Rant - People who underestimate me

[missmd123]

So this is going to be a rant and I don't mean for it to amount to more than just that and maybe y'all can share your experiences.

Basically I'm visiting relatives for the 4th of July with family (against my will) and my uncles who are doctors come up to me and ask me how college is going and how preparing to apply to medical school next year has been. I tell them good and then they ask me what my GPA is and I say 3.65 but I'm hoping to raise it to a 3.67/3.68 before graduating. They then both tell me "oh well you might want to consider taking the DAT or LSAT. You definitely don't have a shot for CA schools and you'd be lucky if you got in anywhere in the U.S. You're just not unique enough to get into medical school."

Okay so I'm a pretty stubborn person and beyond that I don't put up with people's **** so you can imagine the frustration I feel when they tell me this and I can't rip them a new one because my mom would scold me for not being lady-like.

But what the hell?! Okay first of all they barely know me, how the hell can they say I have no shot based SOLELY on my GPA and their opinion of me as not being "unique".

Reminds me of the horrible pre-med advisors at my school who told me I have no shot back in my freshman year when I had a 3.75...

God it's just so frustrating because I know they're judging me based on the fact that I'm a woman who likes to do my makeup lol.

Has anyone had similar experiences? Sigh. End rant.

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[amapples]

So this is going to be a rant and I don't mean for it to amount to more than just that and maybe y'all can share your experiences.

Basically I'm visiting relatives for the 4th of July with family (against my will) and my uncles who are doctors come up to me and ask me how college is going and how preparing to apply to medical school next year has been. I tell them good and then they ask me what my GPA is and I say 3.65 but I'm hoping to raise it to a 3.67/3.68 before graduating. They then both tell me "oh well you might want to consider taking the DAT or LSAT. You definitely don't have a shot for CA schools and you'd be lucky if you got in anywhere in the U.S. You're just not unique enough to get into medical school."

Okay so I'm a pretty stubborn person and beyond that I don't put up with people's **** so you can imagine the frustration I feel when they tell me this and I can't rip them a new one because my mom would scold me for not being lady-like.

But what the hell?! Okay first of all they barely know me, how the hell can they say I have no shot based SOLELY on my GPA and their opinion of me as not being "unique".

Reminds me of the horrible pre-med advisors at my school who told me I have no shot back in my freshman year when I had a 3.75...

God it's just so frustrating because I know they're judging me based on the fact that I'm a woman who likes to do my makeup lol.

Has anyone had similar experiences? Sigh. End rant.

This is extremely common. Just let your success speak for itself.

I found it better to just not tell applying you're applying to med school at all…

Some asshat once was like "good luck getting into med school if you don't have a 4.0."

 

[EthylMethylMan]

Woooah. Assuming you're not paraphrasing them, that's ridiculous. Yeah, Cali schools are especially competitive, but your GPA is definitely good enough assuming you have a good MCAT and good ECs. Don't let it get to you, they really don't seem to know what they're talking about.

 

[maroonspinstress]

Same boat I also have a 3.65, CA resident. Made the decision to skip all my intro classes at my Ivy League school so my sGPA is almost all upper level science classes...This may have been a big mistake for medical school since I gave up some easy As, but honestly I don't really regret it, and can't really bring myself to even want to regret it. I loved the classes I took and learned a lot, even if I didn't get great grades. Ah well...good luck to you and let's hope we all pull through this cycle!

 

[Syns]

I'm sorry you had to have such an uncomfortable conversation but I must also say that you seem to be missing an appropriate ability to gauge insult. This experience, as described, comes in at an astonishing 0/10. We all come from privilege, having been able to obtain a higher education, but many of your peers in medical school will have traveled a significant amount of distance to stand in the space you were born into. Just be mindful when you rant about having the opportunity to engage in conversation with physicians at a family gathering.

 

[tortelliniboy]

At some point it's fun being underestimated because then there will be lower expectations on you lol

 

[mk04447]

I'm sorry you had to have such an uncomfortable conversation but I must also say that you seem to be missing an appropriate ability to gauge insult. This experience, as described, comes in at an astonishing 0/10. We all come from privilege, having been able to obtain a higher education, but many of your peers in medical school will have traveled a significant amount of distance to stand in the space you were born into. Just be mindful when you rant about having the opportunity to engage in conversation with physicians at a family gathering.

