PsyD tranfer from US to UK

[hum1]

Hello,

I am currently on my second year (of 5) of my PsyD program in California but I want to return to the UK once I finish my second year. I would like to be able to continue my program there and not lose all my training, work and money invested. Is it possible to ask for the transference of credits in order not to start all over again? What would I need to do?

Thank you for the help!

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[psych.meout]

Hello,

I am currently on my second year of my PsyD program in California but I want to return to the UK once I finish my second year. I would like to be able to continue my program there and not lose all my training, work and money invested. Is it possible to ask for the transference of credits in order not to start all over again? What would I need to do?

Thank you for the help!

I think PsyD's are a US-only thing, so I have no idea how something like that would transfer to another country that doesn't have the degree.

Furthermore, I don't think the UK system and requirements for clinical practice are the same as those in the US. I think PhDs there are more research-oriented and there is a separate doctorate (I think they are 3-year programs) for clinical practice.

Finally, why are you leaving your program after two years? Again, I'm not exactly sure how things work in the UK and what it would mean to leave your program after two years, but I'm fairly certain in the US it would be somewhat difficult to transfer from one doctoral program to another, let alone not lose any credits, practica hours, and/or money, without good reason.

 

[hum1]

Thank you for your thoughts.

I believe that in the UK the PsyD should be equivalent to a ClinPsyD, although the former is a 5 year study program and the latter is a 3 year one.

The reason why I want to return to the UK is because I am finding it difficult to adapt to the US. It would be very painful for me to stay 4 or 5 more years here in the US, so I am looking for alternatives (I have been living here for 3 years, and trying really hard, but I think it is time to realise that I cannot do it).

 

[psych.meout]

Thank you for your thoughts.

I believe that in the UK the PsyD should be equivalent to a ClinPsyD, although the former is a 5 year study program and the latter is a 3 year one.

"Should be" is different than "is." You should probably contact someone in the NHS or at a specific UK program and ask them if you credits would transfer and what would be the implications for practicing in the UK.

The reason why I want to return to the UK is because I am finding it difficult to adapt to the US. It would be very painful for me to stay 4 or 5 more years here in the US, so I am looking for alternatives.

What has been so difficult in adapting to the US?

 

[hum1]

"What has been so difficult in adapting to the US?

This would be a very long discussion. Overall, I live in the LA suburbia so I miss the lively city life; I do not identify with the American philosophy of pragmatism, utilitarianism and empiricism; I miss people being more authentic and not being just white smiling teeth advertisement actors (not everybody, of course); I miss having intellectual conversations with my graduate colleagues instead of listening to their conversations about food, shopping and how someone bough a new bunny, point at which others will look, open their eyes, raise their eyebrows and exclaim a long "Ohhhhhh"; I miss the rain and the trees; I miss not having to pretend not to be so enthusiastic about life and everything insignificant that happens around me; I miss going to a good bookstore in London; I miss not having to hard sell myself as if I am a commodity; I miss people who enjoy sarcasm and black humor; I miss not to have to drive my car to ecerywhere I go; I miss being able to spend more than a year without having to get training on sexual harassment and going to seminars having people wanting to make me to feel guilty about being an heterosexual white male who would like to see me crucified; I miss reality and not looking at a rock which is not really a rock but a speaker in desguise, and I dislike to look around at beautiful lustful gardens but with the real desolate California mountains on the back; I miss talking to people without them immediately asking me "What do you do for a living?" and what size my barbecue is (I do not intend to generalize, of course); I miss houses that have character; I miss studying in graduate school without having teachers who think that I should be entertained, micromanaged and told what to do as if I were a baby...

I think this should be enough... I do not intend to offend any sensibilities, it is just my personal experience and it should be considered as such.

 

[deleted343839]

If I were being generous I'd suggest you're simply on the wrong coast. But I'm having trouble looking past the part where you don't explain your motivations for being in this strange land in the first place. Clearly your thought process was not "OMG I looooooovvve the O.C. how can I live there forever??!" (To be fair, most Americans would not disagree with you.) So without knowing your story, or the options you either didn't have or decided to leave behind in the UK, it's hard to give advice as to next steps.

Somehow, you chose this program that "tells you what to do" and micromanages your time. Were you deceived? Did you not do your homework? Whatever happened, somehow you ended up there. This is not a passive outcome. This should tell you something about yourself and you should try to learn from it rather than externalizing all your woes.

