Rank Order List [2013-2014]

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AOA, 260’s,/260’s, H/H in EM x2, EM research. Was initially looking for a place with great academic training, so lots of 4year programs, but decided that I will ultimately do a fellowship anyways. I interviewed at 13 total places, and below are my top 10, but let it be known that I will be incredibly happy next year no matter where I end up.

1. Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center/Harvard Medical School Program
(+)Boston, Excellent Training, Focus on pushing residents, 3rd Years run the ED, excellent EMR, innovative culture, EM focused curriculum, No in-house ortho, Harvard Resources. 3+1 is a fantastic option for individuals interested in fellowships
(-)Colder than CMC/Vandy

2.Vanderbilt University Program
(+)Warm fuzzies, education focus, EM-focused curriculum, close residents, strong international opportunities
(-) Hear that one of the reasons for AM didactics is to offset lower volume

3.Carolinas Medical Center Program
(+)Warm fuzzies, excellent training, great people, low (zero??) boarding times, excellent benefits
(-)Lots of off-service (?? good off-service training),

4. Denver Health Medical Center Program
(+)Probably the best trained residents, new environment, strong leadership focus,
(-) Become the best through brute-force only, no innovation in curriculum, 4 years

5. Oregon Health & Science University Program
(+) Warm fuzzies, great people, wellness focus, healthy area
(-) Weaker training than above.

6. Brigham and Women's Hospital/Massachusetts General Hospital/Harvard Medical School Program
(+)Excellent support for doing what ever it is you want to do, Harvard resources, Boston, strong focus on academic training
(-) 4 years, weaker clinical training it seems, competition for procedures, didn’t really click with their residents & met one who never wants to practice emergency medicine after residency (just seemed odd)

7. Boston Medical Center Program
(+) probably the best clinical training in Boston, Schneider is a great, supportive PD
(-) however training is over 4 years, lacks the resources of the other two

8. Johns Hopkins University Program
(+) Leadership focused, excellent training in Baltimore, new facilities
(-) White-coat deference (Why chair, why?!?], 4 years, Baltimore

9. University of Virginia Program
(+) Great catchment area, higher pt/hour than some other places, seems like it would result in great education, Charlottesville is an excellent town
(-) lots of off-services, Charlottesville itself is pretty remote though

10. Georgetown
(+) Being one-on-one with attendings is top notch! Think the education would be wonderful. PD is fantastic. Innovative culture
(-) DC is not the town for me, lots of driving, expensive, lots of families in the residency, facilities are a little lacking
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Here is my preliminary list. I am only including the programs definitely at the top and definitely at the bottom. There are a whole bunch in the middle that would all be fantastic places to train. I will submit a full list after the match. Good luck everyone!


Top of the List (in no particular order)
Christiana Pros: streamlined curriculum, almost no off-service in last 2 years, 1 month block of nights, tons of elective time, volume and diversity of patients, reputation, huge alumni network, lots of extra funding and perks Cons: location. Strip malls, ugly.
Yale Pros: friendly, smart, laid back residents, ED new and beautiful, lots of diversity, lots of pathology, month in NYC for tox, a lot elective time. Strong emphasis on research with support for anything you want to do. Cons: work schedule. 4 year program, 12 hour shifts . think it was 19 or 20 12-hr shifts per month for interns
Georgetown Pros: residents were great, PD awesome, lots of direct teaching with friendly attendings 1 on 1, 3+1 set up, DC location Cons: lots of driving (in DC traffic) to other sites, home ED on the slow side and not much trauma, new program
Carolinas Pros: great facility, nationally-known program and faculty but very laid back and friendly, cool city low COL, only level 1 trauma game in town, tons of diversity and pathology, 1 hr conferences Cons: a lot of off-service months
Bottom of the list
Maine – Pros: Portland, cool but small little city, ocean, 8 hour shifts Cons: Snobby feel, from the PD and some of the residents. ED is very slow. Limited pathology. Lots of frequent flier drunk patients residents have to manage. Didn’t feel I’d see or do or learn enough here.
BIDMC (Boston) – Pros: Boston. 3+1. ED facility is small but not bad for a city. Excellent graduated responsibility system with PGY-3s really running the ED. Cons: Intense residents. Hierarchical faculty. Academic but incredibly snobby about it. So much driving through traffic to far away community sites. Most of the best trauma goes to BMC. Very poor and limited pediatric experience. (no peds at all at BIDMC - and competing with peds fellows, peds residents, many other learners for peds at boston childrens).
 
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Szent said:
Arnt they switching from 1 hr daily conferences to lumped conferences?
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Yep, they said during my interview day that they're doing lumped conferences now, one day per week.
 
Hi Guys and Gals -- I'm a resident at Georgetown (and really happy here), and just want to clarify a few things that have come up on this thread:

--Our "home ED": We're lucky to actually have 2 of them as they compliment each other really well.
1) Georgetown University Hospital, which we tend to consider our "academic home" given the complex oncology and transplant patients we see here. Our ED here also has integrated peds, lots of high SES patients, along with diplomats and political celebs thrown in the mix so there's somewhat of a community vibe here too. The volume is about 40k/yr but there are only, at most, two residents in the department at any time. While it's not a major trauma center, when something does come in you and your attending are basically the trauma team.
2) Washington Hospital Center, which we tend to think of as our "clinical home" since the volume is high (~90-100k/yr), it's the major trauma/burn center for DC, and the acuity is really high (ie, one of our residents recently intubated 16 patients in a streak of 8 shifts). The vibe here is definitely county but we're fortunate to have great nursing/ancillary staff so you're not drawing blood or taking patients to CT (unless you'd like to). Given the volume and acuity, we spend more time here than our ED at Georgetown.