WTF? Regardless of what garbage you've been told during your liberal indoctrination, stop being a victim. Despite what you've heard America is still the best country in the world and all of her citizens are equal. Having doctors in your family now is some sort of privilege? Come on, quit crying and inventing injustice already, it gets old.

 

[missmd123]

I'm sorry you had to have such an uncomfortable conversation but I must also say that you seem to be missing an appropriate ability to gauge insult. This experience, as described, comes in at an astonishing 0/10. We all come from privilege, having been able to obtain a higher education, but many of your peers in medical school will have traveled a significant amount of distance to stand in the space you were born into. Just be mindful when you rant about having the opportunity to engage in conversation with physicians at a family gathering.

I sincerely apologize if my rant came off as me being insensitive towards other people's situations. I did not mean for it to come off that way at all. I don't, however, understand how I'm missing an appropriate ability to gauge insult. I think my reaction towards being told I'm not unique and that I have no chance to obtain what I've been working towards for years from someone who doesn't even know me is not uncommon / inappropriate. It's human to feel degraded after being told by someone you can't achieve something you've been passionately working for, especially when that person is saying that based solely on a GPA (that isn't even bad!). Thanks for your 0.02 though.

 

[missmd123]

At some point it's fun being underestimated because then there will be lower expectations on you lol

True! I also love proving people wrong

 

[allanMED15]

A quote I have always gone by is "success is the best revenge". Keep your head up. Don't let it get to you.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

God it's just so frustrating because I know they're judging me based on the fact that I'm a woman who likes to do my makeup lol.

Hey pretty face, can I get your number? JK............... not really.

 

[Mr Interesting]

But what the hell?! Okay first of all they barely know me, how the hell can they say I have no shot based SOLELY on my GPA and their opinion of me as not being "unique".

Then their opinion should barely matter.

Life is honestly too short to worry about such trivial things. The fact that you like to wear makeup has no impact on whether or not you can make it to med school or cut it as a physician. There are so many amazing women in medicine and most of them tend to wear makeup too. That's never stopped them from being great at what they do and it wont stop you either. Your GPA also wont hold you back provided that you do well on the MCAT, have a good balance of activities on your app, have decent LOR's, and apply broadly.

 

[missmd123]

Then their opinion should barely matter.

Life is honestly too short to worry about such trivial things. The fact that you like to wear makeup has no impact on whether or not you can make it to med school or cut it as a physician. There are so many amazing women in medicine and most of them tend to wear makeup too. That's never stopped them from being great at what they do and it wont stop you either. Your GPA also wont hold you back provided that you do well on the MCAT, have a good balance of activities on your app, have decent LOR's, and apply broadly.

I 100% agree! It doesn't matter and shouldn't matter but it still stings hearing that kind of feedback. Thanks for your kind words, you are very sweet!

 

[ChrisMack390]

My family is so uninformed about higher education they think that the fact that I got a 3.5 GPA from a top 40 undergrad and work at an academic hospital means I can basically jut walk into any medical school I wish :-/

Grass, greener, etc.

 

[Axes]

WTF? Regardless of what garbage you've been told during your liberal indoctrination, stop being a victim. Despite what you've heard America is still the best country in the world and all of her citizens are equal. Having doctors in your family now is some sort of privilege? Come on, quit crying and inventing injustice already, it gets old.

Of course that's a privilege. How is it not? Having privilege doesn't undermine achievements. But I think we should be mindful of our privilege bc it keeps you grounded and can keep you from being unintentionally hurtful

 

[vantheman]

I was in a similar position. Raised me GPA to a 7.750 by having a "I will prove everyone wrong" attitude haha

 

[Affiche]

Lol what an uninformed opinion! First of all, if you actually want to have a career coming out of law school, you need a uGPA higher than a 3.65. Top tier law schools (which are really the only ones worth attending in this market) typically have median gpa's equal to or higher than medical schools, just sayin'. Secondly, any gpa of 3.6+ paired with a bitchin' MCAT will be fine.

 

[genericpremedstudent]

this is a big reason why I don't tell anyone I'm pre-med. Everyone has something to say. The worst are other pre-meds. Everything has to be a competition. All my stats speak for themselves and no one has to know because I have nothing to prove.