To answer your question more directly, the British Psychological Society would be a good resource for information on training issues.

 

[hum1]

MamaPhD , I appreciate your honest comments.

Allow me to be post-modern and to look at my situation from various perspectives, but retrospectively, it was an impulsive and wrong decision. My wife got a job offer to work here so we thought it would be good for her career; we visited CA some years before our move and were seduced by the natural beauty of the place; my work situation at the UK was not the best one (I am originally from Spain) so it made sense to move and look for a job in psychology abroad (I was a clinical psychologist in Spain and in the UK but when I moved to the US I lost my license and now I have to do my training all over again); and we were not very mindful that there is no such thing such as "the US" but that people and culture varies immensely within the several states (I still do not know if most 30 year old people in NY make a duck face and claim Ohhhhhhh when they hear the word bunny).

Personally, it was not a passive outcome and I accept my responsibility in the situation (both conscious and unconscious). Perhaps I am too hard on myself and seek ways of punishing myself. Perhaps I am afraid of success and undermine any possibility for it to happen. But when I arrived here and was striped from my clinical license I had two options: do some menial job or try to resume my practice in psychology, so I decided for the latter. A PhD would be more suitable but I did not have enough GPA to enter a program and I am too old, I am almost 40 (grades in Europe are lower than in the US, and I have always been a slightly above average student). So my only option would be a PsyD program. So I choose one which had a couple of teachers which practiced the orientation that I like and applied to the program. But I am not very happy with the training, I find teachers too concerned with being entertaining, too much reliance on self reflection from students, too many reflection papers who are mainly concerned with one's own critique of some theory without much academic rigor, and impossible amounts of reading which make me "read everything and nothing at the same time" - no time for reflection or assimilation, and most importantly, do not allow me to have time to read about my own academic interests. I am not being trained to be an independent thinker or clinician, but on how well I can cope with huge amounts of work and/or comply with the work/deadlines that I am being assigned. Of course that I cannot overgeneralize my impressions to every school or to anyone else.

I have an opportunity to return to the UK now but the problem is that I have already paid my 1st year tuition and the first semester for the 2nd year. I would not like to loose the money that I have paid, so my dilemma is should I stay here for another 4 years, suffer and end my degree that will be an asset both in Spain or the UK, then leave CA; or seek some training in the UK that accepts transference of my credits here and move now?

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, I'd hate the US if I lived in a suburb of LA too. Can't blame you there as all of the things you mention are not the reality in any of the places I have lived, trained, or worked for the most part. Also, considering the PsyD's in that area, I'd assume that you're best off forgetting most of what they taught you and starting over in a reputable program. I doubt much, if anything, would be transferable.

 

[entitlement]

Come up to the Bay Area, you would be right at home and tons of immigrants from the UK (and Spain) here!

I actually looked recently into whether it would be an easy transfer of my PhD from here to Spain or Germany, and the process seemed immensely difficult and complicated. I have two friends who recently attempted to transfer their clinical psychology degrees from Europe (one from Spain and one from the UK) to the U.S. and faced immense roadblocks. One of them ended up having to take extra courses and "respecialize" in order to be able to get licensed in the states (although to be fair, his background is in neuropsychology and that might be what made it tough, not necessarily the clinical piece).

From my understanding , we do not have the same type of reciprocity with PhD programs with Europe, that we have with Canada, for instance. And because we don't easily accept European PhDs as is, Europe (rightfully so) is doing the same to us. Curious if this also plays out in the medical and related fields.

 

[GoPokes]

I miss being able to spend more than a year without having to get training on sexual harassment and going to seminars having people wanting to make me to feel guilty about being an heterosexual white male who would like to see me crucified;

Lol. This gem though

 

[WisNeuro]

Lol. This gem though

Well, hyperbole does seem to fit our current political climate well.

 

[hum1]

entitlement , did your friends had PhD's or the European academic degree of a licentiate?

I have a licentiate degree in clinical psychology from Spain, which is a 5 year study degree in clinical psychology. My degree allowed me to be a clinical psychologist both in Spain and in the UK. However, in California this degree was not recognized and thus in order to be a psychologist here, I am taking my whole training again. Since the PsyD is an almost exact copy of my old licentiate degree, the problem is I am finding it too hard to feel motivated and sit in classes learning about things that I have already learned before.