--"DC Traffic": it's true that there's traffic here, but our two home hospitals (where the vast majority of our rotations are) are only about 4 miles apart. Many residents live in parts of the city between the two hospitals, often making the commute to either hospital ~15-20 minutes. Also, shifts generally start before or after rush hour so the impact of traffic is minimized. The only times you'll need to commute outside the city is for our PICU month and dedicated community peds EM months which, in my experience, is TOTALLY worth the drive (~35 mins). I think being able to rotate thought multiple EDs makes for better training. I interviewed at about 10 places that offered this, and when I compared the driving times between our shops to set-ups at other programs, our commute times were in the middle of the pack.

--Our program being "new": Back in the day Georgetown actually had it's own program (some of these grads are still on faculty), then it combined with GW, and then in 2006 it re-emerged on it's own. Our departments have been training EM residents for something like 20 years and our chair and other faculty are high up in the hospital system admin. So while our program continues to grow (add more residents, fellowships, etc) we're hardly the new kids on the block, have good resources, and are well respected in our hospitals.

OK I'm done blabbing, sorry if I derailed this thread. If anybody has questions about our program, I'd be happy to answer them.

Best of luck to everybody in the match!
 
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How would you rank these 4 progs (UF-Gainesville, UMass, Baystate, UPenn) and why? I'm a single guy, and city / atmosphere / night life / fun things to do / meeting new people and maybe a gf are really important to me. But at the same time I want to make sure when I'm done, I wont be limited on my options of where I can work... and (obviously) want to be well trained, which luckily I don't think will be a problem.

UF-Gainesville
+: Gut reaction= "fun" place, friendly residents & PD, working Gator sports sounds appealing, many fellowships offered in case I'd want to stay for that, spacious ED, large catchment area=GOOD pathology, SAEM/ACEP fully covered for PGY2/3 respectively
-: Far from family (limited by a flight), loved dec weather but dreading the 6mo hot&humid summer, large majority of residents end up staying in FL (which I hear is b/c they want to)...but I don't, and don't have much data on residents being able to leave in the recent past, 80ish% residents are UF-Med grads, everyones Gainesville-stay seems to be "transient" for undergrad/grad training...hard to form long-term relationships?

UMass
+: Closer to family, keep hearing about its amazing U/S exp, HAWAII (maybe its in place to reward residents for enduring Worcester for 3 yrs!), energetic PD with good vision, didn't "connect" well with some residents (idk how much they hang outside work honestly), SAEM/ACEP fully covered for PGY2/3 respectively, track-system
-: It's a frozen tundra from Nov-Aprilish (I've freaking had it with snow/ice), some parts (ex: close to Memorial Hosp) are shady, something about subpar ancillary staff 2/2 unionized nurses?, residents stay 1-2h post-shift to clean-up

Baystate
+: Closer to family, great pathology, tons of trauma (2/2 to rough location), beautiful ED, residents get first-crack at the myriad of fellowships offered
-: Same as UMass minus post-shift clean-up

UPenn
+: IV league/name recognition, personable PD, Guatemala outreach/Maine community-rotation sounded cool too, superior peds experience @ CHOP, nicest residents lounge I've seen
-: 4 yrs (can't decide if its worth it...rotations like resus are cool, psych ED/ward-medicine are not)...most residents end up pursuing a fellowships after anyway, 12h intern shifts are rough, unsure how challenging it is to admit pts. considering top-notch specialties of all kinds in-house (compared to other places)
*** Anyone know what the timeline to complete the Presby shock-trauma-like setup is? And how it'll effect us? Will all traumas be directed there instead of HUP?
 
TimesNewRoman said:
How would you rank these 4 progs (UF-Gainesville, UMass, Baystate, UPenn) and why? I'm a single guy, and city / atmosphere / night life / fun things to do / meeting new people and maybe a gf are really important to me. But at the same time I want to make sure when I'm done, I wont be limited on my options of where I can work... and (obviously) want to be well trained, which luckily I don't think will be a problem.
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Philly still gets plenty of snow and summers can be brutal. The whole trauma program is moving to Penn Presbyterian in February 2015. I don't hear too many folks rave about UPenn EM, it seems a lot of students that rotated there were underwhelmed to some extent (a lot of consulting and patient sent to the ED to be seen by some specialist). I think many are attracted to the name, but in Philly there are (subjectively) better places train, though UPenn likely has the academic/research realm pretty well cornered. Really though, I don't think it is a bad program. I have worked with a number of grads and they were great. Philly does have quite a night life, so getting out and having fun and meeting woman shouldn't be a problem.

It'd be a tough call as far as UMass vs. Baystate. Baystate has fewer residencies, which in my experience tends to translate to EM residents getting more experience with managing ortho, ENT, and ophtho cases more than they would if there were residents in those specialties. UMass has multiple sites, so they do get away from tertiary care academic setting and their US experience is impressive. Down sides are definitely their locations.

UF? Not for me.
 
I always like to peruse the forums this time of year. I remember ROL time during med school. Fun times.

Anyway, I'm a current UMass resident, so I can speak most intelligently about our program. Frankly, it's great. I'm bummed you didn't connect with the residents better. I feel that top to bottom (attendings to staff) we have pretty great people and I couldn't be happier. We work hard. No doubt. But guess what? I want that. 3 years goes by in a hurry and when it's done I want to be prepared. I know I will be.

As far as outside of work, we hang out a lot actually. Residents, nurses, medics, RTs, etc. I wouldn't worry about having things to do. Worcester is Worcester. There's actually quite a few great restaurants and pubs. Boston is 45 min away. It's good to have fun things to do when you're not at the hospital, but at the end of the day it's all about the training, right?

When it comes down to it, you have to go with your gut. I came to the conclusion during the whole interview process that all programs are similar. They have to be, right? That's what the RRC is about. Some have different strengths and weaknesses, but at the end of the day an ACGME accredited EM residency is going to get you where you want to be. I decided then that it needed to be where I'd fit in best and thrive. You have to make the same choice. You'll be fine and you'll end up where you're supposed to.

Happy ranking.


