Pros and Cons of your DO School

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Just finished first year at LECOM-Bradenton.


Curriculum: Anatomy is lecture-based, PBL for basic sciences, once weekly lectures for Clinical Education and OMM. At the end of first year are mini-courses that rely on lecture and independent reading for Advanced Clinical Nutrition, Ethics and Public Health. Anatomy is FAST - 10 weeks. It is the same course that the course director taught at USF in 20 weeks. It's a lot of work, but the faculty are great, in my opinion. Your success will be dictated by how much time you put in.

I absolutely love PBL. With most PBL exams, there is also some assigned reading, in addition to the topics we picked from cases. I've come to realize I don't learn the assigned reading as well as I do the other stuff, and it's partly because I don't read it to understand the case. If you have a problem-solving, investigative attitude about learning, PBL will be great for you. It's a ton of work, but I LOVE not having lectures for basic sciences. My advisors were great about helping me with any issues I had regarding PBL.

The Clinical Education course needs some work. They have a core faculty, plus guest lecturers that come in depending on speciality. The exams suck, they are not well-written, and sometimes we think they are testing out of a book that was used in previous years, instead of the new one they assigned. The good news is they are listening to our critiques and changing the course a bit. We have "skill session" and "focused exam workshops" to learn history taking and physical techniques. I don't have anything to complain about with that, nor anything to rave about. It's fine.

Our course director for OMM is Dr. Fotop. His lectures are not good, but the guy is awesome. He's a genius with OMM and he's the most personable, coolest prof I've ever met. Written and practical exams are fair.

Technology: Uhh...yeah, well, we download powerpoints from the portal for any lectures. I'm not sure what sort of technology we'll be introduced to in second year. In the lab we had access to Anatomy Revealed, which is a pretty cool anatomy program. At this point in our education, I can't think of much more we'd need as far as technology goes.

Testing: Almost everything is multiple choice. We have practical exams for clinical education and OMM. With PBL, sometimes I'd hear complaints of questions being on the test that the group did not pick. One mistake like that was made for my group, and the course director acknowledged the problem and assured us that those questions are dropped. For anatomy, the "practical" section of the exams consisted of projected photos of cadavers and histo slides. Depending on your eyesight and where you sit, that can be an issue. We had a problem with the perspective of some of the photos, and when we brought this to the professor he changed them to make that easier.

Location: I'm from Buffalo, so this environment is a welcome change. I love it. Most students live closer to the school, but I wanted to be closer to the beach and in a more heavily populated area, so I went further west. My apt complex is called Fountain Lake of Bradenton, and it's great. Bradenton is okay, there are nice parts and crappy parts. There are plenty of areas nearby for fishing, kayaking, hiking, etc. Siesta key is 20 min away, and Sarasota has lots of great restaurants, bars, clubs, etc. For me, being in such a beautiful location, especially with the freedom of PBL, helps me deal with the stress of school. I can start my day by walking around a gorgeous lake, fishing, laying out by the pool, reading on my lanai, or I can take my books to the beach. Also, St. Pete and Tampa are within an hour away.

Cost: The loans are more than enough to live on. The LECOM's the cheapest DO school, but it's still expensive.

Faculty: Mostly good. I've never had a negative interaction. They seem open and willing to hear what students have to say. The faculty that I don't like so much have been very minor players in the grand scheme of things, but the big guns - the directors for anatomy and PBL - they are awesome. I've heard other things about the administration, but I can't speak about that from personal experience.

Study areas: Library is nice, but chilly, like most of the school. No eating or drinking in PBL rooms, which sucks. But hey, everything's clean. The PBL rooms are quite nice, and lots of people study in the cafeteria.

Clinical rotations: They just changed this, and I'm not super happy about it, although I'm sure some people are. Previously, students basically had to set up their own rotations with affiliates for core rotations, and with whoever they want for electives. Now, we will be telling LECOM what geographical area we'd like, and they will match us up with affiliates. I was planning to do my research and set myself up with the places I wanted, and now I won't have a choice except to tell them I want to stay in the Tampa Bay area. The biggest critique of the old system was that students had to do too much themselves and they wanted more help. Well, now you don't have to do anything really.

Housing: No campus housing. Most people seem satisfied with their apartments. There's plenty of affordable housing in the area. Some students get together and rent condos or houses.

Social scene: Uhh, I'm not as plugged into the social scene as a lot of people. I moved here with my boyfriend, and we don't live in one of the complexes where most of the students are. I have a small circle of close friends, and that's more my style. But if you're coming here alone and looking to make a crap load of friends, it seems easy to do. There are lots of clubs and events all the time.

To sum up:

Curriculum: A
Location: A+
Cost: B
Faculty: A-
Housing: A-
Study space: B+
Social scene: A
Reputation: B
Overall: A-

This one's a couple years old, so I figured I'll update as much as I can. If I dont mention a particular area, you can assume not much has changed since illegal's review.

PBL - I also loved PBL. 3 days a week during 1st year, down to 2 days a week for second year. Typical schedule for 2nd year:

Monday - PBL 730-930am
Tuesday - nothing
Wednesday - nothing
Thursday - something like 8-12am for OMM and Clin Ed
Friday - PBL 730-930 am

You have a ton of free time, I was able to get a good jump start on step 1 studying during the second half of year two and still kept up with my classes without problem,

Clin Ed - Its still terrible. The instructors really care, and theyre very nice, but the class is just crap. Tests are bad, they did finally fix the tests to an extent. Yes, they were asking questions from an old text and hadnt updated the exam to reflect the new text they assigned.

The standardized patient encounters are basically worthless. You have such an incredibly short amount of time in the room, and you have to go through an exact, pre-determined list of tests. You have so little time that you dont actually have time to do a real exam. So you just go through the motions and make up your findings. Taking a BP? Just slap it on, pretend that your listening, and say 120/80, and move on to peripheral pulses. Actually trying to find the popliteal pulse? Yeah effing right, unless you can find it in about 2-3 seconds youve taken too much time. The only thing that matters is going through the motions and saying some sort of finding out loud. I felt completely unprepared for the clinics.

OMM - Dr. Fotop is awesome, I personally thought his lectures were pretty good. He teaches the class for the boards, and only makes you learn whats relevant to comlex. He isnt an "old school" DO, and he thinks cranial is BS just like the majority of us. I only spent about 1 day reviewing OMM before the comlex and i scored extremely well, it was my best subject (and I hate omm). tests are pretty fair, and most students just cram about 2-3 days before the test and do well.

steps - we get about 1 month of for both step 1 and 2 studying.

technology - I wish we had some practice dummies to help learn cardio, respiratory, etc. Every other medical school I interviewed at had them, lecom-b does not. We actually have 1 simulation we do in our second year that has them... but its at some local nursing school. So the nursing school has them... but the medical school doesnt.

testing - agree with above

location - bradenton sucks, but the school is in an area called lakewood ranch, which is very nice and very safe. weather is good, and some of the best beaches in the world are within a 30 minute drive. there isnt much nightlife in the area, but people always found somewhere to go out.

social scene - Im married, so I wasnt really involved. There was a pretty close nit group of about 30-40 people that went out a lot however.

housing - you can expect $800-1100 for a decent 1.1 apartment close to school. lots of people are willing to get roommates however, so if thats your route then you wont have problems. good mix of people living in houses, condos, and apts

cost - very good considering I am oos, though it just took a $2k jump to 31000 per year.

faculty - agree with above

Clinical rotations - there are a couple of different routes.

Year longs - they really seem to be pushing year long rotations lately. If you qualify for one (3.0 gpa), you do all 6 core rotations at the same site (allegedly). Past the cores, you call around to different rotations on the list of affiliates and fill in the gaps. I wanted to live in tampa and was able to do so, and never had to commute more than 45 minutes. I did my "year long" in brandon, but it wasnt actually a year long. They were lacking peds and psych, so I had to set them up on my own. Peds and OB are in short supply in florida, I was lucky to find something.

Non year longs - from what I understand, you give them a location, and they set up your cores for you. Im not sure on that process however, b/c I was not part of it.

Due to the affiliation with lecom-erie, many of our affiliates are up north (PA, Ohio, NY). From what I know, no one was forced to move up north for rotations, but many people did do their rotations up there.

electives - one thing I really liked is that we get 2 electives during 3rd year that allow us to do anything we want. was able to set up anesthesia and pathology, really liked anesthesia and thats what im planning on matching to. Ive heard of many schools that give you absolutely no electives during 3rd year.

Expansion They recently upped the class size from 150->200. Like I mentioned earlier, peds and OB were tough to find in florida, they may have to start forcing people up north if there arent enough spaces to go around. Thats purely a guess from me, but I know I had trouble findings peds with only 150 students.

4th year - EM is set up through the clin ed dpt, but after that, you set up everything else yourself.

Overall - I really like the school. The light schedule during preclinical years and the amount of flexibility we get during clinical years is a huge plus. The school seems to match well, and the connection to lecom-erie seems to help students match into the Erie DO residencies. I would definitely go here again, and wouldnt hesitate to recommend it to a friend.

*Weird note - with the opening of the dental school the idea was 1st year medical students to take PBL along with the dental students. I was extremely against this, but it happened anyways. From what Ive heard, about half the dental students failed the first PBL test, and they already changed it back to medical students being separate from dental students. This part needs to be confirmed, as this year was the first time it was tried and this is just what I heard from a fellow 3rd year.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
Good review. I'm finishing up third year and I agree with most of what you said. A couple of things:

(1) Yes, tuition will decrease a bit next year
(2) Yes, all students will get an iPad, including the Class of 2014
(3) No more quizzes during rotations. We now have assignments, a log, and shelf exams

I'll write a more thorough review once I start 4th year and get a feel for what that's like, but I pretty much agree with babdoc's review. I'll also repeat what was said upthread -- no school is 100% perfect. Every school will have kinks here and there and students who are disgruntled. But if you look at it in the context of the four years, I think you'll see less criticism than you would if you look at it from the perspective of, say, a first-year studying for the renal final.

I am finishing up my first year and like it here. KCUMB is growing and learning from previous faults. The current dean of medicine had done more for the school than anyone has done in the past 5 years. Dr. Hahn implemented the iPad's and has worked hard to fix all of the 3rd and 4th year rotation issues. Also I sat in on presentations by candidates for President and I will say the school is heading in the correct direction.
 
I respect your point of view and I certainly respect and admire Dr. Hahn. I know he's a wonderful asset to our school. That said, this is your first year, so please don't assume that the previous dean didn't do wonderful things for the school as well. Also, as a first year, I'm not sure how you can comment on 3rd and 4th year rotations.

True, I am not sure if 3rd & 4th yr rotations have improved at all but I know he is doing a lot to improve them. I know a lot of students are dissatisfied with them. But I have friends who are 3rd, 4th years and one that has graduated, they commented how proactive he has been with his ideas.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
This one's a couple years old, so I figured I'll update as much as I can. If I dont mention a particular area, you can assume not much has changed since illegal's review.

