READ before applying to Private Schools

[Realitydentalstudent]

this right here.

- most everyone in this thread, except for the fool above that is hilariously cheerleading PAYE, is going to extend repayment to 30yrs before the ink on their diploma dries.
- we'll all take our first job and make anywhere from $90k to the high $100s
- it's going to suck at first, but we'll get better, and faster, and that will lead to more production and more income
- we'll then be able to jump ship to better associateship opportunities, or (if you have the stones) into practice ownership

if you're not a complete dolt, what is described above will happen to you. more money will come in but your expenses (with respect to your edu loans at least, will remain static). again, if you're smart with your finances, you'll knock down more than the monthly payment on your debt as you go along until they're all paid off and you've held yourself accountable for paying the entrance price you agreed upon to become a dentist.

Well the 30year plan would obviously lower the monthly payment but can you imagine paying $3000 a month for 30 years and effectively paying 1million for your dental education?

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[Ferneezy]

Well the 30year plan would obviously lower the monthly payment but can you imagine paying $3000 a month for 30 years and effectively paying 1million for your dental education?

don't need to imagine it, because it will be paid off early...which is what i was alluding to when i wrote about paying more than the monthly payment as income goes up.

is loan prepayment a foreign concept here?

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

don't need to imagine it, because it will be paid off early...which is what i was alluding to when i wrote about paying more than the monthly payment as income goes up.

is loan prepayment a foreign concept here?

Well if you went with the 30 year payment plan in your first few years to wait till you get a more established income, you will have to obviously put more into your loans with the new higher income. This would obviously mean that you would not reek the benefits from your income increase. That is the whole point of the thread, debt reduces your take home pay more seriously than most pre-dents think. The reality is, whichever way you decide to look at it, for the AVERAGE graduate with a 400k debt, they are looking at living like a student for around 10years after graduation.

 

[Weakfart]

Someone start a thread on how to fake your death and start up as a Dentist in another country.

 

[Cello]

Just because you opt for a 30-year repayment doesn't mean you have to take 30 years to payback your loan.

 

[asusundevilll]

Well if you went with the 30 year payment plan in your first few years to wait till you get a more established income, you will have to obviously put more into your loans with the new higher income. This would obviously mean that you would not reek the benefits from your income increase. That is the whole point of the thread, debt reduces your take home pay more seriously than most pre-dents think. The reality is, whichever way you decide to look at it, for the AVERAGE graduate with a 400k debt, they are looking at living like a student for around 10years after graduation.

ya I don't think pre dents really look at the reality of the situation, a lot of them are coming straight out of college and don't even think about the reality of the debt. and its hilarious when predents think they can just move to some rural area and make 300k their first year LOL.
a lot more predents need to spend some time in dentaltown and read about the debt load, its really humbling.

 

[sgv]

right now all you see are numbers...when you start working and work hard, it's an incredibly discouraging feeling to see half of your paycheck go to someone else and make less than $50k/year considering the amount of time and energy you've invested to get to where you are.

 

[sgv]

I don't understand though. I want to be a dentist. I worked hard in undergrad. I did well on the DAT. I have gone to interviews already. Suppose I get accepted to a private dental school. Cost would be 400k plus. So what? Do I give up everything now? No. People who want to be dentists will become dentists.

sure you can be a dentist but you'll either be a broke dentist for a good decade or end up paying a million bucks for a 4 year education

 

[DrillSoHard]

LOL so many trolls on this thread, but so much good information. Bottom line is you need to be well educated on the amount of loans you're accruing and to not live lavishly during dental school AND for the first few years after graduation so you can knock off as much debt as possible. Don't let the cost of a dental school education scare you away from dentistry. Educate yourself on the different loan repayment options, plan accordingly, DON'T buy that new M6 Gran Coupe fresh out of D-School , and you'll be fine.

S/O all the pear doe

 

[gatsby121]

im really surprised more people dont apply for HPSP..... 4 years of getting paid close to what new associates make and finishing with no debt....

inb4 someone mentions the negatives of possibly being deployed LOL

 

[SM555]

im really surprised more people dont apply for HPSP..... 4 years of getting paid close to what new associates make and finishing with no debt....

inb4 someone mentions the negatives of possibly being deployed LOL

There are a lot of other draw backs besides getting deployed. I believe they are on the previous page. However, the biggest draw back for me since I plan on entering a private practice is the four years I will lose acquiring patients in the area, not to mention the additional four years that youcould get called back.

