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So, because Bellows and I agreed upon it (though I haven't seen him around lately!!!) I am giving an update on my MSW experience.
I see quite a few people ask the MSW vs MA/MS question ad nauseum, and I thought it might be beneficial to add some insights now that I've had a semester of my grad program (MSW) under my belt.
First off, I'll start with the advice that it is really important to have an idea of what population you want to work with before you you decide what programs to look into. I wanted to work with Military/Vets and Elderly so the only option for me to bill Medicare is LCSW and thus necessitating the MSW. You can work with Tricare if you go to a CACREP accredited MA/MS program. The CACREP part becomes mandatory as of 2015. However, they do also accept the LCSW as an independent licensure. Secondly, it is really important that you understand the atmosphere and licensure laws in YOUR state. Some states highly favor and have a well-established route for the LMHC or LPC, while others (like mine) have very poor standards for one vs. the other. Also, in the military community the LCSW is really well established. Again, not that I think this is justified, but it is. It is very hard for LPC, LMFT to get a foothold. They are gaining ground, but I'm not confident they will be established in the military community in time for me to benefit from it. The above is not new information, but I thought I'd just reiterate it here in case someone missed it.
Now on to my personal n=1 story! Your mileage may vary depending on the university you attend. However, my school is a run of the mill public university. It is not on anyone's national radar as a stellar school, but is well respected within my state.
Surprises:
From reading a lot of posters here, and just from reading the general fears of people considering both types of degrees, I was worried that the MSW program would not be rigorous. I'd read that some clinicians felt that MSW's didn't have a basic grasp of research and/or evidence based practices. Perhaps this is a complaint of master's level clinicians in general and not just MSW graduates. I was very pleased to find this was not the case for my program. We are being taught to evaluate research, for example what makes up a solid RCT vs a poor research design. We had sections in multiple classes about evidence based practices and how to determine for ourselves what is an evidence based practice is in practice. We also discussed how to apply that to a real world setting. In our research class we are being taught how to evaluate research articles as well as working on our own projects. To be very honest, the research class is a little "fluffier" than I have experienced before, I am not sure if this is due to program differences or individual professor differences.
We write. A lot. Tons. Always papers. From the way some commenters have discussed the poor quality of MSW grads, I'd have thought we did little to no writing. Because of my undergrad thesis experience, I don't find the amount of writing too outrageous. I mean any paper is easy in comparison to running your own experiment and writing about it APA journal style. I did ask members of my undergrad who also completed a thesis how they felt about their programs, and they felt the same as I did. They are in psych related MA/MS grad programs -- I/O and school psych. My psych friends from undergrad who did not complete a thesis also happened to go on to mental health counseling programs. They are aghast at the amount of writing I have to do.
Pretty much expected this:
There is a pretty heavy handed liberal slant in a lot of our books/instruction. I want to be careful here how I describe this. It is not that we are taught un-true statements or false research, but that there is liberal commentary on everything.
Things I don't like:
I feel like our first year is a repeat of some of the work I did in my psych undergrad. However, the 2 year MSW (for graduates of any program other than an BSW) takes a lot of people from varied backgrounds. I think much more so than do psych MA/MS programs (citation needed heh). Some of my friends who went on to psych programs also feel this way, so this may just be the way it is. Too many variations (at the MS/MA and BS/BA level) to know for sure.
Things I appreciate:
I have been able to participate in several extra-curricular programs that blow my mind. One is an interdisciplinary team of students practicing together in a local clinic. The team experience has been the highlight of my time in grad school so far. We attended lectures and team building exercises for the first semester and this semester we’ve been working at a local clinic as a team of providers. The team I’m on has been working very well together. The teams are comprised of at least 10 different providers. It’s been eye opening and educational in ways I am failing to describe.
Social work has a strong parent organization. They have a strong lobby. It is also sort of interesting to be labeled a “profession.” It comes with recognition by other professions that I was unaware of. I mean, we may be the red-headed stepchild of professions, but we are still viewed as profession. I’m doing a poor job describing this, but I had no idea this concept carries weight in some arenas. Maybe this should go under surprises! Not that I totally agree with this attitude, but it has been useful.
I received several stipends and I’ve been paying about a ¼ of my cost of tuition out of pocket. I was sad when I didn’t get a GRA position, but with the 12 hours of class + 18 hours of practicum this year, I’m happy to pay the quarter of my tuition in exchange for the free time. I can’t imagine working another 20 hours on top of what I have now. Some of those in my cohort do it. I know my limits and I would be a mess.
There are several things I’m forgetting to incorporate, but I’m sure this is too long as it is. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask here or PM me.
One last thing, any negative comment about MSW programs in these forums, I have probably also heard about counseling programs in my metro area. This is why I think it’s really not about the degree as much as it is about where you go to school and the climate there. I do want to mention that I have discovered counseling degrees aren’t completely junk over the whole state, the other state university has a strong CACREP accredited counseling program and a strong Clinical psych program. Those degrees are well respected in that metro area. Well the clinical psych PhD is well respected over the whole state, but that’s a different level of care and a different scope of practice. No PsyD programs in my state and not a whole lot of people know what they are.
