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- Mar 9, 2013
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This is the most "WHOA" part of what I read from you: "Yes, totally... I understand psychology is a science & I definitely want to have a solid understanding of research. I do not want to get into a program that is so heavily research-oriented though, that I end up graduating with all of this wonderful knowledge but I'm not really able to apply it."
The whole point of developing research knowledge and experience during clinical programs is to APPLY it, even in heavily research based programs. How else are you going to practice every day? You don't just walk into a room and talk to someone until they are better, or try some random procedure that sounds cool that someone told you about once or twice. And for researchers, it's important to know this so that you can translate your work from the research lab to the clinical world. As a clinician, you will be practicing for a long time- you need to understand how to evaluate and implement new therapies, and how to understand what works and what doesn't. You can't just have someone in grad school tell you what has been shown to work and what doesn't- because things constantly change in this field.
I'd also say that my clinical psych PhD program is on the "very heavily research oriented" side, and that is actually a GOOD thing for my clinical skills- as part of our clinical studies, I get the opportunity to do tons of assessments, and do different types of therapies (group, family, individual)- all as part of our studies (which is likely why people who come from PhD programs get more clinical hours than people from PsyD programs). We also get very good clinical supervision from our PI, as they are personally invested in how well we deliver and adhere to the interventions. The extra part is that I learn how to examine different areas that interest me- for example, you could do your own research on the therapies that interest you to see how much and who they benefit. And I get to learn how to evaluate current research, understand various theories, and apply that to clinical work. Keep in mind that your patients in the future will be a grab bag of everything- it's important that you have a really good solid foundation in both clinical and research areas so that you can be flexible and adaptive both between individuals but also over time.
Lastly, here's my life advice, which you probably don't want.
If you go to a lower-tier PsyD program, you might enjoy your day-to-day. You might enjoy the program, the clinical work you do, and the people in your cohort. But you will probably find the rest of your career a struggle- the APA internship process is tough for everyone, but at certain schools, match rate can be as low as 20%. This mean you might have to spend a few years applying JUST for an internship. You don't get your degree until after you complete this, by the way. And not getting an APA internship will affect the rest of your career. You can say, "oh, of course I'd be one of those 20% people who would get the internship." But guess what? EVERYBODY in your cohort is thinking the exact same thing. The expense will likely be overwhelming either for you and/or your parents. Very few people have money on the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars just sitting in their pocket- especially for a career where you barely make any money. To give you a reference point, you might make $50k after graduation- I made about $20k more than that my first year out of undergraduate (before I decided to go back into academia and poverty, obviously). If you're sacrificing your financial future- or your family's- with minimal likelihood of a return on investment, you should think long and hard about it. Keep in mind that there is the cost of tuition, but also the cost of living- and that your program may be extended by a few years if you have difficulty matching. The internship crisis will likely only get worse over the years, as well.
If you go to a stronger clinically-focused PhD program, it will likely be harder. There will be classes and days where you probably won't enjoy yourself as much, since you'll be forced to learn things like statistics, research methods, and the like. But you will also get tons of great clinical training and clinical opportunities, both within the context of research and out of it. You won't spend any money on tuition, and you will have a stipend to live on. You will come out a quality researcher, as well as a quality practitioner. You will have a much better likelihood of matching for internship, and likely more career opportunities after you graduation. I'd also be willing to bet a few bucks that you'd come out a better clinician.
Again, this is generalizations. There are a handful of PsyD programs that are great, and some PhD programs that aren't. I'm not as familiar with Counseling PhD programs, but I imagine the important aspects are the same. The most important aspects of programs are: APA internship matching, size of cohort (you want small- as in, not 50+ people per cohort), tuition remission + stipend, research "fit" (as in, you want to go to a program where they do research and clinical work in whatever it is you're interested in), and the balance between clinical and research. Even if you prefer a more heavily clinical program, I'd suggest a balanced program, as these programs tend to have more money, better reputation, and clinical opportunities within their research.
Lastly, if you genuinely just want to practice, I'd strongly suggest you consider other options like a MSW or a master's in counseling, as someone mentioned above. These degrees will cost significantly less than a PsyD, be significantly shorter, and it sounds like might be a better fit for the vision of your future.