 

[asusundevilll]

im really surprised more people dont apply for HPSP..... 4 years of getting paid close to what new associates make and finishing with no debt....

inb4 someone mentions the negatives of possibly being deployed LOL

well all three branches of the military still run out of scholarships to hand out ever year so its not like they don't have enough applicants..

 

[Aestheticbrah]

In my opinion, you would be crazy (in a financial sense) not to apply for the military scholarship if you go to a private school. It is nearly impossible via any other way to be debt free 4 years after graduation. The fact that pre-dents seem to think they will be better off going into private practice in today's market as opposed to a military scholarship shows you guys have much to learn about the industry.

Also in all honesty, the negative responses by the pre-dents here to the numbers calculated are the reason these private schools exist. It is people with thinking like "have you ever seen a broke dentist" that the private schools rely upon to fill their spots.

For all those who doubt what I say, go take a wonder around dentaltown to get the opinion from 100s practicing dentists what they think about private school tuition, you will be humbled.

Unless of course, you pre-dents know more than practicing dentists about the industry.

 

[gatsby121]

There are a lot of other draw backs besides getting deployed. I believe they are on the previous page. However, the biggest draw back for me since I plan on entering a private practice is the four years I will lose acquiring patients in the area, not to mention the additional four years that youcould get called back.

id rather lose 4 years of acquiring patients than have debt over $500,000 with interest that never sleeps which as discussed above has the potential of reaching over a million dollars. We never know what might happen in the future but if the past tells us anything i have a better chance of being eaten by a shark in iowa than getting "called back" during inactive duty. and if i do, so be it! i personally have always wanted to serve my country.

well all three branches of the military still run out of scholarships to hand out ever year so its not like they don't have enough applicants..

oh i know, they definitely do run out i'm just surprised more people don't attempt to get one!

In my opinion, you would be crazy (in a financial sense) not to apply for the military scholarship if you go to a private school. It is nearly impossible via any other way to be debt free 4 years after graduation. The fact that pre-dents seem to think they will be better off going into private practice in today's market as opposed to a military scholarship shows you guys have much to learn about the industry.

Also in all honesty, the negative responses by the pre-dents here to the numbers calculated are the reason these private schools exist. It is people with thinking like "have you ever seen a broke dentist" that the private schools rely upon to fill their spots.

For all those who doubt what I say, go take a wonder around dentaltown to get the opinion from 100s practicing dentists what they think about private school tuition, you will be humbled.

Unless of course, you pre-dents know more than practicing dentists about the industry.

THIS

 

[LaughingGas]

Very informative. I am actually jealous of people that can apply for HPSP.

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

In my opinion, you would be crazy (in a financial sense) not to apply for the military scholarship if you go to a private school. It is nearly impossible via any other way to be debt free 4 years after graduation. The fact that pre-dents seem to think they will be better off going into private practice in today's market as opposed to a military scholarship shows you guys have much to learn about the industry.

Also in all honesty, the negative responses by the pre-dents here to the numbers calculated are the reason these private schools exist. It is people with thinking like "have you ever seen a broke dentist" that the private schools rely upon to fill their spots.

For all those who doubt what I say, go take a wonder around dentaltown to get the opinion from 100s practicing dentists what they think about private school tuition, you will be humbled.

Unless of course, you pre-dents know more than practicing dentists about the industry.

Ah, very good points. It is pretty insane for someone to borrow half a million dollars for an investment which they know very little about. Yet this happens every year and every year new dental graduates are completely shocked by the reduction in lifestyle student loans cause. I was just trying to put some realistic numbers up to give students applying to private schools something to think about before they make their decisions.
And also hint at how ridiculous it is that many pre-dents applying to private schools think they will live the lifestyle of the current dentists, when students today are graduating with anywhere between quadruple to 1000% the student debt in a market where new dental schools are opening all the time and class sizes are increasing.

