RE: Why you should not go to medical school

[masaraksh]

I'll be perfectly frank with you: I find you at least one of the top 10 most helpful SDNers. Your posts are always polite, well-phrased, accurate, and to the point. I'm in no way trying to say that you shouldn't post what you do - that would be not only silly and rude, but would generally be the opposite of what I want in any given thread.

I'm just curious as to what you (and others posting similar "it is so much less awesome than you think" sentiments) actually intend for us to take away in these situations. As I said, I can see it if people are completely neglecting to research the downsides of medicine. But if the obstacle is not an intellectual lack of knowledge on the subject, but instead simply the innate understanding which comes only with experience, I don't understand what we are expected to learn on here. It seems that the best which could be hoped for is that we make as much of an effort as we can to become familiar with medicine and try to wear past the shiny veil of excitement and mystery...and if that is already happening, what's next? I am not objecting because "most won't" consider them. I am trying to point out that these comments are frequently directed at those who already have considered, or are at least attempting to consider, these points and it's frustrating because in that case there is no good response, either on the forum or in my own thoughts/plans.

I think what should be taken away from these posts is that students should very seriously look at how much they want to study medicine, undergo immense training, be around sick people so much, etc. I truly believe that college pre-meds can often be so laser focused on med school admissions that they never learn about the huge number of other career options. Being out of college for ~3yrs I was really amazed at how many things there are.

I think these posters are just saying that students should really research what they want and if money is a big factor for some students, well, they're in for a surprise that there are many people making as much or more without the same training/debt. A friend I know got 140k out of undergrad as a developer, another who finished her bio masters is raking doing very well in biotech sales. And I wouldn't say these are "exceptional" cases.

Medicine requires large sacrifices. The physicians/residents/med students posting the aforementioned comments understand that. Some pre-meds tend to overlook this.

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[Zelda840]

2) You will have difficulty sustaining a relationship and will probably break up with or divorce your current significant other during training.

Okay? If you're not willing to sacrifice that, it seems like that just shows your level of commitment to your career more than anything else.

I guess it's just a completely different perspective, because that's the only one that makes me truly second guess myself. Losing her is the only thing I can imagine that would make this not worth it.

 

[mehc012]

I think what should be taken away from these posts is that students should very seriously look at how much they want to study medicine, undergo immense training, be around sick people so much, etc. I truly believe that college pre-meds can often be so laser focused on med school admissions that they never learn about the huge number of other career options. Being out of college for ~3yrs I was really amazed at how many things there are.

I think these posters are just saying that students should really research what they want and if money is a big factor for some students, well, they're in for a surprise that there are many people making as much or more without the same training/debt. A friend I know got 140k out of undergrad as a developer, another who finished her bio masters is raking doing very well in biotech sales. And I wouldn't say these are "exceptional" cases.

Medicine requires large sacrifices. The physicians/residents/med students posting the aforementioned comments understand that. Some pre-meds tend to overlook this.

Thanks. I truly do get this; sorry if that was somehow unclear in my post. That was not my question at all. As I said, my main frustration is that I most frequently see these comments on threads where people have put forth an effort to take that serious look, and in those threads it can be quite frustrating, as there is evidently a ceiling on how well we can truly evaluate this without doing it ourselves (according to those very same posts.) In those threads, where we've done what we can, what more do they want from us? We get it; we won't truly know until we're in there...but doing it before deciding to do it not an option for anyone, so why continue to beat us about the head with it?

 

[DermViser]

I'm just curious as to what you (and others posting similar "it is so much less awesome than you think" sentiments) actually intend for us to take away in these situations. As I said, I can see it if people are completely neglecting to research the downsides of medicine. But if the obstacle is not an intellectual lack of knowledge on the subject, but instead simply the innate understanding which comes only with experience, I don't understand what we are expected to learn on here. It seems that the best which could be hoped for is that we make as much of an effort as we can to become familiar with medicine and try to wear past the shiny veil of excitement and mystery...and if that is already happening, what's next? I am not objecting because "most won't" consider them. I am trying to point out that these comments are frequently directed at those who already have considered, or are at least attempting to consider, these points and it's frustrating because in that case there is no good response, either on the forum or in my own thoughts/plans.

How about about a little bit more introspection as to the realities of medicine? That's a start. Too often the medical school admissions game is a means to an end. Premeds use getting to med school as the endpoint, and do extracurriculars and volunteering experiences as notches in a gun belt rather than as experiences to actually look at the stark realities of medicine.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

It acts as a counterweight to the complete nonsense that was being shared by some of the posts in this thread and many others. Whether or not you agree with it, use it to inform your decision-making, etc. is a whole other matter. Some people will take this sort of stuff to heart and really think about it. Most won't. Just because the latter might be true doesn't mean some kind of self-censorship is appropriate in my view.

People come to this forum to ask questions, learn about the application process, learn about the training process, and learn about the career. I think my and others' responses falls squarely within that objective, and just because you or others find that the posts don't "add" anything to the discussion doesn't mean that everyone feels that way.

i'm here for the lullz

 

[DermViser]

i'm here for the lullz

There are many lullz here.