PBL - I also loved PBL. 3 days a week during 1st year, down to 2 days a week for second year. Typical schedule for 2nd year:

Monday - PBL 730-930am
Tuesday - nothing
Wednesday - nothing
Thursday - something like 8-12am for OMM and Clin Ed
Friday - PBL 730-930 am

You have a ton of free time, I was able to get a good jump start on step 1 studying during the second half of year two and still kept up with my classes without problem,

Clin Ed - Its still terrible. The instructors really care, and theyre very nice, but the class is just crap. Tests are bad, they did finally fix the tests to an extent. Yes, they were asking questions from an old text and hadnt updated the exam to reflect the new text they assigned.

The standardized patient encounters are basically worthless. You have such an incredibly short amount of time in the room, and you have to go through an exact, pre-determined list of tests. You have so little time that you dont actually have time to do a real exam. So you just go through the motions and make up your findings. Taking a BP? Just slap it on, pretend that your listening, and say 120/80, and move on to peripheral pulses. Actually trying to find the popliteal pulse? Yeah effing right, unless you can find it in about 2-3 seconds youve taken too much time. The only thing that matters is going through the motions and saying some sort of finding out loud. I felt completely unprepared for the clinics.

OMM - Dr. Fotop is awesome, I personally thought his lectures were pretty good. He teaches the class for the boards, and only makes you learn whats relevant to comlex. He isnt an "old school" DO, and he thinks cranial is BS just like the majority of us. I only spent about 1 day reviewing OMM before the comlex and i scored extremely well, it was my best subject (and I hate omm). tests are pretty fair, and most students just cram about 2-3 days before the test and do well.

steps - we get about 1 month of for both step 1 and 2 studying.

technology - I wish we had some practice dummies to help learn cardio, respiratory, etc. Every other medical school I interviewed at had them, lecom-b does not. We actually have 1 simulation we do in our second year that has them... but its at some local nursing school. So the nursing school has them... but the medical school doesnt.

testing - agree with above

location - bradenton sucks, but the school is in an area called lakewood ranch, which is very nice and very safe. weather is good, and some of the best beaches in the world are within a 30 minute drive. there isnt much nightlife in the area, but people always found somewhere to go out.

social scene - Im married, so I wasnt really involved. There was a pretty close nit group of about 30-40 people that went out a lot however.

housing - you can expect $800-1100 for a decent 1.1 apartment close to school. lots of people are willing to get roommates however, so if thats your route then you wont have problems. good mix of people living in houses, condos, and apts

cost - very good considering I am oos, though it just took a $2k jump to 31000 per year.

faculty - agree with above

Clinical rotations - there are a couple of different routes.

Year longs - they really seem to be pushing year long rotations lately. If you qualify for one (3.0 gpa), you do all 6 core rotations at the same site (allegedly). Past the cores, you call around to different rotations on the list of affiliates and fill in the gaps. I wanted to live in tampa and was able to do so, and never had to commute more than 45 minutes. I did my "year long" in brandon, but it wasnt actually a year long. They were lacking peds and psych, so I had to set them up on my own. Peds and OB are in short supply in florida, I was lucky to find something.

Non year longs - from what I understand, you give them a location, and they set up your cores for you. Im not sure on that process however, b/c I was not part of it.

Due to the affiliation with lecom-erie, many of our affiliates are up north (PA, Ohio, NY). From what I know, no one was forced to move up north for rotations, but many people did do their rotations up there.

electives - one thing I really liked is that we get 2 electives during 3rd year that allow us to do anything we want. was able to set up anesthesia and pathology, really liked anesthesia and thats what im planning on matching to. Ive heard of many schools that give you absolutely no electives during 3rd year.

Expansion They recently upped the class size from 150->200. Like I mentioned earlier, peds and OB were tough to find in florida, they may have to start forcing people up north if there arent enough spaces to go around. Thats purely a guess from me, but I know I had trouble findings peds with only 150 students.

4th year - EM is set up through the clin ed dpt, but after that, you set up everything else yourself.

Overall - I really like the school. The light schedule during preclinical years and the amount of flexibility we get during clinical years is a huge plus. The school seems to match well, and the connection to lecom-erie seems to help students match into the Erie DO residencies. I would definitely go here again, and wouldnt hesitate to recommend it to a friend.

*Weird note - with the opening of the dental school the idea was 1st year medical students to take PBL along with the dental students. I was extremely against this, but it happened anyways. From what Ive heard, about half the dental students failed the first PBL test, and they already changed it back to medical students being separate from dental students. This part needs to be confirmed, as this year was the first time it was tried and this is just what I heard from a fellow 3rd year.

thank you so much for this update! much appreciated.

Edit: a current student clarified on the school fb page that dental students will no longer be in the same PBL group as medical students.
 
Last edited:
Thought I'd bump this thread as the new school year is starting for c/o 2017 folks, and will also allow c/o applicants to see some new, fresh reviews of schools if any current students would like to add their opinions.

With that said, anyone have anything to say about UMDNJ-SOM? Last review was a long time ago!
 
Just graduated from UMDNJ-SOM.

I posted a review on this thread years ago covering first year. I still stand by most of what I stated there, although with the caveat that the curriculum has been further revamped to make exam blocks less intense than they were for us. Block exams are now broken down by subject and given over the course of a week, which leads to much less cramming and stress.

As for the 3rd/4th year experience...well, it left a lot to be desired. These were the major issues:

- The class sizes have been getting bigger and bigger every year. The class before us had ~115 students; ours had ~135; the class after ours has around 160. Predictably, these increases are causing the 'core' rotation sites to become overloaded with students. While the school has addressed this somewhat by finding a number of new rotation sites, the quality control at the new sites is uneven at best, with some sites delivering very poor experiences. (For instance, 3 weeks of my internal medicine rotation took place at a hospital with no didactics, no morning report/noon conference, no residents, and an attending who would not even let us examine patients because of 'liability concerns'.) Another problem is that many of these new sites are a long drive away from the main campus; one major site is about 45 minutes away, which is a problem when its OB rotation demands you be there from 6a-6p 5-6 days a week.

- There's a mandatory 2-week radiology rotation during third year. The increases in class size have caused the school to run out of radiology spots in-system; their solution is to tell the 20-25% of the class that didn't get an in-system spot to 'find one yourself'. Problem: most academic institutions will not accept third year medical students for two week radiology rotations, thus many students end up having to search around for local radiologists that are willing to take them in. These local practices have become fed up with this, and many won't take students anymore. After calling more than 40 locations, I had to drive to Princeton (100 mile round trip) for two weeks to get that damn rotation done. Naturally, the school gives students practically no assistance in finding these out-of-system rotations.

- The people who are in charge of handling 4th year rotations/aways/etc are unhelpful, disorganized, and ultimately unapologetic when things don't get handled properly. For instance, I had an away sub-i scheduled at least 4-5 months in advance. This rotation site required an affiliation agreement with our school. Knowing that the office was grossly disorganized, I notified them several times of this and received an email implying that action had been taken on it. With about a week to go, I asked about the status of the agreement and was told that the paperwork had never been submitted to the legal department (!) and that it usually took said department months to produce an answer (!!). Because of this, my sub-I was cancelled and I was forced to find an alternative rotation at the last minute. (This was a problem because I was kinda relying on that rotation for IM rec letters...yeah.) Just to rub it in, I got an email a month and a half later eagerly telling me that my affiliation agreement had been approved.

- Many questionable decisions have been made in terms of how much time gets allocated to the various 3rd year rotations. FM gets an overly generous 12 weeks, two of which are a worthless 'AHEC community health' rotation which usually has little to do with medicine. There is also a mandatory 4 week geriatrics rotation, which most students frankly don't find to be that helpful. Because FM and geriatrics claim 16 weeks between them, IM and surgery end up getting a scant 6 weeks apiece. One week of IM is outpatient, meaning that you get 5 total weeks of inpatient IM experience as a 3rd year (one week of geri is inpatient, but it's not really the same as IM wards). The quality of these rotations is often questionable. I wrote very few notes on IM; as I stated above, 3 of my impatient weeks were spent in places where I couldn't examine patients/write notes, and while my other two weeks were better I still did not get to do many H&Ps/notes/procedures there either. OB was simply awful; I selected a specific OB site because I was told there were no residents there and students got to do almost everything. When we finally got there, an OB program had materialized...meaning that the students basically got to do nothing. The residents were extremely nasty to students and the site director insisted the students work the same hours as the the residents (6a-6p)...this was 45-60 min from my apartment...I never delivered, never got to do a speculum exam, and basically spent 12 hours a day 5-6 days a week with my thumb up my ass on an L&D ward in Nowheresville, NJ. Meanwhile, the students on the 'core' OB rotation were working 7:30-3:30 M-F...our site director refused to change hours despite repeated requests from the school. I could go on and on about how ****ty some of these rotations were. I spent some of peds in a clinic where nobody spoke English and nobody translated for me (as there 'wasn't time for that')...that was real useful. On surgery, we were told to 'man the ORs' whenever we were on duty...this led to me witnessing some incredible procedures (liver/kidney tx), but I got practically zero surgical management experience on the floors, never wrote notes of any kind, and never saw the inside of a surgical clinic. There were occasional bright spots (FM was actually a really good experience outside of the AHEC weeks, as was psych), but overall 3rd year was bad >>> good.

- There are different 'tracks' for 3rd/4th year...the 'North Track' caters to people who want to live/stay in North Jersey. People seemed to be relatively satisfied with it, but the actual quality of those rotations sounds somewhat questionable (some North Trackers told me that on surgery they rarely scrubbed in and basically spent most of their time chilling in the library, sometimes going home at noon).

- UMDNJ got busted up by Chris Christie, and SOM got picked up by Rowan University. I'm going to refrain from commenting on this extensively because I just don't know many details about it. I've heard both good things (Rowan's going to invest money and enhance research at SOM!) and bad things (Rowan just wants SOM for its rotation sites...why would it operate two medical schools, since it already has Cooper...SOM will eventually be shut down...etc.) It still looks like we won't be rotating at Cooper, which is a large university hospital that used to be a UMDNJ-RWJ rotation site but has now become the centerpiece of Rowan's MD school.

- The social scene here still sucks. I talked a bit about this in my earlier posts, and nothing really improved in later years. Our class was filled with people who wanted to drink and party, and if this wasn't your thing...tough ****. I ultimately did find a few equally disenchanted people throughout 3rd/4th year, and I still regard these people as good friends.

- The school makes you pay for Kaplan Step 2 lectures unless you hit 600 on COMLEX level 1 (I got 588...bah). At least the school gave everyone a month off for step 2 studying...but I'm going to be paying interest for decades on the $2k I had to drop for the Kaplan stuff, even though I never touched it (249/634 on step 2, baby).

- There's more mandatory rotation stupidity 4th year, including a palliative care/pain mgmt/hospice mashup rotation that has a required shelf exam and brutal oral exam about random PM&R nonsense (as 4th years...blah).

- Advising is essentially nonexistent, but I get the impression that this is endemic to DO education in general.