The whole point of developing research knowledge and experience during clinical programs is to APPLY it, even in heavily research based programs. How else are you going to practice every day? You don't just walk into a room and talk to someone until they are better, or try some random procedure that sounds cool that someone told you about once or twice. And for researchers, it's important to know this so that you can translate your work from the research lab to the clinical world. As a clinician, you will be practicing for a long time- you need to understand how to evaluate and implement new therapies, and how to understand what works and what doesn't. You can't just have someone in grad school tell you what has been shown to work and what doesn't- because things constantly change in this field.
I'd also say that my clinical psych PhD program is on the "very heavily research oriented" side, and that is actually a GOOD thing for my clinical skills- as part of our clinical studies, I get the opportunity to do tons of assessments, and do different types of therapies (group, family, individual)- all as part of our studies (which is likely why people who come from PhD programs get more clinical hours than people from PsyD programs). We also get very good clinical supervision from our PI, as they are personally invested in how well we deliver and adhere to the interventions. The extra part is that I learn how to examine different areas that interest me- for example, you could do your own research on the therapies that interest you to see how much and who they benefit. And I get to learn how to evaluate current research, understand various theories, and apply that to clinical work. Keep in mind that your patients in the future will be a grab bag of everything- it's important that you have a really good solid foundation in both clinical and research areas so that you can be flexible and adaptive both between individuals but also over time.
Lastly, here's my life advice, which you probably don't want.
If you go to a lower-tier PsyD program, you might enjoy your day-to-day. You might enjoy the program, the clinical work you do, and the people in your cohort. But you will probably find the rest of your career a struggle- the APA internship process is tough for everyone, but at certain schools, match rate can be as low as 20%. This mean you might have to spend a few years applying JUST for an internship. You don't get your degree until after you complete this, by the way. And not getting an APA internship will affect the rest of your career. You can say, "oh, of course I'd be one of those 20% people who would get the internship." But guess what? EVERYBODY in your cohort is thinking the exact same thing. The expense will likely be overwhelming either for you and/or your parents. Very few people have money on the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars just sitting in their pocket- especially for a career where you barely make any money. To give you a reference point, you might make $50k after graduation- I made about $20k more than that my first year out of undergraduate (before I decided to go back into academia and poverty, obviously). If you're sacrificing your financial future- or your family's- with minimal likelihood of a return on investment, you should think long and hard about it. Keep in mind that there is the cost of tuition, but also the cost of living- and that your program may be extended by a few years if you have difficulty matching. The internship crisis will likely only get worse over the years, as well.
If you go to a stronger clinically-focused PhD program, it will likely be harder. There will be classes and days where you probably won't enjoy yourself as much, since you'll be forced to learn things like statistics, research methods, and the like. But you will also get tons of great clinical training and clinical opportunities, both within the context of research and out of it. You won't spend any money on tuition, and you will have a stipend to live on. You will come out a quality researcher, as well as a quality practitioner. You will have a much better likelihood of matching for internship, and likely more career opportunities after you graduation. I'd also be willing to bet a few bucks that you'd come out a better clinician.
Again, this is generalizations. There are a handful of PsyD programs that are great, and some PhD programs that aren't. I'm not as familiar with Counseling PhD programs, but I imagine the important aspects are the same. The most important aspects of programs are: APA internship matching, size of cohort (you want small- as in, not 50+ people per cohort), tuition remission + stipend, research "fit" (as in, you want to go to a program where they do research and clinical work in whatever it is you're interested in), and the balance between clinical and research. Even if you prefer a more heavily clinical program, I'd suggest a balanced program, as these programs tend to have more money, better reputation, and clinical opportunities within their research.
Lastly, if you genuinely just want to practice, I'd strongly suggest you consider other options like a MSW or a master's in counseling, as someone mentioned above. These degrees will cost significantly less than a PsyD, be significantly shorter, and it sounds like might be a better fit for the vision of your future.
As far as EPPP pass rate, I wasn't too concerned about that as my scores have always been high on any standardized test and the EPPP was no exception.
