Quitting City Year after Letter of Commitment

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lilmiffy

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Hi All,

I just had a quick question that I've been grappling with recently and would appreciate ya'lls feedback as I could not find anything online.

I recently applied for and got accepted to the City Year program. They gave me two weeks to respond to their offer and so I did because I did not have any other job opportunities available at the time. However, it seems that things are going well right now and I may have some other opportunities to come.

I am just wondering, is it okay for me to quit my job at City Year even though I have signed a letter of commitment with them? Are there any legal bindings or consequences that will not allow me to do this? I don't want to get in trouble, but I also would much rather work in other places.

Thanks!

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it's not about legality...it's about your word. man up
 
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This kid is gonna be a great doctor.
 
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If you are not going to commit, you shouldn't have signed a letter of commitment.
 
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Legally, no there's nothing against you quitting AmeriCorps/City Year. My AmeriCorps job only opened up because someone quit a month before it started. Poor taste? Yes.
 
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Hi All,

I just had a quick question that I've been grappling with recently and would appreciate ya'lls feedback as I could not find anything online.

I recently applied for and got accepted to the City Year program. They gave me two weeks to respond to their offer and so I did because I did not have any other job opportunities available at the time. However, it seems that things are going well right now and I may have some other opportunities to come.

I am just wondering, is it okay for me to quit my job at City Year even though I have signed a letter of commitment with them? Are there any legal bindings or consequences that will not allow me to do this? I don't want to get in trouble, but I also would much rather work in other places.

Thanks!


This is not a problem early in the year. I'm sure they can just fill your spot, and they account for turnover like this. If you have a better opportunity and will get more money take it. City year is a tough program and you are really poor the whole time. Definitely makes for a great experience for a lot of people, but if you find something better (especially financially) definitely don't worry about your letter of commitment in making a decision.

I don't know about CY specificially, but in AmeriCorps people drop after taking positions all the time, and it's better to do it sooner before you start so they can find a replacement than in the middle of your service term when they can't. There is turnover in a lot of service programs like CY and AC, so don't worry about it.

I'm also serving my second year of AmeriCorps for reference.
 
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OP, dont worry about the people hating on your choice. This has no reflection on you as a person, and it's actually nice that you are thoughtful about your decision. It's not even quitting becuase you haven't started, and they will replace you without a problem. Move on and enjoy your gap year!
 
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Thank ya'll for your opinion. I appreciate it.
 
OP, dont worry about the people hating on your choice. This has no reflection on you as a person, and it's actually nice that you are thoughtful about your decision. It's not even quitting becuase you haven't started, and they will replace you without a problem. Move on and enjoy your gap year!
Don't delude the OP into thinking his selfish concerns are somehow righteous. It's nice that he's being "thoughtful" about his decision? His only concerns were for personal repercussions!
I am just wondering, is it okay for me to quit my job at City Year even though I have signed a letter of commitment with them? Are there any legal bindings or consequences that will not allow me to do this? I don't want to get in trouble, but I also would much rather work in other places.
Commendable concern would be asking something like "has anyone else here worked with City Year or is anyone else able to comment on their ability to fill the position if I leave?"

But beyond that, this is just a real-life situation people have to learn to deal with maturely. You won't always have all the job offers you'll end up getting during the same time period. You will have to make time-pressured decisions and commit to them. It shows poor integrity to recant on things like this. If OP didn't want to do City Year, he shouldn't have accepted the position, much less formally committed to it.
 
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Don't delude the OP into thinking his selfish concerns are somehow righteous. It's nice that he's being "thoughtful" about his decision? His only concerns were for personal repercussions!

People quit jobs they are committed to all the time because they don't like what they are doing. OP committed as a formality so the program could get a sense of how many positions they have, but they can fill it with no problem. Consider if the OP applied to City Year as a back up if he didn't get into the med school he is waitlisted at. Should the OP decline the position because he might get into med school, and thus would have to break the commitment? If the OP got off the waitlist should he turn down med school because of this commitment? Would you? Probably not.

A few of the AC members in my program last year quit midway through because they struggled with being so poor and because the positions were not what they thought it would be (common in AC and CY). Everyone was supportive of them leaving (including staff although they were disappointed and it made some trouble for the rest of us), because it was the best decision for them.

