Quoted: Debt and med school acceptance

[Doodledog]

Adcoms or anyone who knows,

I am a pre-med applying to MD and DO programs. Would admissions committees at U.S. MD or DO schools be hesitant to accept an applicant who is $160k in debt from undergraduate student loans? I have read that medical schools are ranked by "total student indebtedness" which includes both undergraduate and medical school debt. I am concerned that starting medical school with $160k would make the medical school look bad in those rankings so they might not want to accept me.

Should I mention being $160k in debt in admissions interviews or in my personal statement if it's relevant? If I did, I'm thinking that someone might have ideas that could help me, or maybe I would be offered a scholarship, or favored for a scholarship if I were equal to another applicant in most other ways. I'm fine answering questions about this in person as long as the number of $160k itself wouldn't make me a less attractive candidate.

Since the question always comes up I will explain how I accrued $160k in student loan debt while in undergraduate school. If you're in a hurry, you can forgo reading the remainder of this post because it's only an explanation of that. I am not trying to get pitty points. I only want to explain this because it probably doesn't make sense by itself. I grew up as a ward of the court. This means that I was in foster homes, many of them, all on a short term basis. I was never adopted by any family. I was passed from home to home until eventually getting into college. I think the lack of a family explains why no one taught me about finances or about financing college. In fact, where I grew up, most people didn't go to college, even the non-foster kids. Before signing any loan agreements, I met with guidance counselors, and attended seminars about paying for college. The advice I received was not to worry about college student loans because you will be able to pay them back with your job once you graduate college. I thought I had done my homework about that.

The rest of the problem I faced is that back when I went to undergraduate school, the national FAFSA financial aid form didn't ask students if they were a ward of the court. If my memory serves me right, there were two similar questions, one asking if the student is an orphan (meaning both biological parents deceased), and the other asking if the student was born before some year (checking age to determine independent status). Neither applied to me.

The undergraduate university I attended charged over $35k a year in tuition. As a teenager, I didn't know the difference between $35k, $100k, etc. The most money I was familiar with was $100. I did not know how much I would make at a job. I didn't know what job I would be getting. Everyone kept telling me, including advisers, not to worry and that it would all work out. They seemed to think I was being a perfectionist even though I felt that I was asking important questions, which as it turns out, I was.

Every year, my undergraduate school ran out of money except for stafford loans, private student loans, and a few smaller loans. Even though I would submit my completed financial aid applications on the first day and first hour I was allowed to each year, I would get practically no financial aid at first. My initial offers were usually around $10k. Then I would go to the financial aid office and meet with my financial aid adviser and ask why no money. Every year I was told that the school assumed that I would be living with parents and therefore awarded me nothing for room and board, etc. When I told my financial aid adviser that I grew up as an unadopted foster child with no family, they usually seemed sorry, but had no money left to give me besides private student loans for the remaining $25k to $30k of tuition. This came on top of the Stafford Loans in my original award letter. For a few years in a row, my financial aid adviser told me that I should stay in the computer system as independent, but it never worked. I had the same problem every year. So that's my story.

For the record, I did live as cheaply as possible. I had either a part time or full time job throughout most of college. Some people called me, "the one who always works," because it seemed like I was always turning down invitations because I had to go to work. I tried to eat cheaply which was difficult with no kitchen and only bathroom water. One year, I lost my job due to a concussion, and had no food because I didn't know about food stamps. I lived off of peanut butter and jelly and a protein shake here and there for 5 months straight. It was awful. I'm grateful that I recovered though. I'm also not trying to make people feel sorry for me by posting this. I'm just trying to give you a sense of how hard it was. Thanks for understanding. Any advice you have for me moving forward and possibly disclosing this debt to admissions committees would be appreciated.

I have never heard of anyone discussing undergraduate debt in the med school application process. I do not recommend doing this. I would note that although I've posted this, I don't think it fits well in CC. Might be better to consider simplifying the post and posting it in a WAMC thread.

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[Goro]

Our AdCom receives no info on an applicant's debt level. I can't see how it would be taken into consideration by myself or any of my colleagues.

I have never heard of anyone discussing undergraduate debt in the med school application process. I do not recommend doing this. I would note that although I've posted this, I don't think it fits well in CC. Might be better to consider simplifying the post and posting it in a WAMC thread.

