PsyD progrms in NYC/PHILLY/NJ/CONNECTICUT

[tpsy]

Hello everyone. I know there are thousands of forums that have been created about this topic. However, a lot of them are from several years ago.


I am currently a masters student in mental health counseling. I am doing an internship in New Jersey and plan on applying to a PsyD program in clinical psychology soon after taking my GRE.


Does anyone have any advice/opinions on this process?


The schools I am currently looking at (some are PHD programs and some are counseling doctorate programs) include: Rutgers, Columbia, NYU, PCOM, Yeshiva, Hofstra, Widener, etc.


**I am especially interested in PCOM's program. So any PCOM PsyD students who happen to read this, you'd be of great help! I just need some guidance and help. I have been emailing and contacting various schools/current students/alumni and I just want to make sure I have done everything in terms of using my resources wisely. Thank you all for your time.**

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[PHD12]

Hello everyone. I know there are thousands of forums that have been created about this topic. However, a lot of them are from several years ago.


I am currently a masters student in mental health counseling. I am doing an internship in New Jersey and plan on applying to a PsyD program in clinical psychology soon after taking my GRE.


Does anyone have any advice/opinions on this process?


The schools I am currently looking at (some are PHD programs and some are counseling doctorate programs) include: Rutgers, Columbia, NYU, PCOM, Yeshiva, Hofstra, Widener, etc.


**I am especially interested in PCOM's program. So any PCOM PsyD students who happen to read this, you'd be of great help! I just need some guidance and help. I have been emailing and contacting various schools/current students/alumni and I just want to make sure I have done everything in terms of using my resources wisely. Thank you all for your time.**

As a rule of thumb, you may want to eliminate programs that have below 80% APA internship match rates. I believe PCOM and Widener are way below 80% for APA. I just checked and PCOM has less than a 50% APA internship match rate. Not completing an APA internship has important implications for your long-term career potential. This past fall I went through the job and postdoc process as a recent clinical psychology graduate. All the postdocs I applied to required an APA internship (APPIC was not enough) and jobs are now more likely to ask for an APA internship as way to weed out applicants. I see this happening more frequently as the job market for psychologists continues to become even more cutthroat. Good luck.

 

[tpsy]

Thanks for your advice. How does this effect your long-term career potential? I thought it's mostly important to go to an APA accredited university, and if your internship is APA accredited then it's just a bonus. It seems like there are a lot of success stories from PCOM graduates--even on their website it lists what a lot of alumni are doing.

 

[PHD12]

Thanks for your advice. How does this effect your long-term career potential? I thought it's mostly important to go to an APA accredited university, and if your internship is APA accredited then it's just a bonus. It seems like there are a lot of success stories from PCOM graduates--even on their website it lists what a lot of alumni are doing.

Anecdotal evidence of success stories does not say much about the graduates as a whole. If they admit about 30 students per year, then they have had hundreds of graduates and can easily find 20% that are very doing well. I don't have anything against PCOM in particular. I am giving you advice as someone who recently went through the postdoc and job market in clinical psychology. I would have not had anywhere decent to apply to for postdoc actually if I did not complete an APA internship. 80% of the listing i saw required an APA internship for postdoc and i've seen in increasingly for jobs. I am pretty confident that I would have fared poorly in the postdoc market without an APA internship even coming from a great program. This is especially the case if you want to live in a major metropolitan area. When you complete you degree, you aren't licensed and so you will need to complete about 2,000 hours under supervision (easiest way to get these hours is through a postdoc). If you want to live in a competitive location, there are literally over 100 applicants for 1-3 spots. Plus, you can't work for the VA or the federal government as a psychologist without an APA internship. VA is the largest employer of psychologists in clinical positions and pays higher than most clinical jobs.

 

[tpsy]

Wow, thanks. That's a lot to take in, but I appreciate your advice. Even though the easiest way to get those 2,000 hours of supervision for licensure is through postdoc programs, aren't there other options (like applying to a place that will hire you for those hours)? Do you have to go to an APA accredited postdoc program in order to have those 2,000 hours count towards your licensure? I want to be licensed in NYC for sure--the other areas, I'm ok with not being licensed in. Of course, being licensed in more than one place is always great, but NYC is my priority. Any thoughts?


