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Pros of military medicine

Discussion in 'Military Medicine' started by Homunculus, 01.30.06.

  1. MedicalCorpse

    MedicalCorpse MilMed: It's Dead, Jim

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    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    Make sure you get chromosomal analysis prior to any intimate contact to avoid the whole "Crying Game" issue. It's a more serious problem than most people realize.

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    Not asking. Not pursuing. Not packing f***ge.
  2. 7by11thenout

    7by11thenout

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    This particular Gen Surgeon got to deployed one cycle early for a second christmas season - some suspect as a reprisal for his AF times article. He supposedly complained to the IG and they said he had no case... :)

    Also of the USUHS people I know they all want out too... Just have a longer committment but want out just as badly.

    Anyway the Pros of military medicine: #1 We treat the best patients in the World... Active Duty Retired and their families. That is the most positive thing I can say.
  3. MedicalCorpse

    MedicalCorpse MilMed: It's Dead, Jim

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    Can a confirmed Pagan for 20 years say "Amen to that"?

    Well, I just did, so...

    --
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    Born-Again Pagan since 1985
    http://www.notbob.com/pagan/
  4. i want out

    i want out Member

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    I would like to see what this coin looks like...

    Seems like a "I survived Military Medicine" coin might be something to do.

    I would certainly get a few, and hand them out to some of the physicians that I have worked with.

    i want out
  5. rookem11

    rookem11 New Member

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    Alright you guys are all bickering and while its fun to read it doesnt help me make any decisions.
    Im in my 4th year of undergrad and looking at HSPS. Also I have already been accepted. I know how most of you feel and before you attack me for considering this please listen.
    I grew up in a military home (Navy) and liked the lifestyle of moving and getting to live in new places every few years. I realize that the HSPS money is a wash when all is said and done. I have talked to an ex-AF doc from my church and several other ex-military docs about their experiences and most of them enjoyed their time but got out once their time was up. I am recently married and feel that even though the money is a wash in the long run I will be able to have children more easily and sooner with money now as opposed to later. I want to practice EM and would like your comments specifically related to that field if anyone has any. So I know there is a ton of buecracy(sp) and the system is broken but I have wanted to live the military life again and plan on doing my 4 years time(if I chose to do this) and going civilian with some experiences to talk about.

    Please post your thoughts and any helpful info you may have.
    Thanks in advance.
  6. orbitsurgMD

    orbitsurgMD Senior Member

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    My advice would be to thoroughly examine every single alternative to HPSP before signing. I don't know what your resources are, but it is doubtful the HPSP scholarship alone will give you enough to support yourself and a young family while you are working in medical school. I am sure someone somewhere has done this, but in any major city, this would be impossible without some significant outside income source.

    I'm not exactly sure of your priorities here. Is getting money for school the most important thing or is it getting back in the military or is it getting the chance to train in Emergency Medicine?

    1. Money for school: several options, HPSP is only one.
    2. Return to military: USUHS would be a more complete but more obligating return (with more money, though), Yeah, HPSP, but you are IRR until graduation except for ACDUTRA, or FAP, which gets you money during residency, at least, and helps buy down loans, advantage being no GMO crap and delay to residency, and you get a chance to go to a civilian program without having to go through a military match first. How much accrued active duty time do you have? How many years would you need until retirement?
    3. Training in EM: advantage is clearly in civilian with FAP, if you need/want the military. There are many more and busier programs on the civilian side than the few run by the military services and no delay. You have the huge advantage of hitting the ground running fully-trained, in or out of the military.
  7. island doc

    island doc Senior Member

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    rookem11: I went through HPSP with a family and I will tell you now that the HPSP stipend alone was no where near enough to make ends meet. I also had to use the GI Bill and take out student loans.

    Having been compelled to become an ER GMO for four years (against my will), I think I know a little about EM in the military also. Military emergency medicine, for the most part, does not have the volume and acuity of civilian emergency medicine. In many cases, military EM is more akin to urgent care. If you don't like trauma and critical care, then military EM is probably a better fit for you. Case in point, how many military level one trauma centers are there? Very, very few. How many high volume military ED's are there? Again very few. So, if you want to become a boarded EM working in a 24hr urgent care center, then go military EM, if not stay civilian.
  8. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel

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    I'm not attacking you....I'm just going to say that you will be foolish to go HPSP in today's military medical system....

