Protocol within OR

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Creflo

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So I work with a certain CRNA that tends to conduct discussions in the room with the other staff in the room while I am operating. It's kind of distracting, but I haven't said anything. Then recently he called me by my first name, at a time when two other crna's were in the room. I think he was trying to show off, as everyone else calls surgeons by "doctor." My dealings with him have been strictly at work and minimal. Is this pretty typical and something that should be blown off, or are these warning signs of lack of control in the operating room that could result in a danger to patient safety down the road? Thanks for any responses.

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Is there a doc supervising him? If so, I would mention it to him. Otherwise, your completely in your right to tell him to keep it down.
 
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This is a typical MURSE who thinks that he is equal to physicians since he now can intubate!
We deal with those creatures daily and they can be very annoying.
 
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This is a typical MURSE who thinks that he is equal to physicians since he now can intubate!
We deal with those creatures daily and they can be very annoying.
It's also a two-way street. If other surgeons are used to addressing CRNAs as they would other physicians, they will get that same sense of equality. I find it interesting when surgeons will speak to me, another physician (albeit a resident), with disdain, but will be happy go-lucky with the CRNAs. Familiarity has something to do with it, but you do get a sense of who they prefer.
 
So I work with a certain CRNA that tends to conduct discussions in the room with the other staff in the room while I am operating. It's kind of distracting, but I haven't said anything.

If you are getting distracted...as a patient, I would hope that you would turn to the parrot in the room and kindly ask that he shut it.

Good luck, doc! :)

P.S: Sometimes people are just arrogant a-holes and sometimes others just do not realize they are being disrespectful because they do not know where you stand. Speak up on your preferences sooner than later.
 
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It doesn't matter who you are, attending surgeon or "merely" a resident, nurse, or surgical tech... if you are performing patient care and something in the room is distracting you from being able to give your best performance for that patient, you are absolutely within your rights to politely, professionally, request that the distraction cease.

"I need to focus on what I am doing and it would really help if extraneous conversations could be kept to a minimum. I appreciate your help in this. I want to do what is best for our patient."

As long as you keep the focus on the patient, as long as that really is the impulse behind your request, no one has any ground to stand on in arguing the point with you. Internalize that. Those who know how to speak in terms of patient first find that they wield much more power than those who talk about themselves.

As for referring to you by your first name... Some surgeons prefer that, while others prefer their title. Request what you want. Again, professionally, courteously, but firmly. You have every right to be addressed in the way that you prefer. If you know how to insist upon being shown respect without being a jerk about it, you won't have those problems you are concerned about, going forward. Even in ORs with malignant cultures, you decide how you will be treated by what you are willing to tolerate. Always be kind, never retaliate, rise above any pettiness that might be shown toward you, and you will come out ahead every time
 
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So I work with a certain CRNA that tends to conduct discussions in the room with the other staff in the room while I am operating. It's kind of distracting, but I haven't said anything. Then recently he called me by my first name, at a time when two other crna's were in the room. I think he was trying to show off, as everyone else calls surgeons by "doctor." My dealings with him have been strictly at work and minimal. Is this pretty typical and something that should be blown off, or are these warning signs of lack of control in the operating room that could result in a danger to patient safety down the road? Thanks for any responses.
No - he wasn't showing off.
He called you by the first name because NOW all of us are equal.
How do they call you when you go for a doctor appointment?
First name?
LOL
 
So I work with a certain CRNA that tends to conduct discussions in the room with the other staff in the room while I am operating. It's kind of distracting, but I haven't said anything. Then recently he called me by my first name, at a time when two other crna's were in the room. I think he was trying to show off, as everyone else calls surgeons by "doctor." My dealings with him have been strictly at work and minimal. Is this pretty typical and something that should be blown off, or are these warning signs of lack of control in the operating room that could result in a danger to patient safety down the road? Thanks for any responses.
Are podiatrists MD's?
 
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Are podiatrists MD's?

Nope. They are doctors, of podiatric medicine. (DPM)

Not all doctors, or even all surgeons, are MDs. Of course there are DOs, and also DPMs, DDS/DMDs, etc. can also perform various surgeries appropriate to their professions/specialties.
 