How would you say the job market is for clinical psychologists right now? Another thing I hope you don't mind me asking/bringing up is salary. I think it's awkward and can come off as too intrusive when talking about this to people I may actually know or people I am directly speaking with on the phone/in person. I know BLS.GOV has its statistics specific to each location, but what would you say your opinion is on this matter? Thanks for your quick response too, by the way. I really appreciate it.

 

[tpsy]

I also saw that PCOM has a postdoc program and there was an alum who was dually licensed in NY and PA...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Thanks for your advice. How does this effect your long-term career potential? I thought it's mostly important to go to an APA accredited university, and if your internship is APA accredited then it's just a bonus. It seems like there are a lot of success stories from PCOM graduates--even on their website it lists what a lot of alumni are doing.

100% incorrect.

Historically APA-Acred. status was set as the minimum level of training needed to be competent and get licensed as a psychologist. This has been twisted by the introduction of alternative paths of training, so statements like you heard above start to sound legitimate. Can people eek out a career w/o an APA-acred. internship....yes. Is that the norm...no.

Very soon (some may argue it has already happened) there will be a split of the Have's and Have Not's when it comes to APA-acred. internship spots. Most/All of the better jobs will require (or already require) APA-acred. internships because there are plenty of applicants out there to fill those positions.

If you want to practice in a more competitive geographic area like NY/NJ/CT/MA, you will be dead in the water trying to compete without an APA-acred. internship. This is *still* the standard for the field.

 

[PHD12]

Even though the easiest way to get those 2,000 hours of supervision for licensure is through postdoc programs, aren't there other options (like applying to a place that will hire you for those hours)? Do you have to go to an APA accredited postdoc program in order to have those 2,000 hours count towards your licensure? I want to be licensed in NYC for sure--the other areas, I'm ok with not being licensed in. Of course, being licensed in more than one place is always great, but NYC is my priority. Any thoughts?


How would you say the job market is for clinical psychologists right now? Another thing I hope you don't mind me asking/bringing up is salary. I think it's awkward and can come off as too intrusive when talking about this to people I may actually know or people I am directly speaking with on the phone/in person. I know BLS.GOV has its statistics specific to each location, but what would you say your opinion is on this matter? Thanks for your quick response too, by the way. I really appreciate it.

Good post above by T4C.

Yeah, there are other options for licensure over a postdoc, but some can be very risky. One is to get hours through a private/group practice. I looked into this at one point and spoke to graduates who spent years trying to accrue enough hours and were earning poverty wages. You don't want the postdoc process to drag 2-4 years because the practice was unable to provide you with enough patients. This will obviously depend on the ability of the practice to generate enough patients, which is not easy when you can't take insurance as an unlicensed person. From my experience, if you want to live in a competitive location (NYC certainly fits the bill) most jobs will not hire you without licensure so you will need a postdoc. I posted recently that one VA near me gets about 500 applicants per one psychologist opening.

Salaries are widely variable so I cannot give you an accurate estimate. Do a search on this forum on clinical psychologists salaries and there are a ton of threads you will find. The bls.gov has the median at 68K for psychologists while the APA salary survey has it around 80-87K for clinical/counseling psychologists with a median of 22 years of experience. I believe the apa salary survey is higher b/c they only look at doctoral level psychologist in that category and the majority of the survey is based on people with 20-30 years of experience and very few are early career psychologists. The early career salary survey has the median at 50-60k for clinical psychologists 1 year after graduating. I have seen higher medians for neuropsychologists.

 

[mcvcm92]

I'd advise against NYU's Counseling Ph.D program because it seems like it takes their students forever to actually graduate... the average is over 10 years even for students with advanced standing (like you would be). http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/appsych/phd/counseling_psychology/Students_Admissions_Outcomes_Other_Data

I've heard good things about Hofstra's Clinical Ph.D & Rutgers' Clinical Psy.D programs, but they both suffer from not-so-great funding. I think they both offer around 10K per year on average. I've heard mixed things on Yeshiva and I know their funding is bad (worse than Hofstra and Rutgers).

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Do you have to go to an APA accredited postdoc program in order to have those 2,000 hours count towards your licensure? I want to be licensed in NYC for sure--the other areas, I'm ok with not being licensed in. Of course, being licensed in more than one place is always great, but NYC is my priority. Any thoughts?

