December. The area also has professional hockey, football, baseball, and basketball for you sports fans. There are so many places to eat and have a great time as well as short trips to Orlando or the Keys for a weekend get away when you need to just get away. Point to note though, it can get kinda expensive. Which leads to….

Cost: Honestly I don’t remember what it is now. I have instate tuition and pay around 25K or so. (I was paying 22K when I started) I think out of state pays around 33K or so. I will say a decent apartment can run you around 1100-1300. This is easily worked around sharing with a roommate but again that’s a pretty steep compared to other parts of the country. Gas is a little higher as well but this comes with being in a heavily populated area.

Faculty: The teaching faculty is pretty good. We have a great anatomy and histology professors. Our physiology professors are decent and I learned from them but they are more interested in research at times. In second year most of the classes are in systems. Almost every one of the lecturers was pretty good. Now of course every now and then there was a snoozer but hey….that’s life. There is a Dr. Hasty that is a professor in Internal Medicine that will do anything for the students. He teaches a lot but also takes the time to make sure the students are doing well. Again, didactic wise I had a great education.

Administration: I will be honest. I think our administration could use some work. You’ll see the Dean a bit through the first 2 years but honestly I haven’t heard much from him since I started my 3rd year. I figure the next time I will hear from them is graduation. I also thought at times the clinical education department was difficult to work with but in the end it all worked out for me. As I said they could use some work and some communication but it had nothing to do with my quality of my education.

OMM: We have some great faculty here including Dr. Wallace and some others for OPP. This class takes its time and makes sure you know slowly how to do things the right way. HVLA is not taught until 2nd year. I am not a OMM kinda guy but I liked the classes in lab ….even cranial…..because I could sleep.

Reputation: Most of the time when people ask where I go to school they go ummmm ok. I do though get through some of my rotations people who know the candidates that come out of NSU and are quite happy. We place candidates throughout the country in a lot of specialties. I think my class had a lot of great placements as well. For the most part I think we put some damn great physicians.

I will say that NSU now is one of the older DO schools. This means there are more alumni and people that are familiar with the program. There are a lot of new programs out there now and I was happy I was at a place that had previous students that are in all sorts of programs though out the country. This in my opinion is a big plus.


Clinical Rotations: There are multiple rotation sites for NSU students. There are a lot of students so they run a lotto for placements throughout Florida for your core 3rd year rotations. Most students get their first choice. The most popular rotations are Broward General, Memorial Hospital, Mt. Sinai, Florida Hospital in Orlando, and Suncoast in Tampa. I was at Broward General which is a large level 1 trauma center in downtown Ft. Lauderdale. I though my rotations were absolutely awesome. One of the reasons I came to NSU was the pathology. There is a great mix of poor, homeless, tropical medicine, and south Florida has a HUGE HIV population. I saw so many funky and weird diseases during my time there. There were residency programs also at the hospital so I had a cushion for learning. There was also a lot of one on one time there so I got a to do a lot of procedures in 3rd year like central lines, chest tubes, IV, abscess drainage, suturing, delivering babies, and being 1st assist on a lot of surgical cases. I know you get a lot of these at other hospitals but I think there I had a great learning opportunity here.

You do have to do rural/underserved rotations in your 4th year. Two they assign to you and one you can do on your own. I choose EM at Cook County in Chicago cause its amazingly underserved. Others choose to do international rotations in Africa or India. They pay a stipend and provide housing for those on your rurals.

Housing: Again, can get expensive. I would say get a place near school and walk to class if you can. If you want a nicer place with a 15-20 drive I suggest Plantation which has some great apartments and you get a little more for the same price.

Study areas: Great in my opinion. There is a HPD library which is decent but tends to get quite busy since there are so many programs at the school. There are a lot of private study rooms and if you don’t want to be at the HPD there is a MASSIVE library on campus that is really clean and modern. I had NO problems finding a place to study….just the motivation.

Social Scene: Its South Beach. Nuff said. There is always something to go do or see here. Sports, beach, drinking, cruises…..Miami has it all if you have the money.

Board Prep: They pay for Kaplan and you get all the books as well. There is a complete review course but I spent the time just reading the books they gave me as well as some I bought myself. I had like 6 weeks or so off for studying. I thought it was fine.

Happiness of Student Body: I added this here because I didn’t see it earlier. For the most part we are content. We are not the cheery happiest medical student body out there but I think we are great clinicians. Don’t get me wrong we have a lot of fun and there are a LOT of good times to be had in the Miami area. I think that as you progress there are a lot of stressors that add to the mix. Tough classes then boards….then setting up electives…then the match. All while still studying and working hard to be a great physician. Not specific to NSU but I think that student body is something that you need to look at while your out there.