 

[theriomorphos]

,

 

[AgentMay]

WTF? Regardless of what garbage you've been told during your liberal indoctrination, stop being a victim. Despite what you've heard America is still the best country in the world and all of her citizens are equal. Having doctors in your family now is some sort of privilege? Come on, quit crying and inventing injustice already, it gets old.

Having doctors in the family of course is a privilege. Not only these doctors understand what you are going through, but they can also give you advice and guide you in the right direction (But of course, in OP's situation, it was a total opposite).

 

[mk04447]

Of course that's a privilege. How is it not? Having privilege doesn't undermine achievements. But I think we should be mindful of our privilege bc it keeps you grounded and can keep you from being unintentionally hurtful

BS... Uncles who hardly know her? Mindful of our privilege? Unintentionally hurtful? Man this generation is in for a rude awakening.

 

[Gandyy]

Lol what an uninformed opinion! First of all, if you actually want to have a career coming out of law school, you need a uGPA higher than a 3.65. Top tier law schools (which are really the only ones worth attending in this market) typically have median gpa's equal to or higher than medical schools, just sayin'. Secondly, any gpa of 3.6+ paired with a bitchin' MCAT will be fine.

I would just like to add that many undergrads who on the pre-law track take classes including but not limited to "Physics in Poetry", "BasketWeaving 2000", "History of JJ Carter and JJ Carter 1500"

"Disney Class 2000", "Movie Making", "Biology for Non-Majors", "Chemistry for Non-Majors", "Sports Law", and finally "Underwater BasketWeaving 9001".

This is with hardly any EC's, and a standardized Test to take that I have a hard time believing would be nearly as difficult as the MCAT is. So of course its pretty easy to get a high gpa in your typical pre-law track.

In fact, most Law schools with the exception of top tiers dont even INTERVIEW their prospective students.

/rant about pre-law

 

[mk04447]

Having doctors in the family of course is a privilege. Not only these doctors understand what you are going through, but they can also give you advice and guide you in the right direction (But of course, in OP's situation, it was a total opposite).

Hardly. Schools won't accept letters from them. Best they could do is put you in touch with someone to shadow or write a letter. You'd still have to make an impression. Ultimately may save you a phone call or two.

 

[mk04447]

I would just like to add that many undergrads who on the pre-law track take classes including but not limited to "Physics in Poetry", "BasketWeaving 2000", "History of JJ Carter and JJ Carter 1500"

"Disney Class 2000", "Movie Making", "Biology for Non-Majors", "Chemistry for Non-Majors", "Sports Law", and finally "Underwater BasketWeaving 9001".

This is with hardly any EC's, and a standardized Test to take that I have a hard time believing would be nearly as difficult as the MCAT is. So of course its pretty easy to get a high gpa in your typical pre-law track.

In fact, most Law schools with the exception of top tiers dont even INTERVIEW their prospective students.

/rant about pre-law

LOL... Even the best law schools are waiving the LSAT with alarming regularity... There just aren't enough jobs for the grads.

 

[Gandyy]

Having doctors in the family of course is a privilege. Not only these doctors understand what you are going through, but they can also give you advice and guide you in the right direction (But of course, in OP's situation, it was a total opposite).

This is totally not true at all, especially if your Doctor family relatives are immigrants from a different country. They actually have no clue about what you are going through and actually make things 100 times worse

because they cant understand how much harder it is to get into a medical school in the United States/Canada in the year of 2015.

 

[AgentMay]

Best they could do is put you in touch with someone to shadow or write a letter..

Exactly!!! Imagine that if you don't have the connection at all and have to make the phone call yourself. Needless to say if you would get a chance to make a first impression face-to-face at all.

 

[Goro]

Your experiences are quite common. Most practicing doctor shave no idea what it takes to get into med school these days. And pre-med advisors? Rocks for brains.

So just smile at them and come here for advice.

So this is going to be a rant and I don't mean for it to amount to more than just that and maybe y'all can share your experiences.

