Reaching out to PD for interviews

[kaylasdf123]

Hi All,

This might be a repetitive question but with a spin. Currently, I have 10 interviews at decent/good psychiatry programs and I'm happy with the number of interviews I have except for the fact that I'm couples matching with my sig other who is matching into Pediatrics. Some of our interviews are in the same location but most are not and he also has a significantly more interviews than I do. It's been radio-silent for me for the past few days and I'm getting anxious that the stream of interview invites has started to slow down/stop for me. How should I reach out to PD for interviews and should I mention couples matching? Also I would like to reach out to some of the better programs (top 20) for interviews but with my stats (below) does it make sense to do that? Also, I'm realizing that not having my Step 2 scores might be hurting me? Thoughts?

My stats: Step 1 (224), Step 2CK (taking in early Nov), Step 2CS (taking in early Nov), clinical grades (HP in everything but P in Med/Peds/Primary Care), no research, no red flags, mid-tier AMG

I appreciate the responses!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Having 10 invites in October is nothing to sneeze at. If you applied at more places already it will probably pick up again in November.

Apply to every place you are interested in doing residency and can afford. You might be pleasantly surprised what invites you get.

Definitely mention it if you are doing the couples match, it's not looked down on at all and a program may be more likely to rank you higher if they know you are trying to be near your SO.

Not having step 2 done reduces your competitiveness a little, but you are doing what you can about that already.

 

[eli20]

Having 10 invites in October is nothing to sneeze at. If you applied at more places already it will probably pick up again in November.

Is this a thing? I have 8 interviews, at least 6 of which I'm very interested in but I haven't heard anything in a while at this point... (just to clarify - I'm very happy to have that and am not complaining about those I do have).

I'm starting to think I'm done with invites based on what I've been reading around here/people saying that they got all of theirs before Nov 1st. I think not having S2 in is hurting me also despite a good S1 score.... with so many more apps floating around I think it's an easy screen.

 

[Psychotic]

Is this a thing? I have 9 interviews, at least 6 of which I'm very interested in but I haven't heard anything in a while at this point... I'm starting to think I'm done with invites based on what I've been reading around here/people saying that they got all of theirs before Nov 1st.

You say you have 9 interviews. How many apps did you send out?

It depends, maybe, on how many apps you still have out there, and which "tier" are the programs vs the tier you have been getting invites from? Or the geography? I applied to lots of southern programs, and they seem to send out and interview earlier than some of the northeastern and west coast progs...

By this date 2 years ago, I was done...but, I had received 18 invites out of 25...so, I had heard from nearly 75 percent of programs. There were only so many more I could hear from at that point.

The only thing I heard otherwise was an email 'rejection' from 2 programs - one came in early October, and one came, I think, in January. The rest were silent rejections.

 

[kaylasdf123]

I sent out 42 apps (bc of couples matching). Was hoping that I would hear back from a few more programs esp. in the geographic regions that my sig other has interviews.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Definitely drop a brief note and mention the couples' match.
Also, if you happen to add programs--let them know that you tossed your hat in the ring. My program just topped 1400 apps--and it's not particularly easy to find the newest ones.

 

[Psychotic]

My program just topped 1400 apps

This number seems higher than what you reported to us in the last couple of cycles. Is it? And are you hearing similar numbers from other PDs?

 

[freudianslip908]

A small community program's program director mentioned to me that they had received 1200 applications so far. For 4 spots! This is getting crazy...

 

[Psychotic]

A small community program's program director mentioned to me that they had received 1200 applications so far. For 4 spots! This is getting crazy...

Unless you are talking about San Mateo, I agree.

 

[wolfvgang22]

1200 applicants was typical for my mid tier program.

 

[clausewitz2]

Louisville stated that they had 1100 for 9 spots, with 250 AMGs. They said it is normally like 90.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

This number seems higher than what you reported to us in the last couple of cycles. Is it? And are you hearing similar numbers from other PDs?

Yes--it is 100 more than last year--and seems to keep going up.
It's quite possible that better known programs without a history of taking IMGs are seeing fewer--but everyone is seeing multiple hundreds.

 

[Psychotic]

Yes--it is 100 more than last year--and seems to keep going up.
It's quite possible that better known programs without a history of taking IMGs are seeing fewer--but everyone is seeing multiple hundreds.

So do you just run a tighter screen on scores to winnow the pile?

Is the quality of the people you extend invitations to about the same?

How about the quantity of top applicants? Up or about the same?

 

[bd290]

Ugh.

This is what everyone is reporting this year, but there seems to be a lot of people who want to insist that it's "just like when they applied."