Overall

I'm gonna be honest here...if I could do this over, I'd go MD. If I had to go osteopathic, I'd go somewhere else. If I was somebody living in the area and I wanted to go DO and not go far (seemingly the target audience for SOM), I'd go to PCOM. I know people at that school, and they are legitimately happy with it...PCOM seems to actually have its **** together, and the experience seems to be much better overall. Most people in our class were thoroughly disenchanted with SOM by the time 4th year hit. I'm just glad to be done with it. I managed to match an upper-middle tier ACGME IM program that I'm very happy with so far, so clearly good matching is possible coming out of SOM...but I really feel like my match was more in spite of the school than because of it.

PM me if you have any other questions.
 
Last edited:
Any recent reviews for LECOM-Erie or LECOM-Seton Hill? Thanks!
 
Just graduated from UMDNJ-SOM.

I posted a review on this thread years ago covering first year. I still stand by most of what I stated there, although with the caveat that the curriculum has been further revamped to make exam blocks less intense than they were for us. Block exams are now broken down by subject and given over the course of a week, which leads to much less cramming and stress.

As for the 3rd/4th year experience...well, it left a lot to be desired. These were the major issues:

- The class sizes have been getting bigger and bigger every year. The class before us had ~115 students; ours had ~135; the class after ours has around 160. Predictably, these increases are causing the 'core' rotation sites to become overloaded with students. While the school has addressed this somewhat by finding a number of new rotation sites, the problem is that the quality control at the new sites is uneven at best, with some sites delivering very poor experiences. (For instance, 3 weeks of my internal medicine rotation took place at a hospital with no didactics, no morning report/noon conference, no residents, and an attending who would not even let us examine patients because of 'liability concerns'.) Another problem is that many of these new sites are a long drive away from the main campus; one major site is about 45 minutes away, which is a problem when its OB rotation demands you be there from 6a-6p 5-6 days a week.

- There's a mandatory 2-week radiology rotation during third year. The increases in class size have caused the school to run out of radiology spots in-system; their solution to this is to tell the 20-25% of the class that didn't get an in-system spot to 'find one yourself'. Problem: most academic institutions will not accept third year medical students for two week radiology rotations, thus many students end up having to search around for local radiologists that are willing to take them in. These local practices have become fed up with this, and many won't take students anymore. After calling more than 40 locations, I had to drive to Princeton (100 mile round trip) for two weeks to get that damn rotation done. Naturally, the school gives students practically no assistance in finding these out-of-system rotations.

- The people who are in charge of handling 4th year rotations/aways/etc are unhelpful, disorganized, and ultimately unapologetic when things don't get handled properly. For instance, I had an away sub-i scheduled at least 4-5 months in advance. This rotation site required an affiliation agreement with our school. Knowing that the office was grossly disorganized, I notified them several times of this and received an email implying that action had been taken on it. With about a week to go, I asked about the status of the agreement and was told that the paperwork had never been submitted to the legal department (!) and that it usually took said department months to produce an answer (!!). Because of this, my sub-I was cancelled and I was forced to find an alternative rotation at the 11th hour. (This was a problem because I was kinda relying on that rotation for IM rec letters...yeah.) Just to rub it in, I got an email a month and a half later eagerly telling me that my affiliation agreement had been approved.

- Many questionable decisions have been made in terms of how much time gets allocated to the various 3rd year rotations. FM gets an overly generous 12 weeks, two of which are a worthless 'AHEC community health' rotation (which usually has little to do with medicine and basically becomes 2 weeks of forced community service, with medical students filing papers at community health offices). There is also a mandatory 4 week geriatrics rotation, which most students frankly don't find to be that helpful. Because FM and geriatrics claim 16 weeks between them, IM and surgery end up getting a scant 6 weeks apiece. One week of IM is outpatient, meaning that you get 5 total weeks of inpatient IM experience as a 3rd year (one week of geri is inpatient, but it's not really the same as IM wards). The quality of these rotations is often questionable. I wrote very few notes on IM; as I stated above, 3 of my impatient weeks were spent in places where I couldn't examine patients/write notes, and while my other two weeks were better I still did not get to do many H&Ps/notes/procedures there either. OB was simply awful; I selected a specific OB site because I was told there were no residents there and students got to do almost everything. When we got there the year after choosing sites, an OB program had been started up...meaning that the students basically got to do nothing. The residents were extremely nasty to students and the site director insisted the students work the same hours as the the residents (6a-6p)...this was 45-60 min from my apartment...I never delivered, never got to do a speculum exam, and basically spent 12 hours a day 5-6 days a week with my thumb up my ass on an L&D ward in Nowheresville, NJ. Meanwhile, the students on the 'core' OB rotation were working 7:30-3:30 M-F...our site director refused to change hours despite repeated requests from the school. I could go on and on about how ****ty some of these rotations were. I spent some of peds in a clinic where nobody spoke English and nobody translated for me (as there 'wasn't time for that')...that was real useful. On surgery, we were told to 'man the ORs' whenever we were on duty...this led to me witnessing some incredible procedures (liver/kidney tx), but I got practically zero surgical management experience on the floors, never wrote notes of any kind, and never saw the inside of a surgical clinic. There were occasional bright spots (FM was actually a really good experience outside of the AHEC weeks), but overall 3rd year was bad>>>good.

- There are different 'tracks' for 3rd/4th year...the 'North Track' caters to people who want to live/stay in North Jersey. People seemed to be relatively satisfied with it, but the actual quality of those rotations sounds somewhat questionable (some North Trackers told me that on surgery they rarely scrubbed in and basically spent most of their time chilling in the library, sometimes going home at noon).

- UMDNJ got busted up by Chris Christie, and SOM got picked up by Rowan University. I'm going to refrain from commenting on this too much because I don't know many details. I've heard both good things (Rowan's going to invest money and enhance research at SOM!) and bad things (Rowan just wants SOM for its rotation sites...why would it operate two medical schools, since it already has Cooper...SOM will eventually be shut down...etc.) It still looks like we won't be rotating at Cooper, which is a large university hospital that used to be an RWJ rotation site but has now become the centerpiece of Rowan's MD school.

- The social scene here still sucks. I talked a bit about this in my earlier posts, and nothing really improved in later years. Our class was filled with people who wanted to drink and party, and if this wasn't your thing...tough ****. I ultimately did find a few equally disenchanted people throughout 3rd/4th year, and I still regard these people as good friends.

- The school makes you pay for Kaplan Step 2 lectures unless you hit 600 on COMLEX level 1 (I got 588...bah). At least the school gave everyone a month off for step 2 studying...but I'm going to be paying interest for decades on the $2k I had to drop for the Kaplan stuff, even though I never touched it (249/634 on step 2, baby).

- There's more mandatory rotation stupidity 4th year, including a palliative care/pain mgmt/hospice mashup rotation that has a required shelf exam and brutal oral exam about random PM&R nonsense (as 4th years...blah).

- Advising is essentially nonexistent, but I get the impression that this is endemic to DO education in general.

Overall

I'm gonna be honest here...if I could do this over knowing what I know now, I'd go MD. If I had to do DO, I'd go somewhere else. If I was somebody living in the area and I wanted to go DO and not go far (seemingly the target audience for SOM), I'd go to PCOM. I know people at that school, and they are legitimately happy with it...PCOM seems to actually have its **** together, and the experience seems to be much better overall. Most people in our class were thoroughly disenchanted with SOM by the time 4th year hit. I'm just glad to be done with it. I managed to match an upper-middle tier ACGME IM program that I'm very happy with so far, so good matching coming out of SOM is clearly possible...but I really feel like my match was more in spite of the school than because of it.

PM me if you have any other questions.

That's surprising.
 
That's surprising.

Yeah, I was surprised too. I always thought UMDNJ had strong clinicals, but hearing about all that disorganization, while at the same time requiring you to do harder to find rotations does not seem pleasant. I'm worried about what these sudden expansions will mean for clinical education at a lot of DO schools in the next few years (especially considering I'm starting at one in a month).
 
PM me if you have any other questions.

That radiology requirement is particularly shameful if they don't have enough positions for everyone. Students should never be required to search for their own core rotations because of class sizes being too big; that is a fault of the school, not of the student. Thanks for sharing.
 
can anyone comment on LMU-DCOM's 3rd/4th year curriculum? That seems to be the weak point for most DO schools, unfortunately.
 
.
 
Last edited:
I agree. I always thought the state DO schools were the strongest. Hopefully the merger with Rowan helps. I heard that SOM was always relatively detached/neglected compared to the rest of the UMDNJ schools in North Jersey.

They have 2-3 years to solidify rotations for the new incoming class, so no doubt things will improve, at least a little bit.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
could someone please do one of these detailed analysis for pikeville KYCOM? about to be a first year and starting in about 3-4 weeks.
 
can anyone comment on LMU-DCOM's 3rd/4th year curriculum? That seems to be the weak point for most DO schools, unfortunately.

I am a recent graduate of LMU DCOM. The 3rd year rotations are about on the same line with the review of NJ above. There a couple hospitals in Memphis and Knoxville that are available as core sites that may provide adequate training that is on par with national standards in regards to medical education. However due to the limited number of openings, only people who are fortunate enough to snag one of those spots through the lottery system are able to go there. The majority of students end up at (very) small rural/community hospitals that could not be less academic. In my IM months I wrote zero notes, did zero procedures, and usually left by 1-5 o'clock. My GYN was a joke, no pelvic exams. I did assist on one c section and help deliver 2 babies. Other than that it was 9-3 standing around watching a rural doc try to get out the door. Peds was nothing but shadowing a doc in clinic, no note writing, no seeing kids in the hospital. Phych was just sitting in a clinic watching a guy write ssri's to everyone. Surgery was following around a very disinterested rural surgeon who came in at 9-10, did a couple of cases, saw a few people in the office, then went home. I rarely had any independent responsibilites in surgery (or any other core rotation for that matter).

In my entire third year, can't remember a note I wrote, or a procedure I performed, yet I paid $35k for the year. I have heard that DCOM does not pay the sites or the preceptor's, so I have no idea where that money is going (though I have an idea). When I started as a first year, they didn't have a lot of sites but I was told they were always adding more, and because it was a new school, I wasn't too worried. But in my four years, they didn't add a single core site; in fact, they lost a few.

4th year was pretty much the same. I had to schedule all my electives on my own with minimal help from the school. Despite paying $37k for tuition, there were like 2 employees dedicated to the clinical sites and they were always unavailable and unhelpful.

My fist two years at DCOM were very adequate and they provided a good education in that regard. The campus is state of the art and they seem to have a good grip on how to bring the resources together for the first two years. However, it is very obvious that the quality of clinicals at DCOM is not a priority. On top of that, they just upped their class size to over 250. They did not have enough clinical resources to educate the students when they had class sizes at 160. There is no way they will be able to even come close to having adequate clinical education for that many people. I find it irresponsible, reckless, and just plain wrong that they would do something like jack up their attendance knowing full well that they have no ability to educate everyone..

I have to say that I am thankful for what I was able to accomplish through DCOM. They gave me an opportunity to be a physician and for that I must be extremely grateful. I was able to match at the resident specialty of my choice. However, it is very obvious that you must go above and beyond and scratch and claw to get your education while at DCOM.