 

[Doodledog]

From the OP

What if that debt, or debt payments, was the answer to an interview question? Or the reason the candidate could not afford to attend a school he or she was accepted to?

Should the candidate NOT mention being in that much student loan debt? By the way, I think this may be an unprecedented level of undergraduate debt. Other students likely know nothing about this. Admissions committees could say how they would react, or if they hold that against a candidate if they found out. My sense is that you wouldn't.

Again, I have not heard of someone asking about undergraduate debt in a med school interview. I can say with certainty that it would not be considered an acceptable question at our school. However, obviously, I can't speak for other schools.

 

[Leforte]

As far as I am aware debt is not a factor in determining who will be accepted into most medical schools in the USA. Once you are admitted, you will then be offered a package from the financial aid office. This could include financial based grants, subsidised and unsubsidised loans as well private loans. Many medical schools offer few academic "scholarships" to incoming first years since most people entering are high achievers.

You may run into some issues with meeting limits on governmental loans. There may also be a higher risk associated with private loans - but you can worry about this once you are accepted and have an aid package.

I do not believe that any financial aid office looks at your debt and would give you any more aid then another student with the same FAFSA financial situation to help you out. Your debt is your debt.

I know plenty of people who are graduating with 200k+ in debt. Some are well above $300k.

I graduated with ~ $180,000 in total debt and my fixed payments each month are ~$800 for 30 years. A small price to pay to allow me to practice medicine. Although I do realize that the interest rates may be different for you - there are many repayment options once you are out of school.

Best of luck.

 

[pietachok]

What if that debt, or debt payments, was the answer to an interview question?

Nobody will ever ask an applicant about debt. It's just not on the radar with regards to interview questions. And if they ask you about what challenges/obstacles you anticipate in the process of becoming a doctor, they're not really referring to the debt (I'm afraid the OP will think this, b/c he/she is so worried about the debt).

Or the reason the candidate could not afford to attend a school he or she was accepted to?

You deal with this after you're accepted. Almost every school will have a financial aid office presentation on the interview day. You can speak to the person representing the office about what difficulties you might have (with regards to hitting a cap on your gov't loans) and what if any special funding they might be able to find for you -- I feel like there must be organizations that specifically give scholarships/grants to people who were previously in foster care. And there are many programs to fund the medical education of people going into primary care if that's applicable to you.

Should the candidate NOT mention being in that much student loan debt?

Only as per above to the financial aid office.

By the way, I think this may be an unprecedented level of undergraduate debt. Other students likely know nothing about this

OP, I feel terrible for you right now, not because of your amount of debt but because you have no point of reference and are thus being disproportionately traumatized by it. You are so far from an unprecedented amount of debt that your statement would be funny if it weren't so painful to imagine how worried you are. While nobody wants to be in $160k of debt, a lot of students are. There are students who paid for private colleges with financial aid and then had to do a postbacc or SMP. There are MD students who've already paid for a DDS or JD.

Within reason, pick a med school that is more affordable, but don't make a big deal about a few thousand here or there if it's the difference between your dream school and . . . the one you don't want to go to.

My only other word of caution that is due is regarding applications to DO schools. MD programs charge $100-200 to save a seat once you're admitted & sometimes that's refundable when you release the seat. DO schools, however, charge $1000 to $2000 to hold a seat more than a few weeks after an offer is made, and their fee is non-refundable. It's horrible and I think unethical. I do not know if they make special accommodations for people who are economically disadvantaged -- after you get admitted to one, call and ask for them to waive or reduce the fee and explain your situation. After getting the admission offer they can't and won't rescind it regardless of how much you annoy them in pleading for the reduction. If you don't want to go to the first school that admits you, you're going to be in a predicament. The best advice I can give with regards to the aspects of this that you can control is to submit your applications and do your interviews in the order you want to go to the school -- i.e. submit the secondary application to your #1 DO school first, then the #2 DO school second, etc., because if you are a very competitive applicant, you will likely be invited for interviews in exactly that order. The turn around times on the DO school stuff is much quicker in general for applicants with stronger applications.

When you apply to MD programs, you're probably entitled to fee waivers. Apply wisely. Sell yourself -- as long as your academic profile is decent, your background is going to be seen as an asset to your application, and you shouldn't be afraid to refer to it for advantage. And then hopefully you won't have to deal with the unethical mess of the DO seat-reservation fees. (I have nothing against the DO education, but the administration in this arena is particularly noxious across the board).