TimesNewRoman said:
How would you rank these 4 progs (UF-Gainesville, UMass, Baystate, UPenn) and why? I'm a single guy, and city / atmosphere / night life / fun things to do / meeting new people and maybe a gf are really important to me. But at the same time I want to make sure when I'm done, I wont be limited on my options of where I can work... and (obviously) want to be well trained, which luckily I don't think will be a problem.

UF-Gainesville
+: Gut reaction= "fun" place, friendly residents & PD, working Gator sports sounds appealing, many fellowships offered in case I'd want to stay for that, spacious ED, large catchment area=GOOD pathology, SAEM/ACEP fully covered for PGY2/3 respectively
-: Far from family (limited by a flight), loved dec weather but dreading the 6mo hot&humid summer, large majority of residents end up staying in FL (which I hear is b/c they want to)...but I don't, and don't have much data on residents being able to leave in the recent past, 80ish% residents are UF-Med grads, everyones Gainesville-stay seems to be "transient" for undergrad/grad training...hard to form long-term relationships?

UMass
+: Closer to family, keep hearing about its amazing U/S exp, HAWAII (maybe its in place to reward residents for enduring Worcester for 3 yrs!), energetic PD with good vision, didn't "connect" well with some residents (idk how much they hang outside work honestly), SAEM/ACEP fully covered for PGY2/3 respectively, track-system
-: It's a frozen tundra from Nov-Aprilish (I've freaking had it with snow/ice), some parts (ex: close to Memorial Hosp) are shady, something about subpar ancillary staff 2/2 unionized nurses?, residents stay 1-2h post-shift to clean-up

Baystate
+: Closer to family, great pathology, tons of trauma (2/2 to rough location), beautiful ED, residents get first-crack at the myriad of fellowships offered
-: Same as UMass minus post-shift clean-up

UPenn
+: IV league/name recognition, personable PD, Guatemala outreach/Maine community-rotation sounded cool too, superior peds experience @ CHOP, nicest residents lounge I've seen
-: 4 yrs (can't decide if its worth it...rotations like resus are cool, psych ED/ward-medicine are not)...most residents end up pursuing a fellowships after anyway, 12h intern shifts are rough, unsure how challenging it is to admit pts. considering top-notch specialties of all kinds in-house (compared to other places)
*** Anyone know what the timeline to complete the Presby shock-trauma-like setup is? And how it'll effect us? Will all traumas be directed there instead of HUP?
Click to expand...
 
TimesNewRoman said:
How would you rank these 4 progs (UF-Gainesville, UMass, Baystate, UPenn) and why? I'm a single guy, and city / atmosphere / night life / fun things to do / meeting new people and maybe a gf are really important to me. But at the same time I want to make sure when I'm done, I wont be limited on my options of where I can work... and (obviously) want to be well trained, which luckily I don't think will be a problem.

UF-Gainesville
+: Gut reaction= "fun" place, friendly residents & PD, working Gator sports sounds appealing, many fellowships offered in case I'd want to stay for that, spacious ED, large catchment area=GOOD pathology, SAEM/ACEP fully covered for PGY2/3 respectively
-: Far from family (limited by a flight), loved dec weather but dreading the 6mo hot&humid summer, large majority of residents end up staying in FL (which I hear is b/c they want to)...but I don't, and don't have much data on residents being able to leave in the recent past, 80ish% residents are UF-Med grads, everyones Gainesville-stay seems to be "transient" for undergrad/grad training...hard to form long-term relationships?

UMass
+: Closer to family, keep hearing about its amazing U/S exp, HAWAII (maybe its in place to reward residents for enduring Worcester for 3 yrs!), energetic PD with good vision, didn't "connect" well with some residents (idk how much they hang outside work honestly), SAEM/ACEP fully covered for PGY2/3 respectively, track-system
-: It's a frozen tundra from Nov-Aprilish (I've freaking had it with snow/ice), some parts (ex: close to Memorial Hosp) are shady, something about subpar ancillary staff 2/2 unionized nurses?, residents stay 1-2h post-shift to clean-up

Baystate
+: Closer to family, great pathology, tons of trauma (2/2 to rough location), beautiful ED, residents get first-crack at the myriad of fellowships offered
-: Same as UMass minus post-shift clean-up

UPenn
+: IV league/name recognition, personable PD, Guatemala outreach/Maine community-rotation sounded cool too, superior peds experience @ CHOP, nicest residents lounge I've seen
-: 4 yrs (can't decide if its worth it...rotations like resus are cool, psych ED/ward-medicine are not)...most residents end up pursuing a fellowships after anyway, 12h intern shifts are rough, unsure how challenging it is to admit pts. considering top-notch specialties of all kinds in-house (compared to other places)
*** Anyone know what the timeline to complete the Presby shock-trauma-like setup is? And how it'll effect us? Will all traumas be directed there instead of HUP?
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Hi there,

I am a current UPennEM chief. As with everyone else posting their rank lists, you have a great group of programs to chose from. You first need to decide if four years is worth it to you. You need to enjoy where you are as this will benefit yourself, your co-residents, and your program.

Regarding some of your comments about Penn, let me clarify a few things. Our grads go into community, academic and fellowship positions. Certainly our elective time allows you to develop a niche outside of clinical ED work during your residency. Last year our grad breakdown was the following: 4 went into community practice, 3 into academic community affiliate, 1 into residency leadership, and 2 into fellowships (UCSF tox and UCinci EMS). This year we have 3 for community, 1 for academic community affiliate, 1 for academic, and 4 for fellowship (UWash CC, Shock Trauma CC, UPenn hyperbarics, Denver Health US). Past years have been more similar to last years class.

We no longer do 12hr shifts as an intern except for a few on weekends. Please see the below regarding our shift breakdown:

"Our shift schedule is rather complex as it is designed to both be circadian and allow for overlapping shifts to minimize signout hassles. We work 18 shifts per month every year. As interns, we work a mix of 10 and 11 hour shifts, with occasional 12 hour weekend shifts (to decrease the number of weekends). As EM2s, we work 10s and 11s. During the first two years, we do 8 8-hour CHOP shifts in 2 week blocks distributed throughout the year. As EM3s, we have both 10 and 8 hour shifts. And as EM4s, they're all 8 hours. As EM3s and EM4s, we have integrated 8 hour CHOP shifts during all of our EM months (2-3 as EM3 and 3-4 as EM4. Our shifts at CHOP as an EM3/4 are all in a senior/supervisory role with no fellow on our team. We're the only residents, including CHOP Peds residents and other EM residents in the city, who rotate at CHOP in this role."

