Psychiatrist Salary

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MortellarPreMed

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Not trying to start a war or troll, just an honest curious question...what does the salary of a psychiatrist look like through the expereinces of physicians and residents on here? How does it compare to a neurologist salary? Again, i'm not all about the money but i am curious as I am hearing many different figures on the income.

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Not trying to start a war or troll, just an honest curious question...what does the salary of a psychiatrist look like through the expereinces of physicians and residents on here? How does it compare to a neurologist salary? Again, i'm not all about the money but i am curious as I am hearing many different figures on the income.

Everything you want to know is only a couple keystrokes away:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/search.php
 
Not trying to start a war or troll, just an honest curious question...what does the salary of a psychiatrist look like through the expereinces of physicians and residents on here? How does it compare to a neurologist salary? Again, i'm not all about the money but i am curious as I am hearing many different figures on the income.

there is a much higher income potential in neurology.....more procedures, more icu work.
 
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there is a much higher income potential in neurology.....more procedures, more icu work.

I like how you downplay the field. The less people that realize how amazing psych is - the less quality competition we will face.

OP - psych faculty average $1,000 per year or less. Run!! :)
 
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I like how you downplay the field. The less people that realize how amazing psych is - the less quality competition we will face.

OP - psych faculty average $1,000 per year or less. Run!! :)

it's not 'downplaying' the field. It's a great field. The person asks a question about money. I'd rather be a psychiatrist for less money than a neurologist.

Also note that some neuro jobs dont pay well either. General academic neuro has a starting salary that is pretty much in line with psych(150-160)....

most medical students lack of interest in psych has nothing at all to do with them not 'understanding' the field or what it is like to be a psychiatrist. They rotated through psych. They saw what the attendings and residents did.
 
most medical students lack of interest in psych has nothing at all to do with them not 'understanding' the field or what it is like to be a psychiatrist. They rotated through psych. They saw what the attendings and residents did.
Most medical school psych clerkships are mostly inpatient psych and C&L. Most programs have very little outpatient psych experience. This gives a very skewed view of psychiatry.
 
It's a great field.
I have never seen you say one positive thing about psychiatry, but I have seen you say many negative things. Does this not seem odd to you given your above quote?
 
Not trying to start a war or troll, just an honest curious question...what does the salary of a psychiatrist look like through the expereinces of physicians and residents on here? How does it compare to a neurologist salary? Again, i'm not all about the money but i am curious as I am hearing many different figures on the income.

there is a much higher income potential in neurology.....more procedures, more icu work.

Nice Mortellar...way to start a flame way...:laugh:

This should answer all of your questions: http://www.medscape.com/sites/public/physician-comp/2012

Mean income Psych: $170k
Mean income Neuro: $184k (so vistaril is right, neuro averages very slightly more).

Regardless, if both fields, the most likely block to fall into is in the $200-250k range, or close to it.

The other side to this story is in the hours worked per week though.

Psych: 36% < 30h/wk, 37% < 40h/wk. That's a combined 73% who work < 40h/wk.

Neuro: 20% < 30h/wk, 25% < 40h/wk. Total = 45% work < 40h/wk.

Plugging the numbers from this chart into a spread sheet, you get the following averages.

Psych = 37 hours per week (really 37.125, but who's counting...)

Neuro = 43 hours per week. (43.09 really)

SO...the hourly income averages are as follows (yearly pay / 52 weeks / hours):

Psych = 170k/52/37 = $88.36
Neuro = 184k/52/43 = $82.29

Feel Fairly Compensated Neuro: 43%
Feel Fairly Compensated Psych: 59%

So it looks to me like Vistaril is wrong again, and psychiatrists get paid more than neurologists. A little over $6/hour more, on average.

This doesn't take into account things like subspecialty (child makes a good bit more), life style, personal interest in the field, day vs night shifts, job security, overhead of a private practice, etc.

One huge reason I went into psych, aside from my interest in the field (which should ALWAYS be your primary motivator...the money may change in any direction at any time), is the ability to start a low overhead office in psych. Probably the best field left in medicine in which to do this. If you want to own your own place, it's hard to beat, especially in child psych.