OK its late and I'm tired, please let me know if you have any other questions.

South Beach?? I thought Nova was located in Ft Lauderdale?? South Beach is like 50miles south.

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[MossPoh]

South Beach?? I thought Nova was located in Ft Lauderdale?? South Beach is like 50miles south.

If you are going to take the time to go out then 50 miles to some of the top clubs around isn't that far, especially how you drive in south florida. Nobody really goes out for a quick party night. Most outsiders kind of consider Broward/Dade one massive city anyway. Heck, I consider it one massive city and I was born down there.

 

[stud247]

If you are going to take the time to go out then 50 miles to some of the top clubs around isn't that far, especially how you drive in south florida. Nobody really goes out for a quick party night. Most outsiders kind of consider Broward/Dade one massive city anyway. Heck, I consider it one massive city and I was born down there.

Well I am living in south beach this summer. I do not see a reason to visit anything north of 20th street or west of ft washington. I have a bicycle and I think it would be expensive to get a car. And even more expensive to use it to go clubbing. So what about that social life? I imagine if I were a Nova student I'd be living at the beach and I'd be commuting 10miles inland for school by bike. But how do the students socialize if they live in Davie,FL? Say, would Nova have any advantages over Lecom-Bradenton geographically/socially?

 

[p30doc]

South Beach?? I thought Nova was located in Ft Lauderdale?? South Beach is like 50miles south.

It was a 30-35 min drive when I did it.

 

[ceftazidime]

But how do the students socialize if they live in Davie,FL? Say, would Nova have any advantages over Lecom-Bradenton geographically/socially?

Davie, FL is essentially Ft Lauderdale. The downtown Ft Lauderdale/Las Olas area, which has a huge beach/bar scene, is only 15 minutes away, and Hard Rock Casino (another bar/club scene) is even closer. South Beach is a 30 minute drive with horrendous parking, so not many students go there regularly (until you're a 3rd/4th year doing rotations there).

So yes, I would say that the social scene at Nova is amazing. Plus the HPD building where you have classes for your first 2 years is also home to students from the dental, nursing, optometry, PA, PT, pharm and other programs, so there are plenty of opportunities to meet people outside your class. Don't know much about Bradenton, but it is close to Tampa so I'm sure the social scene there is good as well.

But keep in mind that if you're the type of person that's inclined to go out a lot, a place with a huge social scene could be your downfall in med school. Especially if you're hanging out with people who are not in med school, who don't understand how busy you are. During the first 2 years, most of your weekends will be spent studying, and your party nights will likely be Monday nights after your test, when most normal people don't go out. So in a way, living in Ft Lauderdale is kind of a tease during the first 2 years, but it feels good knowing that there's no shortage of things to do.

 

[Murphy Brown]

So I guess no one can write one for KCUMB?

 

[Teeno]

Can we get another for AZCOM and NSU? I realize the M2's there are studying for exams/boards....but...pleaaaase?! I have this ridiculous decision to make and so far i'm completely torn between the two schools. Anyone have any advice? please? pretty please?!?!?!

 

[DiverDoc]

So I guess no one can write one for KCUMB?

We cant. They are listening/watching you.

 

[nydo1980]