So I work with a certain CRNA that tends to conduct discussions in the room with the other staff in the room while I am operating. It's kind of distracting, but I haven't said anything. Then recently he called me by my first name, at a time when two other crna's were in the room. I think he was trying to show off, as everyone else calls surgeons by "doctor." My dealings with him have been strictly at work and minimal. Is this pretty typical and something that should be blown off, or are these warning signs of lack of control in the operating room that could result in a danger to patient safety down the road? Thanks for any responses.

Anyone working in the OR (RN/Scrub/Surgeon/Anesthesia) is entitled to silence when focusing on patient care.

Anytime the noise level becomes a distraction, I believe it is well within your rights and the correct thing to do for the patient, to ask for non-work-related discussions to cease at that moment.

It could be a simple non-recognition that you prefer less conversations going on in the OR. In a similar fashion some surgeons don't like music while they're operating. I've been in OR's where the combination of loud music and conversations is like being in a bad club.

As far as calling you by your first name, if it bugs you, feel free to discuss that in private with the CRNA. I wouldn't go to a supervisor for something like that; It would probably cause more misunderstanding coming from a third party and be damaging to the relationship.

Good luck.
 
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I am friendly enough with some of the surgeons at my hospital that we converse on a first name basis, others not so much. Clearly this person thinks you are the former, but if you are really uncomfortable with it (which seems kinda overblown) then speak to them privately sometime. If you want them to shut up in the OR, then by all means tell them to.
 
I call the chief of surgery by his first name. But we have a good professional relationship and in the setting of a patient or their family, I address him as Dr. X and he refers to me as Dr. Destriero. The nurses never call him by his first name, and they probably shouldn't. They're about 1/2 and 1/2 with me. I don't care, as long as the patient is not awake or the family isn't there.
As for the noise, just ask to "please keep the extraneous conversation to a minimum." I'd be surprised if you have to ask more than twice. If you do, that's when it's time for a tête-à-tête.
 
Nope. They are doctors, of podiatric medicine. (DPM)

Not all doctors, or even all surgeons, are MDs. Of course there are DOs, and also DPMs, DDS/DMDs, etc. can also perform various surgeries appropriate to their professions/specialties.

There's a difference between a doctor and a "doctor"
 
And there are doctors of physical therapy, doctors of pharmacy, and now, doctors of nurse practitionering!!
 
Maybe they will start giving out 'doctor of CRNA' in the future?

They are already doing it. At my school they are now crna dnp candidates. I'm not sure what the justification is because nothing has changed in their curriculum whatsoever but it's just another step in the dilution of the term doctor.
 
All the kinds of doctors I named are capable of performing surgery, under their own license and scope of practice. An oral surgeon who is a dentist, a foot surgeon who is a podiatrist, etc. are absolutely entitled to be called by the title Dr.

That is an entirely separate issue from nurses asking to be called Dr, and I'm not really sure why that tired old horse needed to be beaten again, since it isn't relevant to the OP's concern.
 
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Well maybe that's why the OP wasn't call Dr ... just a hunch

This is bush league dhb. He's still the surgeon in the room and the crna should call him dr if he prefers it. No need to troll
 
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All the kinds of doctors I named are capable of performing surgery, under their own license and scope of practice. An oral surgeon who is a dentist, a foot surgeon who is a podiatrist, etc. are absolutely entitled to be called by the title Dr.

That is an entirely separate issue from nurses asking to be called Dr, and I'm not really sure why that tired old horse needed to be beaten again, since it isn't relevant to the OP's concern.

If you don't see how mid level attitudes towards doctors is related to their degree creep and how it relates to how this crna is treating the podiatrist I really don't know what to tell you.
 
I don't think dhb meant that they didn't rate being referred to as Doctor, but that the nurse may think that they aren't "real" doctors/surgeons and may be why he/she called him by his first name. It's probably just that she calls all the surgeons by their first name and the OP doesn't see that as he's not often in the OR with her like all the others are several times a month over years.
And dozit misunderstood the post above. The CRNA is the mid level in question.
 
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This could be a sign of a crna with an ego or nothing at all. Crnas that overestimate their skill/knowledge are certainly dangerous. They tend to be cavalier and don't ask for help early enough. Express your concerns with the crna's anesthesiologist. If things aren't fixed you can request not to work with that crna.
 