And not that it matters, but city year by definition is also not a job, it's a volunteer service year. City Year puts you in poverty for a year, and I can't hate on someone who chooses a job with a real salary. $12,000 a year is brutal.

Consider other "real-life situations" where people break commitments: marriage, changing to a different residency program, taking a job and then getting a better one. There are a million commitments that people break because things come up, life gets in the way. It's okay to make decisions because they are in your best interest, especially in regards to a career. To think otherwise is just foolish.
 
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The holier-than-thou on this thread is palpable.

If you break your word with them, you'll suffer no negative consequences apart from not receiving a LoR from them and having them relate this to future employers who call and ask.

There are many situations in which this would be acceptable. I think simple dissatisfaction is one of them. It's your life. Don't spend your time doing something you don't want to do. Don't let another (significantly better) opportunity pass by because of this.

It's good to keep your word. It's not a damnable offense if you don't.
 
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Dam, I guess the internet isn't the best place to ask questions... Really toxic. I'm sorry that I came of as selfish and self-righteous. Totally not my intent. But thank you for offering your opinions on the matter.
 
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You didn't come off that way. I think people are misunderstanding what your letter of commitment signified.

Your life. You've only got one of them. Spend it however you like.

Dam, I guess the internet isn't the best place to ask questions... Really toxic. I'm sorry that I came of as selfish and self-righteous. Totally not my intent. But thank you for offering your opinions on the matter.
 
It's ok. I was in TFA (part of americorps). While I stayed, many people left after one year then their commitment was two years.
 
I think that it is good to keep your word, but from their perspective, you'll probably do more harm than good if you stay on but are dissatisfied and unhappy with your life the whole time. I know that I would much rather have an employee quit or renege on an offer than be miserable and toxic to everybody else. In a perfect world you might stoically try to make the best of it, etc., but we are all human and I think people will understand if you change your mind.
 
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Dam, I guess the internet isn't the best place to ask questions... Really toxic.

Welcome to SDN (and the internet generally) :p

There is great advice on these forums you just have to distill all of the comments and find the good stuff. The job search after college is crazy and it's tough to navigate, so definitely don't worry about making any missteps as long as you end up on a road that you are happy with and that will make you a stronger applicant. This City Year thing has nothing to do with your integrity or keeping your word or your future as a doc or anything like that.

:zip:
 
While keeping your work is a damn fine thing, putting yourself through two years that make you miserable because you foolishly made the wrong decision is not a great course of action. You'd be unhappy, which would likely lead to unhappiness and poor performance that could go so far as causing more harm than good to the people you are trying to help. This isn't good for the City Year program, it isn't good for the kids, and it isn't good for you. It's far better to back out and give that opportunity to someone else that will put their heart and soul into it. Keeping your word may be the good and honorable thing to do, but doing so even though it will cause more harm than good to all involved is just plain stupid.
 
People quit jobs they are committed to all the time because they don't like what they are doing. OP committed as a formality so the program could get a sense of how many positions they have, but they can fill it with no problem. Consider if the OP applied to City Year as a back up if he didn't get into the med school he is waitlisted at. Should the OP decline the position because he might get into med school, and thus would have to break the commitment? If the OP got off the waitlist should he turn down med school because of this commitment? Would you? Probably not.

A few of the AC members in my program last year quit midway through because they struggled with being so poor and because the positions were not what they thought it would be (common in AC and CY). Everyone was supportive of them leaving (including staff although they were disappointed and it made some trouble for the rest of us), because it was the best decision for them.
There's a difference between moving from one position to another as opportunities arise and backing out before even making an effort. OP didn't commit "as a formality" to the program or anything, he did it so he could guarantee himself a spot because at the time he didn't have any other opportunities. He is then obligated to attempt to fulfill that commitment in spite of new opportunities arising. If he were later accepted to med school for this coming year, he would be obligated (IMO) to request to defer and complete City Year. It's very likely the school would oblige. If they didn't, then he is put in a position of forcibly choosing between the two, and it would be acceptable to choose medical school, obviously.

The AC members that left midway through at least put in the effort, that's a lot more significant than committing and backing out.

And not that it matters, but city year by definition is also not a job, it's a volunteer service year. City Year puts you in poverty for a year, and I can't hate on someone who chooses a job with a real salary. $12,000 a year is brutal.
That's fine, OP should have consciously and carefully considered all of this before committing.