 

[circulus vitios]

I think these posters are just saying that students should really research what they want and if money is a big factor for some students, well, they're in for a surprise that there are many people making as much or more without the same training/debt. A friend I know got 140k out of undergrad as a developer, another who finished her bio masters is raking doing very well in biotech sales. And I wouldn't say these are "exceptional" cases.

A 22 year old making nearly three times the median US household income isn't an exceptional case?

 

[Gauss44]

Bill Frist..

On the aspect of having people who don't know you start to dislike you, the most interesting person who comes to mind for me is Bill Frist. I'm about to read a few of his books. I'm sure he'll have some insight on being liked AND being a doctor. (I do understand that being disliked by a few people may be inevitable.) I think Senator Frist will, at some point, zero in on the topic of popularity and medical practice which is important to me.

 

[masaraksh]

A 22 year old making nearly three times the median US household income isn't an exceptional case?

Not the best comparison as I think that for the average top med school matriculant the median US household income is not setting the bar particularly high. But it's not all about the money anyway.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

.

 

[mrh125]

"why you shouldn't go into medicine" is a grass is greener on the other side of the road, fallacy. in life no matter what you do you'll be making and losing friends and encountering challenge circumstances in every way. You have to make the most of them and keep a positive attitude. Every positions has its pros and equally compelling drawbacks. I personally couldn't see myself pursuing any career other medicine because all of my interests into a challenging involved career. I'm always asking how I can take my scientific knowledge to the next level and address it to the world around me. Medicine is the crossroads of every discipline and I enjoy.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

"why you shouldn't go into medicine" is a grass is greener on the other side of the road, fallacy. in life no matter what you do you'll be making and losing friends and encountering challenge circumstances in every way. You have to make the most of them and keep a positive attitude. Every positions has its pros and equally compelling drawbacks. I personally couldn't see myself pursuing any career other medicine because all of my interests into a challenging involved career. I'm always asking how I can take my scientific knowledge to the next level and address it to the world around me. Medicine is the crossroads of every discipline and I enjoy.

This is a good start to a secondary essay, but it could still use some work.

 

[mrh125]

This is a good start to a secondary essay, but it could still use some work.

tru dat, it's basically a bit sloppily written (i'm lazy and wrote 10 secondaries today :O) forum shenanigans kinda secondary like business.

 

[masaraksh]

"why you shouldn't go into medicine" is a grass is greener on the other side of the road, fallacy. in life no matter what you do you'll be making and losing friends and encountering challenge circumstances in every way. You have to make the most of them and keep a positive attitude. Every positions has its pros and equally compelling drawbacks. I personally couldn't see myself pursuing any career other medicine because all of my interests into a challenging involved career. I'm always asking how I can take my scientific knowledge to the next level and address it to the world around me. Medicine is the crossroads of every discipline and I enjoy.

Am I the only one who when reading this, especially after seeing the countless threads about taking the easiest route/classes possible to get a high GPA, doing the least work for the most reward w.r.t. med school admissions. please. Or maybe I'm just a bit too cynical.

 

[mrh125]

Am I the only one who when reading this, especially after seeing the countless threads about taking the easiest route/classes possible to get a high GPA, doing the least work for the most reward w.r.t. med school admissions. please. Or maybe I'm just a bit too cynical.

You aren't being too cynical. A lot of people want to optimize their efforts and take the easy way out and thats especially common with premeds. If you're anything like me you'd also be rolling your eyes at the reference to altruism and compassion for others that premeds may often claim to have (try to find that altruism in organic chemistry w/ a bunch of cutthroat premeds). I've seen many threads about people trying to take their premed courses online at CCs because they think it'll be easier. In reality, challenging circumstances are something every med school student will be exposed to, so even if they escape that as an undergrad they're going to have to find other ways to show they're on the level of those who face much adversity and challenges to get where they are. That wouldn't be easy, and even though there are people who get everything handed to them on a silver platter, sooner or later most will have to face the music/challenges.

 

[cs24]

I guess it's just a completely different perspective, because that's the only one that makes me truly second guess myself. Losing her is the only thing I can imagine that would make this not worth it.

If you both feel that strongly about your relationship you will probably be fine.

 

[cs24]

I'll be perfectly frank with you: I find you at least one of the top 10 most helpful SDNers. Your posts are always polite, well-phrased, accurate, and to the point. I'm in no way trying to say that you shouldn't post what you do - that would be not only silly and rude, but would generally be the opposite of what I want in any given thread.

I'm just curious as to what you (and others posting similar "it is so much less awesome than you think" sentiments) actually intend for us to take away in these situations. As I said, I can see it if people are completely neglecting to research the downsides of medicine. But if the obstacle is not an intellectual lack of knowledge on the subject, but instead simply the innate understanding which comes only with experience, I don't understand what we are expected to learn on here. It seems that the best which could be hoped for is that we make as much of an effort as we can to become familiar with medicine and try to wear past the shiny veil of excitement and mystery...and if that is already happening, what's next? I am not objecting because "most won't" consider them. I am trying to point out that these comments are frequently directed at those who already have considered, or are at least attempting to consider, these points and it's frustrating because in that case there is no good response, either on the forum or in my own thoughts/plans.

If you are truly doing everything you can to prepare yourself for med school and take the advice of current med students and residents seriously, then just ignore what they are saying and move on. You don't have to defend your current decision. Take the advice that's out there, use it for what its worth, and then make your own decision. Posts like the ones by the medical students and residents in this thread are some of the most helpful posts on SDN. If not for you specifically, then for other posters and lurkers.