 

[OldPsychDoc]

So do you just run a tighter screen on scores to winnow the pile?

Is the quality of the people you extend invitations to about the same?

How about the quantity of top applicants? Up or about the same?

I'm going to say the quantity of top applicants is a bit more this year. (Our top applicants, at least--I mean, I'm proud of our residents and our level of clinical training, but I'm under no illusion that I see many of the folks who apply to Mass Gen or UCSF, etc.) As I've said before, we interview just about every AMG or DO student who applies from the region, and that group alone has filled up many more of our interview slots this year. I think we've winnowed out the best of the USIMGs and FMGs, and now we're into a pool of a couple of hundred very similar appearing applications that are all interviewable, will probably be competent residents and nice people, but just don't stand out from the other hundred that want the same 10 remaining interview spots. (And of course, I'm worrying that I'm interviewing the same bunch of applicants that everyone else is, and that in the end they are going to choose a place with a bigger name or perceived stature, and leave me grasping straws in the SOAP...)

Bottom line: it's going to be tough to be a fair-to-middling Caribbean grad this cycle.

 

[kevinc2]

So far, I did get some invites w/ emailing PDs, but not sure whether they were gonna send me an interview invite anyways or whether email actually affected it. I also got waitlisted emails after sending emails. If you have certain geographic reasons due to couples match, it might be worth emailing few programs.
But for the vast majority programs that emailed (top ones that I am interested in) are either still telling me they are reviewing applications slowly and send out invites judiciously or they are waitlisting a lot of ppl and waiting for ppl to cancel. Also some programs are trying to open up more interview dates to accommodate increased number of applicants/interviews so give them some time
One PD at a name place/academic program emailed me back saying that they have been getting a lot more applications than previous year and that applicants seem to be applying broadly this year so PD actually expected quite a bit of cancellations despite my waitlist status.
I have a feeling this year little bit different in terms of significantly increased number of applications (not necessarily significant increases in the total number of total applicants) and we may end up getting interview invites later or have a bunch of january interviews at more competitive programs due to cancellations.
My home faculty member in psych also said we have been getting lot more apps this year vs last year as well.

 

[thxleave]

It could just be hysteria. I ended up adding more places when I saw "Is psychiatry the new radiology?" I know some others doing the same. So people seeing this thread will continue to add more places.

You be surprised how many people read SDN. If not how often SDNers spread the panic in real life. Who knows? Guess we have to wait till NRMP data comes out.

 

[freudianslip908]

Looks like I'm gonna be one of those people reaching out to programs in Dec/Jan when those with too many interviews hopefully start canceling some =)

 

[downwithDTB]

As I've said before, we interview just about every AMG or DO student who applies from the region, and that group alone has filled up many more of our interview slots this year. I think we've winnowed out the best of the USIMGs and FMGs, and now we're into a pool of a couple of hundred very similar appearing applications that are all interview-able, will probably be competent residents and nice people, but just don't stand out from the other hundred that want the same 10 remaining interview spots. (And of course, I'm worrying that I'm interviewing the same bunch of applicants that everyone else is, and that in the end they are going to choose a place with a bigger name or perceived stature, and leave me grasping straws in the SOAP...)

Bottom line: it's going to be tough to be a fair-to-middling Caribbean grad this cycle. [/QUOTE]

It's pretty interesting that after 20+ years of education, standardized testing, there's not real way to meaningfully distinguish between a large portion of the applicant crowd. Similarly, I found that it's pretty darn hard to distinguish between many programs based on the information available and make an informed choice. The match was created in a time when residency slots were > graduates. But now that grads >> slots, we have a situation where it's almost impossible for a fair assessment of reasonable candidates, increasing the probability of "poor matches."

Importantly, with the total number of applicants/slot at some programs being nuts and PDs having to decide to A) not interview candidates who might be *too good* or B) arbitrarily select applicants they thing might rank them high over others who are equally as good, the match becomes unwieldy and unfair... would another potential solution be an interview match? Programs could rank applicants into equally competitive bunches and set a number of invites. Applicants could do the same with a number of interviews. Within a week it would be all figured out. Cancellations would then just trigger an automatic "next in line" invite.

Also, it's going to continue to be tougher and tougher to be a Carribbean grad of any level as the number of US MD/DO grads keeps increasing.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

There's no more good reason to go to a Caribbean med school.

Fact#1. The nation's medical schools are on track to reach targeted enrollment increases of nearly 30% within four years (by 2019).