NYCOM

Curriculum: B - constantly getting changed...every year it is different, but it is ok, right now it is on a systems based format, when i started it was basic science then clinicals
Location: Long Island, 40 minutes out of NYC in a nicer part, but heavy traffic, no dorms, students live 10 minutes north in glen cove, not much to do. I hate long island, some people like it, most people out of state can't wait to get out. NYC being close is a plus, accessible easily by rr.
Cost: D, 47K, school sent an email saying that stafford loans won't cover the whole lot of it, have to take out private just to pay tuition, really ridiculous. Tuition was 29K in 2003. NYIT the mother school uses NYCOM as a cash cow and gives little back to it.
Financial Aid: C - No help, unless you are a minority
Faculty: C, faculty to student ratio is atrocious, 3rd year clerkship director is a dentist with a phd (Goldstein = worse nightmare), and the the person in charge of 4th year is a pyschologist. Lower level administration can be unhelpful and rude. Very few DO's on campus for the size of the school, with no clear heads of departments (no head of IM, no head for rads, no head for surgery etc...). Upper level faculty are stand offish, and unresponsive to student needs, with things very slow to change, ? puppets for NYIT. PhD professors are strong, clinical professors are mainly volunteer based and are under little supervision by the school for lecture content. The result is some pretty crappy lectures, and the occ really good one. Ironically the undergraduate fellows give the best talks.
Reputation: This is arbitrary, DO schools are not even ranked by the NIH. Locally there are some good community hospitals that favor NYCOM. Manhattan university hospitals (NYU, columbia, etc..) with the exception of anesthesia and PMR typically will not give NYCOMer's or DOs a fair hand shake, but ironically employ them after residency (university pays a lot less). Only hospital that NYCOM benefits from is North Shore, LIJ, and maimo hospitals that won't really take other DO's or FMG's, otw most of NYCOM hospitals are the pits.
Technology: B+, online streaming recently taken away. Campus is wireless. TV's everywhere...rather have more study space though
Study Space/Library: D, repeatedly addressed by students without change, in fact only change for the worse. A big wharehouse study hall, ugly, purple, poor lighting. Library hasn't been updated since the school was built, and has very limited resources. School continually chips away at study space for additional room without adding other places to study. For a total of 1200 students there are 4 private study rooms that accommodate 5 students each tops. Really pathetic, and the administrations response is even worse.
Library technology/Resources: see above
Rotations: B- , rotate through 20 hospitals, 30% are out of state. Very very hospital dependent. Very little supervision from the school, which really depends on the site to oversee its students. 50% of the hospitals don't care at all about the education (peninsula, brookhaven) and about 10% really do, the middle lot is a big mixed bag. In my opinion the more hospitals you rotate through, the worse off you are, the majority of MD schools have one university setting, a VA, and a community hospital. Allows for better supervision, a more standardized curriculum, and for students to network and find mentors. If you bounce from NJ, to brooklyn to upstate NY how can you possibly get research going or develop repoire with Docs who can help you in the future...
Social: A, people get along well, frequent gatherings, one of the only strong features of the school.
Hospitals: No primary affiliated hospitals. Rotate through hospitals with what seems like hundreds of other students. NYCOM students fill in empty spots (Maimo = Downstate + Carribean + NYCOM, North Shore = NYU + Albert Einstein + NYCOM, NUMC = Stonybrook + AUC + NYCOM etc...)
Post Grad: Residency placement is entirely student dependent. If you bust your butt, you can work through DO bias in the area, but don't expect the school to help the average student. The running joke is that the school actually does more damage then good. Students after graduation give very very little back to NYCOM, most are happy to be out.
Cafeteria Food: Privately owned cafeteria, a little bit over priced but good and clean but often runs out of room during lunch as NYIT kids flock over.

Overall: NYCOM gives you very little bang for the buck. Terrible student to faculty ratio, limited library and study resources, very little on campus research or funding, unresponsive administration, poor oversight on 3rd and 4th year rotations with 30% being out of state and the majority an hour a way from the school, and a mother school, NYIT, who is really is only concerned the financial side of NYCOM makes NYCOM a bad choice.

Positives are location (i guess) being close to manhattan, the opportunity to rotate at large university hospitals in manhattan as a 4th year (if they let you, and very unlikely to take you for residency) and fellow students who generally all feel that we are going to get through this terrible time together.
First year students may disagree (no time to think about it), but the vast vast majority of NYCOM student graduates are very displeased about the services rendered by NYCOM.

 

[MossPoh]

Now tell us what you really think.

 

[Pony46]

Wow...that is one terrible review.

Wow.

 

[HarMegido]

Now tell us what you really think.

i felt it was an honest review. there were pros and their were cons, can't expect good things all the time

 

[MossPoh]

i felt it was an honest review. there were pros and their were cons, can't expect good things all the time

It was sarcasm homes.

 

[JaggerPlate]

It was sarcasm homes.

Sarcasm on SDN??? Never ...




some people are missing the detection gene.

 

[Siggy]

some people are missing the detection gene.

Well, the big question is is the gene dominant or recessive?

 

[Murphy Brown]

We cant. They are listening/watching you.

Is that a joke? Do they monitor SDN or something?

 

[tideleonheart]

I'm only a 1st year, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. Things may change! We'll see.