 

[mehc012]

If you are truly doing everything you can to prepare yourself for med school and take the advice of current med students and residents seriously, then just ignore what they are saying and move on. You don't have to defend your current decision. Take the advice that's out there, use it for what its worth, and then make your own decision. Posts like the ones by the medical students and residents in this thread are some of the most helpful posts on SDN. If not for you specifically, then for other posters and lurkers.

And on that we must agree to disagree.

 

[ketosisevangelist]

Hi SDNers
So I read this article about reasons not to go into medicine and I formed some pretty strong opinions, and instead of commenting on it (not enough space in comment box) I decided to see what people in the field thought hence SDN.

The link: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinaz...go-to-medical-school-a-gleefully-biased-rant/

SPOILER WARNING: It's gonna be a long thread, I am an ignorant naïve pre-med who has not even started med school yet but the author is someone who has, I don't know if this is allowed on SDN, what the author says in the article is 99% true but I believe it's all about perspective.

#1) Author's Reason

1) You will lose all the friends you had before medicine.
You think I’m kidding here. No, I’m not: I mean it in the most literal sense possible. I had a friend in UCLA Med School who lived 12min away, and I saw her once — in three years (UPDATE: twice in 4 years). I saw her more often when she lived in Boston and I was in LA, no foolin’.
Here’s the deal: you’ll be so caught up with taking classes, studying for exams, doing ward rotations, taking care of too many patients as a resident, trying to squeeze in a meal or an extra hour of sleep, that your entire life pre-medicine will be relegated to some nether, dust-gathering corner of your mind. Docs and med students don’t make it to their college reunions because who can take a whole weekend off? Unthinkable.
And so those old friends will simply drift away because of said temporal and physical restrictions, to be replaced by your medical compadres, whom you have no choice but to see every day. Which brings us to…

#2) My rebuttal
I am a pre-med student right now, although my work load is considerably smaller than a med student or practicing physician, I only see my closest friends from middle school and up three times a year, which is just fine with us and we remain really close despite my work load. It helps to have friends who have jobs, school and responsibilities as well. Plus with all the social media and forms of communication nowadays it isn't hard getting in touch or scheduling one weekend off every other month to hang out. I'm sure this will get harder in med school and residency but childhood friends have a tendency to drift away when you get into adulthood regardless if you become a doctor or a farmer.

#2) Author
2) You will have difficulty sustaining a relationship and will probably break up with or divorce your current significant other during training.
For the same reasons enumerated above, you just won’t have time for quality time, kid. Any time you do have will be spent catching up on that microbiology lecture, cramming for the Boards, getting some sleep after overnight call and just doing the basic housekeeping of keeping a Homo medicus upright and functioning. When it’s a choice between having a meal or getting some sleep after being up for 36 hrs vs. spending quality time with your sig-o, which one wins, buddy? I know he/she’s great and all, but a relationship is a luxury that your pared-down, elemental, bottom-of-the-Maslow-pyramid existence won’t be able to afford. Unless you’ve found some total saint who’s willing to care for your burned-out carapace every day for 6-8 years without complaint or expectation of immediate reward (and yes, these people do exist, and yes, they will feel massively entitled after the 8 years because of the enormous sacrifice they’ve put in, etc etc).

#2) My rebuttal
I got nothing, I can't really relate or give my two cents cause I've never been in a relationship or in love, nor do I plan to anytime soon.

#3 Author
3) You will spend the best years of your life as a sleep-deprived, underpaid slave. I will state here without proof that the years between 22 and 35, being a time of good health, taut skin, generally idealistic worldview, firm buttocks, trim physique, ability to legally acquire intoxicating substances, having the income to acquire such substances, high liver capacity for processing said substances, and optimal sexual function, are the Best Years of Your Life. And if you enter the medical profession during this golden interval, you will run around like a headless chicken trying to appease various superiors in the guise of professor, intern, resident, chief resident, attending, and department head, depending on your phase of devolution — all the while skipping sleep every fourth day or so and getting paid about minimum wage ($35k-$45k/yr for 80-100 hrs/wk of work) or paying through the nose (med school costing about $40-80k/yr). Granted, any job these days involves hierarchy and superiors, but none of them keep you in such penury for so long. Speaking of penury…

#3) My rebuttal
Here we go again with the whole best years of your life thing again. The belief that 22-35 are the best years of your life because you're young and can buy/do harmful substances that don't harm your body is kind of a backwards belief. Why is it that society says we have to live a certain lifestyle when we are a certain age? I'm 20 and I HATE those things, I'm sure other kids my age love them as equally as I hate them, but even those kids have work, school and responsibilities. Why can't I spend my twenties in an environment with people of my similar tastes and ambition, learning about stuff that I freakin love!!!! and will use in the future. Why can't one light a cigar or get totally wrecked from time to time in med school or residency? You are allot four weeks off each year. The thinking that the best years are behind you and wasted effect everyone not just doctors and it's a very poisonous ideology, imagine the good and fun you can achieve by pushing yourself each year to surpass yourself the previous year. BTW: no matter which field you're in you're always gonna have horrible, jerky superiors I learned that this summer with my first "real" job.

