Questions on URM and ORM

[Crayola227]

So in the United States of America are whites disadvantaged compared to asians? Based on your logic, that's what the acceptance statistics indicate.

Nope. Not a zero sum game.

I don't know where you got that conclusion from what I said.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

Every single day we have these threads. Every single day. And Nooom must be a troll because he came to rant his spiel on a thread I posted on the URM section asking for a virtual group hug after feeling depressed over these constant soul-sucking anti-URM threads.

Which by the way completely ignore the fact that URM includes Native Americans and Hispanics. It's always Black or White (and now Asian I guess) in this country.

And I find it very amusing that he calls others racist. He's so quick to throw around that word without doing some serious soul-searching and introspection.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

Nooom, I'm going to try to appeal to you on common ground, since you quoted scripture.

"A new command I give to you: Love one another, as I have loved you." John 13:34

Actually I think he ignored me since I made rational counterpoints to his arguments in the other thread but as I am technically challenged and relatively new to SDN, I don't understand why I can still see his posts.

 

[Mad Jack]

So in the United States of America are whites disadvantaged compared to asians? Based on your logic, that's what the acceptance statistics indicate.

I already addressed this

 

[LuluLovesMe]

I already addressed this

Can you link me the data you refer to so I can see it?

 

[Crayola227]

Who cares? Let's just admit the best URM apps we can find until they aren't URM anymore.

The ORM and others, like the URMs, will have to continue doing the best they can, life is unfair, and use whatever advantages they have in life to get by.

If I had never gone to med school because I was not accepted, I likely would have forever felt shortchanged by TPTB (if I wasn't wondering what was wrong with my app) because I would have wondered what could be.

Now, I realize it is a job, and there are other equalling fullfilling jobs I have always had access to.

My remembered foresight before med school and my hindsight after makes me believe that social justice is better served with every URM that qualifies that is accepted than any other person who is not accepted.

Turns out not getting admitted to medical school might be more of a individual blessing than you think.

This isn't about what good for the applicant, but society as a whole. In general, no one gives a **** if you think it's fair if your dreams are crushed by adcom and they make someone else's day. They're not magic fairy godmothers waving wands granting wishes like Santa for good behavior, and this isn't a perfect meritocracy.

It just makes me so ****ing mad. This mentality is like the people standing on a crowded bus glaring at the the guy in a wheelchair for having a seat.

 

[Mad Jack]

Can you link me the data you refer to so I can see it?

We did this in another thread previously, I'm on my phone and not willing to search for it. Basically, the vast majority of the Asian population is clustered in ten states, depriving them of access to the state schools of the 40 remaining states, as well as the schools of PR and HBCUs.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Why do we feed these trolls ?

 

[Cavs5284]

Due to recent events that involve the supreme court decision on affirmative action as well as the recent thread going on about asians in admissions, I would like to bump this thread to specifically focus on question 1.

Just to jumpstart the conversation, I'll ask a few questions related to the topic:

Are recent black immigrants from Africa/Caribbean ORM?

Do recent immigrants from Africa/Caribbean families get a URM boost (i.e. get in with lower stats)?

Is there a stat breakdown between African Americans, African, and Caribbean that is made available to the public?

Are applicants from African/Caribbean families penalized for checking African American in the same way that white North Africans are (Egyptians, etc.) if it is ever found out?

Do Adcoms hold applicants from African/Caribbean families to the same standards as those from African American families, despite lower numbers in the patient population?

Do applicants from African/Caribbean families potentially take seats at the expense of African american applicants to medical schools as has been alleged of many undergraduate institutions (Harvard most notably)?

Disclaimer: I really do want a civil discussion on this and am not trolling. The recent thread on Asians in admissions has been encouraging because it has been civil overall, hence the reason for bumping this thread.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I should really get back to studying...

 

[Lost in Translation]

It seems that people on here believe that URM = compensation for lower grades.

From what I understand, URM "recruitment" is to get URMs into medicine. Now, if the URM applicants have a lower average applicant score, then that's too bad. It's not that the URM with the highest scores among other URMs but has lower scores than the average ORM is better than said ORM, it's that the school wants the URM so they'll take them, lower scores and all. In other words, they're not saying, "Oh, he's URM, that explains why he only has a 3.3 GPA and 29 MCAT." They're saying, "Oh, he's URM, we need more of those. Are there other URMs with higher scores? No? Okay, he's it."

