Radiology 2012 applicants

[drizzt3117]

I just think people are too focused on stats in this process. It's a given that applicants to the top programs have top stats. My point was simply that PDs are looking for a lot more than that. In any case, what's important is finding a program you'll feel comfortable with in a location you like to meet your specific goals. My biggest decision at this time is whether I want to do the Holman pathway, I think that will depend a lot on where I wind up.

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[2012mdc]

I just think people are too focused on stats in this process. It's a given that applicants to the top programs have top stats. My point was simply that PDs are looking for a lot more than that. In any case, what's important is finding a program you'll feel comfortable with in a location you like to meet your specific goals. My biggest decision at this time is whether I want to do the Holman pathway, I think that will depend a lot on where I wind up.

I tend to agree but stats are really the only objective thing we have. Can't really have pissing contests over PS's and LOR's

I mentioned this in another post but only 188 rads applicants (US Seniors) in the last charting outcomes had 251+ on Step 1. The top programs get upwards of 700 applications so just having the numbers puts you ahead of the game so to speak.

It's also hard not to focus a lot on numbers when programs like UCSF and UW basically state on their websites that if you have under 240 don't bother applying unless your research cured cancer or you singlehandedly saved thousands of Haitian babies after the quake

 

[jahbrony]

I just think people are too focused on stats in this process. It's a given that applicants to the top programs have top stats. My point was simply that PDs are looking for a lot more than that.

This. #'s get you the interview. The 'other stuff' get you ranked highly.

Que p53's "interview = / = ranked highly, or ranked at all..." Programs are just like applicants. Think about it. You apply to 30-40 places, some top tier, some mid tier, some low tier, because at worst, you want to match, and at best, you want your pick of the litter. I suspect programs are the same way--no one wants to have spots go unfilled or fall far on their rank list.

I mentioned this in another post but only 188 rads applicants (US Seniors) in the last charting outcomes had 251+ on Step 1. The top programs get upwards of 700 applications so just having the numbers puts you ahead of the game so to speak.

only 188? so 429 peeps had a 241+ ....and that was in 2009. I tend to agree with Radiculous in thinking that those #'s are probably higher now. Maybe it's me, but that seems like a lot of solid step 1 scores when you consider most places only interview 70-100 applicants from the 500+ applications they get. (and a lot of those applicants are applying to the same spots).

But to your point, for sure 260 puts you ahead of the game for getting an interview, but what's an interview worth if they don't rank you high enough to match?

 

[2012mdc]

This. #'s get you the interview. The 'other stuff' get you ranked highly.

Que p53's "interview = / = ranked highly, or ranked at all..." Programs are just like applicants. Think about it. You apply to 30-40 places, some top tier, some mid tier, some low tier, because at worst, you want to match, and at best, you want your pick of the litter. I suspect programs are the same way--no one wants to have spots go unfilled or fall far on their rank list.



only 188? so 429 peeps had a 241+ ....and that was in 2009. I tend to agree with Radiculous in thinking that those #'s are probably higher now. Maybe it's me, but that seems like a lot of solid step 1 scores when you consider most places only interview 70-100 applicants from the 500+ applications they get. (and a lot of those applicants are applying to the same spots).

But to your point, for sure 260 puts you ahead of the game for getting an interview, but what's an interview worth if they don't rank you high enough to match?

You're exactly right. This process is tough and can be random. That's why you have top applicants like drizz with 35 pubs/posters and peach with 270+ on both Steps still applying to 25+ programs.

There are a lot of solid step scores. My point was that if you doing very well on Step 1 can get you in the door at a lot of places. Not saying it guarantees it (trust me I'm the last person that thinks that, if you see my posting history you'll see people continually telling me to apply to less programs)

 

[drizzt3117]

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[Radiculous]

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[Radiculous]

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[drizzt3117]

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[Radiculous]

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[drizzt3117]

All i'm saying is that I'm not going to spend a lot of time worrying about the whole process and just try to find somewhere where I'll be happy,

I agree completely (that's why I brought up the letters, because that's one area we still can exert considerable control over). CHOOSE WISELY.

We should all do the PM thing too, when the time is appropriate.

Look, we didn't all get here by being type B personalities. I didn't claw my way into medical school after nearly failing out of high school, and then study until my eyes bled for Step 1, to then be laissez-faire about perhaps the most important career step in my life. You didn't post 11,000 times on SDN, amass a tremendous research record, and then schedule an away rotation at a program widely considered to be the most competitive in the country out of its combination of location and clinical/research reputation, to throw your hands up to fate and then "hope for a good fit." We have all earned the right to be a little neurotic, to crunch the numbers, and maximize our chances for success. May we all live happily ever after.