It is NOT difficult at all to admit patients. The biggest problems we have are boarding issues that are likely similar to most busy emergency departments. Other specialties being top-notch does nothing against admitting as we make that final decision. What it does provide is the chance to work with top-notch attendings and residents during our off-service months and then again when the residents rotate through our ED.

Regarding the Presby move, this is slated for Feb 2015. This will only affect the residents in that we will be providing 24/7 senior coverage at Presby rather than limiting the the time to a single month during the PGY2 year. Essentially we become a 2-site program. We will continue to manage ALL trauma airways and have continued involvement in all trauma resuscitations while in the ED. Our trauma months (Trauma as PGY2 &4, SICU as PGY1&3) will continue to function as they have. I am sure they will remain as some of the best off-service rotations we do.

I hope this helps clarify a few things. Don't focus too much on a name. I am biased, but can tell you if you decide on UPenn you will be an extraordinary EM physician. Although I am not a resident at any of the other programs you listed, I am sure the same holds true. As for the residents at Penn, we are exposed to the widest spectrum of patients with incredibly high acuity and complexity. Our grads get their first choice jobs, but mostly they're thrilled they trained at Penn. Please message me with any other questions you may have. Good luck in the match!
 
carbonizedeyesockets said:
Philly still gets plenty of snow and summers can be brutal. The whole trauma program is moving to Penn Presbyterian in February 2015. I don't hear too many folks rave about UPenn EM, it seems a lot of students that rotated there were underwhelmed to some extent (a lot of consulting and patient sent to the ED to be seen by some specialist). I think many are attracted to the name, but in Philly there are (subjectively) better places train, though UPenn likely has the academic/research realm pretty well cornered. Really though, I don't think it is a bad program. I have worked with a number of grads and they were great. Philly does have quite a night life, so getting out and having fun and meeting woman shouldn't be a problem.

It'd be a tough call as far as UMass vs. Baystate. Baystate has fewer residencies, which in my experience tends to translate to EM residents getting more experience with managing ortho, ENT, and ophtho cases more than they would if there were residents in those specialties. UMass has multiple sites, so they do get away from tertiary care academic setting and their US experience is impressive. Down sides are definitely their locations.

UF? Not for me.
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Thank you for your insight to Penn. I am one of the chiefs and wanted to make a few clarifications.

Its unfortunate that you have heard students that have rotated there are underwhelmed. I have been told by sub-Is that they enjoy their time at Penn as they have the opportunity to actually function as an intern. They are the primary provider for the patients they see and do all orders, notes, procedures, presenting to the attendings and signouts.

We are a tertiary referral center and any program with the same setting will have the same issue of patients coming for second opinions by specialists. This is unavoidable and a frustration, but something that challenges you to figure out the best thing you can do for your patient. It's similar to other common frustrations in EM...frequent flyers, pain med seekers, etc.

Any program in Philly is stellar. Each is unique and has different things to offer, but if you train at Temple, Drexel, Einstein, Jeff, Cooper, Christiana, or Penn you will be a stellar EM physician...bottom line. I'll speak to the uniqueness of Penn, which is that we see the widest spectrum of patients imaginable. There is no public hospital in Philly so we see all of the West Philly population in addition to the complex patients typical of a tertiary referral center. Having finished the job interviewing cycle recently, I can tell you that each place I interviewed was thrilled I had trained at Penn. This included community and academic positions,as well as, education fellowships. I would imagine any place is just as thrilled to know a resident trained at any other of the programs in the Philly area as well.

Anyone reading this with questions regarding Penn, please do not hesitate to message me. EM is a wonderful specialty as the vast majority of programs are great. The important thing to recognize is each has strengths and weakness which may not be as evident (especially as a 4th year med student). It's hard if not impossible to know what really matters and what doesn't and ultimately your training needs to be something that fits with your career/life goals. Residency isn't easy so choose to be in a place that will help, inspire, and encourage you to be successful.
 
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Long time lurker, hence this is my first post.

First: I am laughing at all you clowns who are afraid of posting your lists before the deadline, as if seeing somebody ranking your program highly/wherever will cause you to change yours. It boggles my mind how silly that is and really demonstrates a profound lack of understanding of the match algorithm. Also speaks volumes of insecurity.. alas, this is SDN and I shouldn't be surprised.

About me: California medical school, southern california native. Step 1: 240s and 2: 260s. Honors in IM third year. No honors on my two subinternships (home and socal away). Outstanding SLOEs, but like I said, no honors. Two published EM research project. Goal is to stay in California somewhere.

Rank List:

1) Harbor-UCLA
Positives: Location, county training, excellent teaching faculty, very happy residents, new ED is opening very soon
Negatives: None

2) UCLA/Olive-View
Positives: Location
Negatives: 12 hour shifts, academic program

3) Highland aka Alameda County
Positives: 8 hour shifts (!!!), Location (would enjoy moving to the east bay), county training
Negatives: None

4) Stanford
Positives: 3 years, Location
Negatives: Academic

5) UCSF-SFGH
Positives: Location
Negatives: Academic, but can survive for the name thus job prospects

6) Loma Linda
Positives: 3 years, friendliest people I've met on the interview trail, supportive residency, county training, not academic
Negatives: Location (though still socal)

7) Kaiser San Diego
Positives: New program (unopposed learning), 3 years, very supportive administration, seems to be a guaranteed Kaiser job, no academics
Negatives: New program (could be gambling with my career)

8) Kaweah Delta
Positives: 3 year program, CEP funded, relatively new program which seems to have prepared their first class well
Negatives: Location - Visalia is not the ideal place to live, though close to a lot of outdoor activities at closeby national parks

9) LAC/USC
Positives: Location, county training
Negatives: 12 hour shifts all 4 years, very intense program, homogenous non-diverse residency class, rumors of internal politics

10) Denver Health
Positives: None, though would rather go here than not match
Negatives: Hardest working residents of all programs I visited, weird gut feeling during interview day, Location (Denver is great, but it isn't California! I hate the cold)

11) UCSF/Fresno
Positives: county-style training, supportive residency
Negatives: I think everybody knows this one.. Worst location. Would rather be in Visalia for 3 years than here for 4. Would rather suffer at Denver Health than go here. Air quality was terrible, people in Fresno are conservative and ass-backwards, and homeownership/cost of living is not a concern for me.

