Question about residency and specialisation aspects for EU-graduates non-EU citizens

[Helmutnl]

Hi,
I am a non-EU citizen in the fourth year of my medical studies and wish to continue my medical studies in Germany even if the accreditation of my studies was not that much, but I also wish to be able to move to another EU country after graduation from Germany, countries like Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Belgium or Austria but I don't know which of these would be the easiest or the most difficult for EU-graduates non-EU citizens.
Does someone know about the aspects of medical residency and specialty in each of these countries?

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[Helmutnl]

?

 

[shreypete]

Hey there, so you're studying in Germany? What don't you like about the place and if you don't mind me asking, why would you move out of Germany? Is it due to the low salaries/remuneration?

I believe Austria is out the question as is the Scandinavian block (who usually prefer specialists and not medical students from the EU.) I think Denmark might be possible as I read something about them being friendly (as long as you know Danish of course.)

Netherlands is pretty much closed too unless you are willing to take the medical recognition exam in Dutch.

Most of these EU countries are much more open to recruiting doctors with EU specialist degree rather than non EU citzens who graduated from the EU.

 

[Helmutnl]

Would Norway be the easiest among Scandinavian countries in the long term?
What about Flanders in Belgium?
So if I acquire a specialist degree in Germany, most likely I would lean towards radiology, would I have a better chance for the other countries?
Would a masters degree in medical sciences or molecular medicine for example improve my chances?

 

[shreypete]

The only thing that would realistically improve your chances of working in Norway is to obtain a specialist degree in Germany, and then try for Norway (depending on the job market.) Having an EU citizenship is the only thing that can help you the most. So you can even try working for a few years in Germany until you get your citizenship (shouldn't be so hard since most training programs in Germany are 5-6 years long) and then move to an EU country of your choice (as long as you have the required level of language skills.)

The Scandinavian block is unfortunately saturated in spots for specialty training. Having a masters degree in medical sciences or molecular medicine wouldn't help much.

Now if you are only bent on going to Norway for specialty training, you would have to do the following (but doing this might not guarantee anything):
1) Apply for recognition of your medical degree (which should be easy considering you have an EU degree.)
2) Be proficient in Norwegian and once you're good enough, take the Bergens exam
3) Take the medical exam (it's in Norwegian and is composed of written and oral parts)
4) Once you're successful, then you do a 1 year Turnus program (it's like an internship), at the end of which you have to take an exam.
5) Based on your results, you might or might not be eligible for training in the specialty of your choice. There is also a waiting line for the competitive specialties, so you might have to wait for sometime (could be a year or 3 years) before you get in.

Like I said, doing all of the above might not guarantee you a spot at all either. It's a lot like non-EU students wanting to work in the UK (PLAB doesn't guarantee anything either.)

 

[Helmutnl]

Hi..
Thanks for help.
So my chances are a lot better if I obtain the specialty training in Germany and possibly also the long term residence permit or even the German citizenship in order to move to another EU country of the ones I mentioned.
Also, what are the prospects for working in Denmark?
I've read once that in the long term there would be many opportunities for radiologists, oncologists and also possibly psychiatrists in Denmark.
Also, what about Flanders in Belgium?

 

[shreypete]

I'm not too sure about Denmark but the one think I know is that, like the rest of the Scandinavian block, they are in need of specialists. So I would asusme the job market for EU trained specialists is pretty good.

With the Flanders part of Belgium, you have to go through a slightly similar procedure:
1) Get your medical degree recognized
2) Have a decent proficiency of Dutch (minimum Level5/B2)
3) Apply to the local counsel - Orde van geneesheren
4) Once accepted, you will have to do a 3 month internship at one of the Flemish hospitals.
5) At the end of the 3 months, you take a competitive exam (and I mean it's really competitive as the salaries in Belgium are relatively high) in order to get into the specialty of your choice (I believe this exam has both written and oral components.)

 

[Helmutnl]

Hi, thanks.
So ultimately it is best that I obtain the specialty in Germany.
What about The Netherlands? I've heard that although their salaries for doctors are among the highest in Europe maybe only second to Switzerland, but it has very limited spots for new doctors..

 

[shreypete]

I think it best you stick to Germany as that is the most accessible out of the EU countries.

The Netherlands is pretty competitive as well. Slightly similar to the UK and Switzerland. You have to enroll in the big register and in order to do that, being an EU citizen and having an EU degree is a requirement. Otherwise, you would need to take an exam (composed of 3 parts) and the passing rate for that exam (taken in Dutch) is very very low (something like 7-10%).

So

 

[Helmutnl]

Hi.
The exam you mentioned in The Netherlands being taken in Dutch and composed of 3 parts, is it only for those who want to apply for specialty training in The Netherlands without the EU citizenship or does it also apply for Non-EU doctors with an EU specialist degree?

 

[shreypete]

No, it doesn't apply for non-EU doctors with an EU specialist degree. Just the ones who want to pursue specialty training in the Netherlands.

 

[Helmutnl]

Hi.
If I first would like to specialize radiology in Germany, would there be a chance to work at public hospitals and earn well, or should a radiologist inevitably work at a private clinic?