 

[Toothydream]

Ah, very good points. It is pretty insane for someone to borrow half a million dollars for an investment which they know very little about. Yet this happens every year and every year new dental graduates are completely shocked by the reduction in lifestyle student loans cause. I was just trying to put some realistic numbers up to give students applying to private schools something to think about before they make their decisions.
And also hint at how ridiculous it is that many pre-dents think they will live the lifestyle of the current dentists, when students today are graduating with anywhere between quadruple to 1000% the student debt in a market where new dental schools are opening all the time and class sizes are increasing.

Truth. I see this delusion all the time in my dental school. Every student thinks their gonna be special, somehow they are gonna be at the far right of the bell curve making 200k first year. Every class that has graduated has fallen to match the bell curve, yet everybody thinks they can make much more than average in an industry that is getting more competitive by the minute.

 

[Toothydream]

Dec 1st has approached, I recommend reviewing these threads before making a decision!

 

[BioDoc]

The 4 years of lost wages from going to dental school wasn't included in the calculations also.

 

[Incis0r]

Why isn't this thread stickied?

 

[PocketRocket]

What a scary situation we're all getting our selves into.. How does specializing work into all of this? Wouldn't your ROI be significantly greater?

 

[Incis0r]

What a scary situation we're all getting our selves into.. How does specializing work into all of this? Wouldn't your ROI be significantly greater?

I know this dentist who just graduated from a $400K private school, full loans, and is doing a 2 year Ortho residency that costs another $200K. So he'll be $600K in debt before interest and before he even earns a cent as a dentist.

Average Ortho salary according to WSJ (http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014...re-than-ceos-10-facts-about-wages-in-america/) is $196K, after federal taxes 151K. So monthly take home is $12.5K/month.

Now let's assume the standard 7% interest rate on unsubsidized loans and agree to pay off the loan within 10 years of Ortho Residency.

The magic number/his monthly payment will be: $9.1K/month!!!!

If he decides to pay it over 30 years (i.e. he'll be turning 60 around the time he's finished with paying for dental school), his monthly loan payment will be $5.2K/month.

 

[mariojoa]

International students: There is no difference between state schools and private schools.............

 

[BioDoc]

Some other points to consider:

1.) OP did his calculations according to Florida, which is a state that has no state income tax.

2.) The situation is very realistic if u plan on working in saturated area (CA, NY, etc).

If you want to beat the odds, you are going to work in a rural area and I don't think many students going to dental school envision themselves working their butts off just to live somewhere undesirable afterwards.

 

[teefdocta]

International students: There is no difference between state schools and private schools.............

How are you going to pay for dental school? I already thought of private loan for the first year lol. Hope to get my green card by the 2nd year haha

 

[nonociceptors]

Some other points to consider:

1.) OP did his calculations according to Florida, which is a state that has no state income tax.

2.) The situation is very realistic if u plan on working in saturated area (CA, NY, etc).

If you want to beat the odds, you are going to work in a rural area and I don't think many students going to dental school envision themselves working their butts off just to live somewhere undesirable afterwards.

I guess I'm lucky in that I actually want to live in a small town after graduation because all I need to be happy is somewhere close to the great outdoors. Rural = desirable for me!

 

[oralcare123]

Very depressing picture OP, very depressing. If the debt is that high, then make more, work more days, more hours. Don't cry, that you are making $6 an hour

 

[Ollivander]

Step 1) Take out loans.
Step 2) Graduate from dental school.
Step 3) Move back in with parents and work while living with them.
Step 4) Pay back loans in 2-3 years.
Step 5) PROFIT.

 

[oralcare123]

right now all you see are numbers...when you start working and work hard, it's an incredibly discouraging feeling to see half of your paycheck go to someone else and make less than $50k/year considering the amount of time and energy you've invested to get to where you are.

How it feels to see your tuition payed from nowhere? There is a payback time for everything

 

[Incis0r]

Step 1) Take out loans.
Step 2) Graduate from dental school.
Step 3) Move back in with parents and work while living with them.
Step 4) Pay back loans in 2-3 years.
Step 5) PROFIT.

I'm willing to do all but #3. LOL.

 

[nonociceptors]

Step 1) Take out loans.
Step 2) Graduate from dental school.
Step 3) Move back in with parents and work while living with them.
Step 4) Pay back loans in 2-3 years.
Step 5) PROFIT.

