Quit venture capital and become an EM MD?

[VCtoMD]

Greetings! I am 30, single, male. I did four years of investment banking, 3.5 years of VC/PE work. Almost 8 years out of undergrad, never got a masters, etc. Have a great GPA and undergrad leadership experience.

The short: I'm thinking of making a career change and becoming an EM MD. Advice, thoughts, experiences of those that have done a similar career change, etc? Am I crazy for being 30 and wanting to pursue this?

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The long story -

I recently (~7 months ago) met someone who is about to finish residency in EM. After talking with her about her job, I've been getting borderline obsessed with the idea of becoming an EM doctor and have been indulging in any material on the job. I have no patient experience, but am currently trying to figure out how to get some while still keeping my current job, to "test the waters" and see if I like being in the hospital and working with patients. I'd have to do a post-bacc, which would mean I wouldn't start med school until 32, and I would graduate residency at 40 (if all went to plan).

I'm at the point at my current job where I'm ready to move on, since my firm's too small to move up in it. I've been getting disenchanted and bored with my job and industry - it's abstract and often times I feel like I haven't done anything meaningful during the day, other than play around with Excel and bull**** with some CEOs about their (often times boring) businesses. I'm not learning much or building my skills. Saving people's lives or at least helping them directly seems like it would be an incredible way to spend my time. I also think I'd love the challenge and discipline of going through med school. I really loved college and had a demanding course load.

The thought of pursuing a career in medicine makes me feel very excited, while the thought of going along with my current career does not sound exciting to me.

On the flip-side, the thought that I am 30 keeps going through my head, and I don't want to live my 30s as being poor and having no free time while in med school - I'd like to find a life companion and start a family during my 30s, and I'm concerned this would be very hard in med school/residency.

Would love to hear your thoughts, advice, anyone who made a similar career transition, personal stories, etc. THANKS!!

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[DrMikeP]

It's not too late. Do a lot of reading on SDN and elsewhere to decide if it is right for you and figure out what you need to do to reach the goal. Starting a family during med school is nuts and many potential mates with good sense might run the other direction, so you might have to make a choice. EM is not as often about saving lives as TV suggests, remember the EMD is where many low income individuals go for their regular healthcare (EtOH, colds, pneumonia, lacerations, indigestion, MVC with minor injury being checked out, etc). You potentially could go days in the right ED and not see a patient with a critical life threatening injury, but then some are swamped with OD's, stabbings, etc.

Perhaps (given the comment about not wanting to be poor and no free time) also find a good psychologist to discuss issues of possible burn-out or figure out what is driving this desire to change careers, as that might would answer the "crazy" part. Plan on no free time in med school, so when it happens you're happy.

 

[VCtoMD]

It's not too late. Do a lot of reading on SDN and elsewhere to decide if it is right for you and figure out what you need to do to reach the goal. Starting a family during med school is nuts and many potential mates with good sense might run the other direction, so you might have to make a choice. EM is not as often about saving lives as TV suggests, remember the EMD is where many low income individuals go for their regular healthcare (EtOH, colds, pneumonia, lacerations, indigestion, MVC with minor injury being checked out, etc). You potentially could go days in the right ED and not see a patient with a critical life threatening injury, but then some are swamped with OD's, stabbings, etc.

Perhaps (given the comment about not wanting to be poor and no free time) also find a good psychologist to discuss issues of possible burn-out or figure out what is driving this desire to change careers, as that might would answer the "crazy" part. Plan on no free time in med school, so when it happens you're happy.

Thanks DrMikeP. I don't mind the no free time - I actually am attracted to highly demanding positions and usually excel in them (for instance, investment banking was working all day and night constantly). It's more the trade-off that I am contemplating. 30s are typically a time when people get more senior in current occupations, start a family, etc. Would I be sacrificing these things is more my question. Seems like it would be highly probable.

 

[DrMikeP]

Thanks DrMikeP. I don't mind the no free time - I actually am attracted to highly demanding positions and usually excel in them (for instance, investment banking was working all day and night constantly). It's more the trade-off that I am contemplating. 30s are typically a time when people get more senior in current occupations, start a family, etc. Would I be sacrificing these things is more my question. Seems like it would be highly probable.

I worked in areas of management, finance, and investing for a while so rubbed shoulders with investment bankers. The 24/7 schedule is about right but add drinking water from a fire hose while running a marathon with one leg tied and that's what you can expect. Yes, you would be sacrificing major parts of these things at least through residency. So 2 plus yrs premed/prep, 4yrs med school, 3 yrs residency = not much free time for anything else and then you're 40. Medicine is not a "can have it all" career, so you have to decide if it's worth it to you.

 

[VCtoMD]

I worked in areas of management, finance, and investing for a while so rubbed shoulders with investment bankers. The 24/7 schedule is about right but add drinking water from a fire hose while running a marathon with one leg tied and that's what you can expect. Yes, you would be sacrificing major parts of these things at least through residency. So 2 plus yrs premed/prep, 4yrs med school, 3 yrs residency = not much free time for anything else and then you're 40. Medicine is not a "can have it all" career, so you have to decide if it's worth it to you.