Fact#2. There is no enthusiasm among policy leaders or politicians to increase the number of federally-funded residency spots. (The nation’s medical schools and teaching hospitals have stepped up to address these shortages by expanding their enrollments and voluntarily creating new residency training positions. However, additional federal budget cuts to teaching hospitals make significant further expansion of residency training programs highly unlikely, and some programs, facing declining clinical revenue, may be forced to close. )

#1 + #2 = IMGs & FMGs screwed more and more with each passing year.

 

[thxleave]

I like how this thread sidetracked to bashing Caribs. Not disagreeing but if you guys want to bash Caribs, there are tons of other threads.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Yes, I suppose I did sidetrack a little. Well, I was never a fan of Caribs for a number of reasons I will dutifully keep quiet about here.

 

[downwithDTB]

To be clear, my statement was not intended to bash anyone, only to comment on changing enrollment statistics and how they may affect residency applicants and the number of applications that PDs review.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Hi All,

This might be a repetitive question but with a spin. Currently, I have 10 interviews at decent/good psychiatry programs and I'm happy with the number of interviews I have except for the fact that I'm couples matching with my sig other who is matching into Pediatrics. Some of our interviews are in the same location but most are not and he also has a significantly more interviews than I do. It's been radio-silent for me for the past few days and I'm getting anxious that the stream of interview invites has started to slow down/stop for me. How should I reach out to PD for interviews and should I mention couples matching? Also I would like to reach out to some of the better programs (top 20) for interviews but with my stats (below) does it make sense to do that? Also, I'm realizing that not having my Step 2 scores might be hurting me? Thoughts?

My stats: Step 1 (224), Step 2CK (taking in early Nov), Step 2CS (taking in early Nov), clinical grades (HP in everything but P in Med/Peds/Primary Care), no research, no red flags, mid-tier AMG

I appreciate the responses!

The PD of my medical school's psych residency says that she gets all kinds of calls/emails/etc insisting that the applicant be granted an interview, but the ones that she DOES strongly consider are people couples matching/have a significant other with career prospects in the area. I was just in my PD's office (different program), and the residency coordinator was telling me how the phone is constantly ringing with applicants asking for interviews. Nevertheless, there were two programs from which I had not heard but in which I was interested, and for both of them I called the program coordinator, who then called back offering me an interview (one was in Oct, one was in December I think). I also emailed program directors, but I am not sure how much good that did. So, the point is, a lot of people are contacting PDs/program coordinators, but having a significant other/couples matching adds legitimacy to your interview request. Good luck!

 

[bd290]

I like how this thread sidetracked to bashing Caribs. Not disagreeing but if you guys want to bash Caribs, there are tons of other threads.

I don't think pointing out the reality is "bashing caribs"

but the ones that she DOES strongly consider are people couples matching/have a significant other with career prospects in the area.

Yay. More ridiculous favoritism like people being able to pick out their schedules ahead of anyone else because they have children.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

I don't think pointing out the reality is "bashing caribs"



Yay. More ridiculous favoritism like people being able to pick out their schedules ahead of anyone else because they have children.

No. Some applicants are dying to match anywhere, whereas others are hell bent on matching at the most elite program possible. As a result, PDs/coordinators hear all kinds of BS from applicants about why he or she is ideally suited for that specific program, knowing that the applicant is likely sending this to multiple places. However, if a good applicant specifically says that significant other has job opportunities or person with whom I am couples matching really likes X program in this city/at this hospital, the program director might say "this person might actually come here (above other places) if we rank them in a matchable position." Now of course, applicants have picked up on this and can lie about having a "significant other with job opportunities in this area," but I think an interview can at least gauge the veracity of that claim to some extent.

 

[bd290]

No. Some applicants are dying to match anywhere, whereas others are hell bent on matching at the most elite program possible. As a result, PDs/coordinators hear all kinds of BS from applicants about why he or she is ideally suited for that specific program, knowing that the applicant is likely sending this to multiple places. However, if a good applicant specifically says that significant other has job opportunities or person with whom I am couples matching really likes X program in this city/at this hospital, the program director might say "this person might actually come here (above other places) if we rank them in a matchable position." Now of course, applicants have picked up on this and can lie about having a "significant other with job opportunities in this area," but I think an interview can at least gauge the veracity of that claim to some extent.

Did someone force them to get married or couples match?

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Did someone force them to get married or couples match?

I think you are missing the point. Just as applicants are competing for the best spots, PDs strive to put together the best residency class that they can. Part of that is using some strategy in determining interview invites, and thus it makes sense to interview someone who, all else equal, is likely going to rank the program in a matchable position rather than someone with no geographic restrictions who is trying to land at the best place possible.