PS: I typed this on my phone so please excuse the mistakes.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I am a recent graduate of LMU DCOM. The 3rd year rotations are about on the same line with the review of NJ above. There a couple hospitals in Memphis and Knoxville that are available as core sites that may provide adequate training that is on par with national standards in regards to medical education. However due to the limited number of openings, only people who are fortunate enough to snag one of those spots through the lottery system are able to go there. The majority of students end up at (very) small rural/community hospitals that could not be less academic. In my IM months I wrote zero notes, did zero procedures, and usually left by 1-5 o'clock. My GYN was a joke, no pelvic exams. I did assist on one c section and help deliver 2 babies. Other than that it was 9-3 standing around watching a rural doc try to get out the door. Peds was nothing but shadowing a doc in clinic, no note writing, no seeing kids in the hospital. Phych was just sitting in a clinic watching a guy write ssri's to everyone. Surgery was following around a very disinterested rural surgeon who came in at 9-10, did a couple of cases, saw a few people in the office, then went home. I rarely had any independent responsibilites in surgery (or any other core rotation for that matter).

In my entire third year, can't remember a note I wrote, or a procedure I performed, yet I paid $35k for the year. I have heard that DCOM does not pay the sites or the preceptor's, so I have no idea where that money is going (though I have an idea). When I started as a first year, they didn't have a lot of sites but I was told they were always adding more, and because it was a new school, I wasn't too worried. But in my four years, they didn't add a single core site; in fact, they lost a few.

4th year was pretty much the same. I had to schedule all my electives on my own with minimal help from the school. Despite paying $37k for tuition, there were like 2 employees dedicated to the clinical sites and they were always unavailable and unhelpful.

My fist two years at DCOM were very adequate and they provided a good education in that regard. The campus is state of the art and they seem to have a good grip on how to bring the resources together for the first two years. However, it is very obvious that the quality of clinicals at DCOM is not a priority. On top of that, they just upped their class size to over 250. They did not have enough clinical resources to educate the students when they had class sizes at 160. There is no way they will be able to even come close to having adequate clinical education for that many people. I find it irresponsible, reckless, and just plain wrong that they would do something like jack up their attendance knowing full well that they have no ability to educate everyone..

I have to say that I am thankful for what I was able to accomplish through DCOM. They gave me an opportunity to be a physician and for that I must be extremely grateful. I was able to match at the resident specialty of my choice. However, it is very obvious that you must go above and beyond and scratch and claw to get your education while at DCOM.


PS: I typed this on my phone so please excuse the mistakes.


This is exactly what's been my concern. I'm confused as to how they're going to provide adequate clinical training for so many people when it's already been lacking for a smaller group. It's funny that you mention that most of your rotations were at a small hospital yet you got to do no notes/procedures; talking with some people, I was under the impression that working at smaller hospitals would allow more exposure/ability to be first-assist. Clearly, that's not the case. T

The situation the last 2 years is really starting to worry me. At first I thought it was a few disgruntled students complaining but the complaints are the same across the board.

If you don't mind me asking, when did you graduate and what residency did you match into. You can PM me if you feel more comfortable doing that. I'm just concerned about my future prospects being limited.

I really appreciate you taking the time out to write this review. Thank you.
 
This is exactly what's been my concern. I'm confused as to how they're going to provide adequate clinical training for so many people when it's already been lacking for a smaller group. It's funny that you mention that most of your rotations were at a small hospital yet you got to do no notes/procedures; talking with some people, I was under the impression that working at smaller hospitals would allow more exposure/ability to be first-assist. Clearly, that's not the case. T

The situation the last 2 years is really starting to worry me. At first I thought it was a few disgruntled students complaining but the complaints are the same across the board.

If you don't mind me asking, when did you graduate and what residency did you match into. You can PM me if you feel more comfortable doing that. I'm just concerned about my future prospects being limited.

I really appreciate you taking the time out to write this review. Thank you.

Just take it with a grain of salt. I'm sure there are people that managed to get a quality clinical experience. I just felt it necessary to put some info out there.
 
I decided I'd post a few other things I still have rattling around in my head about UMDNJ.

The most frustrating thing about the school is that despite its flaws, it really has all the necessary ingredients to be the best osteopathic school in the country (and likely superior to some MD campuses, too). It has its own clinical affiliates. It has a decently sized dedicated research building housing several productive faculty members (including Robert Nagele, whose Alzheimer's research has been gaining more and more attention). Despite UMDNJ's breakup, it will still have an affiliation with a large, legitimate research university (Rowan). Its admissions are highly competitive - it still has one of the highest incoming MCAT/GPA averages of any osteopathic school. The student body is, for the most part, decently bright.

And yet somehow, the school simply fails to utilize these assets to its own advantage. The rotations that happen at its own affiliates are disorganized, uneven and often lackluster, and for whatever reason the school does not (cannot? will not?) make the effort to police the rotations to ensure that everyone gets a good experience. It used to be that if you selected carefully, you could secure the right rotations to give you a fairly decent overall experience 3rd year - but it's not clear that this is the case anymore, plus there's simply not enough room available to give everyone the 'good' rotations. (I will note that these rotations were perhaps not as bad as they could have been - we did round in hospitals, we did work under residents most of the time, and we did get to write some notes and maybe occasionally do some types of procedures. It wasn't like we shadowed outpatient docs...however, we did not have nearly the level of intensity that most MD students have on their rotations.) The research unit (GSBS) has been disappointing for SOMers because many of the research faculty apparently do not like working with medical students - they would instead prefer to hire/work with exclusively foreign PhDs. While DO/PhD and DO/MS programs exist, there has been a lot of hostility towards dual-degree medical students from the GSBS faculty, and some students have been treated very badly while finishing their other degree. (Nagele is one exception to this - he eagerly works with medical students.) Needless to say, most medical students interested in bench research never get the opportunity to work with the researchers on their own campus. The relationship with UMDNJ was both a blessing and a curse - on one hand, it allowed us to ride the coattails of the UMDNJ name, but on the other hand it was obvious that SOM was the red-haired stepchild of the system. Important events and meetings rarely, if ever, occurred on the SOM campus, and daily we got barraged with emails concerning assorted nonsense going on in Newark that never applied to us. (If I ever get another 'urgent' text or email about someone randomly mugged or assaulted on the NJMS campus, I'm gonna scream.)

I sincerely hope Rowan manages to use SOM's assets more productively than UMDNJ ever did. SOM has a lot of promise...somebody just needs to step up to the plate and manage it properly.
 
Last edited:
I am a recent graduate of LMU DCOM. The 3rd year rotations are about on the same line with the review of NJ above. There a couple hospitals in Memphis and Knoxville that are available as core sites that may provide adequate training that is on par with national standards in regards to medical education. However due to the limited number of openings, only people who are fortunate enough to snag one of those spots through the lottery system are able to go there. The majority of students end up at (very) small rural/community hospitals that could not be less academic. In my IM months I wrote zero notes, did zero procedures, and usually left by 1-5 o'clock. My GYN was a joke, no pelvic exams. I did assist on one c section and help deliver 2 babies. Other than that it was 9-3 standing around watching a rural doc try to get out the door. Peds was nothing but shadowing a doc in clinic, no note writing, no seeing kids in the hospital. Phych was just sitting in a clinic watching a guy write ssri's to everyone. Surgery was following around a very disinterested rural surgeon who came in at 9-10, did a couple of cases, saw a few people in the office, then went home. I rarely had any independent responsibilites in surgery (or any other core rotation for that matter).

In my entire third year, can't remember a note I wrote, or a procedure I performed, yet I paid $35k for the year. I have heard that DCOM does not pay the sites or the preceptor's, so I have no idea where that money is going (though I have an idea). When I started as a first year, they didn't have a lot of sites but I was told they were always adding more, and because it was a new school, I wasn't too worried. But in my four years, they didn't add a single core site; in fact, they lost a few.

4th year was pretty much the same. I had to schedule all my electives on my own with minimal help from the school. Despite paying $37k for tuition, there were like 2 employees dedicated to the clinical sites and they were always unavailable and unhelpful.

My fist two years at DCOM were very adequate and they provided a good education in that regard. The campus is state of the art and they seem to have a good grip on how to bring the resources together for the first two years. However, it is very obvious that the quality of clinicals at DCOM is not a priority. On top of that, they just upped their class size to over 250. They did not have enough clinical resources to educate the students when they had class sizes at 160. There is no way they will be able to even come close to having adequate clinical education for that many people. I find it irresponsible, reckless, and just plain wrong that they would do something like jack up their attendance knowing full well that they have no ability to educate everyone..

I have to say that I am thankful for what I was able to accomplish through DCOM. They gave me an opportunity to be a physician and for that I must be extremely grateful. I was able to match at the resident specialty of my choice. However, it is very obvious that you must go above and beyond and scratch and claw to get your education while at DCOM.


PS: I typed this on my phone so please excuse the mistakes.

I am a recent graduate from DCOM too. I went to one of the rural core rotation sites and my experience was nothing like what Resident1154 described.
IM: Wrote notes, did some procedures.
Peds: Also saw inpatient peds and wrote notes.
Psych: Inpatient at a short-term facility. The hours made it a vacation, but we saw acute problems.
Ob/gyn: Got to do pelvic exams, help with deliveries, saw more than just the one C-section.
Surgery: There's still a variety of cases rurally, and my surgeon gave great ethical lessons on when to do or not do procedures and the corruption of the hospital he was in (I went someplace nearby, more rural than even my own core hospital, to rotate with this surgeon).
Family: I could have picked a better preceptor, but it was still my choice who to request.
Academics: These could have used some work, but when I did electives elsewhere I realized I had been taught well enough at my core site, because they were repeating things I'd learned.

I know for a fact that DCOM added more core sites while we were there, though some were dropped. The one in Norton, VA has an established IM residency and was a core site previously for Pikeville, so academics and call there are pretty established. The important thing is to talk to students who are already rotating at the core sites before you submit your list for the lottery.

I scheduled my own electives because I had a better idea of what I wanted and where I wanted to go. There are 300 students out on rotations x 13 rotation blocks per year = 3,900 rotations they have to set up every year. For electives with new preceptors or at new hospitals, this includes lawyers and contracts and modifications until everything is signed - it's a bigger deal than just the (inadequate) three-person rotation staff. I recommend people do themselves a favor and call places to set up rotations or set them up through the coordinator at your core site, and then just tell Jody and the others what you'll be doing, when, and who the preceptor is. It goes much easier that way.

I agree that DCOM should not have increased the class size.

Most likely, the first two years of medical school actually cost 70,000 each and the second two far less. But if you took out loans that size, you'd have huge grad plus loans generating interest all that time. It works much better to spread the tuition out over the four years.
 
I'm going to echo the call for recent LECOM-Erie reviews. Please?? I grew up in the area, so it's high on my list.
 
