Race classification to med schools: possibly controversial thread

[Cyndaquil MD]

ok I'm done. I entertained your trolling for the night but please don't expect a response for me because that would be easy ✌️

Seems as though you're the one with the obsession with having the last word. It's been weeks since my first reply and you're still at it. Now I don't have any letters after my name but this just seems a little unhealthy and a waste of precious time. Do you mind me asking if you are in fact a medical student? Are you a reapplicant? Man, I envy your persistence and free time.

Looks like you couldn't keep your promise after all. I think you just proved my point about how you always want the last word. I never announced that I was done with the thread so I'm allowed to keep replying...

You've been irrelevant since page 4 and the discussion has carried on but it's nice to see you back contributing useless comments.

I am a medical student. But what does that have to do with the validity of my statements? Does your agreement with me somehow correlate to how far up I am in the medical profession ladder? Gee in that case, I'm a cardiothoracic surgeon with 50+ years of experience. How about you focus on getting into medical school first?

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[Cyndaquil MD]

But applicants that are of low SES status are given a boost in admissions, as are those that are the first generation to go to college. There's a self selected demarcation for it on the primary. That's how the holistic bit comes in...

People are judged based on what they do with what they have. Medical school has the added burden of trying to represent the population.

In an ideal world without the disparities our society faces, I'd be in agreement with you. I'm hopeful that given your strong feelings about these issues that you will lead some sort of charge to make our society reach a sort of stage where such steps aren't necessary.

I'm not sure I'll see it in my lifetime given that i have grey hairs in my beard already, but I'm hopeful...

Yes, I know that SES disadvantaged applicants are given a boost and I'm completely fine with that. What I was arguing was that you shouldn't give boosts based only on race, since you can't assume everybody of that race is SES disadvantaged. I've said before that I'm more than fine with using race-blind SES for affirmative action but clearly not everyone agrees.

I'm not trying to demonize URMs. I just think the admissions process is unfair (or they're trying to be fair but are just too lazy to actually implement AA properly). I'm with you in hoping that it will no longer be necessary in the future but it's going to take so much time.

 

[Cyndaquil MD]

You are aware that schools do look at SES right? There is a disadvantaged designation and schools do take it into account. In fact, I read disadvantaged statements for applicants I was interviewing this year and referenced them in my interviewee evaluations.

As for other Asian ethnicities I absolutely agree with you. In fact, some schools now consider Vietnamese to be URM (Wisconsin and Colorado come to mind) and other schools consider Pacific Islanders and Filipinos to be URM. The reason you don't see schools considering Cambodian and Laotian immigrants to be URM is because they are 0.09% and 0.08% of the American population, respectively. Perhaps in some regions of the US where they have a larger population they will be considered URM in the future.

The concept of URM has been evolving in the last decade or two. There used to be only 4 ethnic groups considered URM, now there are many more.

Yes, I know that disadvantaged SES gets a boost and I'm completely fine with that. Like I replied above, I'm arguing that you shouldn't give boosts based only on race, since you can't assume everybody of that race is SES disadvantaged.

It's good to know that more groups are considered URMs. Though hopefully soon in the future this kind of separation will no longer be needed.

 

[ridethecliche]

Yes, I know that SES disadvantaged applicants are given a boost and I'm completely fine with that. What I was arguing was that you shouldn't give boosts based only on race, since you can't assume everybody of that race is SES disadvantaged. I've said before that I'm more than fine with using race-blind SES for affirmative action but clearly not everyone agrees.

I'm not trying to demonize URMs. I just think the admissions process is unfair (or they're trying to be fair but are just too lazy to actually implement AA properly). I'm with you in hoping that it will no longer be necessary in the future but it's going to take so much time.

The admissions process is unfair no matter how you look at it. There are so many intangibles for the interview process...

And yes, I think it will sadly take a long time, but our society is getting better.

Yes, I know that disadvantaged SES gets a boost and I'm completely fine with that. Like I replied above, I'm arguing that you shouldn't give boosts based only on race, since you can't assume everybody of that race is SES disadvantaged.

It's good to know that more groups are considered URMs. Though hopefully soon in the future this kind of separation will no longer be needed.

Again, schools look at what people do with the resources they're given. Two applicants of the same race with different scores and SES status will not be considered the same way.