Curriculum: Combined systems based (SBL) and patient based (PBL). 2012 is the first year we've done this. 1st block is basic sciences, then the rest is systems based with PBL mixed in with a class called "CCC" - Clinical Case Correlations. CCC is not "controlled" very well because they ask clinicians from the area to come in and lecture. About half are good, half are bad. It IS nice to have early exposure to people discussing things that you WILL see in the real world. It could be done better, but we are getting benefit from it. For the straight up SBL classes, again, it's very dependant on the teacher. What I've experienced is that you learn about 90% of the material on your own. So does it matter really how good the lecturer is? Probably not. The worst thing about our curriculum is what we like to call "busy work." This is where a teacher will assign homework or group projects that simply take a lot of time and don't involve much learning. I hate all group projects. The good teachers here DO give us some helpful homework or optional sample test questions.

Attendance is "mandatory," but it is not enforced. (thank God) The only class you actually have to be here for is CCC - they give quizzes at the end of the lecture. We sit at around 90-100% attendance for most lectures, but only around 50-60% for the super boring, hard to understand lecturers (I think - I never go).

Location: Blacksburg, VA. College town with VT only 5 minutes from VCOM's campus. Beautiful mountains, not crowded, but still with plenty of stuff to do. I couldn't ask for a better location.

Cost: 33k. I hear we're under the average cost.

Faculty:
For administration: Overall they're pretty good. I think our dean could do a little better - she's a little stubborn on some things that need to change... but it seems like they're working on a lot right now. She's also a little standoff-ish of the students. Since orientation, she's only spoken to our class once. The new dean of our curriculum (Dolinski) is very nice and she seems like she knows what she's doing. I think she'll put a lot of positive influence into the curriculum.
For the teaching staff on a scale from 1-5:
Anatomy: 3 - main reason it's low is due to one of the teachers who will not be around for the Class of 2013, so this will probably go up. We're supposedly getting a new teacher who used to teach for MUSC and Wake.
Pathology: 4 - though some hate it - it's mostly learning on your own through online modules
Pharmacology: 5 - our best department, in my opinion.
Physiology: 3 - I feel like we need more physio in our curriculum.
OMM: 4 - Very relaxed class, but somehow everyone seems to learn it pretty well.
CCC: 1-5 depending on the teacher. (1: Berry; 5: Bolin)
Ethics: 5 - Miller is great
Micro: 2 - I may be biased; I dislike one of the teachers
Immuno: 4 - Prater is the nicest teacher ever

Reputation: New school - we're about to matriculate our 7th class, but it seems like we have gotten ourselves a pretty good reputation. From what I've been able to tell, DO school reputaiton has little to do with getting into residencies - it is mostly focused on board scores, audition rotations, etc...

Technology: We podcast most lectures. We don't have video of the lectures,

Clinical Rotations: About 25 different places ranging from NJ to SC. I've not heard anything bad about any rotation sites *yet*. I don't know much about them though.

Housing: Blacksburg is more expensive. Expect to pay 500-850. Christiansburg is less expensive (and you get to use the free gym there). Expect 450-750. Buying a house is a reasonable option if you have the ability. Housing prices are pretty low. $125,000 will get you a nice townhome. Pets are difficult to have in Blacksburg apartments if they are large. I would recommending not getting pets >20lbs. I have a dog who is >60lbs and it was difficult to find a place.

Study areas / Library: The library is nice with about 50 individual stations. There are around 9 larger student group rooms that hold 8 people each. There is talk for additional study area that would be small group groups for 2-4 people. I hope this goes through! Our library is mostly online. I never use it, honestly... I own all the books I need. Trust me though, you won't be spending a lot of your time scouring through mountains of textbooks. You simply don't have the time.

Social Scene: I was VERY surprised at how well I got along with all of the people here. Everyone's so nice and cool... There are very very few cut-throat people - everyone seems to help each other out. All of VT is within a few miles, there are plenty of bars, resturants, etc... Lots of nature stuff too - hiking, biking, running, exercising, sports. VCOM is able to take full part in VT intramural sports, also. Every year we have a few basketball, volleyball, and soccer teams. Also, we get to use all of VTs facilities and get to go to the football games for free. This rocks for the football fans.

Local Hospitals: Don't know... haven't heard anything bad.

Board Prep: We have Falcon Northwest (THE Dr. Goljan comes here - if you don't know who he is, you will) and a bunch of other options. It's all optional - I will probably study on my own for board prep.

Specialty: Foreign missions. There are many Christian-based, "faith"-based, and non-faith-based trips that happen each year. This is the main reason I chose VCOM as my 1st choice. We also seem to attract a higher than normal Christian population. Our CMDA group is very large and active with mission trips, bible studies, and activities.