I know there are a lot of us West Coasters, so lets discuss some of these programs!!! My career goals are pretty much to be a community ED doc. I don't have dreams of becoming some Crit Care Trauma god or anything like that. Would be satisfied doing urgent care truthfully!
 
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EMhopeful69 said:
First: I am laughing at all you clowns who are afraid of posting your lists before the deadline, as if seeing somebody ranking your program highly/wherever will cause you to change yours. It boggles my mind how silly that is and really demonstrates a profound lack of understanding of the match algorithm. Also speaks volumes of insecurity.. alas, this is SDN and I shouldn't be surprised.
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Easy there, cowboy. It's just a matter of personal preference. I know in all likelihood it won't make any difference, but I don't see why it's such an affront to you.
 
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I would love to hear from Philly people, or Philly residents about their programs. I am a little conflicted on how to rank some of them. Specifically Thomas Jefferson vs. Albert Einstein. I know a big thing is 3 vs. 4, but that doesn't matter to me much. How is the training and experiences at each program? Are people generally happy? Interview day only gives you a little glimpse, so it would be nice to hear from some current residents.
 
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11) UCSF/Fresno
Positives: county-style training, supportive residency
Negatives: I think everybody knows this one.. Worst location. Would rather be in Visalia for 3 years than here for 4. Would rather suffer at Denver Health than go here. Air quality was terrible, people in Fresno are conservative and ass-backwards, and homeownership/cost of living is not a concern for me.
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I'd like to hear more about Fresno as a location. I really liked the program and the residents but I keep hearing people say such negative things about the location. However, negative remarks seem to mostly come from people from California. So Fresno doesn't represent the 'best' of California. . . no water, not ideal weather etc. But is it really that unlivable of a place. I was attracted by the cost of living and the access to the outdoors. Any thoughts?
 
chet said:
I'd like to hear more about Fresno as a location. I really liked the program and the residents but I keep hearing people say such negative things about the location. However, negative remarks seem to mostly come from people from California. So Fresno doesn't represent the 'best' of California. . . no water, not ideal weather etc. But is it really that unlivable of a place. I was attracted by the cost of living and the access to the outdoors. Any thoughts?
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It's really not that bad when you're coming from outside of california. It's a town with a population of 500k and cost of living is dirt cheap for California. It's just that when you've lived in San Francisco or San Diego your entire life, your perspective is very skewed and your standards are out-of-whack (as in my case!).

Fresno is in no way "unlivable" - it's actually pretty nice if you are a homebody, or have a wife/family. Access to the outdoors is kind of a crapshoot up in Fresno. While, yes, you do have access to things, everything is at least two hours away and that's in one direction. So if you have hopes to go hiking in some nice mountains, that's a 4 hour round trip.

Air quality is important to me, and the haze in Fresno looked pretty bad. Visibility is poor when I was on the helicopter pad during my interview, and that really turned me off.
 
In case you didn't realize this, the programs have already submitted their rank lists. Nothing can change now.
 
hmm thought their submission deadline was same as ours?
 
littlejuan said:
I would love to hear from Philly people, or Philly residents about their programs. I am a little conflicted on how to rank some of them. Specifically Thomas Jefferson vs. Albert Einstein. I know a big thing is 3 vs. 4, but that doesn't matter to me much. How is the training and experiences at each program? Are people generally happy? Interview day only gives you a little glimpse, so it would be nice to hear from some current residents.
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In Philly the best clinical programs are Temple and Cooper, in my humble opinion. I have no interest in a 4 year program so haven't researched Penn, Jeff and Einstein much.
 
fahimaz7 said:
In case you didn't realize this, the programs have already submitted their rank lists. Nothing can change now.
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It doesn't matter - whether they've submitted or not is IRRELEVANT to the applicant.

Their rank list is a black box as far as applicants are concerned and whether they're changing it up at the last minute or have submitted it two weeks ago should have NO bearing on your list. If a program has sent you an email that says your 'ranked to match' well, we all know how to take that (cough cough with a grain of salt!!!)
 
golghiapparatus said:
In Philly the best clinical programs are Temple and Cooper, in my humble opinion. I have no interest in a 4 year program so haven't researched Penn, Jeff and Einstein much.
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Thanks, but that doesn't really help me. I was specifically wondering about Albert Einstein vs TJ.
 
BoardingDoc said:
Where are you getting this data from?
Click to expand...

Most programs rank well ahead of the deadline. The two places that I'm intimately familiar with ranked at the beginning of the month and submitted it. They have 100-250 applicants to rank, list, recheck, etc.. no one waits till the last moment to do this. They've been working all year to get this right.
 
EMdoc10 said:
hmm thought their submission deadline was same as ours?
Click to expand...

Our deadline is Wednesday. And we wait until then to post to NRMP. Someone always has a last minute doubt about where student X was placed and we review the list for the 90th time. The schools are just as paranoid about who we get as you students are about where you go! However, unless your screen name is your real name, your avatar is your ID badge photo and you sign off as Univ of XX Class of 2014 we have no way of knowing who you are so say what you want when you want.
 