 

[Radiculous]

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[Radiculous]

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[jahbrony]

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[drizzt3117]

Intriguing, I haven't come up with an initial list simply because it's too early, but Boston or sf would be nice for family reasons.

 

[princess peach]

And I'm going to be honest with myself, worry a lot about the whole process, and generally attempt to maximize every variable still under my control until I'm holding a Match envelope in my hand. I admire your zen, though.

That includes:
-Letters of Recommendation (2 rads is okay, right? how are you going about representing your parallel projects with multiple mentors despite having to also include clinical letters? I figured 2 rads / research + clinical rads elective, 2 clinical was a good split)
-Personal Statement (shorter is better, I'm assuming. Like 500 words short.)
-Interview preparation, grooming, and attire (I know this sounds ridiculous, but I think working out religiously, being tall / reasonably aesthetically pleasing and having a custom-fit suit conveys a sense of professionalism and "alpha" that makes us seem more confident / intelligent. When I walk into a room I am thinking to myself, project utter calm and confidence coupled with friendliness and humility. Mantra throughout third year, worked well. By the way, I firmly believe that fat people are actively discriminated against in the residency match process.)
-Post-interview contact (god, I don't even want to think about that bull****)

this has to be the most absurd post ever. are you being ironic? or are you like this in all seriousness?

 

[cowme]

This is my pre-interview rank list, so to speak...(largely based on location)
1. Northwestern
2. Univ of Chicago
3. UPenn
4. Thomas Jefferson
5.. MGH/Brigham/BID
6.. NYU
7. Cornell
8.. UMich
9. Cleveland Clinic
10. Indiana
11. Wisconsin
Honorable mention: some place outwest (UCSF et. al. - just not sure I want to relocate out there regardless of rep.)

Post-interview? I guess we'll see where I get interviews and what my impressions are

How about you?

Just FYI, make sure you have a handful of less reputable programs as safeties. Make em in cities you like, so if you don't match a research powerhouse, at least you get to be in chicago/nyc. The only time I have ever heard of a strong applicant not matching is when they exclusively applied to top tier programs.

 

[hateroftheyear]

this has to be the most absurd post ever. are you being ironic? or are you like this in all seriousness?

Lol

 

[Radiculous]

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[Radiculous]

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[princess peach]

Haters gonna hate. To answer your original question / sarcastic comment PP, probably a little bit of both. The only reason something as ridiculous as physical appearance was even in my mind was that I put on 15-20 lbs during the horrible hell of third year, and recently had to spend some time cutting back to fit my suits and see my abs again. Which caused me to think about the subjective biases some people (not myself) may have if an extremely overweight person was interviewing. We've all seen the senior attendings fawn over attractive, bubbly females. We've all seen the guy with gelled hair who looks like he came off the set of Jersey Shore and inspires no confidence. Appearances matter, this is life. Call me ridiculous, I'm just keeping it real.

totally misinterpreted me. duh appearances matter, i'm not that naive. but honestly, don't know if you meant it this way, but your post reads like someone calling themselves an alpha male in a well tailored suit and bragging about his abs in an online forum.

 

[Radiculous]

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[Radiculous]

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[Radiculous]

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[MossPoh]

Those random donut stashes are dangerous, aren't they? They might as well leave a bouncing Betty in the lounge.

I've made the active attempt at taking the fruit, but an old banana is not nearly as appealing as the multiple baked goods they leave or the lunches reps bring.

 

[Radiculous]

Those random donut stashes are dangerous, aren't they? They might as well leave a bouncing Betty in the lounge.

I've made the active attempt at taking the fruit, but an old banana is not nearly as appealing as the multiple baked goods they leave or the lunches reps bring.

I have sacrificed my dignity many a time in hospital break rooms. Truly nauseating displays of anxiety-induced gluttony on my surgery rotation.

 

[2012mdc]

Jahbrony, 3rd year grades are pretty important so I don't think you used the best example. You are right though about not taking things for granted. I agree and am applying to 45 programs, some in places I don't wanna be but I gotta be safe

 

[Radiculous]

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[drizzt3117]

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[drizzt3117]

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[DrBowtie]

Another reason I'm trying to be circumspect about #s and qualifications is bc I didn't really want the thread degenerating into a "show and tell" or "whose daddy has a cooler job to bring into 1st grade" (the fireman always won for the most part. I think it could be a lot of help for fellow applicants in describing programs and interviews, though. If anyone would like to know about UCSF or Stanford's programs, feel free to PM me.