#4) Author
4) You will get yourself a job of dubious remuneration.
For the amount of training you put in and the amount of blood, sweat and tears medicine extracts from you (I’m not being metaphorical here), you should be getting paid an absurd amount of money as soon as you finish residency. And by ‘absurd’, I mean ‘at least a third of what a soulless investment banker makes, who saves no lives, produces nothing of social worth, and is basically a federally-subsidized gambler’ (but that’s a whole different rant, ahem).
I mean, you’re in your mid-thirties. You put in 4 years of med school, and at least 4 years of residency (up to 8 if you’re a surgeon). You even did a fellowship and got paid a pittance while doing that. And for all the good you’re doing humanity — you are healing people, for gods sakes — you should get paid more than some spreadsheet jockey shifting around numbers, some lawyer defending tobacco companies or some consultant maximizing a client’s shareholder value, whatever the hell that means.
Right? Wrong. For the same time spent out of college, your I-banking, lawyering and consulting buddies are making 2-5 times as much as you are. At my tenth college reunion, friends who had gone into finance were near retirement and talking about their 10-acre parcel in Aspen, while 80% of my doctor classmates were still in residency, with an average debt of $100,000 and a salary of $40,000.

#4) Me
This is an example of martyrdom. I mean with all the sacrifices, and pain and struggle you knew you were going into when you voluntarily signed up for med school you should be a millionaire right? First off stop comparing yourself to other people there are chefs who make more money than doctors, to each his own. Starting salary for a physician in primary care right out of residency is about 100K. The median income of the average Joe in America is 50K, most cannot even hope to reach 100K income in their lifetime. Albeit we have debt in the 200K's, but so do vets, attorneys and some attain 200K debt from four years of college. Yet vets don't have the same earning potential as say an anesthesiologist or even primary care doc. Army, Navy and air force service mean and women don't have the earning potential as physicians and in my own opinion they do the real sacrifice and get less respect.

#5) Author
You will have a job of exceptionally high liability exposure

#5) Me
True.

#6) Author
You will endanger your health and long-term well-being.

#6) Me
True

#7) Author
You will not have time to care for patients as well as you want to
#7)Me
I got nothing.

#8) Author
You will start to dislike patients — and by extension, people in general
#8) Me
I don't know about patients but I dislike the author

#9) People who do not even know you will start to dislike you
Me: With all the angry comments I'll get I find this to be already true and I'm not even a doctor

#10) You’re not helping people nearly as much as you think.
Me: I'm sure this could be true

DOPE

 

[DermViser]

"why you shouldn't go into medicine" is a grass is greener on the other side of the road, fallacy. in life no matter what you do you'll be making and losing friends and encountering challenge circumstances in every way. You have to make the most of them and keep a positive attitude. Every positions has its pros and equally compelling drawbacks. I personally couldn't see myself pursuing any career other medicine because all of my interests into a challenging involved career. I'm always asking how I can take my scientific knowledge to the next level and address it to the world around me. Medicine is the crossroads of every discipline and I enjoy.

We realize you just submitted your med school applications and are on a high, but you should fix your cliched personal statement.

 

[DermViser]

Am I the only one who when reading this, especially after seeing the countless threads about taking the easiest route/classes possible to get a high GPA, doing the least work for the most reward w.r.t. med school admissions. please. Or maybe I'm just a bit too cynical.

No, you're not too cynical, considering he's an MS-0 who just submitted his med school applications. Easy to get all "medicine is a calling" -ish.

 

[G_Marker]

Many physicians would probably agree with these points. However, there could also be a long list of reasons why you SHOULD go to medical school.

 

[DermViser]

Am I the only one who when reading this, especially after seeing the countless threads about taking the easiest route/classes possible to get a high GPA, doing the least work for the most reward w.r.t. med school admissions. please. Or maybe I'm just a bit too cynical.

And then many of those same people are shocked when they're having trouble in basic sciences bc they took the easy route in undergrad and took filler classes.

 

[DermViser]

Many physicians would probably agree with these points. However, there could also be a long list of reasons why you SHOULD go to medical school.

Let me guess, bc medicine is a "calling"?

 

[G_Marker]

Let me guess, bc medicine is a "calling"?

Well, (in no particular order)

1. You get paid more than the average American, as OP pointed out
2. Medicine will always be in demand. Your skills are very important, and they won't become too outdated in the next few decades, like computer science might.
3. You'll always be learning new things, as you continue to follow medical advancements in the literature
4. You won't have as many boring days as the average American - everything will be full of variety, and you'll get to meet/see new and interesting people every day.
5. You'll be in charge, ultimately. The administrators and bureaucracy can be as much of a burden as they want, but until they go through the 7-10 years of education and training you went through, they won't be able to make those important decisions, the ones that ultimately matter.
6. You'll have the title (lame, I know, but some people like having 'doctor' in front of their name...)
7. You get to help people! Really, really help them - save lives, change lives, inspire people, etc. Basically, you get to be a hero.

I think people who say medicine is their 'calling' are somewhat deluded. They probably don't appreciate all the cons to medicine, and maybe have a fantasy in their head about what it really means. These are just some reasons I came up with in the past few minutes, though. I think there are plenty more.