Sounds like you had a career before going into medicine. When did you make the transition? What was the driving reason you did it?

 

[DrMikeP]

Sounds like you had a career before going into medicine. When did you make the transition? What was the driving reason you did it?

I've had a couple to say the least. Made a transition in 30's and making one again in my 40's. 30's was for significantly family reasons and this one into medicine is for my own selfish passion because I've worked in it as a psychologist as part of the medical team and I feel it in my soul and nothing could discourage me from pursuing it (wife supported passion tho...lol).

Get some volunteer or work experiences in a medical setting. Work as a scribe for an ED doc or PCT.... See if it's for you. Going back is a challenge as you'll be taking pre-reqs with 19yo kids, but you'll find your maturity to be a great asset.

 

[VCtoMD]

I've had a couple to say the least. Made a transition in 30's and making one again in my 40's. 30's was for significantly family reasons and this one into medicine is for my own selfish passion because I've worked in it as a psychologist as part of the medical team and I feel it in my soul and nothing could discourage me from pursuing it (wife supported passion tho...lol).

Get some volunteer or work experiences in a medical setting. Work as a scribe for an ED doc or PCT.... See if it's for you. Going back is a challenge as you'll be taking pre-reqs with 19yo kids, but you'll find your maturity to be a great asset.

Wow...good luck. My challenge is I can't find any good volunteer work that accommodates my full time job. Still trying to figure that out.

 

[DrMikeP]

Wow...good luck. My challenge is I can't find any good volunteer work that accommodates my full time job. Still trying to figure that out.

Volunteer for a Hospice. The hours can vary greatly and its a good EC for your application.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[QofQuimica]

Right now you are suffering from a common syndrome known as "the grass is greener on the other side." I totally get it. I've been taking CFP classes for the past seven months, and I fantasize sometimes about quitting medicine to go play in the stock market full time. You know, maybe even to a job like....yours.

Ok, so let's be real now. Seven months of dating an EM resident is not a good reason to switch careers to medicine. Since you have no clinical experience, the first place to start is by getting some. As the prior poster said, absolutely, yes, get a volunteer gig in some clinical capacity. Since you think you want to be an ER doc, go volunteer in an ER. The smellier and less glamorous, the better. Your goal is to see what real day-to-day ER medical practice is like, not fantasy TV land and girlfriend war stories. If doing due diligence regarding a major life change like this isn't enough to motivate you to find the time to get some clinical experience in an actual ER, then maybe that should tell you something regarding your lack of commitment to career changing to medicine. If so, it's ok. Just be honest with yourself. I can tell you that I know I'm not serious about becoming a CFP because there ain't no way I'm wanting to go through the hassle of studying for the exam and doing the apprenticeship, even though I enjoy the classes. And that's fine. I'm still using what I've learned to more effectively manage my own finances. Though secretly deep down inside, part of me really would like to be the Wolf of Wall Street.

 

[VCtoMD]

Right now you are suffering from a common syndrome known as "the grass is greener on the other side." I totally get it. I've been taking CFP classes for the past seven months, and I fantasize sometimes about quitting medicine to go play in the stock market full time. You know, maybe even to a job like....yours.

Ok, so let's be real now. Seven months of dating an EM resident is not a good reason to switch careers to medicine. Since you have no clinical experience, the first place to start is by getting some. As the prior poster said, absolutely, yes, get a volunteer gig in some clinical capacity. Since you think you want to be an ER doc, go volunteer in an ER. The smellier and less glamorous, the better. Your goal is to see what real day-to-day ER medical practice is like, not fantasy TV land and girlfriend war stories. If doing due diligence regarding a major life change like this isn't enough to motivate you to find the time to get some clinical experience in an actual ER, then maybe that should tell you something regarding your lack of commitment to career changing to medicine. If so, it's ok. Just be honest with yourself. I can tell you that I know I'm not serious about becoming a CFP because there ain't no way I'm wanting to go through the hassle of studying for the exam and doing the apprenticeship, even though I enjoy the classes. And that's fine. I'm still using what I've learned to more effectively manage my own finances. Though secretly deep down inside, part of me really would like to be the Wolf of Wall Street.

QofQ, great response...thanks! Yes, the "grass is greener" syndrome is top of my mind. In any case, I'd love to find a way to volunteer in an ER, but I don't know if that's possible while still doing my day job. I'm certainly not going to make any rash decisions, just doing some research. When I was young, I had visions of glory and romance like the Wolf of Wall Street, and that was a contributing factor to me getting into finance....

 

[QofQuimica]

QofQ, great response...thanks! Yes, the "grass is greener" syndrome is top of my mind. In any case, I'd love to find a way to volunteer in an ER, but I don't know if that's possible while still doing my day job. I'm certainly not going to make any rash decisions, just doing some research. When I was young, I had visions of glory and romance like the Wolf of Wall Street, and that was a contributing factor to me getting into finance....