I could be wrong.

 

[deleted393595]

Due to recent events that involve the supreme court decision on affirmative action as well as the recent thread going on about asians in admissions, I would like to bump this thread to specifically focus on question 1.

Just to jumpstart the conversation, I'll ask a few questions related to the topic:

Are recent black immigrants from Africa/Caribbean ORM?

Do recent immigrants from Africa/Caribbean families get a URM boost (i.e. get in with lower stats)?

Is there a stat breakdown between African Americans, African, and Caribbean that is made available to the public?

Are applicants from African/Caribbean families penalized for checking African American in the same way that white North Africans are (Egyptians, etc.) if it is ever found out?

Do Adcoms hold applicants from African/Caribbean families to the same standards as those from African American families, despite lower numbers in the patient population?

Do applicants from African/Caribbean families potentially take seats at the expense of African american applicants to medical schools as has been alleged of many undergraduate institutions (Harvard most notably)?

Disclaimer: I really do want a civil discussion on this and am not trolling. The recent thread on Asians in admissions has been encouraging because it has been civil overall, hence the reason for bumping this thread.

Those are some good questions

 

[Oncie]

Due to recent events that involve the supreme court decision on affirmative action as well as the recent thread going on about asians in admissions, I would like to bump this thread to specifically focus on question 1.

Just to jumpstart the conversation, I'll ask a few questions related to the topic:

Are recent black immigrants from Africa/Caribbean ORM?

Do recent immigrants from Africa/Caribbean families get a URM boost (i.e. get in with lower stats)?

Is there a stat breakdown between African Americans, African, and Caribbean that is made available to the public?

Are applicants from African/Caribbean families penalized for checking African American in the same way that white North Africans are (Egyptians, etc.) if it is ever found out?

Do Adcoms hold applicants from African/Caribbean families to the same standards as those from African American families, despite lower numbers in the patient population?

Do applicants from African/Caribbean families potentially take seats at the expense of African american applicants to medical schools as has been alleged of many undergraduate institutions (Harvard most notably)?

Disclaimer: I really do want a civil discussion on this and am not trolling. The recent thread on Asians in admissions has been encouraging because it has been civil overall, hence the reason for bumping this thread.

Those are some stupid ass questions.

 

[Lawpy]

Those are some good questions

Those are some stupid ass questions.

 

[Womb Raider]

Do applicants from African/Caribbean families potentially take seats at the expense of African american applicants to medical schools as has been alleged of many undergraduate institutions (Harvard most notably)?

Anecdotally, a very significant portion of the Blacks in my class are from Africa.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Those are some maybe-ass questions.

 

[ZedsDed]

Due to recent events that involve the supreme court decision on affirmative action as well as the recent thread going on about asians in admissions, I would like to bump this thread to specifically focus on question 1.

Just to jumpstart the conversation, I'll ask a few questions related to the topic:

Are recent black immigrants from Africa/Caribbean ORM?

Do recent immigrants from Africa/Caribbean families get a URM boost (i.e. get in with lower stats)?

Is there a stat breakdown between African Americans, African, and Caribbean that is made available to the public?

Are applicants from African/Caribbean families penalized for checking African American in the same way that white North Africans are (Egyptians, etc.) if it is ever found out?

Do Adcoms hold applicants from African/Caribbean families to the same standards as those from African American families, despite lower numbers in the patient population?

Do applicants from African/Caribbean families potentially take seats at the expense of African american applicants to medical schools as has been alleged of many undergraduate institutions (Harvard most notably)?

Disclaimer: I really do want a civil discussion on this and am not trolling. The recent thread on Asians in admissions has been encouraging because it has been civil overall, hence the reason for bumping this thread.

@gyngyn might know. I suspect that as long as they are black, they still get the boost.

 

[Cavs5284]

@gyngyn might know. I suspect that as long as they are black, they still get the boost.

I don't think it's as straightforward as that but is probably the case more often than not.

This seems inconsistent with school missions that profess support for affirmative action for URM populations as opposed to affirmative action for diversity. In fact, if the boost is there for African/Caribbean applicants, that seems to hurt the mission of attracting candidates from URM populations if African/Caribbean are, in fact, overrepresented in medicine as I suspect they are.

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn might know. I suspect that as long as they are black, they still get the boost.