 

[DermViser]

Well, (in no particular order)

1. You get paid more than the average American, as OP pointed out
2. Medicine will always be in demand. Your skills are very important, and they won't become too outdated in the next few decades, like computer science might.
3. You'll always be learning new things, as you continue to follow medical advancements in the literature
4. You won't have as many boring days as the average American - everything will be full of variety, and you'll get to meet/see new and interesting people every day.
5. You'll be in charge, ultimately. The administrators and bureaucracy can be as much of a burden as they want, but until they go through the 7-10 years of education and training you went through, they won't be able to make those important decisions, the ones that ultimately matter.
6. You'll have the title (lame, I know, but some people like having 'doctor' in front of their name...)
7. You get to help people! Really, really help them - save lives, change lives, inspire people, etc. Basically, you get to be a hero.

I think people who say medicine is their 'calling' are somewhat deluded. They probably don't appreciate all the cons to medicine, and maybe have a fantasy in their head about what it really means. These are just some reasons I came up with in the past few minutes, though. I think there are plenty more.

1. You also have an exorbitant amount of debt necessitating the salary you get.
2. No different than PA, NP, Dentistry, Pharmacy, etc.
3. You learn new things in other fields, as above, as well.
4. Again same as above.
5. If you work fo a hospital, administrators call the shots. If you see insured people, insurance people call the shots as to what treatments they will cover.
6. Yup, lame reason.
7. Again, no different than NP, PA, Dentistry, Pharmacy, etc.

 

[G_Marker]

1. You also have an exorbitant amount of debt necessitating the salary you get.
2. No different than PA, NP, Dentistry, Pharmacy, etc.
3. You learn new things in other fields, as above, as well.
4. Again same as above.
5. If you work fo a hospital, administrators call the shots. If you see insured people, insurance people call the shots as to what treatments they will cover.
6. Yup, lame reason.
7. Again, no different than NP, PA, Dentistry, Pharmacy, etc.

Of course, there are plenty of reasons why you shouldn't go after a medical career, as I conceded. I think your responses are cynical and half-true, though. I will maybe post more about why these are quasi-truths when I have time later.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Of course, there are plenty of reasons why you shouldn't go after a medical career, as I conceded. I think your responses are cynical and half-true, though. I will maybe post more about why these are quasi-truths when I have time later.

You hear that @DermViser? Get ready to be schooled...

I think people who say medicine is their 'calling' are somewhat deluded. They probably don't appreciate all the cons to medicine, and maybe have a fantasy in their head about what it really means. These are just some reasons I came up with in the past few minutes, though. I think there are plenty more.

6. You'll have the title (lame, I know, but some people like having 'doctor' in front of their name...)
7. You get to help people! Really, really help them - save lives, change lives, inspire people, etc. Basically, you get to be a hero.

 

[DermViser]

You hear that @DermViser? Get ready to be schooled...

Yes, I'm waiting for the premed to come back and tell me how PA or Dentistry doesn't have those same characteristics.

 

[DermViser]

I will maybe post more about why these are quasi-truths when I have time later.

 

[LMBLBM]

Why you should not go to medical school?
Why you should not go to law school?
Why you should not go to culinary school?
Why you should not go to college?

 

[G_Marker]

1. You also have an exorbitant amount of debt necessitating the salary you get.
2. No different than PA, NP, Dentistry, Pharmacy, etc.
3. You learn new things in other fields, as above, as well.
4. Again same as above.
5. If you work fo a hospital, administrators call the shots. If you see insured people, insurance people call the shots as to what treatments they will cover.
6. Yup, lame reason.
7. Again, no different than NP, PA, Dentistry, Pharmacy, etc.

I'm not trying to 'school' anyone, here! There's no need to be nasty. I appreciate your opinions, as I've said before. You are right, in that becoming a physician is extremely difficult, and that the situation right now for physicians, especially those in primary care, is very bad. I've hear it all before - about the insurance companies refusing certain necessary treatments/tests, about how awful Epic is, about how necessary tort reform is, and about how it might be more financially savvy to become an NP or a PA.

1. Maybe it's not a great time to go into primary care, but if money isn't an issue and you're interested in medicine, why not? If money is an issue, then the medical student could look into specialties with higher salaries. I'm not saying that if you go to an expensive private medical school and go into dermatology, you'll be rolling in dough, but you won't be poor. In debt, but a nice healthy salary, too. You could say that dermatology is a very competitive specialty, but there are other specialties that traditionally make a lot of money and that aren't as competitive, like cardiology or neurology.

2. Medicine will always be in demand. That's true, of course. NPs and PAs are included in this positive, for sure! NPs and PAs are not included in some of my other positives, though.

3. Not exactly. It's true that in other medical professions you get to keep learning. As a physician, you get to keep learning and actually implement what you've learned in a meaningful way. PAs and NPs can do a whole lot, but not everything. They can keep learning about medicine and keep up with medical literature, I suppose. But I was under the impression that physicians may have more leeway with insurance companies to use newer treatments... I don't know, I just don't see NPs and PAs reading medical literature and implementing what they read. I think of them as being more clinical, and they don't do research or receive nearly as much medical education and training as the physician. There are some bad studies out there, and I don't know if I would trust an NP or a PA to fish the good ones out.