People say that I am brave for taking my whole training again. I think it is more within the realm of stupidity. Or perhaps it is something between the two.

 

[occupationalguy]

This would be a very long discussion. Overall, I live in the LA suburbia so I miss the lively city life; I do not identify with the American philosophy of pragmatism, utilitarianism and empiricism; I miss people being more authentic and not being just white smiling teeth advertisement actors (not everybody, of course); I miss having intellectual conversations with my graduate colleagues instead of listening to their conversations about food, shopping and how someone bough a new bunny, point at which others will look, open their eyes, raise their eyebrows and exclaim a long "Ohhhhhh"; I miss the rain and the trees; I miss not having to pretend not to be so enthusiastic about life and everything insignificant that happens around me; I miss going to a good bookstore in London; I miss not having to hard sell myself as if I am a commodity; I miss people who enjoy sarcasm and black humor; I miss not to have to drive my car to ecerywhere I go; I miss being able to spend more than a year without having to get training on sexual harassment and going to seminars having people wanting to make me to feel guilty about being an heterosexual white male who would like to see me crucified; I miss reality and not looking at a rock which is not really a rock but a speaker in desguise, and I dislike to look around at beautiful lustful gardens but with the real desolate California mountains on the back; I miss talking to people without them immediately asking me "What do you do for a living?" and what size my barbecue is (I do not intend to generalize, of course); I miss houses that have character; I miss studying in graduate school without having teachers who think that I should be entertained, micromanaged and told what to do as if I were a baby...

I think this should be enough... I do not intend to offend any sensibilities, it is just my personal experience and it should be considered as such.

A few comments from an American who has lived in the UK and in continental Europe:

I don't entirely disagree about some of your points. I've lived in Southern California and I experienced some of the same culture shock. I have also lived in England, and by and large I found it to be a rather miserable place with less than appetizing food and awful weather. "Dark humor" is another way of saying grumpy.

I'm not being rude but I had difficulty with the lower attention to oral and body hygiene in the UK and in continental Europe. I never thought oral hygiene was a sticking point for me until I went on dates and tried to kiss people who had rarely seen a dentist, nonetheless an orthodontist. Compared to continental Europeans the British are a clean lot; the memories of body odor in Spain and France are poignant. In France I recall going to cocktail parties etc, and people smelling as if they had not brushed their teeth or showered and doused themselves in perfume. Continental European friends were horrified that I showered daily in the winter, they were convinced that it would make me sick. I was informed that showering 1-2 times a week is much better for you. Gross.

Another oddity was the peculiar superstitions people had in Europe regarding health. People in Spain think "night air" makes you sick. They shut the windows at night even when it is stifling hot. Another medievalism I encountered was the Spanish idea of "heating your core" body temperature and how it makes you sick.

Every society has it's problems: You have the BNP, we have Trump. You have Brexit, we have Trump. You have radical Islamic fundies like Anjam Choudary and we have .....much more docile Christian rightwingers.

With all that said, I wish you the best of luck. I have traveled the world over and I realized that although cultures vary people are usually fundamentally the same in their aspirations for a good life, with good food, family and friends.

 

[entitlement]

You must have been a real hit with the Europeans, way to keep the "ignorant American" stereotypes in Europe alive and well. I am not even sure the purpose of your post - the OP made some generalizations from living in the OC burbs to all Americans so you decided to take it up a notch? I am not sure if you all are considering careers in this field (or, help us, already in it) but honestly, if you are so quick to generalize to an entire country of people based on your very limited experience, I don't even want to think about what you would do/say with a client sitting in front of you who is from a different cultural background.

I also seemed to miss the OP's original post feeling crucified as a white heterosexual male due to all the sexual harassment trainings they had to attend. Sounds like the trainings have not been very effective and if this is how you felt after the trainings, then this is more than enough reason (at least for me) to keep having them (and more of them).