We would all like to have sufficient African American applicants who understand and identify with the people who need their care. There are so few non-immigrants that a supplement of immigrant African-Americans is acceptable as long as they identify with the target population an have evidence of commitment to service.

 

[dreamadream]

I've seen URM threads hundreds of times. African descendants are URM's. You don't have to check off URM on your med school app if you don't please too. I wouldn't recommend doing it if your family has a background of decent income...at least $20000/year> for each parent. This also depends on how big your family is. Also if you're not an "inner city" like I was...don't check it off.

 

[Cavs5284]

I've seen URM threads hundreds of times. African descendants are URM's. You don't have to check off URM on your med school app if you don't please too. I wouldn't recommend doing it if your family has a background of decent income...at least $20000/year> for each parent. This also depends on how big your family is. Also if you're not an "inner city" like I was...don't check it off.

I find that highly unlikely seeing as black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean make up a small fraction of the United States population. The story is different with African Americans whose families have been in the United States since the Jim Crow era and slavery and carry a legacy with negative social consequences that carry to present day.

This discussion is focusing on potential misdirected assistance given to the former at the possible expense of the latter, not an anti-URM thread.

 

[Cavs5284]

We would all like to have sufficient African American applicants who understand and identify with the people who need their care. There are so few non-immigrants that a supplement of immigrant African-Americans is acceptable as long as they identify with the target population an have evidence of commitment to service.

Hypothetically then, would an applicant from a black immigrant background with ties serving in underserved African American communities have an advantage over, say, a hispanic student with ties to serving underserved African American communities. Both are from different cultures than the communities that they have served but (as it seems) the immigrant black applicant would be ORM (I could be wrong on this) and the hispanic applicant is URM.

In the same scenario, who would be better off: immigrant African or white applicant both with ties to serving the same communities.

Lastly, African immigrant with ties to underserved or African American with no ties and middle class SES.

I know the calculus of admissions is much more complicated than this, but seeing how these factors are valued would be very informative because I seldom hear them discussed.

 

[dreamadream]

I find that highly unlikely seeing as black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean make up a small fraction of the United States population. The story is different with African Americans whose families have been in the United States since the Jim Crow era and slavery and carry a legacy with negative social consequences that carry to present day.

This discussion is focusing on potential misdirected assistance given to the former at the possible expense of the latter, not an anti-URM thread.

I'm about confused here, what's the question? Are black immigrants URM's? If they are citizens of the US, with an education background in the states then I believe you can be considered a URM if and only if you've had economic disadvantages blah blah blah. But immigrants can't be considered into med school unless they have educational backgrounds here(undergrad), citizenship/visa

 

[gyngyn]

Hypothetically then, would an applicant from a black immigrant background with ties serving in underserved African American communities have an advantage over, say, a hispanic student with ties to serving underserved African American communities. Both are from different cultures than the communities that they have served but (as it seems) the immigrant black applicant would be ORM (I could be wrong on this) and the hispanic applicant is URM.

In the same scenario, who would be better off: immigrant African or white applicant both with ties to serving the same communities.

Lastly, African immigrant with ties to underserved or African American with no ties and middle class SES.

I know the calculus of admissions is much more complicated than this, but seeing how these factors are valued would be very informative because I seldom hear them discussed.

Applicants are not evaluated this way. A commitment to service speaks volumes, though.

 

[deleted393595]

What if AA was restricted to only African-American or Latino individuals from improverished SES backgrounds?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Hypothetically then, would an applicant from a black immigrant background with ties serving in underserved African American communities have an advantage over, say, a hispanic student with ties to serving underserved African American communities. Both are from different cultures than the communities that they have served but (as it seems) the immigrant black applicant would be ORM (I could be wrong on this) and the hispanic applicant is URM.

In the same scenario, who would be better off: immigrant African or white applicant both with ties to serving the same communities.

Lastly, African immigrant with ties to underserved or African American with no ties and middle class SES.

I know the calculus of admissions is much more complicated than this, but seeing how these factors are valued would be very informative because I seldom hear them discussed.

Not all Hispanics are considered URM. I'm pretty sure the designation only applies to Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, and perhaps Central Americans. However, it's possible that other Hispanics may be given a boost due to a school's need for Spanish-speaking students and/or those who have demonstrated a commitment to underserved Latino populations.