Summary:
Curriculum: B
Location: A
Cost: B+
Faculty: B
Reputation: B
Technology: B+
Study Space/Library: A
Library technology/Resources: A
Rotations: ?
Social: A+
Hospitals: ?
Cafeteria Food: A new coffee/smoothie shop is opening up in 2 days on the 2nd floor. The menu looks great! It is a little expensive (normal starbucks type prices), but also looks very good.

Overall Grade: B+

Notable mention:
We have more breaks during the school year than average, but we end later than most schools. The bad part of this is for summer of year 1-2 research and for year 2 board prep. If you want lots of time for board prep, you'll either have to take the test a little later or just start heavy board studying during your classes. They are aware of this problem and each year they're pushing it back further and further. I hope they keep pushing it back!

 

[Thomas Hearns]

Some of those Touro- CA reviews sounded really bad... scared me


can I get any other input on that school? Sounded like the rotations were a mess

 

[ntm327]

Some of those Touro- CA reviews sounded really bad... scared me


can I get any other input on that school? Sounded like the rotations were a mess

I'm a first year student at Touro CA and I have to say that things are not nearly as dreadful as the previous poster makes them out to be. In looking back at this thread and at other Touro threads, it seems like he/she is very bitter about the experience here.

At any rate, a lot has been done in terms of rotations. We have blocks this week so I don't have time to get into it, but I will post later with my take on rotations (though I am a first year, I have many friends in the second year class who are about to start rotations, and I have strong relationships with many of the faculty as well). For now, know that things are ok (not amazing, but not the disaster that the previous person implied) and that the faculty are making concerted efforts to address student concerns as they arise.

 

[Thomas Hearns]

That's good to hear... I would like to hear what the 2nd+ year students would say about the rotations and any problems they had securing rotations or whatever was going on. I would like to go to school in this area, since it's close to where I live, but I want to make sure the school is good and affords me plenty of great opportunities

I'll be waiting to hear more from you!

 

[MasterShakeDO]

I'm a first year student at Touro CA and I have to say that things are not nearly as dreadful as the previous poster makes them out to be. In looking back at this thread and at other Touro threads, it seems like he/she is very bitter about the experience here.

Be careful dismissing said poster as an outlier because, I can assure you, he is not.

 

[Thomas Hearns]

Be careful dismissing said poster as an outlier because, I can assure you, he is not.

Anywhere I can read some of these other complaints?

 

[MasterShakeDO]

Anywhere I can read some of these other complaints?

Try my class's email listserv

I certainly would not dissuade you from going to Touro. I would call myself an outlier in that I didn't encounter many problems.
1st and 2nd years can really only comment on the preclinical education - which at Touro I believe is very, very good. Touro has excellent faculty who truly invest in your education. The OMM dept and resources are as good as it gets. The location is great and with block testing we got to enjoy San Francisco pretty regularly.
Quality of education dropped significantly 3rd and 4th year. This is an issue the admin is well aware of and working diligently to remedy. My class was dispersed throughout the country and we had very little contact with the school. We had little to no guidance in setting up our 4th year and in residency applications. Part of this was because of the continual staff juggling and subsequent dropoff in continuity. I hope with some stability in the Clinical Ed department these issues will be addressed. FWIW, I believe they are working extremely hard and making progress in securing more spots for your 3rd year core clerkships in the Bay Area.

 

[Thomas Hearns]

It sounds bad even when you try to not make it sound so bad

I'm still very concerned about the 3rd and 4th years after the limited things I have read... hoping to get more information about it. I'll still apply, since it's so close to my home, though, and right in the area I'd like to stay.

 

[endocardium]

So I guess no one can write one for KCUMB?

We cant. They are listening/watching you.

Yup.

Is that a joke? Do they monitor SDN or something?

It's no joke, bub. The administration/student affairs office is "big brother" and they wield "professionalism" as their hammer.

Anyway, here's something to chew on:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8161159&postcount=43

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8164200&postcount=55

 

[FutureInternist]

they wield "professionalism" as their hammer.

Dean @ TUNV does the same thing to quash any dissent to his dumb-ass policies.

 

[ShyRem]

Most schools have a dean or two that reads SDN. The difference is whether you get in trouble for it or not (although I think you can find someone at every school that acknowledges reading SDN who has been called into the office to "discuss" their postings at some point or other).

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Most schools have a dean or two that reads SDN. The difference is whether you get in trouble for it or not (although I think you can find someone at every school that acknowledges reading SDN who has been called into the office to "discuss" their postings at some point or other).

How do they know who you are?

 

[TeamZissou]

How do they know who you are?

They read your previous posts and depending on how much you share it wouldn't be hard to figure out. Haha especially if you have an mdapps or post your picture in the "What does everyone look like thread".