4. Another one that also counts for a lot of other professions, including NP and PA! But a positive, nonetheless. Better than working in a research lab all day.

5. Ultimately, though, NPs and PAs don't make the bigger decisions, and that's what I meant here - think about specialties like neurology or cardiology - or surgery! You don't see NPs or PAs cutting people's heads open. True, if you work in a hospital, the administrators call the shots. Again, choose your specialty, whether you want to do private practice in a specialty like dermatology or work as a hospitalist. Even so, it's true that hospital administrators can control some of your decisions, but not most of them. It's up to you to treat the patient. Insurance companies are a pain, of course. Again, they aren't the ones making the call, though they certainly waste time haggling with you over it.

6. Not a completely lame reason. This is not a singular reason why some people become physicians (definitely not why I want to be a physician). But if you come from a family where you're the first person to graduate high school, college, and medical school, that title will be quite a moment of pride (expensive pride, for sure!). It will be meaningful for some people, and though I think it's lame, I think I can understand why.

7. I don't think it's a fantasy to think that you'll get to help people as a physician. I know this is the answer that everyone cringes at because it applies to a lot of professions. The doctor can directly save lives. Maybe NPs and PAs save lives too, but not in the same sense (or with the same frequency) that a cardiologist or ER doctor does.

My main point is that although there are plenty of reasons why not to go into medicine, there are also plenty of reasons TO go into medicine. And maybe the seven I listed aren't the best ones, but they are the ones I came up with right away - the obvious, cliched answer, maybe. But valid nonetheless.

 

[masaraksh]

Why you should not go to medical school?
Why you should not go to law school?
Why you should not go to culinary school?
Why you should not go to college?

This one doesn't belong. There are no good reasons to not go to culinary school.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I'm not trying to 'school' anyone, here! There's no need to be nasty. I appreciate your opinions, as I've said before. You are right, in that becoming a physician is extremely difficult, and that the situation right now for physicians, especially those in primary care, is very bad. I've hear it all before - about the insurance companies refusing certain necessary treatments/tests, about how awful Epic is, about how necessary tort reform is, and about how it might be more financially savvy to become an NP or a PA.

1. Maybe it's not a great time to go into primary care, but if money isn't an issue and you're interested in medicine, why not? If money is an issue, then the medical student could look into specialties with higher salaries. I'm not saying that if you go to an expensive private medical school and go into dermatology, you'll be rolling in dough, but you won't be poor. In debt, but a nice healthy salary, too. You could say that dermatology is a very competitive specialty, but there are other specialties that traditionally make a lot of money and that aren't as competitive, like cardiology or neurology.

2. Medicine will always be in demand. That's true, of course. NPs and PAs are included in this positive, for sure! NPs and PAs are not included in some of my other positives, though.

3. Not exactly. It's true that in other medical professions you get to keep learning. As a physician, you get to keep learning and actually implement what you've learned in a meaningful way. PAs and NPs can do a whole lot, but not everything. They can keep learning about medicine and keep up with medical literature, I suppose. But I was under the impression that physicians may have more leeway with insurance companies to use newer treatments... I don't know, I just don't see NPs and PAs reading medical literature and implementing what they read. I think of them as being more clinical, and they don't do research or receive nearly as much medical education and training as the physician. There are some bad studies out there, and I don't know if I would trust an NP or a PA to fish the good ones out.

4. Another one that also counts for a lot of other professions, including NP and PA! But a positive, nonetheless. Better than working in a research lab all day.

5. Ultimately, though, NPs and PAs don't make the bigger decisions, and that's what I meant here - think about specialties like neurology or cardiology - or surgery! You don't see NPs or PAs cutting people's heads open. True, if you work in a hospital, the administrators call the shots. Again, choose your specialty, whether you want to do private practice in a specialty like dermatology or work as a hospitalist. Even so, it's true that hospital administrators can control some of your decisions, but not most of them. It's up to you to treat the patient. Insurance companies are a pain, of course. Again, they aren't the ones making the call, though they certainly waste time haggling with you over it.

6. Not a completely lame reason. This is not a singular reason why some people become physicians (definitely not why I want to be a physician). But if you come from a family where you're the first person to graduate high school, college, and medical school, that title will be quite a moment of pride (expensive pride, for sure!). It will be meaningful for some people, and though I think it's lame, I think I can understand why.

7. I don't think it's a fantasy to think that you'll get to help people as a physician. I know this is the answer that everyone cringes at because it applies to a lot of professions. The doctor can directly save lives. Maybe NPs and PAs save lives too, but not in the same sense (or with the same frequency) that a cardiologist or ER doctor does.

My main point is that although there are plenty of reasons why not to go into medicine, there are also plenty of reasons TO go into medicine. And maybe the seven I listed aren't the best ones, but they are the ones I came up with right away - the obvious, cliched answer, maybe. But valid nonetheless.

You do realize that DV is a resident, right? Kind of odd for a pre-med to be lecturing a physician on healthcare.

 

[masaraksh]

You do realize that DV is a resident, right? Kind of odd for a pre-med to be lecturing a physician on healthcare.