Basically I'm visiting relatives for the 4th of July with family (against my will) and my uncles who are doctors come up to me and ask me how college is going and how preparing to apply to medical school next year has been. I tell them good and then they ask me what my GPA is and I say 3.65 but I'm hoping to raise it to a 3.67/3.68 before graduating. They then both tell me "oh well you might want to consider taking the DAT or LSAT. You definitely don't have a shot for CA schools and you'd be lucky if you got in anywhere in the U.S. You're just not unique enough to get into medical school."

Okay so I'm a pretty stubborn person and beyond that I don't put up with people's **** so you can imagine the frustration I feel when they tell me this and I can't rip them a new one because my mom would scold me for not being lady-like.

But what the hell?! Okay first of all they barely know me, how the hell can they say I have no shot based SOLELY on my GPA and their opinion of me as not being "unique".

Reminds me of the horrible pre-med advisors at my school who told me I have no shot back in my freshman year when I had a 3.75...

God it's just so frustrating because I know they're judging me based on the fact that I'm a woman who likes to do my makeup lol.

Has anyone had similar experiences? Sigh. End rant.

 

[Affiche]

I would just like to add that many undergrads who on the pre-law track take classes including but not limited to "Physics in Poetry", "BasketWeaving 2000", "History of JJ Carter and JJ Carter 1500"

"Disney Class 2000", "Movie Making", "Biology for Non-Majors", "Chemistry for Non-Majors", "Sports Law", and finally "Underwater BasketWeaving 9001".

This is with hardly any EC's, and a standardized Test to take that I have a hard time believing would be nearly as difficult as the MCAT is. So of course its pretty easy to get a high gpa in your typical pre-law track.

In fact, most Law schools with the exception of top tiers dont even INTERVIEW their prospective students.

/rant about pre-law

LOL... Even the best law schools are waiving the LSAT with alarming regularity... There just aren't enough jobs for the grads.

Um, what? Yes, the pre-law gpa's are inflated. But, from someone who has taken both the MCAT and the LSAT, the LSAT was a harder test for me despite testing material that naturally comes easier to me than the sciences. I had to take the LSAT twice to have a score I was comfortable applying with, but once for the MCAT. Further, look at percentiles of top law schools for the LSAT- their matriculating classes generally have a median of an LSAT score in the top 3% of test takers (~37 on the MCAT). Imagine being in a career where the only chance you had at solid job prospects was scoring the equivalent of a 37 on the MCAT. The hierarchical nature of law makes it more competitive than medicine, though I know I'll get bashed for saying that. It isn't an easy route to go.

And from someone who was admitted to a T14 law school, waiving the LSAT is unheard of. Both pre-med and pre-law are difficult, but for different reasons. It takes much less to get into any US MD program than it does to get into a T14 law school, which is almost your only chance at a reasonable career in law today. Again, they're both difficult paths, but pre-meds really need to get over the idea that their academic path is the most difficult and prestigious one out there. /end rant.

 

[Axes]

BS... Uncles who hardly know her? Mindful of our privilege? Unintentionally hurtful? Man this generation is in for a rude awakening.

Or we'll usher in a new era of social harmony. Reality will probably be somewhere in the middle

 

[AgentMay]

This is totally not true at all, especially if your Doctor family relatives are immigrants from a different country. They actually have no clue about what you are going through and actually make things 100 times worse

because they cant understand how much harder it is to get into a medical school in the United States/Canada in the year of 2015.

I see your point. I personally don't have doctors in the family. So I don't know what is "totally" true and what isn't. However, I have friends who are. And this is what I know. These people who have doctors in the family seem to be well-informed about everything we need to know about medicine, especially when it comes time to apply. Needless to say, they have more resources that available to them than I was. I, on the other hand, didn't even know what is allopathic or osteopathic until my Junior year in college nor did I know there this thing calls residency after medical school. I'm not playing the underdog here because I wasn't as I was fortunate enough to meet the right people who led me in the right direction.

With all of these, I'm not saying I'm not empathetic with OP in her situation. It sucks to have someone to tell you that you can't achieve what you dream of.

 

[Gandyy]

Um, what? Yes, the pre-law gpa's are inflated. But, from someone who has taken both the MCAT and the LSAT, the LSAT was a harder test for me despite testing material that naturally comes easier to me than the sciences. I had to take the LSAT twice to have a score I was comfortable applying with, but once for the MCAT. Further, look at percentiles of top law schools for the LSAT- their matriculating classes generally have a median of an LSAT score in the top 3% of test takers (~37 on the MCAT). Imagine being in a career where the only chance you had at solid job prospects was scoring the equivalent of a 37 on the MCAT. The hierarchical nature of law makes it more competitive than medicine, though I know I'll get bashed for saying that. It isn't an easy route to go.