Consider other "real-life situations" where people break commitments: marriage, changing to a different residency program, taking a job and then getting a better one. There are a million commitments that people break because things come up, life gets in the way. It's okay to make decisions because they are in your best interest, especially in regards to a career. To think otherwise is just foolish.
Personal relationships are not comparable to professional relationships; marriage is different. Yes, people switch residency programs and move on from jobs to better ones, but I cannot imagine someone accepting a job as a result of an offer deadline, then recanting prior to starting as they accept a later offer. That is so incredibly rude, and not something I've seen any of my friends, whom are accepting professional salaried positions, consider acceptable.
 
Welcome to SDN (and the internet generally) :p

There is great advice on these forums you just have to distill all of the comments and find the good stuff. The job search after college is crazy and it's tough to navigate, so definitely don't worry about making any missteps as long as you end up on a road that you are happy with and that will make you a stronger applicant. This City Year thing has nothing to do with your integrity or keeping your word or your future as a doc or anything like that.

:zip:
As another random person on the internet I would tell OP that this absolutely has everything to do with his integrity and keeping his word.
 
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There's a difference between moving from one position to another as opportunities arise and backing out before even making an effort. OP didn't commit "as a formality" to the program or anything, he did it so he could guarantee himself a spot because at the time he didn't have any other opportunities. He is then obligated to attempt to fulfill that commitment in spite of new opportunities arising. If he were later accepted to med school for this coming year, he would be obligated (IMO) to request to defer and complete City Year. It's very likely the school would oblige. If they didn't, then he is put in a position of forcibly choosing between the two, and it would be acceptable to choose medical school, obviously.

The AC members that left midway through at least put in the effort, that's a lot more significant than committing and backing out.


That's fine, OP should have consciously and carefully considered all of this before committing.


Personal relationships are not comparable to professional relationships; marriage is different. Yes, people switch residency programs and move on from jobs to better ones, but I cannot imagine someone accepting a job as a result of an offer deadline, then recanting prior to starting as they accept a later offer. That is so incredibly rude, and not something I've seen any of my friends, whom are accepting professional salaried positions, consider acceptable.

If someone was planning to quit a program that I was running, I would rather that they quit before starting instead of wasting my time/effort to train them, IMO. It's also easier to find a replacement now than it would be midway through the program, which would put extra strain on the other individuals participating who now need to pick up the slack.

Is it professional to quit after committing? No, not really. But if you're gonna do it, do it ASAP so that they can find someone else.
 
If someone was planning to quit a program that I was running, I would rather that they quit before starting instead of wasting my time/effort to train them, IMO. It's also easier to find a replacement now than it would be midway through the program, which would put extra strain on the other individuals participating who now need to pick up the slack.

Is it professional to quit after committing? No, not really. But if you're gonna do it, do it ASAP so that they can find someone else.

you present the false choice fallacy that the only options are to quit now/quit mid year/suck at job....there is a blatant disregard here for the, "be an adult and perform your duties well" option

I'll repeat...man up OP
 
you present the false choice fallacy that the only options are to quit now/quit mid year/suck at job....there is a blatant disregard here for the, "be an adult and perform your duties well" option

I'll repeat...man up OP
If you've ever had someone working underneath you that didn't want to work for you, you'd understand why it is better for everyone involved to have someone that is eager, talented, and excited about the position take it instead of op.
 
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Life happens... People do not fulfill their commitments all the time. Of course it isn't good, but it happens all over, regardless of industry. This is your life, you must do what's best for you.

I think the OP should maybe reconsider City Year. Essentially, it's a program that looks good to ADCOMs, pays you a stipend, and counts as volunteering all at the same time. Any money you make now is pocket change compared to future earnings as a physician. Your goal is to get into medical school, and City Year is a solid EC to help you get in. It may help you far more than a typical job, since you can use the service angle to apply which we all know ADCOMs want to hear.
 
If you've ever had someone working underneath you that didn't want to work for you, you'd understand why it is better for everyone involved to have someone that is eager, talented, and excited about the position take it instead of op.