    There is ABSOLUTELY nothing to gain other than gambling with your future career....and in today's geopolictical climate...possibly your life....

    or EVEN WORSE...your personal health....THERE IS NOTHING WORSE THAN BEING DISABLED.....DEAD IS ONE THING.....BEING A CRIPPLE WITH A FAMILY IS ANOTHER.
  9. g293

    g293

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    My thoughts as an ex non medical officer now active duty physician are to slow down and really think this through. When I signed on the dotted line for HPSP 11 years ago, the Air Force was completely different. No deployments to think of, fairly stable in size (not cutting people left and right) and the budget wasn't bad. Who know that after finishing a civilian residency 9 years later that we'd be sending people all over Iraq for 4-6 months, cutting tens of thousands of troops to pay for airplanes and the war effort, and fighting to get a conference to Des Moines paid for for for some CME?

    I assume you're in your lower 20's. You already have a HUGE road ahead of you with med school and a residency, not to mention a new marriage. Do you really need the uncertainty of a HPSP scholarship (will you get your specialty out of med school or not? Where will you do your residency? Will you have to do a GMO tour and delay your residency training by years?)

    Take out loans, look for other sources of financial aid. If you graduate med school and match in your specialty and you still have this interest in the military then take a look at what's going on then (instead of guessing now what the future miliatary will look like now) and consider FAP. At least that way you have a better idea of what you are signing up for, have your residency of choice and know what your family situation is.
  10. island doc

    island doc Senior Member

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    This is one of the finest posts I have ever seen in this forum. It lays it out the most important facts clearly, and succinctly, and provides the best possible advice to anyone considering HPSP from an experienced voice.
  11. deuist

    deuist Stealthfully Sarcastic Lifetime Donor

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    One thing you forgot to mention is that getting a civilian EM residency spot is much easier. In the Air Force at least, EM is damn near impossible to match into right out of medical school.
  12. island doc

    island doc Senior Member

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    Same can be said for Air Force EM GMO's. Besides, why would anyone want to be an EM in the AF anyway? Nothing worse than having to work in a 24hr, 365 day per year environment which is understaffed.
  13. The White Coat Investor

    The White Coat Investor AKA ActiveDutyMD Partner Organization

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  14. Homunculus

    Homunculus SDN Caveman Administrator Moderator

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    well, so much for the "pro" thread. anyone mind if i split this latest stuff off to its own thread?

    --your friendly neighborhood pruning caveman
  15. SemperJeff

    SemperJeff Fidei Defensor

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    sounds good. go for it
  16. rookem11

    rookem11 New Member

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    Thanks guys I appreciate all the advice. I have done a lot of investigating and it appears to me that the military has taken a severe downturn from what it used to be. That said, I think I will just try and stay afloat using student loans.
    Thanks again for all your input.
  17. island doc

    island doc Senior Member

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    Very wise decision.
  18. g293

    g293

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    Thanks Island Doc.That's very kind.
  19. mdm2fly

    mdm2fly

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    If I want to be a FS, is HPSP a good choice for me? Also, is it difficult to get a FS position? I don't know if I got this info correct, but on another thread it was written that you can use your GMO to undergo FS training and tours then do a residency later. If I go through this route, how much will I be earning as a FS prior to a residency?
  20. deuist

    deuist Stealthfully Sarcastic Lifetime Donor

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    HPSP is an excellent choice for becoming a flight surgeon. In fact, you'll be one of the few people who wants to go into flight medicine. You are correct in noting that a GMO tour is used for flight surgery. In the Air Force, GMO=FS, unless the physician has a condition that disqualifies him/her from flight duty. According to the pay calculator, a GMO with 4 years of total military experience (internship + tour) will make $83,192.88 (+/- depending on location).