And from someone who was admitted to a T14 law school, waiving the LSAT is unheard of. Both pre-med and pre-law are difficult, but for different reasons. It takes much less to get into any US MD program than it does to get into a T14 law school, which is almost your only chance at a reasonable career in law today. Again, they're both difficult paths, but pre-meds really need to get over the idea that their academic path is the most difficult and prestigious one out there. /end rant.

So first, I was kinda joking

I guess if you are looking at the most difficult law schools that may held to be true. There are tons of law schools though that have very low academic standards.

All I said was I have a hard time believing that the LSAT is as hard as the MCAT but then I havent taken it. Thats all I said about that. Whats more, I dont believe I made a comment about the prestige of medicine or law. I am totally aware of the horrendous job market that is present for lawyers in 2015, and realize that if you dont go to a top 30 law school its probably pretty tough to get a job anywhere. My comments pertain to the majority of other law students. The majority of law schools have accepted very low gpa students for many years now.

Again I do realize that the law market is bad and applications to law school have decreased almost 30 percent because people are realizing how shot the market is, but as far as difficulty of obtaining admission to the average law school vs admission pertaining to the average medical school, I think it is substantially tougher to gain admission to the latter when you factor in all the extra things pre-meds have to do to be competitive.

 

[genericpremedstudent]

WTF? Regardless of what garbage you've been told during your liberal indoctrination, stop being a victim. Despite what you've heard America is still the best country in the world and all of her citizens are equal. Having doctors in your family now is some sort of privilege? Come on, quit crying and inventing injustice already, it gets old.

LOL. go back to the anti-URM thread.

 

[Gandyy]

I see your point. I personally don't have doctors in the family. So I don't know what is "totally" true and what isn't. However, I have friends who are. And this is what I know. These people who have doctors in the family seem to be well-informed about everything we need to know about medicine, especially when it comes time to apply. Needless to say, they have more resources that available to them than I was. I, on the other hand, didn't even know what is allopathic or osteopathic until my Junior year in college nor did I know there this thing calls residency after medical school. I'm not playing the underdog here because I wasn't as I was fortunate enough to meet the right people who led me in the right direction.

With all of these, I'm not saying I'm not empathetic with OP in her situation. It sucks to have someone to tell you that you can't achieve what you dream of.

This is n=1. Of course if you have a doctor in the family who just got out of his or her residency the doc might be able to help you SOME in medical school admissions and applications.

Many applicants also have Immigrant Doctors in the family who usually dont know ANYTHING at all about what it takes to get into a US or Canada Medical school.

 

[Affiche]

So first, I was kinda joking

I guess if you are looking at the most difficult law schools that may held to be true. There are tons of law schools though that have very low academic standards.

All I said was I have a hard time believing that the LSAT is as hard as the MCAT but then I havent taken it. Thats all I said about that. Whats more, I dont believe I made a comment about the prestige of medicine or law. I am totally aware of the horrendous job market that is present for lawyers in 2015, and realize that if you dont go to a top 30 law school its probably pretty tough to get a job anywhere. My comments pertain to the majority of other law students. The majority of law schools have accepted very low gpa students for many years now.

Again I do realize that the law market is bad and applications to law school have decreased almost 30 percent because people are realizing how shot the market is, but as far as difficulty of obtaining admission to the average law school vs admission pertaining to the average medical school, I think it is substantially tougher to gain admission to the latter when you factor in all the extra things pre-meds have to do to be competitive.