Why do we work less hours? >55% of us are >55yo. Our field has one of the oldest average ages around, and many are half retired already. There are likely other reasons, such as better insight to the importance of work/life balance, but...

Anyways...if you have an interest in psych, hang out here a while, look into the research, talk to some psychiatrists...it's a very sweet gig. You couldn't pay me enough to do neuro...:laugh:
 
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Im getting a little sick of vistaril...whats ur issue man. You're saying you're spewing the truth, but the truth is you're way off. If I heard that as a med student I might not have done psych but my dad is a psychiatrist so i knew what the potential was. You're a 4th year resident who's not even in the real world yet. Man, when I was in your shoes I was going on interviews all over the country, high desirable locations, and getting fatty offers. Currently Im doing injections, suboxone, ECT, getting way more than 'average' because the averages are way off!. The best part is I can get up and go wherever I choose cause we are needed EVERYWHERE! You're starting to get really annoying vistaril..not sure if you are actually in psych and if you are maybe you should change specialties. I know I would if I had nothing good to say about psych like yourself.
But this goes back to what texas psych was saying, much less competition cause of d#*^&bags like vistaril 'speaking the truth'. Ignore this guy vistaril...he's a perpetual downer on EVERY thread. PM me if you want more info.
 
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Im getting a little sick of vistaril...whats ur issue man. You're saying you're spewing the truth, but the truth is you're way off. If I heard that as a med student I might not have done psych but my dad is a psychiatrist so i knew what the potential was. You're a 4th year resident who's not even in the real world yet. Man, when I was in your shoes I was going on interviews all over the country, high desirable locations, and getting fatty offers. Currently Im doing injections, suboxone, ECT, getting way more than 'average' because the averages are way off!. The best part is I can get up and go wherever I choose cause we are needed EVERYWHERE! You're starting to get really annoying vistaril..not sure if you are actually in psych and if you are maybe you should change specialties. I know I would if I had nothing good to say about psych like yourself.
But this goes back to what texas psych was saying, much less competition cause of d#*^&bags like vistaril 'speaking the truth'. Ignore this guy vistaril...he's a perpetual downer on EVERY thread. PM me if you want more info.

ah...how eloquent.

and yes, it's possible to make way more than average. That's true of every field. I know of family physicians making 350k+....

and what the heck does 'doing inections' mean?
 
and what the heck does 'doing inections' mean?
It means he's on heroin.

It should be noted that vistaril said neuro has higher earning potential. This is different than average salary.

If someone is asking the question about psych salary, the only useful answer, imo, is that you will lead a financially comfortable life if you choose psych. The average salary is decent, and you can easily work not-crazy hours and get paid very well. There are opportunities for making more money all over the place. If you worry about the money more than that, you're doing it wrong.
 
I saw a document a couple of years ago, but I have to admit I can't remember the source. I seem to remember it was pretty reputable, JAMA or Medscape or somesuch. It straight out compared different specialties in a salary survey, but it looked at a broken down by hours worked.

If I remember correctly, derm, radiology, and EM were near the top. Psychiatry was surprisingly high, and higher than neurology, internal medicine, family practice, peds, OB/GYN.
 
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It means he's on heroin.

It should be noted that vistaril said neuro has higher earning potential. This is different than average salary.

Pretty sure psych has a FAR higher earning potential than neurology. Don't know of any people paying $500/hr cash to see a neurologist.
 
Pretty sure psych has a FAR higher earning potential than neurology. Don't know of any people paying $500/hr cash to see a neurologist.

Wow. Who would pay $500/hr to see a psychiatrist?! I sure wouldn't. I don't think what we do is worth that. And even if pts willing to pay that are out there, I would certainly feel very guilty about charging that amount. $960K a year at 40 hr/week!
 
Wow. Who would pay $500/hr to see a psychiatrist?! I sure wouldn't. I don't think what we do is worth that. And even if pts willing to pay that are out there, I would certainly feel very guilty about charging that amount. $960K a year at 40 hr/week!

Therapy from a big dog in the field. Want some CBT from Aaron Beck? Hell, that's probably more than 500/hr.
 