 

[JaggerPlate]

Most schools have a dean or two that reads SDN. The difference is whether you get in trouble for it or not (although I think you can find someone at every school that acknowledges reading SDN who has been called into the office to "discuss" their postings at some point or other).

You're saying students are called into offices because administrators read their posts on SDN, and want to discuss their behavior?? Interesting. Are these posts only pertaining to bad-mouthing schools, or just being a punk on SDN in general??

 

[ShyRem]

Jagger:

Generally due to bad-mouthing the school, airing dirty laundry, general gripes.

And it's not all that hard to figure out who people are. Folks who truly stay anonymous have to work really really hard to keep it that way.

 

[spicedmanna]

One need not say anything, sometimes, to express a point. As Leroy Brownlow puts it, “There are times when silence has the loudest voice.”

 

[Delphine]

I am confused. Don't we all read these things with a grain of salt? As well, don't we realize that when reading someone else's words there are always going to be things which are lost in our interpretation? And that their post only captures that persons opinion at that moment in time...only

and further still, transitory or permanent - one opinion of a person that noone knows.

This territory scares me.

 

[MossPoh]

I don't hide who I am on it, so I'm sure I'll get called in at some point. I tend to use colorful language and lots of sarcasm. Already had one guy from KCOM message me on facebook about something I said once. Preached to me about being professional, yet I didn't find it exactly professional to look me up on facebook and message me either.

 

[SirCuneus]

Can we get another for AZCOM and NSU? I realize the M2's there are studying for exams/boards....but...pleaaaase?! I have this ridiculous decision to make and so far i'm completely torn between the two schools. Anyone have any advice? please? pretty please?!?!?!

Don't go to AZCOM. The first 2 years get an A--I got a great education for the first two years.

Rotations are few and difficult to land in the Phoenix Valley. The class size is 250 now and there are no rotations for half of the class. They can't even get me an ER, Critical Care, Pulmonology, or a good plastic surgery rotation. Go to a school that's established with good rotations with residency programs.

 

[ShyRem]

"they can't get" you??? Get your own. Plenty of places have plastics rotations. Try a nice big city ED for EM rotations. Get online and look around -- applications are even filled out online these days, no stamp, instant submission.

Take this as an opportunity to branch out and see what else is out there. Go where you want to possibly look for a residency program. Scope out the area. And use some initiative.

 

[drmsm]

Wow...that is one terrible review.

Wow.

Having spent my first two years there, however, in PBL.....

I found the PBL/DPC program to be the one saving grace, otherwise I agree with said assessment. I'm sure you'll find many others with similar views.

The match also shows (aside from 20-25 stars out of 260ish) a pretty poor outcome most years.

 

[docbill]

Jagger:

Generally due to bad-mouthing the school, airing dirty laundry, general gripes.

And it's not all that hard to figure out who people are. Folks who truly stay anonymous have to work really really hard to keep it that way.

I recall when we were in the same class.. all the way back in 1st year, they knew who was who. And if they did not, they asked other classmates who is this person.

I know they asked who ShyRem was to another SDN member!!! They monitor everything and they threaten with professionalism or they wait till you slip up, then it comes back to bite you in the ... Also they can add it to your file. They can make your life difficult or easy... depending on what you say.

I personally don't agree with this, and I wish I had contacted more students and talked to them in person or on the phone before picking the school (UNECOM). Unfortunately many student at bad institutions are afraid to say something and feel trapped at one school that it become Stockholm syndrome.

 

[allopurinol]

So I guess no one can write one for KCUMB?

I'll take a shot at it. Disclaimer: I graduated from there in 2008, so what I contribute is based on my 4 years there. Hopefully someone still there can chime in.

Curriculum: 1st year, great. 2nd year, not so great because we had a bunch of faculty members who left, some during the academic year. Basically, it's systems-based and you're taught everything by body system. It gets a bit repetitive though, and they tend to teach the same disease over and over (rheumatoid arthritis was a favorite one during muscluloskeletal), and not enough about other ailments that afflict the body during that particular section (we could have definitely benefited from more plain films and fracture instruction during this section since broken bones are way more common than than RF)

Gross Anatomy: About 5 people per cadaver. You either went on Monday or Thursday. You studied what the people on your off day dissected, and then you'd dissect. You are finished with gross anatomy about 4-6 weeks into the second year, during neuro. Typically, you could come back and review whenever without a problem, but it tended to get crowded closer to practicals.