No problem, I'm just clarifying

You could say the same for Caribbean schools, though. What people in medicine don't seem to understand is that to have reasonable job prospects in law, it's almost a necessity to attend a T14 school (not even top 30, top 14). Sure, you can attend an unranked school, but if you're taking out loans to do so then your financial prospects are about on par with those attending a foreign medical school. In medicine, you can have very mediocre stats and still get into a state MD school or even go DO (not meaning to offend, but DO's do typically accept lower numbers), where you're still pretty set for life. In law, if you can't attend T14 (or a lower-tier for free), you shouldn't attend. In that sense, it is more difficult to achieve success as a pre-law student than it is a pre-medical one. That's all

 

[Gandyy]

No problem, I'm just clarifying

You could say the same for Caribbean schools, though. What people in medicine don't seem to understand is that to have reasonable job prospects in law, it's almost a necessity to attend a T14 school (not even top 30, top 14). Sure, you can attend an unranked school, but if you're taking out loans to do so then your financial prospects are about on par with those attending a foreign medical school. In medicine, you can have very mediocre stats and still get into a state MD school or even go DO (not meaning to offend, but DO's do typically accept lower numbers), where you're still pretty set for life. In law, if you can't attend T14 (or a lower-tier for free), you shouldn't attend. In that sense, it is more difficult to achieve success as a pre-law student than it is a pre-medical one. That's all

Yes I fully agree that as far as the career aspect of the Law goes, its rough and tough.

 

[efle]

It takes much less to get into any US MD program than it does to get into a T14 law school

False, two grabbed off the top of my head

Wustl: Median MCAT 99th percentile, 3.84 GPA, accept rate 8%
Northwestern: Median LSAT 93rd percentile, 3.68 GPA, accept rate 25%

Looking through some of this data, T14 law appears much more accessible than T14 med does

 

[Affiche]

False, two grabbed off the top of my head

Wustl: Median MCAT 99th percentile, 3.84 GPA, accept rate 8%
Northwestern: Median LSAT 93rd percentile, 3.68 GPA, accept rate 25%

Looking through some of this data, T14 law appears much more accessible than T14 med does

Uh, you missed my primary point: medicine doesn't require you to be in the top to be successful, law does.

Edit: notice I said "any US MD program", not a top US MD program. In medicine, you can get into pretty much any US MD program and be set for life. In law it's basically T14 or bust. You can look for anomalies all you want, you'll find them, but you generally can't compare the hierarchical nature of law and the competitiveness it creates to that of medicine.

 

[efle]

Right, you missed my primary point. Medicine doesn't require you to be in the top to be successful, law does.

Did I miss the part where you said "It takes much less to get into any US MD program than it does to get into a T14 law school"

 

[HCHopeful]

Um, what? Yes, the pre-law gpa's are inflated. But, from someone who has taken both the MCAT and the LSAT, the LSAT was a harder test for me despite testing material that naturally comes easier to me than the sciences. I had to take the LSAT twice to have a score I was comfortable applying with, but once for the MCAT. Further, look at percentiles of top law schools for the LSAT- their matriculating classes generally have a median of an LSAT score in the top 3% of test takers (~37 on the MCAT). Imagine being in a career where the only chance you had at solid job prospects was scoring the equivalent of a 37 on the MCAT. The hierarchical nature of law makes it more competitive than medicine, though I know I'll get bashed for saying that. It isn't an easy route to go.

And from someone who was admitted to a T14 law school, waiving the LSAT is unheard of. Both pre-med and pre-law are difficult, but for different reasons. It takes much less to get into any US MD program than it does to get into a T14 law school, which is almost your only chance at a reasonable career in law today. Again, they're both difficult paths, but pre-meds really need to get over the idea that their academic path is the most difficult and prestigious one out there. /end rant.

According to your posting history, you took the MCAT twice because of a low verbal score... You even started the MCAT 2015 Retake thread...

And based off of the school threads you're posting on, you'll probably get in to a mid-to-low tier medical school. So to sum it up, this is your argument.

Law is harder because I took both of the entrance exams twice, got into a top 14 law school but will get into a <40 med school, and because the law job market sucks. Of those, the last seems like a rational argument to make.

Note: Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong regarding the retake, I just assumed you had since you started the thread!

Another note: Law is probably the harder profession to succeed financially in compared to just getting into any MD school, but I don't think it's fair to say that Law is always harder to become successful in.

 

[Affiche]

Did I miss the part where you said "It takes much less to get into any US MD program than it does to get into a T14 law school"

You misinterpreted what I meant. I didn't mean "any" as in look for an anomaly, I mean "any" as in you can get into any tier medical school and be pretty set for life.

According to your posting history, you took the MCAT twice because of a low verbal score... You even started the MCAT 2015 Retake thread...