1. Each state outlines what qualifies for post-doc hours. Ken Pope's website has a listing of all US states and Canadian territories and links to the appropriate governing legislation. From my understanding, no state requires the post-doc to be APA-acred, though there are a handful of states that require an APA-acred. internship. I do not believe NY is one of them, though they have their own quirks for licensure.

How would you say the job market is for clinical psychologists right now?

The job market is competitive. In general, people who specialize and pursue formal training in an area have an easier time finding a job than those people who do not. The job market in NYC is fierce, at least for the better paying jobs.

Another thing I hope you don't mind me asking/bringing up is salary.

Do a search on here, as this has been discussed quite a bit. The short answer is that salaries are all over the place. Geography impacts some of the salaries (San Francisco, CA v. Santa Fe, NM), but there are often large disparities within a local region. NYC is a bit of a unique situation, as there are a ton of jobs, but even more people competing for those jobs. I've seen more "job" options in NYC than anywhere else, but actual "careers" are much harder to secure. There are always advertisements for quasi-FT positions that have zero job security and lack benefits, but that isn't the kind of positions most people want after investing 7-8 years of their lives into their education.

 

[PHD12]

The job market is competitive. In general, people who specialize and pursue formal training in an area have an easier time finding a job than those people who do not. The job market in NYC is fierce, at least for the better paying jobs.

Good points. I wanted to add that if you are one of those people that cannot imagine living anywhere outside of the NYC area, then this career path will be quite difficult for you. Since the job market is overly saturated and competitive, folks who are able to be geographically flexible are more likely to have better career prospects. Most people have to move for graduate school, then again internship or postdoc, and sometimes again for the first job. You have to hussle in this field from start to finish. Psychiatry and NP are the only MH careers that are in demand. If you are interested in a practitioner career, why not stick with you MA as opposed to adding on another 7-8 years of training and possibly debt? Since you aren't looking at fully funded programs. the debt and years of lost income will not place you in a better financial situation with a doctorate degree.

 

[MusicalMind]

As a rule of thumb, you may want to eliminate programs that have below 80% APA internship match rates. I believe PCOM and Widener are way below 80% for APA. I just checked and PCOM has less than a 50% APA internship match rate. Not completing an APA internship has important implications for your long-term career potential. This past fall I went through the job and postdoc process as a recent clinical psychology graduate. All the postdocs I applied to required an APA internship (APPIC was not enough) and jobs are now more likely to ask for an APA internship as way to weed out applicants. I see this happening more frequently as the job market for psychologists continues to become even more cutthroat. Good luck.

??? Widener has an integrated internship built into the program, which is APA accredited. For this reason they have a 100% match rate. Hard to beat that. Am I missing something?
http://www.widener.edu/academics/schools/shsp/psyd/studentadmissionsandotherdata.aspx

 

[PHD12]

??? Widener has an integrated internship built into the program, which is APA accredited. For this reason they have a 100% match rate. Hard to beat that. Am I missing something?
http://www.widener.edu/academics/schools/shsp/psyd/studentadmissionsandotherdata.aspx

My bad. I accidentally looked at the N instead of %. They are at 100%....hard to beat. PCOM is the one below 50%.

 

[CheetahGirl]

To the OP -

For NYC area PsyD programs, look into:

Long Island University - CW Post campus
Pace University - Manhattan campus

I don't know their match rates, etc. but their reputations as Universities are well-regarded and I believe both have favorable funding. They both may be clinical/school psyd focused-so make sure you are aware of whether they are or not.

(Adelphi has a PhD that is a little more competitive, especially if you are not therapy-focused or somewhat psychodynamically oriented, but it is an established, solid program. And no one mentioned Fordam, CUNY, or Fairleigh Dickinson anywhere but maybe because they are clinical psych PhDs. However, if you are pursuing a PsyD to become a great therapist, then these clinical psych PhDs will turn you into a great therapist with a solid-base in research, similar to Hofstra's & Yeshiva's training...and the possible PhD funding is always a Bonus.)

Gook luck!

 

[tpsy]

Thank you all for sharing your opinions/knowledge. I really appreciate it. If anyone is coming from a specific university in any of the regions listed in the topic of this thread--please contact me or let me know which university you are from. Thank you.