 

[shreypete]

Well to start with, where are you from or rather where did you go to medical school?

Secondly, if you haven't studied in Germany, getting into a public hospital is next to impossible. Perhaps if you have a good research track record, an impressive CV and excellent language skills (I mean C2+), you may have a chance but even then, it's a gamble as these hospitals usually hire German medical graduates. These hospitals are also competitive for German medical graduates, so imagine IMGs being thrown into the mix. Hardly leaves any spots to hire IMGs.

You won't certainly work in a private clinic. It might be in local rural hospitals, clinics, health centers, and medical rehabilitation centers. Now I don't know how exactly does it work for Radiology but in fields like Surgery, where you have to complete a certain set of procedures before you sit your specialty training exam (Facharztprufung), you have to rotate through different hospitals in the country as you won't be able to do all procedures in one small rural hospital (as opposed to doing it in an academic hospital, where you see tons of cases.) This is the reason why obtaining specialty training qualification is not really "fixed" in time, meaning it can take 5 or 6 or 7 or more years. It all depends on the kind of mentor you get during your training. You could get lucky or very unlucky.

So you could try getting into an academic hospital with some of the following qualifications below:

1) having a PhD after medical school or having a strong research background (as most academic hospitals, must like elsewhere, want to hire students interested in pursuing both research and medical training)
2) language skills (C2+; remember the normal level required of foreign doctors is B2, so getting to C2 is a huge jump)
3) doing some medical attachments/rotations in academic hospitals
4) having contacts in academic hospitals

 

[Helmutnl]

Hi.
I am a medical student in my fourth year and come from a non-EU country, but I am working on continuing my medical studies in Germany, even if that required starting from scratch.
But first I would need to improve my German until C2 level so that I have a good chance applying for a German medical school and also I need to get my previous studies accredited at the Landesprüfungsamt Düsseldorf.
So my questions regarding specializing in Germany or other EU countries are all within the assumption that I have graduated in medicine in Germany.
Do you think that radiology in Germany is only bound to private clinics or that doctors should be owners of radiology devices or would a graduate from a German medical school be able to work as a radiologist at a German public hospital?

 

[shreypete]

Well, if you graduate from a medical school in Germany, then you can certainly try getting into academic hospitals so long as you have good grades and do research early in medical school. That shouldn't be a problem. The problem only arises for non-EU citizens with non-EU medical degrees as they have it pretty hard (in terms of getting into academic hospitals.)

To my knowledge, you will have to redo medical school as Germany does not accept transfers from other countries and does not recognized medical schools from non-EU countries (unless may be if it's from the US or Australia but I'm not even sure about that.)

 

[GermanyDoc2015]

Hi, I am working as a Radiologist in Germany and I can tell, that there are a lot of foreign Radiologists working in Germany since we have a growing lack of physicians. As long as you have at least B2 German language certificate, better would even be C1, you have some chances to find a job here. The problem is, that it is very difficult to get your medical lizense recognised in Germany as being equal to a german one. The best way would be to apply at a german clinic for a job as a guest doctor : Gastarzt. Especially hospitals far from big cities are looking for such a Gastarzt. If they take you, you can work there for two years, unfortunately often without a salary. During this time you can have an equivalency check of your medical license or study for the exam you will have to take to get your lizense recognised. For more information see also http://www.praktischarzt.de/blog/international/become-a-doctor-in-germany/

 

[clueless doc]

hi im a indian doctor . I want to do pg in germany. can someone guide me. is it very tough to get into?

 

[clueless doc]

hi im a indian doctor . I want to do pg in germany. can someone guide me. is it very tough to get into?

hi im a indian doctor. i want to do pg in germany. can someone guide me? [email protected]

 

[ali ahmed]

Hi,
I am a non-EU citizen in the fourth year of my medical studies and wish to continue my medical studies in Germany even if the accreditation of my studies was not that much, but I also wish to be able to move to another EU country after graduation from Germany, countries like Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Belgium or Austria but I don't know which of these would be the easiest or the most difficult for EU-graduates non-EU citizens.
Does someone know about the aspects of medical residency and specialty in each of these countries?

So did you finally go there(scandinavian countries)?i am medical graduate from Romania.
Thanks a lot and have a nice day.

 

[Helmutnl]

So did you finally go there(scandinavian countries)?i am medical graduate from Romania.
Thanks a lot and have a nice day.

Hi!
LOL, nope, I'll have to begin my medical studies in Germany from scratch.
But hopefully it will maximize my chances for Scandinavia/ the Netherlands later.

 

[ali ahmed]

how hard is it to enter into specialization in Germany after learning language for a medical graduate from Romania.
Thanks a lot.

 

[A.younes]

how hard is it to enter into specialization in Germany after learning language for a medical graduate from Romania.
Thanks a lot.

Since you are Eu graduater only you have to get the language skills (b2 ..or C1 )
And there is a medical language exame

 

[Oughon]

Hi,

I connect to question. Can anyone tell me if a degree in English b2 from Polish universities is taken into account in England? He wants to take an internship in Manchester. Thanku you for help.