I am a recent graduate of LMU DCOM. The 3rd year rotations are about on the same line with the review of NJ above. There a couple hospitals in Memphis and Knoxville that are available as core sites that may provide adequate training that is on par with national standards in regards to medical education. However due to the limited number of openings, only people who are fortunate enough to snag one of those spots through the lottery system are able to go there. The majority of students end up at (very) small rural/community hospitals that could not be less academic. In my IM months I wrote zero notes, did zero procedures, and usually left by 1-5 o'clock. My GYN was a joke, no pelvic exams. I did assist on one c section and help deliver 2 babies. Other than that it was 9-3 standing around watching a rural doc try to get out the door. Peds was nothing but shadowing a doc in clinic, no note writing, no seeing kids in the hospital. Phych was just sitting in a clinic watching a guy write ssri's to everyone. Surgery was following around a very disinterested rural surgeon who came in at 9-10, did a couple of cases, saw a few people in the office, then went home. I rarely had any independent responsibilites in surgery (or any other core rotation for that matter).

In my entire third year, can't remember a note I wrote, or a procedure I performed, yet I paid $35k for the year. I have heard that DCOM does not pay the sites or the preceptor's, so I have no idea where that money is going (though I have an idea). When I started as a first year, they didn't have a lot of sites but I was told they were always adding more, and because it was a new school, I wasn't too worried. But in my four years, they didn't add a single core site; in fact, they lost a few.

4th year was pretty much the same. I had to schedule all my electives on my own with minimal help from the school. Despite paying $37k for tuition, there were like 2 employees dedicated to the clinical sites and they were always unavailable and unhelpful.

My fist two years at DCOM were very adequate and they provided a good education in that regard. The campus is state of the art and they seem to have a good grip on how to bring the resources together for the first two years. However, it is very obvious that the quality of clinicals at DCOM is not a priority. On top of that, they just upped their class size to over 250. They did not have enough clinical resources to educate the students when they had class sizes at 160. There is no way they will be able to even come close to having adequate clinical education for that many people. I find it irresponsible, reckless, and just plain wrong that they would do something like jack up their attendance knowing full well that they have no ability to educate everyone..

I have to say that I am thankful for what I was able to accomplish through DCOM. They gave me an opportunity to be a physician and for that I must be extremely grateful. I was able to match at the resident specialty of my choice. However, it is very obvious that you must go above and beyond and scratch and claw to get your education while at DCOM.


PS: I typed this on my phone so please excuse the mistakes.

I have just finished 2nd year so I can't comment on the quality of clinical education yet, but I do know they have added at least a few core sites....I am starting in Fort Smith, AR in 2 weeks, and I am actually pretty excited. They took 16 people this year, and I heard they wanted even more (apparently they are trying to start residency programs and have to prove they can teach? Obviously a lot of rumor, but if it's true I figured anywhere that has something to prove is a good place to be). I'll report back in a few months when I can comment on how this new site is but it seems to be a pretty big hospital and the person in charge has been really helpful to the core 2 students that are trying to set up selectives and electives for the fall.
 
I am a recent graduate from DCOM too. I went to one of the rural core rotation sites and my experience was nothing like what Resident1154 described.
IM: Wrote notes, did some procedures.
Peds: Also saw inpatient peds and wrote notes.
Psych: Inpatient at a short-term facility. The hours made it a vacation, but we saw acute problems.
Ob/gyn: Got to do pelvic exams, help with deliveries, saw more than just the one C-section.
Surgery: There's still a variety of cases rurally, and my surgeon gave great ethical lessons on when to do or not do procedures and the corruption of the hospital he was in (I went someplace nearby, more rural than even my own core hospital, to rotate with this surgeon).
Family: I could have picked a better preceptor, but it was still my choice who to request.
Academics: These could have used some work, but when I did electives elsewhere I realized I had been taught well enough at my core site, because they were repeating things I'd learned.

I know for a fact that DCOM added more core sites while we were there, though some were dropped. The one in Norton, VA has an established IM residency and was a core site previously for Pikeville, so academics and call there are pretty established. The important thing is to talk to students who are already rotating at the core sites before you submit your list for the lottery.

I scheduled my own electives because I had a better idea of what I wanted and where I wanted to go. There are 300 students out on rotations x 13 rotation blocks per year = 3,900 rotations they have to set up every year. For electives with new preceptors or at new hospitals, this includes lawyers and contracts and modifications until everything is signed - it's a bigger deal than just the (inadequate) three-person rotation staff. I recommend people do themselves a favor and call places to set up rotations or set them up through the coordinator at your core site, and then just tell Jody and the others what you'll be doing, when, and who the preceptor is. It goes much easier that way.

I agree that DCOM should not have increased the class size.

Most likely, the first two years of medical school actually cost 70,000 each and the second two far less. But if you took out loans that size, you'd have huge grad plus loans generating interest all that time. It works much better to spread the tuition out over the four years.

This is reassuring after seeing the most recent post. But, I realize everyone will have had different experiences.

I have just finished 2nd year so I can't comment on the quality of clinical education yet, but I do know they have added at least a few core sites....I am starting in Fort Smith, AR in 2 weeks, and I am actually pretty excited. They took 16 people this year, and I heard they wanted even more (apparently they are trying to start residency programs and have to prove they can teach? Obviously a lot of rumor, but if it's true I figured anywhere that has something to prove is a good place to be). I'll report back in a few months when I can comment on how this new site is but it seems to be a pretty big hospital and the person in charge has been really helpful to the core 2 students that are trying to set up selectives and electives for the fall.

This is good to hear that more core sites have been added. How many students are accepted into the Knoxville and Memphis sites? I don't recall a number being mentioned at my interviews.
 
A bump for usefulness!! Good luck everyone

Actually on second thought can someone move this to Pre-osteo or copy it over? It would definitely be a help for those getting acceptances!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
A bump for usefulness!! Good luck everyone

Actually on second thought can someone move this to Pre-osteo or copy it over? It would definitely be a help for those getting acceptances!

I think it's better here in Osteo, since the purpose of the thread is to elicit responses from DO students/graduates. I doubt many ever go to pre-osteo, whereas many premed people check out this forum.
 
Hey can anyone do an updated one for DMU?

Thanks so much!!
 
Can someone please update PCOM-GA and the brand new ACOM? lowly premeds need these!
Thank you!
 
[/B]

bump

ACOM - new school. Avoid new schools for a variety of reasons discussed on other threads

People dont fill out the pros and cons thread as much as they used to few years ago (back when i was a premed). Although this is just my opinion from experience, Im going to assume one reason for this is because no matter what you say about your school, some pre-med will come on and claim thats not the case or another student from that school will disagree with you thus making the review meaningless.

Every school has problems, but for some reason i've noticed med students LOVE to complain about their school to each other but than will defend their school to the death when you say something negative about it to pre-meds or students from other med schools lol (as has been my experience on SDN)
 
Curriculum:

1st year- Lecture based, we probably spent 7ish hours a day in lecture. Anatomy is aquality course taught by a well-known professor. Microbiology is pretty much non-existent andthis has hurt students come board time. Testing is done on computers with instant feedback of our scores. This can be good or bad and it is best towait till seeing the average before freaking out.

2nd year- Systems based. Here is Cecil’s and Big Robbins, good luck. Oh and there will be many moments where you are not given reading assignments and are just supposed to know what to read or read everything! Few lectures, as most of the year is done independent study. Frustrating exams and grading. Oftentimes faculty will move quizzes from one subject to another so that fewer people have tor emediate. Also, the syllabi state you must pass IM, Path, and Pharm (the 3 components of every system), but the syllabus says nothing about how each of these subjects is 1/3 of your systemgrade. So, some systems you have only about 50 total points in pharm while IM has 150, but somehow they are equal in the end. Therefore, you end up playing some crazy game at the end where you try and figure out what subject to devote more time to because each question in one subject is actually worth more than questions in other subjects. Again, this is not clearly stated in any syllabus and it took us ½ the year to figure it out. Also, it is very unclear how we were graded in clinical skills. Good luck with that one. Overall, a terribly disorganized and frustrating year compounded by the stress of upcoming boards and poor communication.


Location: Yakima, WA. The city is centrally located, so it is relatively easy to get to Seattle or White Pass to do some skiing. The town itself does not have much going on, but is large enough where you can find something to do during your free-time. Beware of the fairgrounds as that is the area of gang activity.


Cost: 43,000. Expensive and the school’s mission is to train primary care physicians. This amuses me greatly.


Faculty: Some good, some bad like any other school in the country. The truly disappointing thing, though, is that faculty does not seem receptive to feedback. Being a new school there needs to be the potential for growth and improvement. But, if student feedback is essentially ignored this limits the potential of the school. For example, our student government met with faculty regarding legitimate concerns during 2nd year. Our SGA wasn’t allowed to get a word in and was essentially lectured during this meeting and nothing was accomplished. We had continually asked to receive reading assignments on time so we knew what to study and this was a problem all year. This is basic and still we had a problem with it.

Reputation: Too new for a real reputation.
Clinical Rotations: Students scatter throughout a 5 state region. Selection for rotation sites is extremely messed up, unclear, and frustrating. This is where the biggest problem is as things are very inconsistent and the bar set very very low. See my thread on having a nurse as a preceptor in surgery. Some rotations/locations likely have good rotations, others terrible. So, it is basically a gamble. Didactics on Fridays are generally considered to be useless as oftentimes the subject has nothing to do with the specific rotation you are on so people do not pay attention and use it as social hour. Also, the school does not really communicate with students this year. Step 2 CK is around the bend and we have heard absolutely nothing about it. Not how to prepare, not when to take it, nothing. Also, we have heard essentially nothing about scheduling 4th year electives and aways. Basically, you are on your own. If you have a good regional dean, it may help, but don’t expect the school to do anything for you this year. Be ready to fork out 43k to teach yourself.
Housing: None on campus, but cheap apartments in Yakima.

Study areas: There are 2 buildings now with plans for an auditorium soon, but study space is very limited. Best to just study at home.

Social Scene: Students hang out at a bar around the corner from the school,especially after anatomy lab. Besides that there are several decent restaurants and hang-out spots in town. Not a great scene, but if you look around you should be able to find something to do.
Local Hospitals: Two main hospitals in Yakima, I do not know anything about how there 3rd year rotations are going though.
Board Prep: The school only gave us 2-4 weeks of real study time for step 1 and still tossed random assignments our way even during the last week of the semester when we should be hitting board study hard; for example, doing a poster presentation on our assigned rotation site. Also, we received conflicting information regarding how best to study for boards (100 questions a day, 50, focus on systems? This flip-flopped all year). You end up figuring it out on your own anyhow.
Specialty: No idea yet.

So here are my grades:

Curriculum: C-
Location: C+
Cost: D
Financial Aid: ??
Faculty: B-
Reputation: ??
Technology: C-
Study Space/Library: D-
Library technology/Resources: C
Rotations: D-
Social: B-
Hospitals: Completely variable so ill say a D given my situation.
Post Grad: ??

Overall Grade: D, would only really recommend if you have to stay in the pacific northwest for family and do not get into UW or this is the only school you get into.