RSNA attire for presenting (be it poster or talk) should be suit/tie. I wore polo/slacks when I was just tooling around the conv center and dressed up for networking dinners with attendings/reps.

Worthwhile to go without presenting? I'm involved in a project getting presented but I'm not the presenter. Just thinking about going up for a few days to wander around and check out all the sweet new tech and network a bit.

 

[drizzt3117]

Worthwhile to go without presenting? I'm involved in a project getting presented but I'm not the presenter. Just thinking about going up for a few days to wander around and check out all the sweet new tech and network a bit.

I think it could definitely be worthwhile, just keep in mind like 50,000 or more people come to this conference so you need some people to introduce you to people.

I'll make a post about RSNA as it gets closer, maybe we can arrange some networking for those of us that are going. I have a sweet room at the W lakeshore reserved

 

[2012mdc]

Awesome. I'm very curious to see how much our lists change between the beginning and the end. i.e. Is the interview a huge determinant of program feel, or do we all just end up going on location+reputation?

I think it will change a decent amount especially at the top. I have preconceived notions about programs and locations so I really have to make sure I do this process with an open mind. I have to make sure to remember that visiting somewhere is very different than living there. NYC is on my list of desirable cities but it won't necessarily stay there.

It will be interesting to revisit this thread later.

 

[rem6775]

Looks like I'm a little late to this party but also applying this year.
Step 1: 267
Junior AOA
Grades: All honors except 1 HP in third year and 1 HP in the first year.
No aways
4 LORs: 1 rads, 2 clinical and 1 research (not from a radiologist but related)
Not taking Step 2 CS/CK until later
A couple research projects; paper going in shortly but probably irrelevant at this point
ERAS mostly done, just trying to get all the letters in before September 1 and to finalize the listing of programs.

At this point planning on applying to 45-50 (forget the exact number). I'm sure I'll see some of you on the trail.

 

[Radiculous]

Looks like I'm a little late to this party but also applying this year.
Step 1: 267
Junior AOA
Grades: All honors except 1 HP in third year and 1 HP in the first year.
No aways
4 LORs: 1 rads, 2 clinical and 1 research (not from a radiologist but related)
Not taking Step 2 CS/CK until later
A couple research projects; paper going in shortly but probably irrelevant at this point
ERAS mostly done, just trying to get all the letters in before September 1 and to finalize the listing of programs.

At this point planning on applying to 45-50 (forget the exact number). I'm sure I'll see some of you on the trail.

Really nice work. I would say to apply to fewer programs, but then again I'm at 40 and would be a complete hypocrite. We all should really try and cut it back.

So far I think literally everyone contributing to this thread has had 250s or higher, mostly AOA. Buckle in guys and gals, it's going to be a bumpy ride *puts on air force shades and helmet*

 

[2012mdc]

Really nice work. I would say to apply to fewer programs, but then again I'm at 40 and would be a complete hypocrite. We all should really try and cut it back.

So far I think literally everyone contributing to this thread has had 250s or higher, mostly AOA. Buckle in guys and gals, it's going to be a bumpy ride *puts on air force shades and helmet*

It's just hard to know how competitve this cycle will be.

Unless one has a bulletproof app (high step, AOA, pubs, elite med school) I don't see anything wrong with applying to 40+ programs. Obviously many posters in this thread are competitive applicants so we will be applying to competitive programs.

Although I have a preference, I'm not geographically restricted so I'm applying to top programs all over the country (I think Mayo is the only one that didn't make the cut). I don't want my list to be too top heavy.

It's not like I expect to go on 20+ IV's but if I'm fortunate enough to get that many offers I will graciously decline some and not mess up the process for other applicants.

 

[rem6775]

Really nice work. I would say to apply to fewer programs, but then again I'm at 40 and would be a complete hypocrite. We all should really try and cut it back.

So far I think literally everyone contributing to this thread has had 250s or higher, mostly AOA. Buckle in guys and gals, it's going to be a bumpy ride *puts on air force shades and helmet*

Yeah, the program number is probably a little high, but I'm not particularly geographically limited and will be applying to most of the "top" programs. I think this year will be similar to years past and that we simply have extreme selection bias here. Either way, I'm betting many of you will have more interviews than you can reasonably go to, which is not a completely bad thing.

 

[drizzt3117]

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[GhostOfRoentgen]

what is the national avg for program apps to rads?

 

[Radiculous]

It's just hard to know how competitve this cycle will be.