 

[bd290]

I think you are missing the point. Just as applicants are competing for the best spots, PDs strive to put together the best residency class that they can. Part of that is using some strategy in determining interview invites, and thus it makes sense to interview someone who, all else equal, is likely going to rank the program in a matchable position rather than someone with no geographic restrictions who is trying to land at the best place possible.

Actually I'm completely capable of following the point and still thinking it's stupid.

This kind of junk is why I'm stuck in a crap rotation right now. All the breeders popped out babies and got a first crack at 4th year rotations. Welcome to required courses all over interview season.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Take some solace in the fact that Karma punishes breeders plenty. No one is complete until they procreate, then they are finished. The only things worse than requirements during interview season are midnight feedings.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Actually I'm completely capable of following the point and still thinking it's stupid.

This kind of junk is why I'm stuck in a crap rotation right now. All the breeders popped out babies and got a first crack at 4th year rotations. Welcome to required courses all over interview season.

Get used to it. Psychiatry is becoming increasingly female dominant, and guess what happens to the call schedule when someone goes on 3 months of maternity leave... BTW I am a single male (and likewise had no geographic ties during interview season). I can either complain about things like this or realize that I can't control the system/what other people do and just move on. I find my serenity is much greater when I do the latter.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Take some solace in the fact that Karma punishes breeders plenty. No one is complete until they procreate, then they are finished. The only things worse than requirements during interview season are midnight feedings.

...and being up way too far past midnight waiting for teenagers to come home!
Too old for this.

 

[bd290]

Get used to it. Psychiatry is becoming increasingly female dominant, and guess what happens to the call schedule when someone goes on 3 months of maternity leave... BTW I am a single male (and likewise had no geographic ties during interview season). I can either complain about things like this or realize that I can't control the system/what other people do and just move on. I find my serenity is much greater when I do the latter.

My serenity usually lies in complaining about it. And maybe telling someone to **** themselves.

 

[Dharma]

Actually I'm completely capable of following the point and still thinking it's stupid.

This kind of junk is why I'm stuck in a crap rotation right now. All the breeders popped out babies and got a first crack at 4th year rotations. Welcome to required courses all over interview season.

Not only are my rotations required but I also only get 10 days off for interviews... for the entire interview season that is. That's life homie. Roll with it or get rolled over.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Maybe we should just hold massive group interviews late Saturday or early Sunday so we can interview most of the flood of applicants and no one will have to miss any school. We wouldn’t learn much about each other, but you could go to about 20 interviews.

 

[thxleave]

Maybe we should just hold massive group interviews late Saturday or early Sunday so we can interview most of the flood of applicants and no one will have to miss any school. We wouldn’t learn much about each other, but you could go to about 20 interviews.

The most sensible thing I heard on SDN all day.

 

[bd290]

Not only are my rotations required but I also only get 10 days off for interviews... for the entire interview season that is. That's life homie. Roll with it or get rolled over.

We only get 2 days per course. Meaning that unless you do what basically everyone in the school does - make deals with attendings and lie on your hours logs, you can go on like 6 interviews total. Since the school wouldn't have enough rotation spots for everyone to complete their required courses if they didn't offer required courses in october-january you're getting screwed unless you luck out or pop a baby out/do something else that gets you an advantage.

 

[Wyvernrider]

We only get 2 days per course. Meaning that unless you do what basically everyone in the school does - make deals with attendings and lie on your hours logs, you can go on like 6 interviews total. Since the school wouldn't have enough rotation spots for everyone to complete their required courses if they didn't offer required courses in october-january you're getting screwed unless you luck out or pop a baby out/do something else that gets you an advantage.

That's crazy. I have a single interview in CA that I need to take 3 days off because of flight time+time zones to make it to both the interview and post-interview "happy hour." I can't imagine most attendings caring that much.

 

[Rogue Penguin]

Personally, I'd rather have required courses during interview season than a baby. I think I'd rather fail to match than be stuck with a baby actually. In The Walking Dead tv show, they give Rick a baby to serve as a handicap. I'm glad someone wants to procreate, because I sure don't want that extra responsibility.

At my school, the attending/resident often don't know when we have didactics or whatever. If someone fails to show up, it's generally assumed that they weren't supposed to be there anyway. Plus, they're too worried about doing their clinical work and seeing patients to care that much about us. We also don't have hour logs. Geez. Hearing stuff like that makes me glad I picked a chiller med school even if it did mean slightly less prestige. I can't believe people's schools treat them like delinquent children rather than aspiring professionals.