Pretty sure DV is a dermatologist, which is pretty much a cosmetologist, which in turn is basically a cosmonaut. A pre-med probably knows more about healthcare than a cosmonaut. Mmmkay

 

[mrh125]

We realize you just submitted your med school applications and are on a high, but you should fix your cliched personal statement.

no high. i'm just making the most of what i've given. yes it's going to difficult, unfair, suck and the standards may be contemptible but that's life.

 

[fellowstudent92]

lol most premeds are fools. I was once one and now I'm not. I'm all the better for it though. I just want to say that following a lot of Dermviser's comments and other comments of other residents really did give me a reality check. Their hope of "just maybe" being able to convince someone for the 1001st time worked with me!
thanks y'all. You saved me years of my life because I had excellent chances of getting in.

 

[DermViser]

Well on the bright side, a resident's salary these days is 50k instead of 35-40k as it was when the author wrote the blog.

With inflation to go along with it thus making the 50,000 in 2014 actually worth $40,970.37

 

[Conflagration]

lol most premeds are fools. I was once one and now I'm not. I'm all the better for it though. I just want to say that following a lot of Dermviser's comments and other comments of other residents really did give me a reality check. Their hope of "just maybe" being able to convince someone for the 1001st time worked with me!
thanks y'all. You saved me years of my life because I had excellent chances of getting in.

Do you mean that you are no longer naïve, or that you are no longer a pre-med? Sorry if it's a silly question.

The grass is not always greener on the other side. For example, there's at least a monthly thread in the pre-pharm or pharmacy forums about oversaturation. Dentistry has been doing well for itself, but not everyone finds a similar fascination with teeth (and not to mention, some who are gunning for a medical school slot from watching Grey's Anatomy and House, and others believing with a rather foolhardy attitude that somehow dentistry is less noble than being a physician).

Adding to that, you need a RN credential and at least two years experience to try for a NP slot, and you need at least 2,000 hours of a medical profession to apply to PA school. Also, they are midlevel practitioners; and only NPs have unrestricted prescription rights in some states. So, if being a practitioner with full license who doesn't work on teeth or OMFS; then MD/DO is the only way to go that works for the majority of the country.

I appreciate the candid honesty that medical students and residents on SDN are giving. Thanks again, you guys. I'm trying to figure out what kinds of professionals to shadow and I appreciate you all taking the time to talk to us pre-meds about your experiences.

 

[fellowstudent92]

You haven't considered inflation @skiier54

And Conflagration, I am no longer pre-med. Parents, friends, and even older doctors can sugar coat the **** out of a medical career so I take their advice with a huge grain of salt. I've probably got over 200 hours in shadowing (if you don't count EMT. Then make it 700) Medicine's changing and I don't expect this field to get better anytime soon (within the next 10 years when I start practicing). Of course, your definition of better is different than mine. Knowing that the AMA is the weakest political lobby in healthcare, I don't think most doctors will muster up the balls to fight for themselves as many of them conflict with each other already! Man, sometimes I wish I was born in the earlier generations. It would have made my decision process SO MUCH EASIER.

Also, I have an interest in teeth Conflagration. So dentistry suits me just fine. People will tell you **** like all dentists do is look at people's mouth all day. What do I say to that? Hell ya, stay away from dentistry so it doesn't become as scathed as medicine has. But yea, I know about it's saturation and other problems associated with dentistry too. I just think the positives in this field are more worth it than the negatives. I can do everything in dentistry that I would be able to in medicine and more (help people albeit not to a greater extent, do research, own my own business, etc). I still want to help people significantly, however. Medicine is not the ONLY way you can make a SIGNFICANT impact on someone's life. I intend on doing a lot of humanitarian/philanthropical work (i.e. establishing a charity) even as a dentist that doesn't require me to give away my best years. Ask a premed why he/she picks this SPECIFIC way to SIGNFICANTLY help someone? They'll tell you about the perfection in incorporating science with the patient interaction lol. Get real. That's not the only thing that should matter. Besides, writing prescriptions (in primary care settings) and occupying 90% of your time with paperwork as I have seen some docs do isn't exactly anyone's cup of tea either. A majority of the cases are routine so your moments of fulfilment as a physician will be few and far in between. Filling out paperwork is sure as hell NOT one of the reasons I would want to go into medicine and it is certainly not why I want to sign up for this. If it is for you, have fun with that I guess? But I know I would be pretty depressed if that occupied most of my time. There's no fulfilment in filling out paperwork. Lmfao I don't take stupid shows like that seriously and anyone who bases their career choices of House and Grey's anatomy is a fool. In fact, every time I watch them, I just end up picking apart all the little glamorous aspects of the field and that kills my mood to continue watching them.

I'm probably going to get flamed for some of this. Bring it on.

EDIT: @DermViser already addressed the inflation. Nevermind.

 

[Conflagration]

That's a lot to think about.

For the record, I am by no means suggesting that one trumps the other. I think a lot of the pre-med vs. pre-dent tension is a bunch of folks on an ego trip.

I was planning on shadowing a dentist because the lifestyle appeals to me, but I would be a dirty liar if I told you that I thought I'd be working on teeth as a professional. Of course, I am willing to have my mind changed on the subject. I just don't know much about it in my personal case; and for many, they could never be happy looking down someone's throat all the time.