I run a construction company...I know all about people who would rather be somewhere else ;). I'd rather be somewhere else, which is why I have went to school at night for 2yrs. But I still do my job well...because I'm a grown man, and if I am getting paid for something I'll do it well
 
I run a construction company...I know all about people who would rather be somewhere else ;). I'd rather be somewhere else, which is why I have went to school at night for 2yrs. But I still do my job well...because I'm a grown man, and if I am getting paid for something I'll do it well
I'm the same way in my current position (I'm a bit burned out, but I still give my all every day), but you and I both know that 19 out of 20 people just can't give their all if they don't give a damn. Chances are, op is one of those people and everyone will be significantly happier if he doesn't tough it out and lets that position go to someone that really wants and needs it. So just let it go man. Hold yourself to a higher standard if you so choose, obviously, but realize most people aren't cut from the same cloth.
 
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That's fine, OP should have consciously and carefully considered all of this before committing.

It sounds like he did. OP made the best decision for his/her future with the info at hand. The circumstances changed so OP reevaluated the situation and made a new decision. This was all before the position even began, and it's definitely in time for them to fill the position. CY knows people do this and account for the changes. It really doesn't matter at all to anyone.

It is important IMO to consider that the OP would live off ~$12,000 a year. This is VERY hard especially if the OP doesn't have outside financial support or has to move. I've done it for two years and I completely support anyone who decides to do something else even after committing. Not for everyone. Even if OP really wanted to do it, a job making more money is probably dumb to pass up.
 
if I am getting paid for something I'll do it well

In that case OP doesn't need to worry about doing a crappy job becuase CY is a volunteer program :p The living stipend is not income from working.
 
I'm the same way in my current position (I'm a bit burned out, but I still give my all every day), but you and I both know that 19 out of 20 people just can't give their all if they don't give a damn. Chances are, op is one of those people and everyone will be significantly happier if he doesn't tough it out and lets that position go to someone that really wants and needs it. So just let it go man. Hold yourself to a higher standard if you so choose, obviously, but realize most people aren't cut from the same cloth.

A lot of you don't understand that the OP is still months away from even starting the position. The committal was a formality as much as anything else. Going from being a volutneer for a year to being employed for a year is significant too. OP would probably be awesome in CY, but will be equally awesome in a different position.
 
I'm the same way in my current position (I'm a bit burned out, but I still give my all every day), but you and I both know that 19 out of 20 people just can't give their all if they don't give a damn. Chances are, op is one of those people and everyone will be significantly happier if he doesn't tough it out and lets that position go to someone that really wants and needs it. So just let it go man. Hold yourself to a higher standard if you so choose, obviously, but realize most people aren't cut from the same cloth.

hahaha, I think you win there...I'm probably going to agree with you now
 
I don't understand why the OP is getting so much hate from certain posters. There was recently a thread about someone who wanted to quit their scribing position (those have long "commitments") after getting an acceptance to medical school, and everyone unanimously agreed that the person should quit. Why is @lilmiffy taking so much flak for wanting to leave before the thing even started?

Pre-meds have a pretty nasty reputation when it comes to doing certain ECs. While I don't think it's an excuse or makes things right, I can understand why pre-meds are pressured to do a bunch of things they otherwise would not have done. If organizations want to safeguard themselves from flakes, then they should either not take pre-meds, or create enough red tape that they would only get reliable ones. This is why, for example, my friend who owns a medical office would never hire a pre-med. They instead hire people who either only have a high school diploma or didn't finish college because they want to do the entry-level clinical work as a career. They aren't going to hire a pre-med, even though the pre-med may have a more "impressive" resume on paper.

But when you have so many people putting on a huge dog and pony show by doing things they pretend to be passionate about, then of course there is going to be significant collateral damage. It's really not fair to blame the players for being forced into this position.
 
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If he were later accepted to med school for this coming year, he would be obligated (IMO) to request to defer and complete City Year.

Although hypothetical, this is just flat wrong, and speaks generally to why your opinion is bad for the OP to consider. Med school (or a real job) vs being a volunteer is a no brainer IMO (CY and AC members are often underappreciated, underutilized in many cases, really poor, on food stamps, and have terrible health insurance. It's not ideal to compare to TFA because they are real teachers who make a salary and have significant challenges that are very different from CY.). Sometimes this doesn't sink in until you've actually made a commitment, so if you want out before the program starts, no worries. AND they just fill the position like nothing happened. It's really simple actually. More generally, the recruitment process for all AC, CY programs know this happens because the positions are not even close to being as desireable as a "real job" in a lot of cases.