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DO student, Steps 230+/250+ probably top third of my class, not sure what my EM grades were. Applied to $700+ worth of programs, got 13 invites, and went to 12. Main factors in my ROL – location and job/fellowship prospects. Interested in a fellowship after residency, but who knows. Want to work in the NYC metro area after residency/fellowship. Also, diners, drive-ins, and dive restaurants near the program affected my rankings more than I would like to admit.


1) nyhq - (+) very diverse patient population, good salary and benefits, subsidized housing nearby for interns, great people here, great chinese and korean food in flushing, short trip to the city, ancillary staff much better than most other nyc hospitals, ryder trauma rotation seems better than shock trauma (miami is def nicer than b-more and you get more autonomy/procedures at ryder), longitudinal trauma and peds experience (best way to learn IMO), residents all come out well trained and get jobs wherever they want (chief just got a job in austin). (-) focus seems more on learning by doing rather than didactics, facilities could use a good cleaning and some new equipment, some financial issues with owing CMS money (likely from that stupid 2 midnight rule) so the intern class is being decreased from 8 to 6 spots.

2) downstate - (+) really focused on churning out resident leaders, awesome faculty, great pathology, county + university EDs, but not a very diverse patient population. Amazing training though, one of the few places left in nyc with significant penetrating trauma, most people go into academics or fellowships, well respected program (I think they accidentally sent me an invite and forgot to rescind it), mini-fellowship will set you up to do whatever you want after residency, bk has lots of great stuff to do/see/eat, residents work hard but are very happy and energetic, would have been my #1 if not for the extra year of residency (-) needs more nurses, rent in the nice areas of bk is too high, parking and driving in bk blows, hipsters are the worst, 3 years at Kings would make a beast of a clinician so the 4th year just seems like overkill. The issues surrounding LICH are a very real concern if Downstate can’t get LICH off of its books.

3) upstate - (+) syracuse joining the ACC moved this one up my list, especially after their win over duke. EM residents get to work carrier dome games, concerts, etc., plenty of time to read/live, 3 months of elective time, most residents go into fellowships, exposure to full spectrum of ED practice settings, excellent peds experience, got a good vibe from the place and everyone seemed really happy (-) interns at the interview did seem to express some difficulty getting procedures, but may be non-issue as you progress, u/s did not seem to be a focus here, only 160 hours per 4 week block as an intern so I am concerned you aren’t spending enough time in the ED overall, only 2 critical care blocks, syracuse is cold and it snows a ton. Hard to gauge the kind of pathology they get here and how well trained the residents are

4) metrohealth/CCF - (+) possibly the best training of any 3 yr program in the country - busy county program + cleveland clinic zebras and academics + community ED rotation, tactical EMS stuff is pretty cool (train with SWAT and firefighters), 6 triple D spots in the area, really low cost of living, OPERS will allow you to finish residency with over 30k in retirement funds depending on how much you contribute, CCF is absolutely incredible, 3 pro sports teams in the city (-) cleveland is... not ideal, no alumni worked in NYC in the last 15 years (personal concern of mine), they have the browns, cavs, and indians

5) siuh - (+) amazing salary for a resident, well-rounded curriculum (though I do question the value of a couple of rotations), nice people, great facilities, recent grads have gotten pretty solid community jobs and fellowships, track options and elective time similar to downstate’s “mini-fellowship” but in a 3 year program, regional burn center (-) doesn’t have a great rep yet since it is a pretty new program, trauma experience seems a bit lackluster, staten island has nothing to do but eat, get fat, and fist pump

6) rwj - (+) interview with the chief of the ED was meh, but really enjoyed talking to everyone else, best peds hospital in NJ apparently, lots of ED time, seems very structured and faculty seem determined to make this program a force to be reckoned with, rutgers is in the big ten now, so they get to play mich/osu, PD also set up maimo's EM residency so she knows what she's doing. (-) pay is kind of low for the cost of living, trauma surgery rotation apparently is a legit surgery rotation where you scrub in on surgeries (not my idea of time well spent), only one hospital to train in, pretty new program only graduating its second class this year

7) albany - (+) like their curriculum, well established program with alumni all over the place (only a couple of states do not have alumni), lots of ED time, people were pretty chill, gave us a $5 starbucks card during the interview, apparently they get lots of cool trauma from farming accidents (-) the city seems pretty desolate. cleveland actually seemed a lot more vibrant and fun.

8) jps - (+) great weather, no state income tax, busy county hospital, peds rotations at children's medical in dallas, ft. worth seems to be a very up and coming area, people were cool, threshold for ED thoracotomy seemed very low, great facilities, tons of u/s machines (I think they had machines more than the 3 PA programs combined) and great ancillary staff, 12+ triple D joints if you include all of the DFW area, cowboy boots for all residents, really really liked it here (-) no longitudinal peds, too many off-service rotations for my liking, seemed like it might be difficult to get out of Texas after residency, otherwise this program would have been in my top 5

9) st. lukes bethlehem - (+) lots of (maybe too much) critical care time, really nice people, attendings and residents are legit friends, conference was pretty good, low cost of living and solid salary/benefits, good juju from this place, critical care fellowship that usually takes one of their own (-) bethlehem isnt as bad as I thought it would be but still not great, lacking diversity in patients, heard secondhand stories about this program that caused some concern for the training here, dual accreditation but kind of weird because the AOA side is 4 years while ACGME side is 3 years.