Wow. Who would pay $500/hr to see a psychiatrist?! I sure wouldn't. I don't think what we do is worth that. And even if pts willing to pay that are out there, I would certainly feel very guilty about charging that amount. $960K a year at 40 hr/week!

That's high, but I've seen child psychiatrists charging close to that. It's not uncommon to see $100 for a 15 min med mgt appt...
 
Nah vistaril purposefully says things to piss people off on these boards. He a dbag in my opinion


Private practice doing vivitrol injections...although injecting heroine would b soooo much cooler
 
Im getting a little sick of vistaril...whats ur issue man. You're saying you're spewing the truth, but the truth is you're way off. If I heard that as a med student I might not have done psych but my dad is a psychiatrist so i knew what the potential was. You're a 4th year resident who's not even in the real world yet. Man, when I was in your shoes I was going on interviews all over the country, high desirable locations, and getting fatty offers. Currently Im doing injections, suboxone, ECT, getting way more than 'average' because the averages are way off!. The best part is I can get up and go wherever I choose cause we are needed EVERYWHERE! You're starting to get really annoying vistaril..not sure if you are actually in psych and if you are maybe you should change specialties. I know I would if I had nothing good to say about psych like yourself.
But this goes back to what texas psych was saying, much less competition cause of d#*^&bags like vistaril 'speaking the truth'. Ignore this guy vistaril...he's a perpetual downer on EVERY thread. PM me if you want more info.

Ok not that I want to make myself less popular than ever, but part of me wants to stick up for Vistaril.

Seriously if some med student bases their specialty choice on the postings of one person on SDN, well that med student has bigger problems than just being hoodwinked by Vistaril.

I don't really get why Vistaril upsets so many people... Are you guys really that "sensitive?" I don't agree with everything Vistaril says either, but I'm not going to pout for the rest of the day just because he/she takes a dig at psychiatry. Some of his/her posts are rather humorous. And that is uncommon in psychiatry!

Plus it is nice to see some unvarnished bluntness here on the psych forum, where things tend to be pretty self-congratulatory as a rule. In fact, when I WAS a med student, I found myself turned off by specialties where everyone seemed to be rolling in sentimentality. Hence I did not go into pediatrics. Or lord help me, primary care internal medicine. (Actual primary care is different.)

I gotta agree though that when you start going on interviews and realizing what a demand for psychiatrists there is in this county, it puts things in a different perspective. This week I called up a local place to ask about lowly moonlighting opportunities, and they offered me an attending position.
 
I don't really get why Vistaril upsets so many people... Are you guys really that "sensitive?"
All of his posts (that I can remember) speak negatively about psych or point out how another field has some advantage over psych. I have yet to see him say anything that is the slightest bit positive about psychiatry. It doesn't upset me in the sense of "you're speaking badly about my field, so I'm going to take that personally and act like you said something bad about me." It upsets me in the sense of "why are you in this residency and on this forum if all you ever do is talk about how much better it would be to be doing something else?"

It's one thing to make sure that prospective psychiatrists see the true story instead of just the rainbows and unicorns, but it's another thing to just rain down misery every single time you post.
 
Not to mention his utter refusal to participate in any discussion about this. We've asked him numerous times to please enlighten us as to why he is doing psych if he has such a low opinion of the field.

There had yet to be any reply. I'll throw it out there again, but this is a discussion board, and its simple etiquette to participate in polite discussion.
 
Not to mention his utter refusal to participate in any discussion about this. We've asked him numerous times to please enlighten us as to why he is doing psych if he has such a low opinion of the field.

There had yet to be any reply. I'll throw it out there again, but this is a discussion board, and its simple etiquette to participate in polite discussion.

I speculate that he might simultaneously enjoy the field but at the same time have a low opinion of the field (or at least some of its practitioners). As someone who completed a combined residency and fiercely clings to his identitiy as an internist, I can understand (but not necessarily agree with) that perspective.

Of course, no one but Vistaril knows his motives.
 
it's not 'downplaying' the field. It's a great field. The person asks a question about money. I'd rather be a psychiatrist for less money than a neurologist.

Also note that some neuro jobs dont pay well either. General academic neuro has a starting salary that is pretty much in line with psych(150-160)..