Oh, I know. People have visions of glory and romance like that about working in medicine, too. Like all we do is save lives nonstop and hook up in the call rooms day in and day out. The reality, of course, is that day-to-day practice can sometimes be....well, monotonous. Not too different than how any other job out there can sometimes be monotonous, once you've done it for hundreds or thousands of days in a row. And there is definitely a sense of being a cog in a machine performing an exercise in futility sometimes. Every night, I admit people with chest pain, heart failure, and COPD to the hospital. I can't say that any of those diseases get me excited and intellectually stimulated to the utmost any more these days. Especially when here is Mrs. Jones bouncing back into the hospital again after just being discharged for a heart failure exacerbation last Tuesday, because she can't or won't stick to her low-salt diet after she gets discharged.

In your case, the good thing about ERs is that they are open 24-7. Go volunteer at night or on weekends if that's what it takes. In fact, one of the big downsides of being an ER doc is the fact that they have to work at night and on weekends when almost everyone else is home in bed or with their families. Would be a good thing to know up front if that kind of schedule is not for you.

 

[VCtoMD]

Oh, I know. People have visions of glory and romance like that about working in medicine, too. Like all we do is save lives nonstop and hook up in the call rooms day in and day out. The reality, of course, is that day-to-day practice can sometimes be....well, monotonous. Not too different than how any other job out there can sometimes be monotonous, once you've done it for hundreds or thousands of days in a row. And there is definitely a sense of being a cog in a machine performing an exercise in futility sometimes. Every night, I admit people with chest pain, heart failure, and COPD to the hospital. I can't say that any of those diseases get me excited and intellectually stimulated to the utmost any more these days. Especially when here is Mrs. Jones bouncing back into the hospital again after just being discharged for a heart failure exacerbation last Tuesday, because she can't or won't stick to her low-salt diet after she gets discharged.

In your case, the good thing about ERs is that they are open 24-7. Go volunteer at night or on weekends if that's what it takes. In fact, one of the big downsides of being an ER doc is the fact that they have to work at night and on weekends when almost everyone else is home in bed or with their families. Would be a good thing to know up front if that kind of schedule is not for you.

Very helpful, thanks. The one thing about the hours you didn't mention, though, is while you may have to work nights or weekends, often times you only work ~30 hrs/week?! That aint bad. But, I actually WOULD like a job that requires more hours. The other thing that does not attract me to EM is it is "transactional" and you "leave work at work." Does that ever get old and do you ever crave working on a long-term team oriented project?

 

[esob]

Especially when here is Mrs. Jones bouncing back into the hospital again after just being discharged for a heart failure exacerbation last Tuesday, because she can't or won't stick to her low-salt diet after she gets discharged.

Haha, I was just thinking about the fact today that for some roles (such as a PCP), being a good salesman should be part of the skill set. I've met some docs that could sell a ketchup Popsicle to a kid with white gloves and others who had such poor repore I think their patients would do just the opposite of what they recommended. I've got some fellow pre-meds in my classes that might be better suited for some non-patient contact roles

 

[QofQuimica]

Very helpful, thanks. The one thing about the hours you didn't mention, though, is while you may have to work nights or weekends, often times you only work ~30 hrs/week?! That aint bad. But, I actually WOULD like a job that requires more hours. The other thing that does not attract me to EM is it is "transactional" and you "leave work at work." Does that ever get old and do you ever crave working on a long-term team oriented project?

My friend, there is no such thing as a free lunch in medicine any more than there is in any other human endeavor. There is a reason why ER docs work fewer contact hours than most other docs do. Premeds tend to greatly underestimate A) the intensity of working in an ER, and B) the recovery time needed when one is constantly shifting one's circadian rhythm around between nights and days. Go down to the EM forum on this website and do a search for what the posters there call the "DOMA." There are also some excellent threads regarding the havoc that an ER schedule creates in their family lives, which is something you likely aren't considering too deeply right now as a young single man.

I can't say I have ever craved working on a long-term team oriented project at work, either. In fact, one of the benefits of being a nocturnist is that I get roped into FEWER "team projects" and other administrative nonsense.

 

[grt398]

If you're in NYC I'd suggest trying this out:

https://www.cc-seas.columbia.edu/preprofessional/opportunities/clinical/4055

I did it several years ago when considering a transition from ibanking -> medicine and it helped me figure out if I liked working with patients. As people above have pointed out, it's an extremely difficult transition that will require tremendous commitment on your part for quite a few years. And you're going to get asked over and over again why you left such a lucrative career path (and some physicians won't believe you no matter what you say) because there's absolutely a similar "grass is greener" view from many physicians who took the traditional undergrad -> med school -> residency path and think they'd have a much easier/better life had they pursued finance. For what it's worth...it was totally worth it to me and I've never regretted the decision, but as you'll see searching the forums, it's a very personal issue regarding whether it's "worth it." Feel free to PM me with any specific questions.