And based off of the school threads you're posting on, you'll probably get in to a mid-to-low tier medical school. So to sum it up, this is your argument.

Law is harder because I took both of the entrance exams twice, got into a top 14 law school but will get into a <40 med school, and because the law job market sucks. Of those, the last seems like a rational argument to make.

Note: Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong regarding the retake, I just assumed you had since you started the thread!

Another note: Law is probably the harder profession to succeed financially in compared to just getting into any MD school, but I don't think it's fair to say that Law is always harder to become successful in.

You are incorrect. I did initially plan to retake the MCAT because I knew that I could score better on the verbal section, considering I completely winged it, but ultimately decided that my MCAT score was fine for applying this cycle.
You also summed up my argument incorrectly. Law isn't "harder" because I took both entrance exams, law is harder because you have to be at the very top to be successful. In medicine, you can be mediocre and still be essentially guaranteed success.

 

[Affiche]

And based off of the school threads you're posting on, you'll probably get in to a mid-to-low tier medical school.

LOL my admission prospects are based off the school threads I'm posting on, huh? That's some pretty solid logical reasoning! I'm applying broadly and don't comment on threads for many schools I am applying to, especially the reaches. Take that for what it's worth.

And I never said that law is always harder than medicine. I know better than to speak in absolutes.

 

[HCHopeful]

LOL my admission prospects are based off the school threads I'm posting on, huh? That's some pretty solid logical reasoning! I'm applying broadly and don't comment on threads for many schools I am applying to, especially the reaches. Take that for what it's worth.

And I never said that law is always harder than medicine. I know better than to speak in absolutes.

If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, disclose your LSAT and MCAT scores to strengthen your argument. Otherwise, we're simply going off what you deem was good enough to apply to medical school.

And yes, generally people post on the threads of schools to which they've applied. I think it's a reasonable assumption to make that if the majority of those schools are mid-tier, then you're probably a mid-tier candidate who has some reach schools and safety schools.

 

[Petrichor1]

So this is going to be a rant and I don't mean for it to amount to more than just that and maybe y'all can share your experiences.

Basically I'm visiting relatives for the 4th of July with family (against my will) and my uncles who are doctors come up to me and ask me how college is going and how preparing to apply to medical school next year has been. I tell them good and then they ask me what my GPA is and I say 3.65 but I'm hoping to raise it to a 3.67/3.68 before graduating. They then both tell me "oh well you might want to consider taking the DAT or LSAT. You definitely don't have a shot for CA schools and you'd be lucky if you got in anywhere in the U.S. You're just not unique enough to get into medical school."

Okay so I'm a pretty stubborn person and beyond that I don't put up with people's **** so you can imagine the frustration I feel when they tell me this and I can't rip them a new one because my mom would scold me for not being lady-like.

But what the hell?! Okay first of all they barely know me, how the hell can they say I have no shot based SOLELY on my GPA and their opinion of me as not being "unique".

Reminds me of the horrible pre-med advisors at my school who told me I have no shot back in my freshman year when I had a 3.75...

God it's just so frustrating because I know they're judging me based on the fact that I'm a woman who likes to do my makeup lol.

Has anyone had similar experiences? Sigh. End rant.

Thankfully my parents tell me not to tell details to relatives because #1. It's none of their business #2. They probably are trying to compare and most my relatives are not even in medicine so like the only person they could compare with is their little kids which just makes them seem even more pompous.
Either way, I can count on my fingers the few relatives I genuinely like to hang with which is cool because I'm glad the number isn't 0 lol. My aunt never asked me my gpa and quite frankly she pushed me to come to Cali assuming that I'd get an interview (nice gesture but I can only dream). Your uncles seem very pompous...I'm surprised medicine hasn't made them calmer.

 

[efle]

You misinterpreted what I meant. I didn't mean "any" as in look for an anomaly, I mean "any" as in you can get into any tier medical school and be pretty set for life.

Ah you meant it's easier to get into a medical school. Gotcha and agreed ofc!

 

[AgentMay]

Many applicants also have Immigrant Doctors in the family who usually dont know ANYTHING at all about what it takes to get into a US or Canada Medical school.