 

[fellowstudent92]

Once you consider the variety you can have even as a GP by taking C.E. classes post dental school, you'll realize that the cases can be diverse. The challenge is there if you want it. Just don't think of dentistry as looking down someone's throat all the time. If I were to think like that, then I would say being an EM physician is like dealing with druggies or primary care is about general check ups. There's more to it than that. You would be happy in dealing with druggies or writing out prescriptions all day? (By the way I know that both fields don't JUST involve that. It's simply an oversimplification that isn't justified as dentistry is when you say "looking down someone's throat all the time).

I personally know I'm very passionate in a field that I decide is worth it. My thinking is that all my effort that would have gone into medicine I could put into dentistry and I'm confident I can do wonders in this field. We'll just have to see!

 

[GratefulTN]

I came across this a while ago. The guy who wrote it is a jaded, opinionated, sensationalist. Check out his other work if you want proof. Some of his points are valid, but his reasoning is very, very skewed.

A med student who listens to Iggy Pop.... official hero

 

[It's all good]

Please do not resort to a life in medicine for happiness (and certainly not lifestyle). Find someone you love while pursuing your interests for the love of god. You have not been in a relationship and yet you value your career over love! Medical school is not college where you may find yourself at the top of the stack while your friends are drinking and being merry. If you are intelligent and neurotic enough to make it to medical school, then you can find a decent paying job in a stable enough field. You need to consider the opportunity cost. I am a "non-trad" from a high paying job out of college. Improving a person's life uplifts my spirits, but this job is generally thankless and consists of waking up at ungodly hours. This concern may seem trite, but I look back on my former 9 - 5pm 75k job straight out of college and want to curl up in my bed with a heated blanket at 5:30am most mornings. This post is from the heart - please read it without a grain of salt.

 

[Holmwood]

1) You will lose all the friends you had before medicine.

Already have, and couldn't be happier. I already made new friends, and if I lose them then I can still make more.

2) You will have difficulty sustaining a relationship and will probably break up with or divorce your current significant other during training.

It's not like practicing medicine makes you sterile. Find someone that understands and is willing to work with you.


3) You will spend the best years of your life as a sleep-deprived, underpaid slave. I will state here without proof that the years between 22 and 35, being a time of good health, taut skin, generally idealistic worldview, firm buttocks, trim physique, ability to legally acquire intoxicating substances, having the income to acquire such substances, high liver capacity for processing said substances, and optimal sexual function, are the Best Years of Your Life. And if you enter the medical profession during this golden interval, you will run around like a headless chicken trying to appease various superiors in the guise of professor, intern, resident, chief resident, attending, and department head, depending on your phase of devolution — all the while skipping sleep every fourth day or so and getting paid about minimum wage ($35k-$45k/yr for 80-100 hrs/wk of work) or paying through the nose (med school costing about $40-80k/yr). Granted, any job these days involves hierarchy and superiors, but none of them keep you in such penury for so long. Speaking of penury…

I do the best that I can when I'm in top shape so that I can relax a bit when I'm older. I'm not a fan of the live young and suffer later plan. I can wait; I'm not an insect. . . Plus, binge drinking is boring, and you can enjoy sex well beyond your training years.

As a society, we're all sleep deprived anyway. At least doctors have the option to retire early when the sleep deprivation takes its toll. Other peeps have to continue working well into their elderly years...

You will have a job of exceptionally high liability exposure

Can't argue with that. After all, you're dealing with money and people's lives.

You will endanger your health and long-term well-being.

Depends how well you manage. You can do worse as a desk warrior, chowing down burger after burger, and staying up late at night watching netflix. I've seen surgeons in better shape than college kids. It's about effort in the end.

Now if it's sleep deprivation, it depends on the specialty. Even then, you can always do private practice or academic medicine later on in life.

You will not have time to care for patients as well as you want to

Documentation woes huh. That's where others come in and pick up the slack.


You will start to dislike patients — and by extension, people in general

Everyone gets grumpy when they get older, not just doctors. Certainly, doctors are not the prime example of this case.

People who do not even know you will start to dislike you

You'll find someone who hates you regardless of what you do, and vice versa. Hating others indiscriminately is a normal human response.

#10) You’re not helping people nearly as much as you think.

You can't help everyone, but you can help some people in significant ways. That's already something to take pride in.

 

[Diesel47]

Is this a joke article? Like cracked or something?

Is the way to spend the "best years of your life" to abuse substances?

kk.




Personally , I'm doing the "normal life" IT job right now and I'm not liking it. I'd much rather go back to school. So medicine doesn't seem like a big sacrifice to me.

 

[Trefoil]

I totally agree with the author in some ways, but he is completely missing the positive side of things.

Most people choose medicine because they want a stable career where they can benefit society. Medicine definitely provides this.

There are specialties in medicine that are far lower stress: radiology, dermatology, ophthalmology, family practice, psychiatry, and pathology are all great examples. They all make reasonable incomes to boot.

Unlike the author, I am still keeping in touch with friends, and many of them
are blown away by the technology I get to work with.

To be fair, I am a 3rd year, and by no means a resident, but I am only considering the specialties mentioned above. Some of my cohorts will consider me selfish for not picking a specialty that consumes your time, but I honestly think those people are very narrow minded. The goal is still to do work that benefits others, and ophthalmology, my first choice, provides a great improvement in the quality of life of patients with minimal sacrifice by the provider. Just my two cents.