    I'm just a med student. I'll let the current and former physicians tell you about their experience as flight surgeons.
  21. FizbanZymogen

    FizbanZymogen Guitar Hero Champion

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    I don't mean to start anything by this but am just wondering MilitaryMD where you went to medical school. The reason I ask is becuase of your off-handed remarks towards D.O.'s who are highly represented in the military. In fact mnay D.O.'s I have worked with/shadowed displayed more competence than many of the M.D.'s I am not trying to start a degree war here, I am just saying that both degrees make you a physician but what you do with your degree determines whether you will be a good one.
  22. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel

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    Looks like you're trolling:

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=4772958&postcount=20

    Same thing can be said for DO schools.

  23. USAFdoc

    USAFdoc exUSAFdoc

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    there are good MD docs, and good DO docs. The letters after your name do not guarantee anything except you passed your tests.

    in general MDs score(d) better on tests but that is NOT a guarentee that they score better in actual patient care.

    this is not a useful argument for this site.:sleep:
  24. FizbanZymogen

    FizbanZymogen Guitar Hero Champion

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    Not trolling, just want an honest answer about why you feel the way you do and said the things you said against D.O.'s

    Next, that link you posted was taken out of context and must be read in line with the question that was being asked on that forum. This sheds a lot of light on you and your links/posts and motivation. I must now evaluate your other comments with this same lense. You are distorting things here.

    Oh and I forgot USAFdoc, you're the only one who knows what is and isn't useful for this site. After all, everything you have submitted has been a gift from God.

    peace
  25. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel

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    uhh...ok....if you say so.
  26. USAFdoc

    USAFdoc exUSAFdoc

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    If you think debating who makes the better doc (an MD or a DO) is a worthy topic, go for it. I think it serves NO PURPOSE (but would be glad to hear your response on what purpose it does serve). You seem a little touchy on this subject.............:idea:
  27. FizbanZymogen

    FizbanZymogen Guitar Hero Champion

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    I wasn't the one who started the debate. I just asked why MilitaryMD DID. I have equal respect for MD and DO's as long as they act competently and professionally. When someone bashes DO's it shows me that they are uniformed or biased. Either way it demonstartes immaturity.
  28. FizbanZymogen

    FizbanZymogen Guitar Hero Champion

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    If that's your best response to the honest question I posed than you really are exactly the type of person I thought.
  29. HumptyDumptyMil

    HumptyDumptyMil Almost done...

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    So what exactly did he say?
    I wanted to become a DO from the beginning, but it's obvious amongst some of my classmates that they can care less about becoming a DO, and that a good portion of DO students came to a DO school b/c they were not accepted to a MD school. Does that mean they will be horrible doctors in the end? maybe, maybe not.
  30. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel

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    Gosh, I miss the days when I had to teach uppity medical students......wait no....you're not even a medical student....you a D.O. student
  31. FizbanZymogen

    FizbanZymogen Guitar Hero Champion

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    actually I will be attending USUHS this fall. Wrong again.
  32. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel

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    The only thing wrong here is your decision to attend USUHS.....and you won't know this until round the year 2014 or 2015 when I retire.
  33. bobbyseal

    bobbyseal Boat boy

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    see below
  34. bobbyseal

    bobbyseal Boat boy

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    Nice one.
  35. HumptyDumptyMil

    HumptyDumptyMil Almost done...

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    I hope you were just being sarcastic:thumbdown:
  36. Homunculus

    Homunculus SDN Caveman Administrator Moderator

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    that's enough. go to your corners and don't come back until you decide to be nice to each other. :p

    the do/md thing is beyond being beaten to death. other forums deal with it regularly and i don't want it infesting here. give it a rest :D thanks.

    --your friendly neighborhood parental caveman
  37. Tired

    Tired Still winning.

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    Ah, the good old SDN rules:

    Rule #1: All differences in opinion shall be immediately settled by determining who is higher on the med ed food chain.

    Rule #2: All med students shall be beat over the head regularly for being med students.

    Rule #3: Pre-meds and DO students aren't actually people.
  38. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel

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    Actually, those are not SDN rules....the hierarchy that exists in medicine ....exists everywhere else.....especially in business...which the "practice of medicine" IS.

    You can accept it and thrive....OR....you can whine about it...and lose in the game.....