 

[isauk]

Hum1 - I think you would need to start again if you wanted to move back to the UK. I am currently studying the DClinPsy in the UK, and as far as I am aware, it's not possible to transfer credits or start midway through. Similar to the US I'm sure, it's a very competitive process - you can find out more on http://www.leeds.ac.uk/chpccp/

 

[hum1]

I never wanted this post to be about cultural differences or to foster the split and discussion between the reductionist old stereotypes of Americans vs Europeans. In fact, if there is one thing that I have learned from being here in America, and having traveled a bit to different places here, is how much cultural diversity exists. In fact the other day I was thinking how difficult it must be to create a national identity that is able to encompass all the existing diversity. However, when someone "lands" into a new country, usually we need to search for references that we use in order to evaluate where we are, make a map necessary for navigation, and then, because we are limited beings, we generalize all these findings to an entire nation. Not knowing can be too painful or anxiety provoking. Generalizing is wrong, but intrinsically human. In the end, it is the old metaphor of "Where are you looking at? The window or the mirror?", meaning is one capable of seeing others and the word for what they truly are or only at oneself reflected outside?

However, we cannot go from the position of "I know everything about America" to "I do not know anything about America". Some of the things that I described about living in American suburbia must be true and correspond to the reality. Other perhaps may only be a trait of my crazy neighbor, with limited generality. I do not think that Spanish people think that the "night air makes you sick", I believe that same Spanish people might think that. And some Italians. And some Norwegian. And even some American. How many people are we talking about here, one, or two that shared a house with you? How many people in Spain would need to hold that belief for one to be able to generalize to "The Spanish?" 70% of the population? 80%? 90%? And the same can be applied to the remaining crude overgeneralization. In that same stance, I could also say that people in America believe they were abducted by aliens, that Elvis is alive, that ghosts exist, etc. but this would be far from truth. Medievalism in Europe? The US is one of the countries in the world with the higher rates of belief in God and/or paranormal phenomena.

isauk, thank you for the link. I agree, and I think it would be too life draining to go all over the same process again of applying from scratch in the UK. The application here with the GRE, the transference of previous qualifications was long and hard. I think that I will finish my degree here and later decide whether or not to return to the UK.

 

[smalltownpsych]

You must have been a real hit with the Europeans, way to keep the "ignorant American" stereotypes in Europe alive and well. I am not even sure the purpose of your post - the OP made some generalizations from living in the OC burbs to all Americans so you decided to take it up a notch? I am not sure if you all are considering careers in this field (or, help us, already in it) but honestly, if you are so quick to generalize to an entire country of people based on your very limited experience, I don't even want to think about what you would do/say with a client sitting in front of you who is from a different cultural background.

I also seemed to miss the OP's original post feeling crucified as a white heterosexual male due to all the sexual harassment trainings they had to attend. Sounds like the trainings have not been very effective and if this is how you felt after the trainings, then this is more than enough reason (at least for me) to keep having them (and more of them).

The best part was the reported sample on oral hygiene. Maybe there was a bit of a biased sample and I would hate to see the European women who were willing to kiss him.

 

[occupationalguy]

The best part was the reported sample on oral hygiene. Maybe there was a bit of a biased sample and I would hate to see the European women who were willing to kiss him.

@smalltownpsych No problems with women. I also feel no reason to carry on with some flame war with you about how hot or not hot the women I am with are. Talk about dumb.

@entitlement My response was an honest response to his dumb post trashing America. I don't particularly like being told how nasty and awful my country is; I threw it right back in his court.

@hum1 Belief in God is a medievalism? I don't think so. I think there are rational reasons to believe in God. I don't think there are rational reasons not to shower or brush one's teeth regularly, or to think that an open window at night in the summertime will make you sick.

On a serious note: If you're going to dish out generalizations about America and Americans in a forum full of Americans you might get people who don't take kindly to it. However, I wish you the best of luck with your future be it here in the US or in your home country.

 

[smalltownpsych]

@smalltownpsych No problems with women. I also feel no reason to carry on with some flame war with you about how hot or not hot the women I am with are. Talk about dumb.

@entitlement My response was an honest response to his dumb post trashing America. I don't particularly like being told how nasty and awful my country is; I threw it right back in his court.

@hum1 Belief in God is a medievalism? I don't think so. I think there are rational reasons to believe in God. I don't think there are rational reasons not to shower or brush one's teeth regularly, or to think that an open window at night in the summertime will make you sick.

On a serious note: If you're going to dish out generalizations about America and Americans in a forum full of Americans you might get people who don't take kindly to it. However, I wish you the best of luck with your future be it here in the US or in your home country.

Was just having some fun with this and using it as a great teaching example about sampling error. Don't be so sensitive. Gosh!