I commend the idealism to some extent, but you aren't using any context or empathy, and apparently have no knowledge of the program. The world isn't black and white
 
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Although hypothetical, this is just flat wrong, and speaks generally to why your opinion is bad for the OP to consider. Med school (or a real job) vs being a volunteer is a no brainer IMO (CY and AC members are often underappreciated, underutilized in many cases, really poor, on food stamps, and have terrible health insurance. It's not ideal to compare to TFA because they are real teachers who make a salary and have significant challenges that are very different from CY.). Sometimes this doesn't sink in until you've actually made a commitment, so if you want out before the program starts, no worries. AND they just fill the position like nothing happened. It's really simple actually. More generally, the recruitment process for all AC, CY programs know this happens because the positions are not even close to being as desireable as a "real job" in a lot of cases.

I commend the idealism to some extent, but you aren't using any context or empathy, and apparently have no knowledge of the program. The world isn't black and white
You can't tell me it's "flat wrong," it's my opinion. It is my opinion that he would be obligated (and I mean ethically or morally here, not legally obviously) to attempt to fulfill that commitment, regardless of his ultimate goal for medical school. Furthermore, based on your response here I don't believe I've made my argument clear enough. It is of no consequence to me what the nature of the program is or the ability of the program to fill the spot or whether it is a real job or is of significant value to the OP relative to his ultimate professional goals. One's word should mean something. If you make a commitment, stick to it. If OP asks CY about this and they assure him it's not a problem and that they can fill the spot, then obviously no harm will be done. However, that's not what the OP asked.

I discussed this thread with my closest friend today, who has recently had to decide between multiple professional job offers, and he completely agreed that backing out of a commitment for a later offer, either for a job or in this case, would be inappropriate.

This is of course all my opinion, and you may certainly find me too idealistic, but I personally find the cavalier attitude most of the people in this thread have regarding this issue to be appalling.
 
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You can't tell me it's "flat wrong," it's my opinion. It is my opinion that he would be obligated (and I mean ethically or morally here, not legally obviously) to attempt to fulfill that commitment, regardless of his ultimate goal for medical school. Furthermore, based on your response here I don't believe I've made my argument clear enough. It is of no consequence to me what the nature of the program is or the ability of the program to fill the spot or whether it is a real job or is of significant value to the OP relative to his ultimate professional goals. One's word should mean something. If you make a commitment, stick to it. If OP asks CY about this and they assure him it's not a problem and that they can fill the spot, then obviously no harm will be done. However, that's not what the OP asked.

I discussed this thread with my closest friend today, who has recently had to decide between multiple professional job offers, and he completely agreed that backing out of a commitment for a later offer, either for a job or in this case, would be inappropriate.

This is of course all my opinion, and you may certainly find me too idealistic, but I personally find the cavalier attitude most of the people in this thread have regarding this issue to be appalling.

Hey @gettheleadout , do you know if schools will refuse to admit students who would knowingly break commitments for programs like TFA and the such (where the minimum commitment is well known)?

If schools take people who break commitments (like quittig TFA after one year or less due to medical school admittance), then they only perpetuate this problem. If pre-meds receive no backlash from their end-goals, then they will selfishly play the system due to no negative repurcussions. They only have everything to gain, and virtually nothing to lose.

It really sucks when people half-ass programs like TFA. The collateral damage is too great. It's not like an ED volunteer eho annoys techs by slacking. These are real kids who are dependent on these instructors for their future. Children as collateral damage is just low... :(

I would hope that medical schools clamp down on people that ultimately use programs like TFA, CY, and others as mere checklist items. If they don't, the OP's situation will continue to be the norm (not trying to insult the OP in any way).
 
Some people had to quit because they got injured/robbed or didn't feel safe at all. There are really not much TFA can protect their safety when they have to work/teach in very dangerous areas. Their safety is more important than the commitments.

I remember a while back there was a thread where a TFA teacher was getting racially motivated threats, and feared for his life. He asked what ADCOMs would think. They all said it would be totally fine to leave if a person was in fear of their own safety. I don't think that's the issue. In this and many other cases, the OP is going to break the commitment before starting. It's an entirly different which as you can see, is viewed differently by the many posters in this thread.
 