10) hackensack - (+) one of the top hospitals in the NYC metro area as per US News and World Report, but first residency program here, enthusiastic administration, faculty was pretty chill, nice facilities, solid benefits, near hoboken/jersey city and NYC (-) their “sim lab” looked like they put it together the day of our tour, still ironing out a lot of details of the curriculum/program since the current intern class is the first class, hoboken/jersey city are nice but THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH, trauma experience might be lacking

11) lehigh valley - (+) very well supported and funded by the hospital, very focused on didactics, beautiful facilities, EM runs the ICU with lots of critical care time, pretty cush schedules, residents seem well prepared, current ACEP president is on faculty here (-) little diversity in patient pop, one interviewer really gave me an unpleasant serial killer/pedophile vibe (maybe I've been watching too much SVU?), only “moonlighting” opportunity is to teach ACLS classes, lots of off-service rotations to fit AOA requirements (meaning floor months on call), seems like some residents were having trouble getting jobs where they wanted

12) geisinger - (+) old, well established program, gorgeous facilities, nice people, great scheduling for PGY2/3 which gives you like 3 or 4 days off in a row every like 10 days or something like that, cloud based u/s so all your scans are automatically saved and you can be RDMS certified much more easily (-) couldn’t really find many alumni outside of PA, way too rural for me. Literally passed by more livestock than people on the drive there. Had some concerns about their volume/acuity
 
Love your sports reasonings dude! Hipsters are the worst:cool:
 
I would like to add, if Kyrie Irving doesn't re-sign with the cavs this year, then there's literally no athlete in cleveland worth watching. Except for on the other teams they're playing
 
My stats: 230s/240s. AOA. Top tier school back east. Honors in both EM sub-Is. Originally from the West Coast so Im trying to get back to Cali. I can no longer deal with the polar vortex

1. Highland: Pros - County program with excellent faculty, residents seem well trained and are extremely happy, moonlighting opportunities available, they rotate at many different nearby hospitals, high-pay for residents. Cons - No real ones that I could find. Its my #1.
2. UCSF: Pros - Mixed Academic/County, Tons of Research/Global-Health funding, the new county hospital being built in 2 years will definitely boost the program's prowess, Well-renowned faculty in EM. Cons - Still relatively new department in UCSF landscape, split trauma airway with Anesthesia, residents look homogenous
3. Stanford: Pros - Mixed Academic/ County, they have tons of $$$, loads of fellowships, really liked the residents there. Cons - 3 year program, Its a division under surgery and not its own department, 12 hour shifts, Distance between training sites.
4. Harbor UCLA: Pros - Residents are happy and seem very well-trained, New ED, well-established faculty, outstanding county exposure, they handle all airway, share procedures with trauma. Cons - Fellowships dont seem very well resourced, resident salary on the low end, distance between other training sites.
5. UCSF-Fresno: Pros - Very well trained residents, mixed pathology w/ rural and urban population, county type program with private hospital amenities, cheap cost of living. Cons - Conferences need work, did not feel very academically rigorous, living in Fresno, few fellowships
6. USC: Pros - County program, high volume/acuity, very well trained residents, powerhouse EM program Cons - 12 hour shifts, residents seem overworked & tired (dropped lower on my list b/c of this)
7. UCLA-Olive: Pros - Residents are very happy, support for research/global health endeavors, renowned faculty, organized and very polished skill sessions. Cons - 12 hr shifts, distance between training sites, case conference/didactics were average, small amt of diversity
8. UCSD: Pros - Residents appear very content and happy, San Diego is beautiful, great support from faculty, good mix of pathology. Flight medicine. Cons: Low volume, trauma is run very differently than at any other program I visited,
9. UW: Pros - Seattle is a beautiful place to live, lots of institutional support for the program, TONS of trauma, flight medicine Cons - Very new program which made me unclear how the residents would fare after graduation, otherwise it would have been higher on my list. Hard for me to leave Cali
10. NYU-Bellevue
11. Boston Medical Center
12. Columbia
13. BIDM
14. Brigham-MGH
15. Georgetown
 
MD applicant from west coast, *not* AOA or 250+ board scores...

1) OHSU
2) Highland
3) UCLA-O/V
4) BW/MGH
5) Arizona
6) UNM
7) UCSD
8) UW
9) Michigan
10) Davis
11) Utah
12) Maricopa
13) USC
14) Cincy
 
Anyone know the percentage chance of matching at your number 1 or number 2 for EM last year?
 
Just "certify" and let it sit?! No submit button?:nailbiting:
 
Certify is the equivalent. Makes you nervous though, eh?
 
250s/260s. Honors on both of my EM rotations. I would truly be happy at 1-7. I went on 13 interviews total. These are my top 7.

1. Carolinas
(+) Training, residents, faculty and hospital are excellent. They may have more off service rotations than most, but every year the residents have the option to make changes and don’t. Residents are top notch but still know how to have a good time outside of the hospital.
(-) ?? Nothing that would have any impact on my decision

2. Palmetto Health
(+) Some of the nicest faculty/residents I encountered. Dr. Cook is a stand up guy. The pod system and 1-1 resident/faculty ratio within each pod is great. I fought for a while with myself whether to rank Palmetto #1…
(-) ?? Nothing that would have any impact on my decision

3. Orlando Health -
(+) Again awesome people. I had a great time meeting everyone at dinner. Even the PD came out, said hi, and made sure to have a short chat with all of the applicants there. Another place where it seems like the residents have healthy personal lives.
(-) I have a hard time coming up with negatives anywhere. I can't help it.

4. UAB
5. UF-Jax
6. Emory
7. UVA
 
Non traditional student, mostly honors in clinical years, 230s/260s on Step 1&2, 3 great SLORS, 3 EM rotations HP/H/HP, 29 apps, 24 invites, went on 12 interviews. Would be happy with any of my top 5.

1. UF-Jax
2. MUSC
3. Corpus Christi
4. Eastern Virginia
5. USF
 
About me: West Coast, unranked school, Step 1 well below average, Step 2 a bit above average, 3 EM rotations: 2 HP, 1 H.

1. Utah: Did a rotation here and absolutely loved it.
Pros: Location, location, location. Super fun group of residents that take full advantage of the outdoors and are social as a group. Fun, accessible PD who is open to input and change when needed, and there’s a good amicable relationship between residents and attendings in general. Ancillary support staff is helpful and friendly. An impressive faculty and strong didactics.
Cons: Not much cultural diversity, both among the patients and in general, but Salt Lake was more tolerable than I had anticipated. A fair number of procedures are handed off to other specialties (ie ortho and trauma), 22 shifts/month intern year is more than most of my other programs.