Step 3.5) Eviscerate your social life and drain your pool of dating opportunities!

 

[fogorvostan]

Step 3.5) Eviscerate your social life and drain your pool of dating opportunities!

Step 3.75) Marry rich

 

[Project Pat]

Don't worry bruh, I got my rap career in my back pocket. I'm gonna be BIG.

you and me both brotha

 

[Ollivander]

Step 3.5) Eviscerate your social life and drain your pool of dating opportunities!

You're not wrong. However, I ultimately want to move to another country and practice dentistry. If living with my parents for a span of time allows me to do that then I don't really care what people think. I feel like there are bigger things meant for me in the world, and I don't want that debt over my head for 10-15 years that restricts me from pursuing my goals and dreams.

I'm not saying I'm going to or plan on doing the above, or even that my parents would want me to, but I have thrown around the idea in the back of my head because my parents live in an undeserved area where I could gain financial aid in helping me pay back my loans if I practiced near the area.

 

[Incis0r]

You're not wrong. However, I ultimately want to move to another country and practice dentistry. If living with my parents for a span of time allows me to do that then I don't really care what people think. I feel like there are bigger things meant for me in the world, and I don't want that debt over my head for 10-15 years that restricts me from pursuing my goals and dreams.

I'm not saying I'm going to or plan on doing the above, or even that my parents would want me to, but I have thrown around the idea in the back of my head because my parents live in an undeserved area where I could gain financial aid in helping me pay back my loans if I practiced near the area.

Which country?

 

[PocketRocket]

http://www.dentaltown.com/dentaltown/article.aspx?i=273&aid=3696

 

[Weakfart]

Which country?

Delaware.

 

[Ollivander]

Which country?

I've considered the UAE and Australia. If I went to the UAE it'd be Dubai or Abu Dhabi. If I went to Australia it'd probably be on the outskirts of Sydney. Regardless of the location I pick, I'll probably do missionary work in Central or South America for a portion of each year. This is all in an ideal world, but I think I can make it happen. The only thing standing in my way is the huge about of debt that will be a burden coming out of dental school. One which could be offset if I lived at home for 2 or 3 years.

 

[toothdriller2k17]

this doesn't mean a thing to dental students. everyone's perception is so misconstrued that they think they're gonna be making 200k+ out of school

 

[Pro-Dentite19]

Do everything you can to get into your State School! I was one of the lucky ones to do so and will graduate with less that 200K in debt.

Also, I get a lot of good natured ribbing from my classmates for being an "old" non-trad student, but they all stop laughing when I tell them that by working for 8 years I was able to save up enough money to write a check today for all four years of school.

Yeah I will be in my mid-30's by the time I graduate, but I will also have the option of being 100% debt free.

 

[Incis0r]

Do everything you can to get into your State School! I was one of the lucky ones to do so and will graduate with less that 200K in debt.

Also, I get a lot of good natured ribbing from my classmates for being an "old" non-trad student, but they all stop laughing when I tell them that by working for 8 years I was able to save up enough money to write a check today for all four years of school.

Yeah I will be in my mid-30's by the time I graduate, but I will also have the option of being 100% debt free.

Quoted for Truth. Being debt-free in your mid-30s must feel awesome.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

Quoted for Truth. Being debt-free in your mid-30s must feel awesome.

Until the time comes around when he wants to purchase a house and purchase/start a practice.

 

[ggj]

I just wanted to share these calculations with you to show you guys a realistic scenario if you decided to go to a PRIVATE SCHOOL.

Total debt: 400k
10 year Loan repayment plan: $4,603.21/month or $55,236/ year
FinAid | Calculators | Loan Calculator

1st year salary: $100,000
After federal and state income tax e.g in Florida: $71,804.25
Salary Paycheck Calculator

After loan repayment: $71,804- $55,236= $16, 568
Disability and malpractice insurance estimate: $500/month or $6000/year
True take home pay: $16, 568 - $6000= $10, 568

What job takes home $10, 568 after tax?
One that pays $13,000/year or $6.25/hr!

Did you go through 8 years of school to make $6.25/hr at age 26?