Hey @gettheleadout , do you know if schools will refuse to admit students who would knowingly break commitments for programs like TFA and the such (where the minimum commitment is well known)?

If schools take people who break commitments (like quittig TFA after one year or less due to medical school admittance), then they only perpetuate this problem. If pre-meds receive no backlash from their end-goals, then they will selfishly play the system due to no negative repurcussions. They only have everything to gain, and virtually nothing to lose.

It really sucks when people half-ass programs like TFA. The collateral damage is too great. It's not like an ED volunteer eho annoys techs by slacking. These are real kids who are dependent on these instructors for their future. Children as collateral damage is just low... :(

I would hope that medical schools clamp down on people that ultimately use programs like TFA, CY, and others as mere checklist items. If they don't, the OP's situation will continue to be the norm (not trying to insult the OP in any way).

He didn't break a commitment while in his service year. It was during the application process. It would be like if someone got into med school, and then decided they didn't want to go. Even if they committed to a specific school there wouldn't be anything wrong with them doing something better for themselves. Especially if someone else can just take their spot. This is the APPLICATION process.

Doing TFA is VERY VERY different than city year. Regardless, there are okay reasons to quit, and there are bad reasons to quit.

I had a friend quit TFA because the challenges were too hard and he burned out (kids hitting them and too much violence and language barriers), now that person is at a top 20 med school and is still a great person. Another friend dropped in the training for TFA because in Mississippi corporal punishment can be used and she didn't want to hit her students and there was a huge culture shock in rural Mississippi, I couldn't blame her and now she is successful and a great person in a different teaching setting.

I had a friend quit their AC position last year because the position changed after a few weeks and it was still undefined to the extent that she didn't feel like she was being used at all and really had nothing to contribute (she couldn't change her position). She quit, is still a good person, and is at a top MBA program. I had a friend who got in a similar position and stayed and she HATED her life for a year and by not quitting, she put herself through a meaningless year without growth or responsibility because she had such a terrible supervisor and hostile work environment. She should have quit!!!

I know another person who quit AC midway through because the was robbed at gun point and had her car stolen. Making on 12,000 dollars a year, she wasn't able to afford all of the things associated with this and decided she had to quit her commitment because she needed an income (no family to support her).

I know another person who quit AC because she had a kid and found herself unable to afford daycare on a 12,000 dollar/year living stipend (that she thought she would get covered as part of the program, but wasn't).

I got into a Masters program at UPenn and told them I was going, but dropped a week before classes when I got my AmeriCorps position. It saved me >80,000 dollars and I got some amazing experiences in AC. I'm very confident that I made the right decision and equally confident that this life decision has 0 effect on my integrity or the strength of my word.

And finally, I know a person who quit 3 months early because she got into a grad program and wanted to vacation. THIS is a selfish reason to quit. I totally agree that this person made a selfish and not respectable decision. (this is not even close to the OP's situation though)

For the other people, they made hard life choices to maximize their happiness/safety/financial security/etc. They were totally justified IMO and generally by the opinion of our AC director and other staff.

These are just a few anecdotal examples I have seen. I served as the lead of an AC program and was involved in statewide programming and recruitment for 200 AC members so I know how this process works and how challenging it can be. It's a volunteer position and often has as many problems as it has rewards. There are definitely good reasons and bad reasons to break a commitment. To argue that they should never be broken and your word is as mighty as stone and can never be broken under any circumstance and if it is zeus should strike you down with a thunderbolt because you have 0 integrity for the rest of your life, is too black and white for what actually happens in the world.
 
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This seems similar. Allow Les Miles to enlighten all of us. sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_staples/01/20/commitment.project/
 
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I'm doing an AmeriCorps program right now, and if you're not 100% sure that you want to do it, don't. They get plenty of applicants and will easily fill your spot. Living on the stipend is very, very hard and most of my AC peers are incredibly burned out. 3 have quit the program in the past month, and 3 more are planning to leave within the next month. Backing out now is far better than leaving mid-term.

You're not a jerk for choosing a job over CityYear. It's a very difficult thing to do, financially, particularly if you'll be paying for your living expenses entirely on your own. There are also plenty of jobs that provide just a much of a benefit to the local community and are just as rewarding. Do what's best for you.
 
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