Ranking of residency programs

[thenappa2001]

I have noticed that many people in this forum talk about tier I, top tier, low-tier, etc. surgical residency programs. Does anyone have any links to a rating system for surgical residency programs? Is there one?

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[SocialistMD]

1. Before evaluating a residency program for its "tier," first decide what you want out of a residency. If you want to do be a typical community general surgeon, then the "top tier" programs for you will be different than if you want to be the chairman at Duke.

2. Remember that any accredited program will meet the requirements the ACS has determined necessary to be "qualified" to practice surgery.

3. All that said, I think the "rankings" of residency programs is pretty much individualized to each person based on what s/he thinks. There are the Mass Generals, the Dukes and the Michigans that everyone knows. Then there are the Pittsburghs, the Cincinnatis and the UT-Southwesterns that are strong academic programs with good reputations, but not quite legendary ones. Finally, you'll find that most people who concern themselves with ranking programs will put community programs at the bottom of the list because they tend to be a tad less competitive.

I know this doesn't really give you any direction, but I hope it helps to clarify the fact that there really isn't any standard by which people "rank" surgery programs other than a little ego and a lot of personal feeling.

 

[geekgirl]

all the same. for big name, academic places, ya gotta think:
mgh, hopkins, upenn, duke, ucsf

next:
cincinatti, pittsburgh, michigan, washington, gwu.

or am i wrong?
please correct any misguided assumptions. i need more scoop myself.

 

[dry dre]

I think SocialistMD hit it right on all the points.

The internet, and in particular forums such as this, can create an "echo chamber" effect such that the ranking of tiers takes on a life of its own. Seemingly lost is the assessment of the capability of docs graduating from the respective programs (which can't vary by a significant amount anyhow). Maybe I define 'significant' different than most people.

I think this is analogous to the stock market these days where stock value is more linked to perception of stock value than by profits/earnings ratios.

On one aspect of "ratings".... Mayo is never top ranked on SDN, but I'd bet that to say that you are "Mayo trained" will get you more patient respect than any other individual program (ie patients rate it the highest).

 

[Wondering]

Tier 1a - MGH, Hopkins, Penn, Duke, Brigham, Washington
Tier 1b - UCSF, Michigan, UW, UCLA
Tier 1c - Pittsburgh, Baylor, UTSW

 

[SurgRes2B]

all the same. for big name, academic places, ya gotta think:
mgh, hopkins, upenn, duke, ucsf

next:
cincinatti, pittsburgh, michigan, washington, gwu.

or am i wrong?
please correct any misguided assumptions. i need more scoop myself.

I think that you have misplaced a couple there...

I would describe the top tier as:

Hopkins, MGH, Duke, Michigan, UCSF

Middle tier:

UPenn, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Brigham, UWashington, Columbia

Lower middle tier:

Stanford, Vanderbilt, Iowa, UCLA

This is obviously not gospel, but I have based some of this on meetings with the faculty at my institution, talking with residents at my institution, and senior classmates who interviewed around the country this past year. Hope this helps...

 

[jshaw]

I think that you have misplaced a couple there...

I would describe the top tier as:

Hopkins, MGH, Duke, Michigan, UCSF

Middle tier:

UPenn, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Brigham, UWashington, Columbia

Lower middle tier:

Stanford, Vanderbilt, Iowa, UCLA

This is obviously not gospel, but I have based some of this on meetings with the faculty at my institution, talking with residents at my institution, and senior classmates who interviewed around the country this past year. Hope this helps...

Nice work SurgRes...I think that I would totally second that assessment!

 

[MDhunter]

I'll give...

Cream of the Crop: Hopkins, MGH, Wash U, Michigan, Duke

The next layer: UCSF, Penn, Brigham, Columbia, UVA

Rounding it out: Pitt, Cinci, Emory, U Washington, Vandy, UAB

Honorable mention: UCLA, Colorado, Cornell

 

[tom_jones]

Nice work SurgRes...I think that I would totally second that assessment!

Iowa - I don't think so. Iowa sux

 

[Flatus?]

Based on 2 components: overall reputation and reputation for produceing well trained general (all areas) surgeons.

Top: Hopkins, MGH, BandW, UCSF, Wash U, U Wash, Pittsburgh

Next: UAB, Duke, UNC, Vandy, Cinci, Louisville, Michigan, Penn, Emory, UTSW, Baylor, Loyola, UChicago

Some have great names, others have great training, but if you are hell-bent on obtaining both of the above without thinking about your ability to live in the surrounding area (ie Mayo-cows and cold// and nada for trauma btw) you'll be one pissed off surgeon when you leave in 5-7 years.