This is bush league dhb. He's still the surgeon in the room and the crna should call him dr if he prefers it. No need to troll
Ok so a podiatrist is not an MD but is a surgeon so he should be called Dr if he prefers it? Makes sense :eyebrow:
 
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Ok so a podiatrist is not an MD but is a surgeon so he should be called Dr if he prefers it? Makes sense :eyebrow:

If I remember correctly you're not from the USA so you should read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podiatrist#Education_and_training

"Worldwide, in many countries the term podiatrist refers to allied health professionals who specialize in the treatment of the lower extremity, particularly the foot. Podiatrists in these countries are specialists in the diagnosis and treatment of foot pathology, but not through surgical means. In some circumstances these practitioners will further specialise and, following further training, perform reconstructive foot and ankle surgery.

In contrast, American podiatrists who hold a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine (D.P.M.) complete surgical residencies, and thus all practitioners are trained in surgical treatments of the foot and ankle.[2] Though the titlechiropodist was previously used in the United States to designate what is now known as a podiatrist, it is now considered to be an antiquated and etymologically incorrect term. Although podiatrists worldwide do not attend traditional medical school, in many countries such as the United States, United Kingdom, Spain and Australia they are granted privileges to perform surgical procedures of the foot and ankle."
 
Thanks for all the replies, I did not mention in my original post that there is indeed some background and normally I would not mind if someone called me by my first name. The crna who called my first name came into the room with the original case crna who was returning from lunch break, so at the time there were 3 of them in the room. The three of them chatted a bit, then on his way out he said "see ya (first name)" it was pretty obvious he was showing off to his buddy crna's. I asked the tech if he usually calls surgeons by first name and she said no. Added to this, the crna who had been relieved had a history of taking verbal shots at me in the OR (when I was brand new) and I once complained to the anesthesia department head. The original crna has calmed down, but I feel like it has been a hot locker room topic and I am seeing the retaliatory aftereffects of making my original complaint now. So now I'm not sure whether to let it go and ignore the distractions or if I should write a letter and take it up the chain. I'm getting good surgical outcomes and can deal with the pettiness and really don't want to take the time and energy to police these childish antics, but at the same time I'm concerned it won't stop unless I complain more formally. I have audio recordings of most everything, but am unsure if this is legal so haven't mentioned them. I also am not sure if I would get into legal trouble for slandering crna's to their boss.
 
Squash him like the bug that he is. Blatant disrespect is unacceptable, and it sounds like a pattern. He's getting paid because you're bringing work to the OR. There are a few surgeons where I work that request (require) minimal distracting conversation, nothing wrong with that, just be consistent.
It might be easier to talk to the attending anesthesiologist responsible for your room. It's always easier to try to take care of it at the lowest level, but it sounds like it's beyond that now. Requesting not to work with that person with a formal complaint after asking to keep the noise down, etc. would be the next step. That makes a statement, and causes scheduling headaches. Maybe they're looking for an excuse to let him go. We don't tolerate disruptive CRNAs at all. We have a good gig, good pay, etc. our way or the highway.
 
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I'm just wondering if the OP doesn't have a chip on his shoulder? Just wondering.

Using the first name in front of pts is one thing but in the OR when pts are unconscious I don't see that it is as important. At least not when we work day in and day out together.

The OP has admittedly had issues with more than one crna. Could he be demanding more than others in their environment?
 
Why not talk to the MURSE directly and put it in as simple terms as possible, for example: " Please when you talk to me address me as Doctor, Thank you!" and after that if he says anything stupid talk to his boss, very simple.
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Why not talk to the MURSE directly and put it in as simple terms as possible, for example: " Please when you talk to me address me as Doctor, Thank you!" and after that if he says anything stupid talk to his boss, very simple.
.
What would you say if he said this to you?
 
I think it took about 10 - 15 post before this thread took a left turn....

To OP, you have the right to tell them to be quite. When I'm concentrating on a difficult procedure and the surgeon wants to come in and be chatty, I kindly ask him to wait until I've finish or tell him I'm having some difficulty and can he keep it down. If said in a respectful manner then just about anyone will oblige, even the biggest prick in the hospital. Now you're the surgeon and in the driver's seat so you can play it how you want, but on a board full of anesthesiologist, we tend to want to work for and will bend over backwards for the person who isn't a prick, whether it's to us or the CRNAs we supervise.
 
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