Unless one has a bulletproof app (high step, AOA, pubs, elite med school) I don't see anything wrong with applying to 40+ programs. Obviously many posters in this thread are competitive applicants so we will be applying to competitive programs.

Although I have a preference, I'm not geographically restricted so I'm applying to top programs all over the country (I think Mayo is the only one that didn't make the cut). I don't want my list to be too top heavy.

It's not like I expect to go on 20+ IV's but if I'm fortunate enough to get that many offers I will graciously decline some and not mess up the process for other applicants.

ANYWAY... if you head over to AuntMinnie you'll see ppl with similar stats applying to 50, 60, even 70+ programs, so yeah it's not like 40 is totally crazy. But I do think most of us will end up regretting the money we wasted on extra app fees. Peace of mind is priceless I guess.

 

[2012mdc]

what is the national avg for program apps to rads?

Matched US seniors averaged a 238 2 yrs ago

ANYWAY... if you head over to AuntMinnie you'll see ppl with similar stats applying to 50, 60, even 70+ programs, so yeah it's not like 40 is totally crazy. But I do think most of us will end up regretting the money we wasted on extra app fees. Peace of mind is priceless I guess.

True and you just don't know which programs will offer you invites and you might really fall in a love with a program that was initially on the chopping block.

In the grand scheme of things an extra 10 programs is only 250. Not much when you consider the importance of this process.

 

[jahbrony]

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[2012mdc]

Yup, 238 in 2009, and for 2010, per st. lukes's:

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]"The NRMP reports that in 2010, for .programs similar to ours, the mean Step 1 score was 234 for the 25th percentile, 240 for the 50th percentile, and 252 for the 75th percentile. "

There's supposed to be a 2011 report released this fall, I suspect the average is now even higher, but we'll see.

What exactly does that mean? How does the NRMP determine which programs are similar? And did you find this on St. Luke's website? That is pretty interesting info

Yeah the 2011 report is supposed to be released this month. I wouldn't be surprised if the avg got as high as 245.

 

[jahbrony]

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[GhostOfRoentgen]

Yeah, I read it here http://www.stlukesrooseveltradiology.org/application-procedures . Also read about their interview process--targeted selection--which didn't seem all that exciting

the overall step 1 average has creeped up from a 221 to a 225 or so. i suspect the radiology average will follow suit, to about a 242.

charting outcomes 2011 is supposed to come out in August. so, any day now.

i really hate studying for step 2ck.

 

[Radiculous]

can we get a quick prelim/TY survey too? as 9/1 nears i want to see what others are doing in my specialty.

thinking like 12 TY and a handful of med prelims as a backup.

 

[jahbrony]

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[Radiculous]

I initially was going to apply to 20 or so TY places--most of them cush and across the country, with the hope of coordinating TYs in places that I receive radiology interviews at (trying to avoid the pain of moving twice). Then I realized two things:

1) many of the programs I'm applying to have a built-in intern year. So if I match at one of those programs, all of these TY interviews are going to be for naught.

2) That it will probably be a scheduling headache to coordinate all of these different interviews out of state. And if I'm going to go through the pain of traveling, I don't really want to do it for TYs.

So, I've just decided to apply to TYs in my area, which comes to around 7 TYs and 2 pre-lim medicine, hoping to interview at no more than 5.

exact same logic. not looking at many integrated programs but with a few backup prelim interviews I am 100% sure to get and nearly 100% sure to match (home programs), plus 4-5 TYs out of the 10-12 I apply to in my region, should be all set.

 

[2012mdc]

can we get a quick prelim/TY survey too? as 9/1 nears i want to see what others are doing in my specialty.

thinking like 12 TY and a handful of med prelims as a backup.

I'm doing 13 TY's and 7 med prelims.

Most of TY's are known to be cush and/or are in good locations so I expect them to be hypercompetitive (read as I don't expect more than 5 TY IV offers, probably less).

Definitely on the high side but location is extremely important to me for intern year

 

[Radiculous]

I'm doing 13 TY's and 7 med prelims.

Most of TY's are known to be cush and/or are in good locations so I expect them to be hypercompetitive (read as I don't expect more than 5 TY IV offers, probably less).

Definitely on the high side but location is extremely important to me for intern year

May I ask... why? It's intern year-- it's going to be some degree of suck, with most hours in the hospital. And you're gone after a year. So why not go the easiest or most convenient place possible, regardless of location

 

[drizzt3117]

I am doing 15 prelim surgery programs, shouldn't be too tough, a lot of them don't even require interviews.