If we are being serious, I think Neuro and psych are pretty close when it comes to potential. It really depends on what exactly we are comparing.

A C&A psych fellowship could probably add an extra 200k/year or more to base salary if you were willing to go anywhere and take call.

Interventional Neuro could probably add 400k more on top of regular salaries if willing to take substantial call at the right place.

So Neuro by top fellowship beats psych.

If you are including business models (addiction centers, etc), psych has more opportunities that would bring in higher salaries.

If you take the average Neuro or Psych doc straight out of residency taking the first "average" job, the salaries won't have any appreciable differences after taxes.

Depending on your specific interests, either one could be more lucrative.
 
there is a much higher income potential in neurology.....more procedures, more icu work.

I completely agree with Vistaril here -On average, neurologists make more money than psychiatrists. This is true for general neurologists, and even more true for those who have done fellowships.
 
I completely agree with Vistaril here -On average, neurologists make more money than psychiatrists.
Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but I'm going to point out again that this isn't what vistaril said.
 
I speculate that he might simultaneously enjoy the field but at the same time have a low opinion of the field (or at least some of its practitioners).

While likely true, that would describe many of us. Liking psychiatry and thinking that many other psychiatrists are incompetent would describe my entire residency class and most of the faculty I work with. Of course, we might disagree on what the incompetence is.
 
Psychiatrists on a per hour basis have much more potential than neurologists, so to me psych wins the battle.

I do think the question is a bit ridiculous. It's like asking who gets paid more, the news anchorman for channel 7, or the weather man on channel 2? It depends on what the networks are paying them and in what part of the country they work and what their jobs pay too. There's so much variability in psych job opportunities that you can find jobs that blast other specialties out of the water, and those that seem just average pay.
 
As someone who completed a combined residency and fiercely clings to his identitiy as an internist.

Why must there be so much negative stereotypes of psychiatrists? Is anyone out there proud to be a psychiatrist? C'mon.
 
It upsets me in the sense of "why are you in this residency and on this forum if all you ever do is talk about how much better it would be to be doing something else?"

Just curious--would you feel the same way if this were the pre-allo thread and someone came along and said only bad things about organic chemistry? I loved my pre-med classes (more than anything since) and I used to get so annoyed by people who disparaged those topics... Or people who put down community colleges (I went to one for awhile).

See I think people get caught up in their identities. I know when my friends occasionally criticize aspects of psychiatry (say, oh, for example, the overmedicating of American children)--that I feel defensive and want to stick up for myself. But then I remember that in fact I am a neutral party.

If everyone on SDN were as negative as Vistaril, it would be one thing. But I am always glad to see a different viewpoint. (Of course, Vistaril could be a troll and laughing his arse off right now at me...). I think it actually requires some wit to be an effective Debbie Downer.

Of course, I am very jaded by med school and residency and at the moment my own opinion is pretty low. Maybe it will improve when I get more $$$... Who knew? Anyway I will keep following this thread because of the $$$ info.

Don't forget forensic psych can charge by the hour like lawyers. That field probably has unlimited income potential if you become a star. Is there anything in neuro like that? Same with psychotherapy--if you invent a new type of therapy you can copyright it and make the big time.
 
Just curious--would you feel the same way if this were the pre-allo thread and someone came along and said only bad things about organic chemistry? I loved my pre-med classes (more than anything since) and I used to get so annoyed by people who disparaged those topics... Or people who put down community colleges (I went to one for awhile).
Like I said, it isn't anything personal for me, and I'm not feeling like I have to get defensive of the field with Vistaril. It's the constant negativity about psych while proving an ability to speak well of things, so long as they are other fields of medicine. If someone came by and only posted things that showed orgo to be worse than other things, yes I would be just as upset and confused. Why be here if all your contributions have the message, "somewhere else would be a better place to be?"
 
Psychiatrists on a per hour basis have much more potential than neurologists, so to me psych wins the battle.
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what nonsense....in terms of 'potential', neuro can do pain procedures....and can do pain fellowships(actually do them, not have a one in a million shot)......a neurologist lining up block after block after block can bill more in an hour than a psychiatrist can in 8....
 