Okay, I’m stopping now. If you read this far, I hope it was worth it!
I see quite a few people ask the MSW vs MA/MS question ad nauseum, and I thought it might be beneficial to add some insights now that I've had a semester of my grad program (MSW) under my belt.
First off, I'll start with the advice that it is really important to have an idea of what population you want to work with before you you decide what programs to look into. I wanted to work with Military/Vets and Elderly so the only option for me to bill Medicare is LCSW and thus necessitating the MSW. You can work with Tricare if you go to a CACREP accredited MA/MS program. The CACREP part becomes mandatory as of 2015. However, they do also accept the LCSW as an independent licensure. Secondly, it is really important that you understand the atmosphere and licensure laws in YOUR state. Some states highly favor and have a well-established route for the LMHC or LPC, while others (like mine) have very poor standards for one vs. the other. Also, in the military community the LCSW is really well established. Again, not that I think this is justified, but it is. It is very hard for LPC, LMFT to get a foothold. They are gaining ground, but I'm not confident they will be established in the military community in time for me to benefit from it. The above is not new information, but I thought I'd just reiterate it here in case someone missed it.
Now on to my personal n=1 story! Your mileage may vary depending on the university you attend. However, my school is a run of the mill public university. It is not on anyone's national radar as a stellar school, but is well respected within my state.
Surprises:
From reading a lot of posters here, and just from reading the general fears of people considering both types of degrees, I was worried that the MSW program would not be rigorous. I'd read that some clinicians felt that MSW's didn't have a basic grasp of research and/or evidence based practices. Perhaps this is a complaint of master's level clinicians in general and not just MSW graduates. I was very pleased to find this was not the case for my program. We are being taught to evaluate research, for example what makes up a solid RCT vs a poor research design. We had sections in multiple classes about evidence based practices and how to determine for ourselves what is an evidence based practice is in practice. We also discussed how to apply that to a real world setting. In our research class we are being taught how to evaluate research articles as well as working on our own projects. To be very honest, the research class is a little "fluffier" than I have experienced before, I am not sure if this is due to program differences or individual professor differences.
We write. A lot. Tons. Always papers. From the way some commenters have discussed the poor quality of MSW grads, I'd have thought we did little to no writing. Because of my undergrad thesis experience, I don't find the amount of writing too outrageous. I mean any paper is easy in comparison to running your own experiment and writing about it APA journal style. I did ask members of my undergrad who also completed a thesis how they felt about their programs, and they felt the same as I did. They are in psych related MA/MS grad programs -- I/O and school psych. My psych friends from undergrad who did not complete a thesis also happened to go on to mental health counseling programs. They are aghast at the amount of writing I have to do.
Pretty much expected this:
There is a pretty heavy handed liberal slant in a lot of our books/instruction. I want to be careful here how I describe this. It is not that we are taught un-true statements or false research, but that there is liberal commentary on everything.
Things I don't like:
I feel like our first year is a repeat of some of the work I did in my psych undergrad. However, the 2 year MSW (for graduates of any program other than an BSW) takes a lot of people from varied backgrounds. I think much more so than do psych MA/MS programs (citation needed heh). Some of my friends who went on to psych programs also feel this way, so this may just be the way it is. Too many variations (at the MS/MA and BS/BA level) to know for sure.
Things I appreciate:
I have been able to participate in several extra-curricular programs that blow my mind. One is an interdisciplinary team of students practicing together in a local clinic. The team experience has been the highlight of my time in grad school so far. We attended lectures and team building exercises for the first semester and this semester we’ve been working at a local clinic as a team of providers. The team I’m on has been working very well together. The teams are comprised of at least 10 different providers. It’s been eye opening and educational in ways I am failing to describe.
Social work has a strong parent organization. They have a strong lobby. It is also sort of interesting to be labeled a “profession.” It comes with recognition by other professions that I was unaware of. I mean, we may be the red-headed stepchild of professions, but we are still viewed as profession. I’m doing a poor job describing this, but I had no idea this concept carries weight in some arenas. Maybe this should go under surprises! Not that I totally agree with this attitude, but it has been useful.
I received several stipends and I’ve been paying about a ¼ of my cost of tuition out of pocket. I was sad when I didn’t get a GRA position, but with the 12 hours of class + 18 hours of practicum this year, I’m happy to pay the quarter of my tuition in exchange for the free time. I can’t imagine working another 20 hours on top of what I have now. Some of those in my cohort do it. I know my limits and I would be a mess.
There are several things I’m forgetting to incorporate, but I’m sure this is too long as it is. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask here or PM me.
One last thing, any negative comment about MSW programs in these forums, I have probably also heard about counseling programs in my metro area. This is why I think it’s really not about the degree as much as it is about where you go to school and the climate there. I do want to mention that I have discovered counseling degrees aren’t completely junk over the whole state, the other state university has a strong CACREP accredited counseling program and a strong Clinical psych program. Those degrees are well respected in that metro area. Well the clinical psych PhD is well respected over the whole state, but that’s a different level of care and a different scope of practice. No PsyD programs in my state and not a whole lot of people know what they are.
Okay, I’m stopping now. If you read this far, I hope it was worth it!