    I suspect I know what your strategy will be.
  39. Tired

    Tired Still winning.

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    I suppose this is my cue to fawn all over the all-knowing attending: "Yes Sir, I would LOVE to pick up your dry-cleaning for you . . . "
  40. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel

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    You mean you don't already.
  41. georgia_md

    georgia_md yo

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    Once is a while, we get a true American patriot post something in this forum. Thank you for sharing!
  42. georgia_md

    georgia_md yo

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    D.O students are medical students dumbass. You cant be serious right?
  43. Re3iRtH

    Re3iRtH Member

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    After reading the first two pages of this thread, I think I'm leaning
    towards not attending USUHS this fall. Before reading this thread,
    I wanted to be a physician in the military. Now, I feel like I won't
    get the case volume that I seek if I will be going into a specialized
    area.

    I applied to medical school because I was looking forward to working
    90+ hours as a resident. Now it sounds like I will spend my time
    hitting on married nurses and complaining about the military. I think
    I cant rely on the Iraq war being over and the system being restored
    to the "good old times".

    Its hard to know how seriously to take this depressing advice on
    an internet forum, though.
  44. DiveMD

    DiveMD Giggity giggity!!!

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    Well...then join and walk the walk. See you in a few years posting on this forum.;)
  45. georgia_md

    georgia_md yo

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    Who looks forwards to working towards 90+ hours? Anyways, on July 1, 2003 , the ACGME limited the work week to 80 hours for all accredited residency programs.
  46. finnyel

    finnyel

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    well, at least it is largely the same folks here with the same story over and over again. To anyone looking to be involved in military medicine be sure you get more sources than just here. This forum is the voice of a few loud unhappy souls - regardless of the topic string it is the same people. I'm sorry your worlds are so awful, I can only hope mine will more closely match the folks I met first hand who didn't act nearly as miserable.
  47. USAFdoc

    USAFdoc exUSAFdoc

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    1. yes, it is the largely the same people. As opposed to completely new people all the time? :thumbdown: One thing is absolutely consistent either on this site or in the milmed clinics; docs know there is a problem and are voicing it. Students and residents don't know this because they have not "lived it" yet.
    2. About 1.2 million people:) , including myself, have already recommended that those contemplating a stint with milmed contact lots of people outside this site. Best would be those people doing the job you might be doing when you first become a doc (that would NOT include a recruiter, residency doc, or admin type of doc).
    3.I would like to see a description of those docs you met that appeared to like milmed. Odds are they are residency instructors, admin or similar. Odds are they are not FP docs seeing 25+ pts day in a regular clinic (outside of the USAF Academy).
    4. Odds are you are a resident or med student who feels JUST like I did when I was a resident or med student. I certainly got the "wake up call" when I arrived at my first base and discovered milmed was trashed. :eek: Hopefully you end up somewhere not as "trashy", but those places are few and far between.
  48. bibio7

    bibio7

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    Hi there, you have made a lot of comments in this forum and I'm glad you have a few positive things to say about the Military Health System. I would like to hear more about how you think the Military Health System continually lets its people down and endanger their lives. In fact, not only would I like to hear you opinion, I would like to hear facts and even possibly bring it to the attention of some Military Health System senior leaders. Hope to hear from you soon.
  49. bibio7

    bibio7

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    Actually, I tend to agree with Finnyel. People ought to get information from different sources to be adequately advised. People who have good news hardly share their stories, so bad and negative news move faster. This is just like channel 7 and all other media - - they thrive on negative news. The Military System has some flaws, but damn, there are more good than bad happening and there are great stories that I know of personally, that have been good. They are all in the same system.
  50. orbitsurgMD

    orbitsurgMD Senior Member

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    So just who are you that you think yourself able to just run your information straight to the "Military System Leaders?"

    (Are they that much in the dark?)

    Could I venture that 1. you are not a doctor and 2. you have never practiced in a military medical facility?

    Are you a recruiter? Are you some kind of public relations person? A cheerleader? This site has plenty of stuff; you resurrected a year-dead thread right here, surely you must have read some of the thousands of other posts.
    Are you really expecting posters to redish just for you? Tell, please, why we should.

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