That's a lame example. Now your'e talking about pain fellowship trained doctors, of which neurologists and psychiatrists take part in. Some psychiatrists, like neurologists, serve as directors of these fellowships so don't try to paint it as a hard-to-reach fellowship option for psychiatrists.

What we are talking about in this whole discussion is pay based on neurologists working as neurologists (not pain docs) and psychiatrists working as psychiatrists. It's unfair to the argument if I were to say, well psychiatrists can be trained in botox, therefore they get paid way more than anesthesiologists, which is what your lame pain example is doing.
 
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. We've asked him numerous times to please enlighten us as to why he is doing psych if he has such a low opinion of the field.

.

I am going to take a risk and put my feelings in blunt terms. The basics of psychiatry (the knowledge it takes to pass board exams) are pretty limited in extent- about the same knowledge base it takes to understand one area of IM. For example, studying for the cardiology section of general IM boards/Maintenance of certification takes about as much time as studying for psychiatry boards (at least that's been my experience).
A psychiatrist who just knows the basics, does only med checks, and diagnoses everything as bipolar is a joke.
On the other hand, psychiatry is a difficult field to truly master. A psychiatrist who is seeking to always expand his knowledge and gain knowledge/skills in such areas as ECT, hypnosis, advanced psychotherapy, forensics, clinical research, etc can be a truly impressive physician.
On the other hand, I am impressed by pretty much all board-certified surgeons.

I don't consider myself a master psychiatrist, but I compensate with my knowledge of other areas of medicine (including sleep).

For all the med students out there interested in psych- only go into the field if you intend to be a great psychiatrist. Otherwise, go into an area like FM or IM.
 
That's a lame example. Now your'e talking about pain fellowship trained doctors, of which neurologists and psychiatrists take part in. Some psychiatrists, like neurologists, serve as directors of these fellowships so don't try to paint it as a hard-to-reach fellowship option for psychiatrists.

What we are talking about in this whole discussion is pay based on neurologists working as neurologists (not pain docs) and psychiatrists working as psychiatrists. It's unfair to the argument if I were to say, well psychiatrists can be trained in botox, therefore they get paid way more than anesthesiologists, which is what your lame pain example is doing.

It is more common for a neurologist to do a procedural fellowship (such as EMG/neurophys) and incorporate it into a neurology group practice. It is less common for a psychiatrist to do a procedural specialty such as pain or sleep, and more difficult to incorporate into a traditional psychiatric practice.
 
I am going to take a risk and put my feelings in blunt terms. The basics of psychiatry (the knowledge it takes to pass board exams) are pretty limited in extent- about the same knowledge base it takes to understand one area of IM. For example, studying for the cardiology section of general IM boards/Maintenance of certification takes about as much time as studying for psychiatry boards (at least that's been my experience).
A psychiatrist who just knows the basics, does only med checks, and diagnoses everything as bipolar is a joke.
On the other hand, psychiatry is a difficult field to truly master. A psychiatrist who is seeking to always expand his knowledge and gain knowledge/skills in such areas as ECT, hypnosis, advanced psychotherapy, forensics, clinical research, etc can be a truly impressive physician.
On the other hand, I am impressed by pretty much all board-certified surgeons.

I don't consider myself a master psychiatrist, but I compensate with my knowledge of other areas of medicine (including sleep).

For all the med students out there interested in psych- only go into the field if you intend to be a great psychiatrist. Otherwise, go into an area like FM or IM.


For the first point, don't forget the psychiatrists who label every concentration issue as ADD after a short questionairre and hand out stimulants like candy. Bipolar 2, add.

In every field there are docs who are are considered 'awesome' and docs who are considered 'incompetent'. Isn't that why there are medical boards to help point out and correct the flawed ones?

Not every doc can be 'great'.

Doing varied procedures in psychiatry can be a mark of a 'great' doc, but there is something to say about....wait for it.....a psych who does try to understand the 'whole' patient from a biopsychosoc point of view and not a bag of symptoms to fit into the dsm.