Location: Kansas City, inner city. Not the safest place, but I've been to worse. Just use common sense. Reasonably priced city. Good barbeque.

Cost: $38k+ for 2007-2008; $39k and some change for 2008-2009 for tuition only. It does not matter if you're in state or out-of-state, though some states would contribute some funds for towards their students' tuitions (not sure about now in light of the current ecoomic climate).

Faculty: Most of the great ones left at the end of my first year and during my second year. Not good when preparing for boards. One physiology professor was great, but the other person tends to teach it, especially in the areas you really have to master for the foundations of clinical practice (lots of self-directed study here, or else if will haunt you for boards and during clinical rotations). Anatomy is ok. Pathology is pretty good, but you have to navigate through lots of notes. Lots of guest lecturers, most of them are mediocre, at best.

Administration: Honestly, I think this is a big problem. The bottom line is money, and that's fine if you're getting what you pay for. There was a very paternalistic attitude towards the students, and this I think is secondary to ensuring the KCUMB brand is not tarnished so the tuition money will keep coming in.

OMM: Mediocre at best. The class is divided in 4 groups, and someone sits on the stage and demonstrates the technique and we would watch on television. Then the few professors/instructors would walk around and teach. Great, except the faculty/student ratio was ridiculously high. No much learning there. To really learn it, a few dedicated souls joined the undergraduate osteopathic organization (forgot the name), or better yet, got with their friends a day or 2 before the practical and crammed. The practical was pass/fail, but after my class, they implemented a letter system (I guess because my class did not take it seriously because the school gave us the illusion they did not take it seriously). I hope the execution is better.

Reputation: I assume it's pretty good, likely because it is one of the older school (1916) and graduates quite a few people. I can say, at least for my class, the reputation is because of the hard work of the students in spite of the school.

Clinical Rotations: People, people, people. This is what matters the most, regardless of what medical school you go to. There are many sites, scattered all over the country, as well as in Kansas City. They are hit and miss. Preceptors are not paid (when they are disgruntled enough with the school, you, or your peers, they will tell you this). This school places your education in the hands of your preceptor. Your education is at the discretion of your preceptor. Why? Because they volunteer to do this for CME. They are not paid faculty. This matters, because this is where you learn medicine. (There are a few in Kansas City that work for the school, but the majority are adjunct faculty which means you may have some trouble if you want to go to a program that wants letter of recommendation from full-time faculty that know you.) This is where you learn to make life and death decisions. In other words, this is where you learn to be a doctor. Now, some preceptors are great, and others are not so great. With such a large class, some are bound to have not so great preceptors. This is an awful lot of money to pay for a gamble. Worst case scenario: you realize that you got a poor clinical education in your third year and spend your fourth year making up the deficit during elective time. Now that I am a resident, I realized that this is a flawed system because you don't know what you're getting, and medicine is learned on the wards, period. My third year medical students are way ahead of the ball compared to where I was when I was in their place. During the 4th year, we had to do ER, cardio, and rural/underserved medicine at a core site; it may have changed since then. Don't be fooled by the nice campus, because this is not where you learn medicine-the hospital is.

Housing: You can get a decent apartment for 600-700/mo; cheaper if you have a roommate or rent a room. Gas is tended to be about the national average. I would not be without a car in that neighborhood.

Study areas: Fine, if you can get a space. Usually not a problem, but tends to get crowded around exam time. Smith Hall has study rooms, not sure of the exact number, but about 50, give or take a few. The library is small.

Social Scene: Not bad. The Plaza (downtown) and Zona Rosa (north) are about 10 and 15 minutes from school, respectively.

Board Prep: On your own, though they allow Kaplan to use the school for classes (you pay for Kaplan).

Happiness of Student Body: Most of my class, for the most part, glad to be done. I can't speak for others.

 

[spicedmanna]

I'll take a shot at it. Disclaimer: I graduated from there in 2008, so what I contribute is based on my 4 years there. Hopefully someone still there can chime in.

I don't have much to add, allopurinol, except to say that my class may have had similar experiences, perhaps to an even greater extent in some cases. I won't and probably can't say more since I am still in attendance at the school.

The only other thing I think I will add is to advise people looking at schools to look beyond your initial experiences from the interview, because it can be tweaked. I'm saying this as general advice. Some schools focus on marketing more than others and are good at impression-management. For example, a very pretty wrapper for a candy might make you think that the candy is particularly sweet or tasty. Open the wrapper and take a look at what you are going to be getting. Look for VALUE.