 

[Gandyy]

What if AA was restricted to only African-American or Latino individuals from improverished SES backgrounds?

If that happened, these URM threads might actually stop.

 

[Cavs5284]

I'm about confused here, what's the question? Are black immigrants URM's? If they are citizens of the US, with an education background in the states then I believe you can be considered a URM if and only if you've had economic disadvantages blah blah blah. But immigrants can't be considered into med school unless they have educational backgrounds here(undergrad), citizenship/visa

Firstly, URM= Underrepresented in medicine. A wealthy African American is still considered URM because there are so few African Americans in medicine.

Secondly, I am making a distinction between applicants coming from families coming recently from Africa and the Caribbean which can include naturalized citizens or first and second generation natural born American citizens. Applicants with an immigrant background and those from families that have been in the United States for generations come from very different cultures and if they are lumped together, as I suspect, it would be at a great cost to African Americans who are vastly underrepresented in medicine.

 

[deleted393595]

Firstly, URM= Underrepresented in medicine. A wealthy African American is still considered URM because there are so few African Americans in medicine.

And how likely is a kid from a well-off background to go back and serve his or her community?

 

[Cavs5284]

Not all Hispanics are considered URM. I'm pretty sure the designation only applies to Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, and perhaps Central Americans. However, it's possible that other Hispanics may be given a boost due to a school's need for Spanish-speaking students and/or those who have demonstrated a commitment to underserved Latino populations.

Good point. For the purpose of my hypothetical, I meant URM Latino but I guess the same issues with African Americans/immigrant African Americans can be seen with URM/non-URM hispanics. Many of the same types of questions can be asked.

 

[gyngyn]

Secondly, I am making a distinction between applicants coming from families coming recently from Africa and the Caribbean which can include naturalized citizens or first and second generation natural born American citizens. Applicants with an immigrant background and those from families that have been in the United States for generations come from very different cultures and if they are lumped together, as I suspect, it would be at a great cost to African Americans who are vastly underrepresented in medicine.

If they were displacing them (and had no commitment to service), you would have a point. They are not.

 

[Cavs5284]

And how likely is a kid from a well-off background to go back and serve his or her community?

I don't actually know the answer. The intuitive answer is not likely, but is it actually the case? I don't know.

The answer is likely multifactorial and is likely influenced by geographical location, step 1 scores, and other factors.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

@Cavs5284 since you asked this same question - starting this thread in September, why don't you just PM the adcoms on SDN your stats and ask if you being the son of wealthy Nigerian/Trinidadian (or wherever African/Caribbean) doctor immigrants will help or hurt your chances of acceptance to the schools you desire?

I am saying this as civilly as possible.

 

[Cavs5284]

Applicants are not evaluated this way. A commitment to service speaks volumes, though.

Aren't waitlist candidates evaluated or ranked in this manner? Competing with others on the waitlist.

If they were displacing them (and had no commitment to service), you would have a point. They are not.

Well, if true, than that is good news. At least at the undergraduate level where affirmative action is meant to increase diversity for its educational benefits, it certainly seems like it is the case that African Americans are getting nudged out: http://magazine.good.is/articles/ivy-league-fooled-how-america-s-top-colleges-avoid-real-diversity

 

[Cavs5284]

@Cavs5284 since you asked this same question - starting this thread in September, why don't you just PM the adcoms on SDN your stats and ask if you being the son of wealthy Nigerian/Trinidadian (or wherever African/Caribbean) doctor immigrants will help or hurt your chances of acceptance to the schools you desire?

I am saying this as civilly as possible.

Firstly, I'm latino and already in medical school and volunteer in admissions (didn't update my status/ have been away from SDN for a while due to course load). No need to imply any ad hominem slights or attempt to stifle discussion. Also, this discussion is not focused on SES, although it can be tangentially related.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

I think URMs should be:

1. African-Americans duh we all came from Africa, but some of us didn't have a choice in emigrating however many hundreds of years ago.
2. Native Americans and indigenous aboriginal foreigners (I thinking from Canada & Australia)
3. Hispanics and Latinos - even the undocumented ones
4. Emancipated minors/wards of the state/foster children - basically anyone who really had a sucky childhood but somehow managed to make it to the application process
5. Asian-Americans who had to take care of their families. Like second generation...or third generation...Some Asians are traditionally more well-off than others...it's sad that Asians are all lumped in. There are a LOT of different countries....
6. Poor people of all races who are proven and investigated not to be scamming the system
7. Orphaned adults without trust funds or families.
8. Nontrads with families and really really menial crappy jobs. Like men with 12 kids and a stay-at-home wife because of religious reasons...who unlike the Duggars can't bankroll their family. Also single mothers.
9. Men freed from Death Row through the innocence project - and other incarcerated citizens (like why don't we lock up heroin addicts? no, they get rehab, but weed smokers get jail, hmmm)
10. LGBTQII
11. Formerly sexually trafficked women, intimate partner violence survivors, and childhood runaway survivors and anyone who grew up in or escaped a cult.

That's all I can think of right now...but alas, I don't yet rule the world nor do I have any say in the med school admissions process. But that would make for more diverse physician workforce if they got the miraculous URM boost for having lower MCATs/GPAs.

 

[Womb Raider]

I think URMs should be:

Thank God you're not in charge..

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

OP, I really hope you're not trying to come to your own opinion about your position in admissions and your stance on diversity based on people's anonymous comments on SDN. I'm all for open discussion, I just feel the URM thing is a bit played out on here.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

@Womb Raider I do thank God everyday. For everything He has blessed me with and for the compassion and grace and kindness to care about others. And also for not being born or risen to be in a position of power. Some days I want to nuke this world to get rid of the selfish idiots who run it.

 

[Cavs5284]

OP, I really hope you're not trying to come to your own opinion about diversity admissions through opinions placed anonymously on SDN. I'm all for open discussion, I just feel the URM thing is a bit played out on here.

I'm not on the admissions committee, I interview candidates. My opinions on affirmative action/ URM admissions do not factor into my evaluations since my sole task is to systematically evaluate how such candidates do with the questions I ask them. I'm not one to mess with the candidates' futures based on sdn and politics.

My only purpose with this thread are to learn more about a small aspect of the affirmative action debate I rarely hear about. I get that SDN always has one URM or two URM threads active but I rarely hear about how admissions views non-URM black applicants or non-URM latinos (although with latinos Spanish skills are valued and are a complicating factor in comparing the two). Also, I think this discussion is very timely due to the Supreme court case.

 

[Mad Jack]

So in the United States of America are whites disadvantaged compared to asians? Based on your logic, that's what the acceptance statistics indicate.

Nah, we're about equal. Big deference is white people live everywhere, Asians tend to have communities that are clustered in a small number of states. This leads to wired having it easier than Asians, because state schools and geographically preferential admissions.

 

[Mad Jack]

@Womb Raider I do thank God everyday. For everything He has blessed me with and for the compassion and grace and kindness to care about others. And also for not being born or risen to be in a position of power. Some days I want to nuke this world to get rid of the selfish idiots who run it.

One does not turn the other cheek with nuclear weapons.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

Notice I said I thank God everyday for not granting me the power to own or operate nukes @Mad Jack

God knew what he was doing when He made me. Flaws and all.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

One does not turn the other cheek with nuclear weapons.

In rare cases, nukes are necessary.

It's the only way to be sure

 

[AirplaneFruit]

I haven't been paying much attention to this thread but is one of the arguments for boosting URM admissions that they are more likely to choose to serve underserved populations?

Let me play devil's advocate...

Does this make sense?:

Similar to high school and undergraduate college trends, URMs will have lower class ranks and lower STEP scores in medical school. I'm not sure if there's a study on this based on race.

Lower class ranks / lower STEP scores correlate to less desirable specialties/matches/jobs. (blah blah but muh all specialties are good!!!1. no thanks, there are clearly some that are more desirable than others).

These less desirable specialties/matches/jobs offers deal more with underserved populations than more desirable specialties/matches/jobs deal with underserved populations.

Therefore, URMs are more likely to work with underserved populations simply because their performance on average is "worse" (again, "what is worse? even muh lowest class rank is doktur!!!hurr!!") than those of other groups not because they for some reason have more compassion etc. etc.

 

[Womb Raider]

I haven't been paying much attention to this thread but is one of the arguments for boosting URM admissions that they are more likely to choose to serve underserved populations?

Let me play devil's advocate...

Does this make sense?:

Similar to high school and undergraduate college trends, URMs will have lower class ranks and lower STEP scores in medical school. I'm not sure if there's a study on this based on race.