I am unsure about the cardio boards, but the IM board reqs a massive deal of knowledge and application. I personally liked studying for our oral board as it helps me become a better psych.
 
what nonsense....in terms of 'potential', neuro can do pain procedures....and can do pain fellowships(actually do them, not have a one in a million shot)......a neurologist lining up block after block after block can bill more in an hour than a psychiatrist can in 8....

and can do pain fellowships (actually do them...) ?? If you are going to "state the facts" then at least state them correctly. For the record, psychiatrist can do (and actually do) the same fellowship as the anesthesiologists. The training is all the same. The odds aren't that bad - not a lot of psychiatrists apply.
 
Nay-sayers and misinformation often go hand-in-hand unfortunately.
 
While likely true, that would describe many of us. Liking psychiatry and thinking that many other psychiatrists are incompetent would describe my entire residency class and most of the faculty I work with. Of course, we might disagree on what the incompetence is.

Same here
 
Not trying to start a war or troll, just an honest curious question...what does the salary of a psychiatrist look like through the expereinces of physicians and residents on here? How does it compare to a neurologist salary? Again, i'm not all about the money but i am curious as I am hearing many different figures on the income.

This thread got sidetracked. But to answer your original question, on average, a neurologist gets paid more, but they also work more. The per hour salary is roughly equivalent, with a potential leg up for psychiatry. The work is very different. Personally I enjoy the daily work of psychiatry much more than neurology.

I think the two fields are not too distinct in terms of salary potential, but are very different in terms of type of patients you see and occasionally lifestyle.

On average, the average psychiatrist in the US makes roughly 200k. But there is a HUGE variation depending on a number of factors, as you probably already know.
 
That's a lame example. Now your'e talking about pain fellowship trained doctors, of which neurologists and psychiatrists take part in. Some psychiatrists, like neurologists, serve as directors of these fellowships so don't try to paint it as a hard-to-reach fellowship option for psychiatrists.

What we are talking about in this whole discussion is pay based on neurologists working as neurologists (not pain docs) and psychiatrists working as psychiatrists. It's unfair to the argument if I were to say, well psychiatrists can be trained in botox, therefore they get paid way more than anesthesiologists, which is what your lame pain example is doing.

again, more delusional talk. How many psychiatrists are trained in interventional pain? Virtually zero....there may be a few out there. But it's obvious that psychiatrists do not typically do interventional pain fellowships.

Furthermore, a lot of neurologists do simple pain procedures without doing a fellowship. Occipital blocks for example. You stack those up one after another and they are fairly lucrative, and thats something most general neurologists do.
 
I am going to take a risk and put my feelings in blunt terms. The basics of psychiatry (the knowledge it takes to pass board exams) are pretty limited in extent- about the same knowledge base it takes to understand one area of IM. For example, studying for the cardiology section of general IM boards/Maintenance of certification takes about as much time as studying for psychiatry boards (at least that's been my experience).
A psychiatrist who just knows the basics, does only med checks, and diagnoses everything as bipolar is a joke.
On the other hand, psychiatry is a difficult field to truly master. A psychiatrist who is seeking to always expand his knowledge and gain knowledge/skills in such areas as ECT, hypnosis, advanced psychotherapy, forensics, clinical research, etc can be a truly impressive physician.
On the other hand, I am impressed by pretty much all board-certified surgeons.

I don't consider myself a master psychiatrist, but I compensate with my knowledge of other areas of medicine (including sleep).

For all the med students out there interested in psych- only go into the field if you intend to be a great psychiatrist. Otherwise, go into an area like FM or IM.


this pretty much mirrors how I feel. I also feel that a very small % are truly 'master' psychiatrists. Far more common are those(especially in the community) follow your previous example....although I dont think they diagnose everything bipolar. But still, the knowledge base is fairly limited and not all that broad.
 
and can do pain fellowships (actually do them...) ?? If you are going to "state the facts" then at least state them correctly. For the record, psychiatrist can do (and actually do) the same fellowship as the anesthesiologists. The training is all the same. The odds aren't that bad - not a lot of psychiatrists apply.

how many other psychiatrists do you know who do interventional pain? It's almost certainly very small.

As far as stating the facts, I never said it's not technically possible for a psychiatrist to do pain. It's just rarer than black panthers in florida.

we don't know 'the odds'(I suspect they would be very poor) just because the sample is so small.
 
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