 

[DiverDoc]

Plus who knows what the NEW curriculum will bring to the table. Its still 'system based' but testing/quizzes will be different, and of course us (now 2nd years) will be subjected to all the kinks that go along with a new approach.... I feel real bad for the ones in the dual MBA program... I heard they get like 2 weeks for board prep.

 

[DO Down]

As an RVU student who has finished the first year on very solid ground, I can say that you all should consider how fortunate you are given our situation. We are waiting to be rescued by the AOA (details that can be viewed in the Osteopathic student thread) and only have a few weeks left remaining after a grueling first year.

I hope that the DO governing body, the AOA/COCA, has the strength and will to help the 100+ students who have sent their signatures to them begging for help.

Best to all of you med students and here's to hoping there might be a seat or two at various osteopathic schools where we might be welcomed and rescued from this sinking ship. That or maybe conversion to a satellite osteopathic medical branch is in order (wishful, I know - but not impossible).

 

[DiverDoc]

As an RVU student who has finished the first year on very solid ground, I can say that you all should consider how fortunate you are given our situation. We are waiting to be rescued by the AOA (details that can be viewed in the Osteopathic student thread) and only have a few weeks left remaining after a grueling first year.

I hope that the DO governing body, the AOA/COCA, has the strength and will to help the 100+ students who have sent their signatures to them begging for help.

Best to all of you med students and here's to hoping there might be a seat or two at various osteopathic schools where we might be welcomed and rescued from this sinking ship. That or maybe conversion to a satellite osteopathic medical branch is in order (wishful, I know - but not impossible).

Forgive my ignorance, but why "is your ship sinking" ?

 

[Handy388]

Forgive my ignorance, but why "is your ship sinking" ?

RVU fired all the local physician board members at the whim of its financial backer, persumably wanting to turn a profit faster.

 

[WDeagle]

RVU fired all the local physician board members at the whim of its financial backer, persumably wanting to turn a profit faster.

Gosh, who could have forseen this coming with the first for-profit medical school in the country!

 

[Handy388]

yeah, accrediting a for profit DO school is incredibly short sighted. It drags down the whole profession, really.

DOs need to be known as trained physician who can accomplish the same thing as MDs, not McDOs that graduate from for profit technical schools at every street corner

 

[AZCOM2010]

Don't go to AZCOM. The first 2 years get an A--I got a great education for the first two years.

Rotations are few and difficult to land in the Phoenix Valley. The class size is 250 now and there are no rotations for half of the class. They can't even get me an ER, Critical Care, Pulmonology, or a good plastic surgery rotation. Go to a school that's established with good rotations with residency programs.

I concur. AZCOM has a great first two years, but believe me, the lack of rotations is far, far, far more important. You're not going to get good ones through the school, and for third year, you have to do your rotations where the school sends you. With a class size of 250, they are sending people to other states, and said people get no choice in the matter. Do yourself a favor and go elsewhere.

 

[Lastmanstanding]

yeah, accrediting a for profit DO school is incredibly short sighted. It drags down the whole profession, really.

DOs need to be known as trained physician who can accomplish the same thing as MDs, not McDOs that graduate from for profit technical schools at every street corner

As an RVU student as well I can tell you that the former poster is ill informed at best and at worst is flat out fabricating this notion that we are on a sinking ship or that we need the AOA to bail us out. I guess he or she was at the meeting but didn't get the memo.

As for you, you have no idea what you are talking about. NONE. the fact that you stated it was at the whim of our financial backer so he could turn a quicker profit is ludicrous? Really you'd do better to keep your mouth shut about things which you, at best, know a fraction of the story. Do you also go out and start prescribing beta blockers after you sit in on a pharm lecture as well?

Futhermore, I'll put my education up against yours any day. And if you haven't taken Step I yet...I'll be glad to release my board score next year to a neutral 3rd party and have it compared to yours and I'll bet my last dollar it will top yours by at least 20 points (if we are talking USMLE). so you're willing talk it let's see how strong your convictions are. otherwise stick to talking about what you know...which, based on your posts, isn't much.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

It really seems this anti-DO Down posts are written by the same person with new screenames andonly 2 posts.. and they have an agenda. I'm very curious as to how this turns out.....

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I concur. AZCOM has a great first two years, but believe me, the lack of rotations is far, far, far more important. You're not going to get good ones through the school, and for third year, you have to do your rotations where the school sends you. With a class size of 250, they are sending people to other states, and said people get no choice in the matter. Do yourself a favor and go elsewhere.

You know, that really baffles me. I just graduated from CCOM and our clinical rotations were pretty damn amazing.