Can anyone from PNWU give a more recent report? I just got accepted there and I'm trying to decide if I should go to my other interview (CMU which is an even newer school) or if I should wait to hear from some other schools? This is pretty discouraging...
 
I graduated a year ago, so some of the info may now be out of date and I am going off of memory (inaccuracies should be expected). I remember thinking they were helpful and I finally have some free time during intern year so here it goes:

PREPARE for my terribly written novel of a post:

1st year- Systems based. They eased us in with "anatomy immersion" for about a month doing MSK of the body and we spent about 4 hours a day at the school for dissection. It wasn't really a graded course but was just to ease you in. At this time we also started OMT, and also some clinical skills labs/patient encounters. I think the blocks schedule was: Well patient (total joke don't think anyone ever failed), MSK (needed to recall immersion from one month ago for practical), Heme, immunology/micro, cardio, lung, GI, then GU.

For 1st and 2nd year your grades were based on--- Written exam (usually 80%), and anatomy practical (usually 20%). These blocks range from 2 weeks to 6 weeks. Most blocks are 4 weeks long. We had OMT lectures weekly, and one 2 hour lab on Wed (1st years in AM, 2nd years in PM) . ATTENDENCE to all lectures with the exception of labs was optional (there were some exceptions but they were very rare). Histology lab was also optional. All lectures were voice recorded and PPT slides were posted generally within 24 hours of the lecture.
During the year we also had clinical skills. Every Wed we had either a 2 hour lab of learning/practicing on each other or a clinical encounter with mock patients/SOAP notes. Generally, as we advanced you had more "patient encounters." Twice each quarter we would have graded OMM practicals and some of the clinical skills encounters were graded via video recordings/SOAP note grades. These exams always lined up with the course exams so approximately every 6 weeks you would have a week filled with exams and no lectures. Generally the clinical skills mirrored the blocks so that they reinforced knowledge, but during 2nd year it seemed to get more disassociated. Also every Thurs and Tues we had CBL which was a small group with a preceptor (usually MD/DO but sometimes MS IV or PhD) and you would go over cases together on Tues and then volunteer some assignments relevant to the case for each person to present on Thurs. During 2nd year we used this time to teach each other high yield Step I materials more than following the cases.

2nd year- Come back after having summer off!!!!!!! (IF students had to re-mediate they did it in the summer. There was a limit to how much you could fail before being forced to do the whole year over. I don't know many details as I was lucky enough to not fail anything. To my knowledge very few people had to re-mediate.)
Block schedule: Neuro, HEENT (Last anatomy/histology practical ever), Endocrine, OB/GYN, Pediatrics, Geriatrics/palliative care, time off for boards (about 3-4 weeks I can't remember), then a "prep" for third year after step 1, where you learn how to scrub in, do IV's, put in Foleys, open crap in a sterile fashion, intubate, and reinforce clinical skills/note writing. Some of the skills were very helpful, IV's we got to practice on fancy dummies and on each other, then we had to do foleys and stuff like that in front of preceptors so they could assess technique and sterility, etc. At this time we were recertified in BLS (did it originally before starting 1st year) and get ACLS certification.

During the beginning of the year you also did a system of ranking which hospital you want to be based out of for 3rd and 4th year. A few people stay in Athens with some poor souls getting stuck in Portsmouth OH. Otherwise about 95% of the class moves to Toledo, Dayton, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland, or Sandusky. You only travel for 4th year electives if you choose to. Some computer program usually gets about 90% of people into their top 3 choices (don't remember the actually stats). You can also "couples match" this can be a friend, significant other in the class, or spouse if you are married to a classmate.

3rd year: I was in Cleveland.
All base hospitals have residency programs (basics like FP, IM, ED and some have every conceivable specialty) but they are all community based (many are affiliated with some university centers in the area). At almost all of the hospitals some DMU, KCOM, and ATSU students will be with you for the entire year. Their schedules are generally very similar. Some of them stay for 4th year and some chose to leave and be nomads for 4th year. We attended all resident lectures 4-5 days a week at 7 AM before going to our rotations in the hospital or community. At my hospital you got $15 a day to eat, so I rarely bought groceries. Everyone starts with 4 wks FM. then its mixed bag. I think you get 6 weeks of electives during third year,but generally they have to be at your base hospital (should have most things). In 3rd year everyone does 2 more weeks of FM in residency clinic, 4 wks peds, 4 wks geriatrics, 4 wks medicine, 4 wks psych, 4 wks gen surgery, 4 wks OB/GYN, 4 wks ED, and 2 wks hospice/palliative. You are allotted 10 weeks of vacation to use over the last 2 years ( 2 required at Christmas of 3rd year so 8 wks at your discretion.) Also towards the end of 3rd year you go back to Athens to take a "mock" step 2 PE. It is set up very similarly. The students from the other schools had to come down as well to pass the mock exam (I remember they were Pissed).

4th year: Most people take 2-4 weeks to study for and take step 2 during the summer. In the spring (of 3rd year) you apply to away rotation electives at places you think you want to be a resident. Most people do these away rotations from Aug-Nov. The fall/early winter is comprised of going on interviews and trying to save your vacation as much as possible. The "official" school policy is that you are allowed to miss 1 day per week of rotation to go on interviews...otherwise you need to use vacation. The problem is that vacations can only be used in weekly increments, so you cannot just take an extra day here or there. Luckily, you learn what the easy rotations are and just do those. For example did a 1 wk radiology rotation that I showed up for 1 day, same with anesthesia,etc. Most of the preceptors and residents were understanding and didn't know/care about the policy, so it was easy to "get around." I even had some residents sign me in for lectures if I was out interviewing. It just sucked that you had to sneak around like that, but it is widely practiced by students. I remember going to morning lecture to sign in, then leaving to catch a flight. Haha, good times.

The rest of the year is pretty much electives. You have to do 4 more weeks of FM, and 2 weeks of Healthcare management where you go around and learn about healthcare policy, financing, insurance, paperwork,etc. We also had to do a paper (case report only like 6-7 pages double spaced), and both 3rd and 4th year we presented a few topics at resident lectures. Most students do ICU and CCU after interviewing because they realize they will soon become interns, but otherwise the year is very chill.


Location: Years 1+2 Athens, Ohio. Appalachia at its finest. Nearest mall is about 1 hour away in Parkersburg, WV. The city itself is a strange mix of college students, Appalachian folk, "hippies", and professors. The local Walmart had the most interesting mix of people I will ever see! The campus is actually quite scenic and the terrain is kind of pretty. Hilly with good hiking opportunities, fishing, canoeing, camping, etc. The town is about 25,000 excluding students, and there isn't much around off campus. Luckily it being a decent sized university (20,000 students or so) it has a decent mix of ethnic foods and cheap bars. You are pretty isolated though. I am fairly "outdoorsy" and I was very ready to go by the end of 2nd year. Athens has all the chain fast food places and Applebees, Ruby Tuesdays, Walmart, Lowes, Movie theater, farmers market (surprisingly good), and Kroger (big/decent grocery) in the "newer" part of town and that is about it.

After that it will vary. Most Midwestern cities are the similar except Chicago. Cleveland and Columbus offer the most (I think Cincinnati also now has a site). I grew up in Ohio, so to me they have everything I could ever want in a city, but to people who grew up/live in very large coastal cities they will probably seem boring.

Cost: Was the cheapest in the state when I started (in-state), now I think Wright State University is slightly cheaper. I guess overall it is one of the cheapest schools, but still feels expensive to me. OOS students can get residency after one year.


Faculty: Most good, some bad. Clinical faculty was kind of variable but overall I liked/learned from most of them. There were certainly exceptions though (surgery). If you are interested in a competitive specialty it would be wise to have your base hospital have residents in every field. My hospital only had FM, IM, and ED. So for my surgery rotations, subspecialties I rotated with private docs (they all also taught residents). For me it was awesome because hours were generally done by 5. My ortho rotation was awesome and the group let me do a ton in surgery (actually made me not hate the OR). However, if you wanted to do something like Ortho it would suck because a letter from a PP doc isn't worth as much.

Reputation: Seems pretty well respected in Ohio. We have many students go to CCF, OSU, etc each year. I do find it funny it isn't mentioned often on this site, but I suppose it has to do with the in-state bias and contract. I would say as far as organization and support from school in clinical years we are up there with MSU and some of the very old schools. I really hate that the name is now OUHCOM instead of OUCOM, but I guess the 120 million dollar donation warranted a change.

Clinical Rotations: Talked about this above. It will vary somewhat based on your home hospital.

Housing: Athens is cheap, but is also a party school. The town is pretty old so I had to lower my standards a bit, but it wasn't too bad.

Study areas: Med school library was nice but a bit small. Also the engineering building is basically attached and had a ton of private quiet rooms. You could also use the main library. I studied almost exclusively at home though.

Social Scene: It is a fairly large undergrad campus that melds into the town. Court street is the "downtown" of Athens and is in the center of the campus. The med school building is about 0.5 miles away. There are probably 40 bars/restaurants in that area with many being co-op owned, organic, ethnic, etc. Some bars and cafes had local music, etc (nothing great). It is known as a party school so it can be pretty fun/wild, but there are some more "grown-up" places. Surprisingly, my favorite Indian restaurant is in Athens and I miss it dearly.

Local Hospitals: One tiny hospital that I rarely entered. During the first 2 years you had a few CCE's where you would basically shadow a doc a few times a quarter. They varied from educational to a waste of time. Some inpatient some in offices.

Board Prep: In the fall of 2nd year a few companies (Kaplan, Falcon, Doctors in training) buy the class lunches and try to sell their product. The class usually picks one and gets a "special" deal. The peds, geriatrics/palliative blocks in the spring of 2nd year are pretty easy so most people do the minimum for those from April until Step 1. This was a point of contention with some faculty as a few lectures 1-2 people out of 110 showed up for lecture. One faculty then didn't record his lecture..... so there was a bit of an ordeal. Honestly though you have plenty of time. Like I said I think you have about Jun 5 --> early July completely off.

Specialty: PM&R (allopathic only)

Other Comments:
The school pushes very hard for students to stay in the CORE system ("OU's" residencies) and also pushes for family medicine. I did very little/no OMM after 2nd year, and it isn't a required clinical rotation (YEAH!!!) Overall, the school seems to get its wish as a lot of my class is doing FM and staying in Ohio. It seems OU and MSU affiliated residencies comprise about 1/2 of all osteopathic residencies. So if you are interested in a competitive specialty, I do think it is advantageous to come here. You will likely be able to stay at the hospital for all of 3rd and 4th year to schmooze the residents and faculty in your prospective field.

Grades:

Curriculum: B+
Location: C
Cost: A
Financial Aid: B (Financial aid ladies were very approachable and on the ball, but our schedule was slightly different from undergrads so there were times the med school had to give out an emergency loan (no interest) to the students if needed, because the money didn't come in until the undergrads quarter started)
Faculty: B+
Reputation: A in Ohio, but ?? elsewhere (I'm going to the East Coast for residency)
Technology: B+ (Would prefer video taped lectures)
Study Space/Library: C, just because med school library was small (I studied at home)
Library technology/Resources: B+
Rotations: A, compared to most other schools it seems among the best.
Social: A+ if you still party like undergrad. I mellowed out so for me a B
Hospitals: Variable. I give mine a B+
Post Grad: A. One of the only DO schools that has more affiliated residency slots than students per year.

