Pursue work with PI further or leave out his LOR when applying?

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philosonista

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Hi, all --

I'm in one of those Undergraduate Student Research Fellowship programs currently, and I've come to realize something: my PI does not think well of me. I realize he's a PI who deals with high flying graduate students all the time, but I think his expectations of me are a bit unreasonable and he's grown to dislike me for it. I want to continue in the lab, but at the same time, I'm not sure if this relationship is salvageable for that, or even a good LOR from this summer alone.

Here's the short version. I had a sickness for a good few weeks that completely knocked me out. PI seemed very persistent that I still be active in the lab and I feel he resented me a bit for being sick for so long. Not a day went by when I didn't get an email or phone call from him asking what is up, even if I were to sick to get out of bed. Then, once I recovered enough, he put me to the task of developing a MATLAB program to analyze data. I have no background in programming. I'm a philosophy major with a few pre-req science courses behind me. So, trying to gain traction, I try my hand at a free MIT introductory course on MATLAB. I get through the very basics -- arrays, vectors, simple matrix manipulations, if/ifelse functions, calculator functions -- when he gives me the barrage of data I would have to extract and analyze. He seems annoyed with me when I ask him a series of questions to help me out.

I realize this is a new dip into grad school world and that grad school is notorious for making a person feel stupid. At the same time, I feel his expectations are unreasonably high and I'm ill equipped to stand up to them within the two weeks I have left. I want to learn MATLAB. I want to finish this program and do others for him during future breaks, but I don't want a bad LOR at the end of it all.

Would it look bad to not have an LOR from a summer PI? Should I press on and hope for a good LOR if I persist?

Opinions?

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Finish out the program, do your best and gauge at the end if things change. If your still on his bad side don't bother with the letter, just list the experience and get a letter somewhere else. I think it would look worse to not complete the program.
 
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Missing a few weeks out of an 8-week summer program is unacceptable. These positions are extremely competitive to obtain, and I assume you are receiving a handsome stipend and housing for the summer. You should not have selected this lab if you were uncomfortable with programming and this is a major component of lab's focus. I would step up your effort these last few weeks, and deliver all analysis that is requested. You also don't need to run to the PI for all your questions, be resourceful: talk to grad students, postdocs, and other labs in your research area. This is part of science.
 
I made a lot of effort to be there and do my work despite my sickness, but when started I fainted upon standing, on top of many other symptoms, it was kind of hard to get there, you know? I didn't choose to have mono and I didn't even let it get to me until the faintness came in. I fail to see how this is inexcusable. I asked my doctors if I should drop out several times.

I requested three other labs before my current one was left as an option. Before agreeing to me the PI spoke with me on the phone about his research and programming was never brought up. There was no indication -- from the viewpoint of someone that didn't doesn't know how data analysis is done -- that my work would involve programming from our conversation or his website. How was I supposed to know there wasn't just software one uses when my previous research experiences all used pre-made software?

I do ask other people, but my questions were regarding a program he had written in another language only he knows because he made the language.

Also, I didn't intend to give the impression that I was considering leaving. I was questioning continuing my work with him in the sense of asking to work for him during another school break.

I appreciate the advice, but I don't think I'm deserving of such harsh judgment.
 
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I have asked him if he would let me work during winter break for him as a way to reconcile the situation. Thankfully, I live only a mile away. I await his answer. If he says no, I would also take that to mean I should stay clear of asking for an LOR. If he says yes, I'll have to work hard to make sure the LOR is a good one.

This seems like a good solution to me as both a way to gauge his opinion of me and as a way to reconcile things.
 
From what you've said here, I think your best bet will be to finish out this program to the best of your ability and then move on/start over with a new lab.

I understand that mono is brutal, but you have to understand that in both the science and medical worlds, you are expected to work unless you are highly contagious or unconscious. From your perspective, you were too sick to work but from your PI's perspective you were just gone - likely for weeks longer than anyone else he has mentored. That doesn't look good and there isn't a way to make up for that bad impression in a few short weeks.

As far as the programming is concerned, in science it is very important to communicate clearly with your PI. When he assigned you the project, you should have made it clear that it was out of your depth so that he wasn't surprised later when you couldn't do the work. It's alright to admit that you don't know something and ask your PI if they could recommend resources to help you learn. My PIs have always been very receptive to that approach as long as I made it clear that I was willing to work and learn. Be aware that asking for resources is different than asking for a step-by-step lesson, though - the latter isn't an appropriate thing to ask of most PIs.

Unfortunately…I think you've probably burned this bridge. The upside is that you will need many more years of research experience before you will be competitive for MD/PhD programs. If your later research is substantial, I don't think anyone would even notice this missing LOR (I didn't submit LORs from either of my summer research experiences when I applied. No one cared). Good luck.
 
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Some/most schools require a LOR from every PI you have worked with. That being said, I know someone who did not submit a LOR from a PI who didn't like her. I don't think it was ever brought up in the interviews for her. However, I guess if you don't want to take a risk and decide to get a LOR from him, then I suggest you work extremely hard for the last 2 weeks and even offer to work after the program ends even if it's during the school year to make up for your sickness (seems to me you don't actually need to physically be in the lab to do the work). It seems to me that you think you're done once the program is officially over. No, you're not because you skipped a few weeks and essentially cheated him out of time and money. He has the right to not think well of you, because you skipped a few weeks due to sickness and, unfortunately, being sick is not a reasonable excuse for him. He may not even believe you and see you as a liar. In my opinion, if you decide to not work extra to make up for lost time, I think you are making a big mistake.

Lastly, put yourself in his situation. What would you think of yourself? Wouldn't the idea of slacker, potential liar, and unmotivated come to your mind?

Wow - this is a little harsh. PIs take on undergrads more as charity than to get a whole tonne of work out of them so I don't think you need to be going onto the deep end and state how this poster cheated their PI out of money. I will say though undergrads (and I was the same) often have a different understanding of hard work as compared to grad or med school people. Not saying this is the case for you - but a good rule of thumb is come in when your PI/post-doc does and stay till they go home, and don't screw around for 6 out of 9-10hrs a day you are there. If you are sitting there, better find something to learn/do or at worst read an article. The PI may be upset because of perception of slacking, misunderstanding of your abilities/role and issues with communication or it could be 50 other things.

Can't advise you what to do with regards to salvage but I can suggest you sit down with your PI and have a frank discussion stating you think s/he is upset with your performance and what you should do to improve. If you have been given tasks that you cannot complete or you are not prepared for - just state that you don't have the know how and that you decided to take this course. Ask him/her what you should do to complete the task (maybe they'll suggest you talk to someone or look at a protocol paper or something). Lastly, and this is how we all learn and a good lesson, next time try and match up in a lab that has resources to support you. I would avoid a lab that requires programming/MATLAB etc... if you have no experience. You can watch someone do genotyping or run a Western and do one yourself in 8 weeks - a little bit harder to get a grasp of MATLAB in the same time. Don't feel bad, I've learned things the hard way more times than not. Next summer is another opportunity.
 
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