2. Allegheny General:
Pros: The PD was a big draw for me here. She just seemed very approachable and invested in the residents. All of the residents I met were fun and seemed to get along well. Strong ultrasound and off-service roations. Pittsburgh was new to me, but surprisingly nice. It has many benefits of a big city, but a lot of the residents live in affordable houses (as opposed to apartments) only a 10 minute or so commute away.
Cons: Possible traffic issues depending on where you live. Also, this sounds silly, but I’m kind of nervous about how many steep streets they have, given that they do have actual winters with freezing temperatures.
3. West Virginia:
Pros: Again, the PD and the resident-resident and resident-attending relationships were a big plus for me here. There are some decent outdoor recreation options. Strong ultrasound and international opportunities. 3 weeks + 5 days for holidays of vacation per year. Scribes help to cut down on staying late to finish charting 2nd and 3rd year.
Cons: Small town could mean few job opportunities for my spouse. It also leads to awful radio stations.
4. Las Vegas: Rotated here.
Pros: Solid academics, county-style pathology and patients, but with a bit more administrative and ancillary support than some county programs. Close to home for me.
Cons: June, July, and August weather. Divided trauma and peds departments make for isolated experiences. 12 hour shifts.

5. U of Arkansas:
Pros: Strong leadership from diverse (and impressive) backgrounds makes for a less inbred program than I expected. Good moonlighting opportunities. Low cost of living. Access to the great outdoors (but better if you’re a hunter or something, which I’m not).
Cons: Flat landscape, in the unfamiliar (to me) South. New leadership—while they were great on interview day, it’s hard to say if all of their plans will be realized. Currently 12 hour shifts (although they are considering switching to 10s).
6. Kaweah Delta:
Pros: PD with good resident-minded decisions, nice facilities, few other specialties to compete with for procedures, etc. 4 weeks vacation per year, and okay access to the mountains.
Cons: New program that probably still has many growing pains to go, and unknown how grads will fair in the job/fellowship market. White coats expected (this was a surprisingly big deal for me as I wound around the interview trail). Lots of offservice time. Likely going to switch to 12 hour shifts. Trauma rotation is combined with general surgery, which seems very strange. I don’t really feel the need to get more lap chole experience at this point. Location: I am not a fan of the central valley, the air quality is bad, and CA has crazy high state taxes.
7. Einstein in Philadelphia: rotated here.
Pros: Strong off-service and international opportunities, longitudinal peds experience. Split didactics for first/second and third/fourth years is an interesting idea. 3 weeks +1 week for holidays off per year.
Cons: 4 year program. Location: high cost of living, big city living isn’t my style, so I’d have to commute from the suburbs. Residents did not seem to hang out at all outside of work. Facilities left a bit to be desired. The hierarchy of attendings to residents was very obvious in some cases. I tried to introduce myself 3 times to one attending during my rotation, and the first time he turned away from my outstretched hand, the others he just stared at me, and I finally gave up. Interns present to seniors.

8. East Carolina:
Pros: Closer to the beach than I’ve ever lived. Low cost of living. They have moonlighting options with some graduated supervision, which would be a nice bridge to autonomy. Few other residencies to compete with.
Cons: Location: the whole town just seemed rundown. Few job options for my spouse. White coats required. The residents I sat with at dinner were not my style.

9. Wayne State/Sinai Grace:
Pros: Lots of pathology with high acuity and few other residencies leads to strong residents by graduation.
Cons: Was there during the polar vortex, which didn’t help Detroit’s image. They seem to focus much more on moving patients than on learning opportunities. Residents reported carrying 12+ patients at a time, and although they’re scheduled for 8.5-9 hour shifts, they frequently stay for 13 hours to try to finish charting. Staff is stretched thin, so residents end up doing transport/IVs/foleys. White coats required.
 
Hey guys -

If anyone who is putting their partial lists online, PM me the full one. I will likely run some numbers on them if I get enough.
 
golghiapparatus said:
Not the "power score" again! I beg of you.
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Hey! Don't rip on the power score.

It's interesting to see how these programs stack up against each other (though admittedly with a limited n). At worst, it's a fun pastime to increase or decrease neuroticism until the 21st.
 
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DO. 230's/250's. Applied 50+, invited 30ish, interviewed 14.

1)

2)

3)

4) Cooper

5) Wake Forest

6) Cook County

7) Las Vegas

8) Maricopa
 
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Stats: Top med school, true pass/fail, Step 1/2 >260, no research, applied to 35 programs and received 21 invites, interviewed at 12. Location was very important for me. I was fortunate to interview at some really well-regarded programs and would be happy to end up at any program on my list.

1) Harbor-UCLA: (+) Acuity, county, faculty, reputation, new ED, lots of Spanish (maybe not a + for everyone) and a very appreciative pt population. (-) Recently changed to 4 years (mostly so that they could staff their new giant ED), COL.
2) Loma Linda: (+) In my opinion one of the most underrated programs in the country. 3 years, PD, county/academic split, best peds exposure on the trail, international opportunities. (-) Location, ED small and cramped.
3) USC: (+) Essentially identical to Harbor. (-) I really don’t want to work 12s if I can avoid it, otherwise an amazing program.
4) Stanford: (+) County/academic/community split, faculty, resources, location, 3 years. (-) Most time spent at Stanford (not as interested in working in big tertiary center), COL (though highest pay on the trail).
5) UCLA/Olive View: (+) County/academic split, faculty, amazing PD, name recognition. (-)Too much time in big tertiary setting, COL.
6) Vanderbilt
7) Denver
8) UCSD
9) Highland
10) Kaiser SD
11) UCSF-Fresno
12) UCI
 
MDingo said:
Hey! Don't rip on the power score.

It's interesting to see how these programs stack up against each other (though admittedly with a limited n). At worst, it's a fun pastime to increase or decrease neuroticism until the 21st.
Click to expand...
=) No worries! Neuroticize away!
 
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