Overall Grade: A-. Worth looking into, but I am of course biased. I think the contract stipulates that each year of residency in Ohio counts for 1 year of the contract, and 1.5 if doing primary care. So if you stay in Ohio for residency you can get around it. However, I heard that the residency MUST be osteopathic. In addition, it seems a lot of people left Ohio that were originally OOS for residency, so perhaps there are ways out. Again, this is just hearsay but shouldn't be overlooked by OOS applicants. I also loved that in 1st and 2nd year you didn't have a test every week (usually just once every 4). It gave the class time to relax and hangout together.



Hope this helps. Sorry about the monster post and 3rd grade writing style.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Every school has problems, but for some reason i've noticed med students LOVE to complain about their school to each other but than will defend their school to the death when you say something negative about it to pre-meds or students from other med schools lol (as has been my experience on SDN)

:thumbup:

Absolutely. Very guilty of this myself. XD
 
Can anyone from PNWU give a more recent report? I just got accepted there and I'm trying to decide if I should go to my other interview (CMU which is an even newer school) or if I should wait to hear from some other schools? This is pretty discouraging...

I've met a few people from here, and while I didn't discuss the school in-depth with them, they seemed okay with it- certainly not as overwhelmingly negative as the above. Did have a classmate at Western who got to Yakima the night before her interview, had a dreadful interaction with some of the locals, and immediately drove home and canceled the interview. So there's that. =/

Go to your interviews and wait to hear from more. At the very least, attending more interviews will give you a feel for what you like or don't like in a school. Just be prepared to forfeit some deposits if it comes to that.
 
I graduated a year ago, so some of the info may now be out of date and I am going off of memory (inaccuracies should be expected). I remember thinking they were helpful and I finally have some free time during intern year so here it goes:

PREPARE for my terribly written novel of a post:

1st year- Systems based. They eased us in with "anatomy immersion" for about a month doing MSK of the body and we spent about 4 hours a day at the school for dissection. It wasn't really a graded course but was just to ease you in. At this time we also started OMT, and also some clinical skills labs/patient encounters. I think the blocks schedule was: Well patient (total joke don't think anyone ever failed), MSK (needed to recall immersion from one month ago for practical), Heme, immunology/micro, cardio, lung, GI, then GU.

For 1st and 2nd year your grades were based on--- Written exam (usually 80%), and anatomy practical (usually 20%). These blocks range from 2 weeks to 6 weeks. Most blocks are 4 weeks long. We had OMT lectures weekly, and one 2 hour lab on Wed (1st years in AM, 2nd years in PM) . ATTENDENCE to all lectures with the exception of labs was optional (there were some exceptions but they were very rare). Histology lab was also optional. All lectures were voice recorded and PPT slides were posted generally within 24 hours of the lecture.
During the year we also had clinical skills. Every Wed we had either a 2 hour lab of learning/practicing on each other or a clinical encounter with mock patients/SOAP notes. Generally, as we advanced you had more "patient encounters." Twice each quarter we would have graded OMM practicals and some of the clinical skills encounters were graded via video recordings/SOAP note grades. These exams always lined up with the course exams so approximately every 6 weeks you would have a week filled with exams and no lectures. Generally the clinical skills mirrored the blocks so that they reinforced knowledge, but during 2nd year it seemed to get more disassociated. Also every Thurs and Tues we had CBL which was a small group with a preceptor (usually MD/DO but sometimes MS IV or PhD) and you would go over cases together on Tues and then volunteer some assignments relevant to the case for each person to present on Thurs. During 2nd year we used this time to teach each other high yield Step I materials more than following the cases.

2nd year- Come back after having summer off!!!!!!! (IF students had to re-mediate they did it in the summer. There was a limit to how much you could fail before being forced to do the whole year over. I don't know many details as I was lucky enough to not fail anything. To my knowledge very few people had to re-mediate.)
Block schedule: Neuro, HEENT (Last anatomy/histology practical ever), Endocrine, OB/GYN, Pediatrics, Geriatrics/palliative care, time off for boards (about 3-4 weeks I can't remember), then a "prep" for third year after step 1, where you learn how to scrub in, do IV's, put in Foleys, open crap in a sterile fashion, intubate, and reinforce clinical skills/note writing. Some of the skills were very helpful, IV's we got to practice on fancy dummies and on each other, then we had to do foleys and stuff like that in front of preceptors so they could assess technique and sterility, etc. At this time we were recertified in BLS (did it originally before starting 1st year) and get ACLS certification.

During the beginning of the year you also did a system of ranking which hospital you want to be based out of for 3rd and 4th year. A few people stay in Athens with some poor souls getting stuck in Portsmouth OH. Otherwise about 95% of the class moves to Toledo, Dayton, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland, or Sandusky. You only travel for 4th year electives if you choose to. Some computer program usually gets about 90% of people into their top 3 choices (don't remember the actually stats). You can also "couples match" this can be a friend, significant other in the class, or spouse if you are married to a classmate.

3rd year: I was in Cleveland.
All base hospitals have residency programs (basics like FP, IM, ED and some have every conceivable specialty) but they are all community based (many are affiliated with some university centers in the area). At almost all of the hospitals some DMU, KCOM, and ATSU students will be with you for the entire year. Their schedules are generally very similar. Some of them stay for 4th year and some chose to leave and be nomads for 4th year. We attended all resident lectures 4-5 days a week at 7 AM before going to our rotations in the hospital or community. At my hospital you got $15 a day to eat, so I rarely bought groceries. Everyone starts with 4 wks FM. then its mixed bag. I think you get 6 weeks of electives during third year,but generally they have to be at your base hospital (should have most things). In 3rd year everyone does 2 more weeks of FM in residency clinic, 4 wks peds, 4 wks geriatrics, 4 wks medicine, 4 wks psych, 4 wks gen surgery, 4 wks OB/GYN, 4 wks ED, and 2 wks hospice/palliative. You are allotted 10 weeks of vacation to use over the last 2 years ( 2 required at Christmas of 3rd year so 8 wks at your discretion.) Also towards the end of 3rd year you go back to Athens to take a "mock" step 2 PE. It is set up very similarly. The students from the other schools had to come down as well to pass the mock exam (I remember they were Pissed).

4th year: Most people take 2-4 weeks to study for and take step 2 during the summer. In the spring (of 3rd year) you apply to away rotation electives at places you think you want to be a resident. Most people do these away rotations from Aug-Nov. The fall/early winter is comprised of going on interviews and trying to save your vacation as much as possible. The "official" school policy is that you are allowed to miss 1 day per week of rotation to go on interviews...otherwise you need to use vacation. The problem is that vacations can only be used in weekly increments, so you cannot just take an extra day here or there. Luckily, you learn what the easy rotations are and just do those. For example did a 1 wk radiology rotation that I showed up for 1 day, same with anesthesia,etc. Most of the preceptors and residents were understanding and didn't know/care about the policy, so it was easy to "get around." I even had some residents sign me in for lectures if I was out interviewing. It just sucked that you had to sneak around like that, but it is widely practiced by students. I remember going to morning lecture to sign in, then leaving to catch a flight. Haha, good times.

The rest of the year is pretty much electives. You have to do 4 more weeks of FM, and 2 weeks of Healthcare management where you go around and learn about healthcare policy, financing, insurance, paperwork,etc. We also had to do a paper (case report only like 6-7 pages double spaced), and both 3rd and 4th year we presented a few topics at resident lectures. Most students do ICU and CCU after interviewing because they realize they will soon become interns, but otherwise the year is very chill.


Location: Years 1+2 Athens, Ohio. Appalachia at its finest. Nearest mall is about 1 hour away in Parkersburg, WV. The city itself is a strange mix of college students, Appalachian folk, "hippies", and professors. The local Walmart had the most interesting mix of people I will ever see! The campus is actually quite scenic and the terrain is kind of pretty. Hilly with good hiking opportunities, fishing, canoeing, camping, etc. The town is about 25,000 excluding students, and there isn't much around off campus. Luckily it being a decent sized university (20,000 students or so) it has a decent mix of ethnic foods and cheap bars. You are pretty isolated though. I am fairly "outdoorsy" and I was very ready to go by the end of 2nd year. Athens has all the chain fast food places and Applebees, Ruby Tuesdays, Walmart, Lowes, Movie theater, farmers market (surprisingly good), and Kroger (big/decent grocery) in the "newer" part of town and that is about it.

After that it will vary. Most Midwestern cities are the similar except Chicago. Cleveland and Columbus offer the most (I think Cincinnati also now has a site). I grew up in Ohio, so to me they have everything I could ever want in a city, but to people who grew up/live in very large coastal cities they will probably seem boring.

Cost: Was the cheapest in the state when I started (in-state), now I think Wright State University is slightly cheaper. I guess overall it is one of the cheapest schools, but still feels expensive to me. OOS students can get residency after one year.


Faculty: Most good, some bad. Clinical faculty was kind of variable but overall I liked/learned from most of them. There were certainly exceptions though (surgery). If you are interested in a competitive specialty it would be wise to have your base hospital have residents in every field. My hospital only had FM, IM, and ED. So for my surgery rotations, subspecialties I rotated with private docs (they all also taught residents). For me it was awesome because hours were generally done by 5. My ortho rotation was awesome and the group let me do a ton in surgery (actually made me not hate the OR). However, if you wanted to do something like Ortho it would suck because a letter from a PP doc isn't worth as much.

Reputation: Seems pretty well respected in Ohio. We have many students go to CCF, OSU, etc each year. I do find it funny it isn't mentioned often on this site, but I suppose it has to do with the in-state bias and contract. I would say as far as organization and support from school in clinical years we are up there with MSU and some of the very old schools. I really hate that the name is now OUHCOM instead of OUCOM, but I guess the 120 million dollar donation warranted a change.

Clinical Rotations: Talked about this above. It will vary somewhat based on your home hospital.

Housing: Athens is cheap, but is also a party school. The town is pretty old so I had to lower my standards a bit, but it wasn't too bad.

Study areas: Med school library was nice but a bit small. Also the engineering building is basically attached and had a ton of private quiet rooms. You could also use the main library. I studied almost exclusively at home though.

Social Scene: It is a fairly large undergrad campus that melds into the town. Court street is the "downtown" of Athens and is in the center of the campus. The med school building is about 0.5 miles away. There are probably 40 bars/restaurants in that area with many being co-op owned, organic, ethnic, etc. Some bars and cafes had local music, etc (nothing great). It is known as a party school so it can be pretty fun/wild, but there are some more "grown-up" places. Surprisingly, my favorite Indian restaurant is in Athens and I miss it dearly.

Local Hospitals: One tiny hospital that I rarely entered. During the first 2 years you had a few CCE's where you would basically shadow a doc a few times a quarter. They varied from educational to a waste of time. Some inpatient some in offices.