I've emailed 3 PDs at programs I was very strongly interested in. I got an interview the same day from one of the programs. I got a "this year has been exceptionally competitive. But we'll carefully review your application". And I got nothing back from the third one (which was probably the most traditionally competitive of the three). My successful emails discussed specific aspects of the program that interest me and a personal connection to the program/area. For the third, I had no personal tie, unfortunately. I also got my S.O.'s PI to contact one PD to verify that I had a real relationship with a real person at the school... fingers crossed that "but we'll carefully review your application" leads to something.

 

[jakeislove]

It probably helps in rare cases.

There are places I'd love to live because we'd be near family (that we actually like) and friends. I'd move to Philly for Holts, LOL! I have family there but would see the Holts staff more often. Obviously, something like that can't be put in an email.

 

[Rogue Penguin]

What is Holts?

 

[kaylasdf123]

Wow...this thread really took some interesting tangents. Thanks for the advice everyone. I have another question for you all.

So I emailed one of the programs where my sig other has an interview. This program just offered me an interview even though all of their spots are full (they say) but for the same day as another program's interview that I've already accepted. Is it rude for me to ask for another date if this program is making accommodations for me. I'd much rather go to the program that just offered me an interview. Should I reschedule my other interview?

 

[Wyvernrider]

Personally, I'd rather have required courses during interview season than a baby. I think I'd rather fail to match than be stuck with a baby actually. In The Walking Dead tv show, they give Rick a baby to serve as a handicap. I'm glad someone wants to procreate, because I sure don't want that extra responsibility.

At my school, the attending/resident often don't know when we have didactics or whatever. If someone fails to show up, it's generally assumed that they weren't supposed to be there anyway. Plus, they're too worried about doing their clinical work and seeing patients to care that much about us. We also don't have hour logs. Geez. Hearing stuff like that makes me glad I picked a chiller med school even if it did mean slightly less prestige. I can't believe people's schools treat them like delinquent children rather than aspiring professionals.

I've emailed 3 PDs at programs I was very strongly interested in. I got an interview the same day from one of the programs. I got a "this year has been exceptionally competitive. But we'll carefully review your application". And I got nothing back from the third one (which was probably the most traditionally competitive of the three). My successful emails discussed specific aspects of the program that interest me and a personal connection to the program/area. For the third, I had no personal tie, unfortunately. I also got my S.O.'s PI to contact one PD to verify that I had a real relationship with a real person at the school... fingers crossed that "but we'll carefully review your application" leads to something.

I actually got an interview to one of my dream programs as a direct result of giving a program coordinator a call expressing my interest and politely asking for the status of my application. The coordinator was very pleasant and looked up my application saw that many committee members had said yes and scheduled an interview with me on the phone.

 

[thxleave]

So does this mean if there is no geographic ties, no point sending emails?

I am a USIMG, but there are places I really want to check out like Reno. Since the location looks perfect.

But I am not sure I will rank them high until February. Don't want to be a liar, but I am curious to check out some specific places.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Wow...this thread really took some interesting tangents. Thanks for the advice everyone. I have another question for you all.

So I emailed one of the programs where my sig other has an interview. This program just offered me an interview even though all of their spots are full (they say) but for the same day as another program's interview that I've already accepted. Is it rude for me to ask for another date if this program is making accommodations for me. I'd much rather go to the program that just offered me an interview. Should I reschedule my other interview?

If you think it's easier to reschedule the other program to open this up, go ahead and try. But there'd be nothing wrong with saying "Thanks, but I'm really in a bind--is there possibly a way I could fit in on ____ or ____ date?

 

[Rogue Penguin]

So does this mean if there is no geographic ties, no point sending emails?

I am a USIMG, but there are places I really want to check out like Reno. Since the location looks perfect.

But I am not sure I will rank them high until February. Don't want to be a liar, but I am curious to check out some specific places.

My friend had a success with an email to a program where she had no ties. I just haven't been as lucky.

 

[thxleave]

My friend had a success with an email to a program where she had no ties. I just haven't been as lucky.

Thanks. I'll try this Monday. Going to shoot emails at some places I have my eye on, that I seen have taken IMG's before.

 

[jakeislove]

What is Holts?

Favorite cigar store, LOL!

 

[PsyYaYaYaYai]

Any thoughts on how viable of a candidate you are if you do get an interview only after contacting the program?

 

[notdeadyet]

Any thoughts on how viable of a candidate you are if you do get an interview only after contacting the program?

If you got an interview, you are a viable candidate. No program willingly wastes time to interview folks they are not interested in potentially matching.