2nd year salary: $120,000
After federal and state income tax e.g in Florida: $84,860.25

After loan repayment: $84,860- $55,236= $29, 624
Disability and malpractice insurance estimate: $500/month or $6000/year
True take home pay: $29, 624 - $6000= $23, 624

What job takes home $23, 624 after tax?
One that pays $30, 000/year or $14.42/hr!

3rd year salary: $120, 000 so same situation




4th year salary and remaining years of debt repayment: $150,000
After federal and state income tax e.g in Florida: $106,025.25

After loan repayment: $106, 025.25- $55,236= $50, 789
Disability and malpractice insurance estimate: $500/month or $6000/year
True take home pay: $50, 789 - $6000= $44, 789

What job takes home $44, 789after tax?
One that pays $60, 000/year or $28.84/hr

Jobs that make around that salary range include
30 Jobs That Pay $30 An Hour

Ok so a few things about the numbers is that

1. They are quite optimistic because
I used 6.8% interest when in actual fact the interest is increasing yearly.
I used the debt after 4years at 400k when it is probably between 450-550k after living costs for those applying this cycle.
This does assumes no undergrad debt.
Also this does not include health insurance for which the average american pays ~$4000/year and MORE if you are paying for an entire family.
Does not include the cost of CE courses required to advance your career e.g Implant courses are $10,000.
Also having kids within the 10 years or loosing your job would totally alter these projections.
And finally this represents a pretty good scenario in regards to the salary climb for a dentist. 150k/year is the average for an ASSOCIATE as stated by the ADA.

2. But this could be better if
You have a spouse that is willing to pay living costs during dental school or willing to help with living costs during loan repayment.
Are one of those lucky associates that are able to make 200k in their first year
Obviously if you go to a 15year loan repayment plan.

Finally you have to remember that there is rent/mortgage, car insurance, electric and water bills to pay. Looking back at the numbers I don't know if a 10year repayment plan is realistic for anybody earning under 130k in their first year. But anyway, if these numbers discourage you then I recommend sticking to in state. I mean ofcourse it is still possible to make a good living in dentistry even with the 400k debt load but these numbers are quite realistic for the average student/dentist. And last but not least, remember that even though things may suck for 10-15 years, after you have repaid your loans things will be good.


EDIT: Ok since everyone was talking about the 15 year plan and a higher starting salary lets see the scenario:


Total debt: 400k
15 year Loan repayment plan: $3,550.74/month or $42,600/ year

1st year salary: $120,000
After federal and state income tax e.g in Florida: $84,860.25

After loan repayment: $84,860- $42,600= $42, 260
Disability and malpractice insurance estimate: $500/month or $6000/year
True take home pay: $42, 260 - $6000= $36, 260

What job takes home $36, 260 after tax?
One that pays $47, 000/year or $22.59/hr!

2nd year salary: $130, 000
After federal and state income tax e.g in Florida: $91, 915.25

After loan repayment: $91, 915- $42,600= $49, 315
Disability and malpractice insurance estimate: $500/month or $6000/year
True take home pay: $49, 315 - $6000= $43, 315

What job takes home $43, 315 after tax?
One that pays $58, 769/year or $28.25/hr!

3rd year salary: $130, 000 so same situation


4th year salary and remaining years of debt repayment: $150,000
After federal and state income tax e.g in Florida: $106,025.25

After loan repayment: $106, 025.25- $42, 600= $63, 425
Disability and malpractice insurance estimate: $500/month or $6000/year
True take home pay: $63, 425 - $6000= $57, 425

What job takes home $57, 425after tax?
One that pays $78, 000/year or $37.50/hr

Jobs that make around that salary range include
Advice & Resources | CareerBuilder

Not too bad!

Like I said before, the 400k loan is doable if you land yourself in a good situation but are the above calculations (15 years of a job that really pays you starting from $47, 000 to eventually $78, 000 a year) really what you expected for a dentist? You have to keep in mind that the current cohort of students graduating from private schools is a running experiment, no one really knows if dentistry will be lucrative at these debt amounts for the average graduate.

Also remember: To reach your income potential of 200k/ year you would need to buy a practice, so with a practice loan you have to remember that it will set your income back quite a bit, towards a first year associate's salary usually.
Let's Buy a Dental Practice

what about income-adjusted repayment ?