Board Prep: In the fall of 2nd year a few companies (Kaplan, Falcon, Doctors in training) buy the class lunches and try to sell their product. The class usually picks one and gets a "special" deal. The peds, geriatrics/palliative blocks in the spring of 2nd year are pretty easy so most people do the minimum for those from April until Step 1. This was a point of contention with some faculty as a few lectures 1-2 people out of 110 showed up for lecture. One faculty then didn't record his lecture..... so there was a bit of an ordeal. Honestly though you have plenty of time. Like I said I think you have about Jun 5 --> early July completely off.

Specialty: PM&R (allopathic only)

Other Comments:
The school pushes very hard for students to stay in the CORE system ("OU's" residencies) and also pushes for family medicine. I did very little/no OMM after 2nd year, and it isn't a required clinical rotation (YEAH!!!) Overall, the school seems to get its wish as a lot of my class is doing FM and staying in Ohio. It seems OU and MSU affiliated residencies comprise about 1/2 of all osteopathic residencies. So if you are interested in a competitive specialty, I do think it is advantageous to come here. You will likely be able to stay at the hospital for all of 3rd and 4th year to schmooze the residents and faculty in your prospective field.

Grades:

Curriculum: B+
Location: C
Cost: A
Financial Aid: B (Financial aid ladies were very approachable and on the ball, but our schedule was slightly different from undergrads so there were times the med school had to give out an emergency loan (no interest) to the students if needed, because the money didn't come in until the undergrads quarter started)
Faculty: B+
Reputation: A in Ohio, but ?? elsewhere (I'm going to the East Coast for residency)
Technology: B+ (Would prefer video taped lectures)
Study Space/Library: C, just because med school library was small (I studied at home)
Library technology/Resources: B+
Rotations: A, compared to most other schools it seems among the best.
Social: A+ if you still party like undergrad. I mellowed out so for me a B
Hospitals: Variable. I give mine a B+
Post Grad: A. One of the only DO schools that has more affiliated residency slots than students per year.

Overall Grade: A-. Worth looking into, but I am of course biased. I think the contract stipulates that each year of residency in Ohio counts for 1 year of the contract, and 1.5 if doing primary care. So if you stay in Ohio for residency you can get around it. However, I heard that the residency MUST be osteopathic. In addition, it seems a lot of people left Ohio that were originally OOS for residency, so perhaps there are ways out. Again, this is just hearsay but shouldn't be overlooked by OOS applicants. I also loved that in 1st and 2nd year you didn't have a test every week (usually just once every 4). It gave the class time to relax and hangout together.



Hope this helps. Sorry about the monster post and 3rd grade writing style.

Great post!

Few small changes and additional points of view:

-All lectures are now recorded and available for viewing within minutes of the lecture ending.

-No more easy immersion, stuff counts (but is still easy in comparison to normal block material)

-A lot of stuff is not mandatory. I goto campus 2-3 days a week and the rest I am at my home studying. This means some students can commute from cities that are further away. I visit Columbus several times a month, and I know some students that commute from Columbus.

-The block examinations are written by professors that are no longer affiliated with the university. The faculty are decent in their preparation of block material, but the evaluation of what we are taught is not the best. Once you realize that its completely pass fail you learn to accept this, but at times it is disheartening to have 5% of your exam be random crap questions from old professors.

-A huge push for FM. In fact I think they deliberately don't give you much time for board prep so that the comlex scores are lower so kids go into FM (this is said with a touch of sarcasm). I wish we learned more material for the comlex, as some of our blocks are completely board irrelevant but are very FM relevant (HEENT block is 6 weeks with very little pharm/micro)

-Not as cut throat as some schools in Ohio. I have seen and encountered students at a few big university schools and they are all high strung, cut throat, competitive.

-We have very little OMM in compared to some schools. This is great for us students that won't use it, but I do wish it was taught in a more evidence-based methodology. We learn EBM, EBM, EBM but it is not applied to OMM curricula. We crack each others backs, and it feels great, but I'd rather learn 2 more hours of pharm a week, since we know the mechanisms by which pharmacology works.

-CBL/PBL. We have cased based learning in the block curriculum. It is a only 2 hours a week and I could see it being reduced. There is also a CBL type curriculum called PCC. This seems like a mixed bag as some students like it, some don't. I switched out of it because it is more self directed, which is good in that you have more "free time", but I needed more direction. They are now making PCC much harder to get out of from rumors around the block, meanwhile they advertise it as an exclusive group. Make sure you know what you are getting into when joining a PBL type curriculum.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Can anyone do an update on Touro New York? I am still deciding if I should apply there. Thanks
 
Would someone review VCOM CC?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Bump to request an updated review of RVU! Thanks in advance to the brave soul who takes time to do it!
 
Credit goes to THH. I decided this was so helpful, I would bump it. I also added dates to the posts so people will know how old the info is before clicking on the link. This should also help people know which schools need updated the most.

I also reordered some of them from newest to oldest (some were off), and fixed links so they go directly to the post page, as I had some issues viewing the "jumps" on my phone.

To give you guys an idea, the following schools need to be updated (posts are 2 yrs old or more):

ATSU-SOMA (2007), OSUCOM (2007), AZCOM (2008), GA-PCOM (2008), PSCOM (2008), PCOM (2009), TOURO-NV (2009), CCOM (2010), DMU (2010), KCUMB (2010), LMU-DCOM (2010), NYCOM (2010), OU-HCOM (2010), RVUCOM (2010), TOURO-CA (2010), UMDNJ (2010), and soon to be UNECOM (2011).



ATSU/KCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=13678730&postcount=1045 - 02/2013
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12681123&postcount=1019 - 06/2012
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12594002&postcount=1006 - 06/2012
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11872646&postcount=967 - 12/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10492174&postcount=918 - 01/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9055060&postcount=771 - 12/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6381136&postcount=203 - 03/2008

ATSU/SOMA:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5220815&postcount=27 - 06/2007

AZCOM/MWU:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6430883&postcount=207 - 03/2008

CCOM/MWU:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10286358&postcount=895 - 11/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10286464&postcount=896 - 11/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7599427&postcount=369 - 01/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5260181&postcount=45 - 06/2007
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5258169&postcount=41 - 06/2007

COMP:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=13697542&postcount=1062 - (COMP & COMP-NW) 02/2013
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6438978&postcount=211 - 03/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6177154&postcount=173 - 02/2008

DMUCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10211652&postcount=890 - 10/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6210706&postcount=178 - 02/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6125897&postcount=166 - 01/2008

GA-PCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7063643&postcount=265 - 08/2008

KCUMBCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10261815&postcount=893 - 10/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8987052&postcount=759 - 12/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8201339&postcount=490 - 05/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8164200&postcount=55 - 05/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8161159&postcount=43 - 05/2009

LECOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12593292&postcount=1004 - 06/2012
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11630901&postcount=953 - 10/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7459142&postcount=337 - 12/2008

LECOM-BR:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11104482&postcount=936 - 06/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8766690&postcount=699 - 10/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7066253&postcount=268 - 08/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7065614&postcount=267 - 08/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5215294&postcount=12 - 05/2007

LMU-DCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9279304&postcount=822 - 02/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9212778&postcount=799 - 02/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7205348&postcount=302 - 09/2008

MSUCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11950211&postcount=995 - 12/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6124538&postcount=164 - 01/2008

NSUCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=13862485&postcount=1079 - 03/2013
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11571845&postcount=945 - 09/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9318520&postcount=825 - 03/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7676710&postcount=380 - 02/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7281608&postcount=318 - 10/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6644997&postcount=229 - 05/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6464809&postcount=219 - 04/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6464809&postcount=219 - 04/2008

NYCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9934568&postcount=854 - 07/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8842190&postcount=731 - 11/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8144959&postcount=460 - 05/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7569872&postcount=357 - 01/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7115362&postcount=278 - 09/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6207706&postcount=176 - 02/2008

OSUCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5300974&postcount=101 - 06/2007

OUCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9150174&postcount=787 - 01/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6050014&postcount=152 - 01/2008

PCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7600584&postcount=370 - 01/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5223288&postcount=30 - 06/2007
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5273205&postcount=71 - 06/2007
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5210716&postcount=2 - 05/2007

PSCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=13683627&postcount=1060 - 02/2013
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7221777&postcount=304 - 10/2008

PNWUCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11909883&postcount=979 - 12/2011

RVUCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9185499&postcount=794 - 01/2010

TOURO-NY:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11880967&postcount=970 - 12/2011

TOURO-CA:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9738421&postcount=839 - 05/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7610885&postcount=371 - 01/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6986014&postcount=252 - 08/2008

TOURO-NV:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7717945&postcount=386 - 02/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7582257&postcount=359 - 01/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7017840&postcount=255 - 08/2008

UMDNJ-SOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9943651&postcount=858 - 07/2010
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6350212&postcount=196 - 03/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6246323&postcount=190 - 02/2008

UNE-COM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10572222&postcount=922 - 02/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8623506&postcount=583 - 09/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6350212&postcount=196 - 03/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6246323&postcount=190 - 02/2008
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5269932&postcount=59 - 06/2007

TCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11929337&postcount=986 - 12/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11558214&postcount=942 - 09/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6130672&postcount=169 - 01/2008

VCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12541409&postcount=1001 - 05/2012
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8164971&postcount=468 - 05/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5310597&postcount=116 - 06/2007

WCUCOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11613211&postcount=84 - 09/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11584395&postcount=72 - 09/2011

WesternU COMP-NW:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=13697542&postcount=1062 - (COMP & COMP-NW) 02/2013
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11945900&postcount=989 - 12/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11904604&postcount=976 - 12/2011
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6237800&postcount=185 - 02/2008

WVSOM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=13397307&postcount=1043 - 12/2012
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8054458&postcount=450 - 04/2009
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6519743&postcount=224 - 04/2008[/qu

.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Nycom def needs an updated one

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
What's wrong with MSUCOM? Why don't they just charge 100,000 per year and be done with it?

And I thought CCOM was expensive. Mind you, their tuition for 2013-2014 is going to be 56k.
CCOM is worse for Canadian students, because they require you to pay all 4 years up front plus ancillary fees and at an increased tuition to account for future inflation. As if i have fkn 300,000 to blow on one transaction lol.

MSUCOM gives canadian 20,000 a year off tuition, so that helps
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Would love an updated version for GA-PCOM!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Can we please let this thread die? Its ONE persons view of ONE school, then 8 months of people asking for "updated reviews" then ONE persons view about ONE school... On repeat for 25 pages.
 
Can we please let this thread die? Its ONE persons view of ONE school, then 8 months of people asking for "updated reviews" then ONE persons view about ONE school... On repeat for 25 pages.

Really? Out of all of the useless threads on sdn you want this one to die? I find it pretty useful... It's good to hear multiple perspectives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It would be good to hear multiple perspectives. In this thread there are 3-4 perspectives per school and 50-75 bumps requesting updates per school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I'm a 4th year at CCOM. If people are trying to make matriculation decisions now based on reviews I'd be happy to try to answer some questions. I don't really feel like doing a whole write up though, those look hard.
 
Top