If this is the case, I think it is premed's responsibility, whose relatives are immigrant doctors, to inform them about how competitive it is to get into medical school in the US/Canada in the year of 2015. Ohh if I have that chance, I will pull up some AAMC data and sit them down to get this straight

 

[Affiche]

If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, disclose your LSAT and MCAT scores to strengthen your argument. Otherwise, we're simply going off what you deem was good enough to apply to medical school.

And yes, generally people post on the threads of schools to which they've applied. I think it's a reasonable assumption to make that if the majority of those schools are mid-tier, then you're probably a mid-tier candidate who has some reach schools and safety schools.

I don't disclose stats on this site for various reasons, the primary one being to protect anonymity. My stats aren't relevant to this argument though, and if you need to see my numbers to understand the logic of the argument, you're missing the point. Anyone can make the point that I'm trying to make, it isn't a difficult one. I'll break it down for you:

Being a successful law school graduate today generally requires you to attend a T14 law school. T14 law schools generally aim for students testing in the top 3-4% of LSAT testers.
Being a successful medical school graduate generally requires you to attend a medical school in the US. Medical schools in the US include both MD and DO programs, and both accept a large number of mediocre applicants.
The LSAT and MCAT are both difficult tests, but pre-law students typically need to score in the top 5% to have reasonable prospects for success while pre-med students can skate by scoring in the top 20%.
Thus, it's more difficult to be obtain success in law than in medicine, because you have to be at the very top versus the top 20%.
They each require very different hoops to jump through. So again, pre-law and pre-med are both difficult but for very different reasons.

 

[Affiche]

Ah you meant it's easier to get into a medical school. Gotcha and agreed ofc!

Yes! Thank god, someone understands haha. Just getting into a medical school is easier than getting into a T14 law school.

Generally speaking:
Requirement for success in medicine= attend a US med school
Requirement for success in law= attend T14

 

[HCHopeful]

I don't disclose stats on this site for various reasons, the primary one being to protect anonymity. My stats aren't relevant to this argument though, and if you need to see my numbers to understand the logic of the argument, you're missing the point. Anyone can make the point that I'm trying to make, it isn't a difficult one. I'll break it down for you:

Being a successful law school graduate today generally requires you to attend a T14 law school. T14 law schools generally aim for students testing in the top 3-4% of LSAT testers.
Being a successful medical school graduate generally requires you to attend a medical school in the US. Medical schools in the US include both MD and DO programs, and both accept a large number of mediocre applicants.
The LSAT and MCAT are both difficult tests, but pre-law students typically need to score in the top 5% to have reasonable prospects for success while pre-med students can skate by scoring in the top 20%.
Thus, it's more difficult to be obtain success in law than in medicine, because you have to be at the very top versus the top 20%.
They each require very different hoops to jump through. So again, pre-law and pre-med are both difficult but for very different reasons.

It's also true that the average GPA's and average LSAT scores for law schools (especially top 14's) are dropping every year because of this T14 problem. This, in turn, has an effect on acceptance rates, and as one would expect, the T14's acceptance rates are rising. Therefore, while in the past it may have been much more difficult to get into a top 14 school, it's becoming easier.

I think your argument is valid, but I also think it's a little exaggerated. Heck, Georgetown is a top 14 and their acceptance rate was at a 31.1% for 2015. I was surprised at that number. Their 75th percentile for the 2014 class for the LSAT was a 168, while the 25th was a 163. A 163 is hardly a score in the top 3-4% of LSAT takers.

Alas, I have no doubt you are more knowledgeable in this area than I, so I will stop here. Thanks for a fun little back-and-forth and good luck during your cycle!

 

[ERK123]

Having doctors in the family of course is a privilege. Not only these doctors understand what you are going through, but they can also give you advice and guide you in the right direction (But of course, in OP's situation, it was a total opposite).

This is exactly why the concept of privilege is not supposed to be blankly applied to individuals. Yet this happens all of the time...

 

[Affiche]

@HCHopeful Is Georgetown really T14 this year? That's new for them....they must have knocked Vandy out. I give 'em a year before they're sub-14 again lol.
You're right though, phenomenal law school candidates are fleeing to other careers and it's damaging the acceptance rates of top schools. The T14 problem is a huge one and I really don't know what will happen to the legal market in the next 15 years. I'm glad that I got out, though lol. Good luck to you, as well!