Lower class ranks / lower STEP scores correlate to less desirable specialties/matches/jobs. (blah blah but muh all specialties are good!!!1. no thanks, there are clearly some that are more desirable than others).

These less desirable specialties/matches/jobs offers deal more with underserved populations than more desirable specialties/matches/jobs deal with underserved populations.

Therefore, URMs are more likely to work with underserved populations simply because their performance on average is "worse" (again, "what is worse? even muh lowest class rank is doktur!!!hurr!!") than those of other groups not because they for some reason have more compassion etc. etc.

This is a valid concern. Many would argue the reason why minorities end up helping the underserved is irrelevant, however, just as long as these populations are receiving care.

 

[AirplaneFruit]

This is a valid concern. Many would argue the reason why minorities end up helping the underserved is irrelevant, however, just as long as these populations are receiving care.

But then hypothetically if all URMs were swapped out for "extra" whites the whites would end up working with the underserved populations anyways...

 

[Med Ed]

I haven't been paying much attention to this thread but is one of the arguments for boosting URM admissions that they are more likely to choose to serve underserved populations?

Let me play devil's advocate...

Does this make sense?:

Similar to high school and undergraduate college trends, URMs will have lower class ranks and lower STEP scores in medical school. I'm not sure if there's a study on this based on race.

Lower class ranks / lower STEP scores correlate to less desirable specialties/matches/jobs. (blah blah but muh all specialties are good!!!1. no thanks, there are clearly some that are more desirable than others).

These less desirable specialties/matches/jobs offers deal more with underserved populations than more desirable specialties/matches/jobs deal with underserved populations.

Therefore, URMs are more likely to work with underserved populations simply because their performance on average is "worse" (again, "what is worse? even muh lowest class rank is doktur!!!hurr!!") than those of other groups not because they for some reason have more compassion etc. etc.

I do not buy this argument, although I have hard data to back up my opinion. The less desirable specialties you speak of could be summarized as primary care fields: FM, peds, and general IM. They are less competitive to get into because of a mixture of money and respect, but the huge upside to all of them is that you can get a job practically anywhere. Hence, the most compelling motive that I know of to take a job in an underserved area is the simple desire to work with underserved populations.

That said, I have known a couple of FMG's who worked in undesirable locations to assist with their chances of permanent residency, and some docs in underserved areas are on loan forgiveness programs, although I believe their numbers are relatively small.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I haven't been paying much attention to this thread but is one of the arguments for boosting URM admissions that they are more likely to choose to serve underserved populations?

Let me play devil's advocate...

Does this make sense?:

Similar to high school and undergraduate college trends, URMs will have lower class ranks and lower STEP scores in medical school. I'm not sure if there's a study on this based on race.

Lower class ranks / lower STEP scores correlate to less desirable specialties/matches/jobs. (blah blah but muh all specialties are good!!!1. no thanks, there are clearly some that are more desirable than others).

These less desirable specialties/matches/jobs offers deal more with underserved populations than more desirable specialties/matches/jobs deal with underserved populations.

Therefore, URMs are more likely to work with underserved populations simply because their performance on average is "worse" (again, "what is worse? even muh lowest class rank is doktur!!!hurr!!") than those of other groups not because they for some reason have more compassion etc. etc.

Keep in mind that the lower median stats of the PR schools and HBCUs skew the data for URMs. And it's my understanding that such schools (well at least the HBCUs) are more committed to primary care.

On the other hand, I don't think it's uncommon for an African-American student with a 3.7 and a 29 mcat to end up at a top school and match into a competitive surgery program.

 

[Goro]

To reiterate what the wise gyngyn has already said, it's NOT a zero sum game. Both candidates would be accepted. We don't interview two people for one seat.

Hypothetically then, would an applicant from a black immigrant background with ties serving in underserved African American communities have an advantage over, say, a hispanic student with ties to serving underserved African American communities. Both are from different cultures than the communities that they have served but (as it seems) the immigrant black applicant would be ORM (I could be wrong on this) and the hispanic applicant is URM.

In the same scenario, who would be better off: immigrant African or white applicant both with ties to serving the same communities.

Lastly, African immigrant with ties to underserved or African American with no ties and middle class SES.

I know the calculus of admissions is much more complicated than this, but seeing how these factors are valued would be very informative because I seldom hear them discussed.