Reapply, smp, or diy post-bacc?

[Dr. Sophrosyne]

Hi all! Advice please

I applied to about 15 DO schools last cycle and got wait-listed at two (KCUMB & ATSU-SOMA).

uGPA: cGPA- 3.49, sGPA- 3.28
Mcat: 1st- 25, 2nd- 24
Strong personal statement and strong focus on serving underserved populations in my application.
Lots of extracurriculars experience. Lead medical mission trips to Honduras. Worked extensively with refugee families. Worked with a non-profit lead by physicians and was able to shadow a lot and see lots of patients. CPR instructor. Tutored kids for 4 years. Worked as project manager at a EMR company (got to see another side of healthcare industry and worked with hospital administration leaders).

I made a big mistake by not applying to the KCUMB masters program and am looking at other MS programs right. I'll be applying to Rowan and RFU. Any other SMP type programs for which the deadlines haven't passed?

If I can't get into any SMPs, then I'm thinking I can do a DIY postbacc at a 4 year university nearby.

I still haven't resubmitted my AACOMAS application. I plan to do that in the next couple of weeks after I finish the SMP apps.

Any advice?
In particular:
- Any SMPs I can still apply to?
-Should I apply again to schools this round? Would submitting my AACOMAS in mid/end July be too late for DO Schools?
-What else should I do to improve my app?

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[DrMidlife]

Mcat: 1st- 25, 2nd- 24
-What else should I do to improve my app?

Hmm, what else, what else.

 

[ZedsDed]

Identical threads across multiple forums aren't necessary OP.

 

[ZedsDed]

Hmm, what else, what else.

Is it just me or did it somehow get around that success in an SMP will remedy a low MCAT score? Not sure if delusional premeds (not directed at you OP) are pulling this out of thin air, or if SMPs are marketing their programs as the vague catchall solution for the less-than-stellar applicant.

 

[DrMidlife]

ongoing spontaneous grasping at straws, always a hope that beating the MCAT won't be required.

 

[Faha]

What schools did you apply to last time ?

 

[Grace184]

OP, are you picking up on what's being put down? Smelling what you're stepping in? Studying for (taking classes, if necessary) and retaking the MCAT can be your 40k solution to SMPs.

 

[mk04447]

Is it just me or did it somehow get around that success in an SMP will remedy a low MCAT score? Not sure if delusional premeds (not directed at you OP) are pulling this out of thin air, or if SMPs are marketing their programs as the vague catchall solution for the less-than-stellar applicant.

What are you basing this comment on? Did you attend an SMP or are you basing your bias on others things you've read on SDN? The 24/25 mark will get you interviews with solid performance in an SMP.

 

[DrMidlife]

People get seriously pissed off when I talk about why a 24/25 or even a 27 isn't good enough. It isn't good enough. Sitting on a below average MCAT score means you're postponing your mastery of hours-long multiple choice exams covering huge boatloads of content until you're in med school (if you get in). You might get away with it. My (unfortunately) many former classmates and colleagues who didn't pass enough exams in med school and are now figuring out how to pay back $200k for half a DO or MD degree would tell you to get over yourself and make yourself work to master your exam skills before med school. You'll be more broken in med school, not less.

(Let's update the conversation to say "top 20%" or "top 30%" MCAT because who knows what the new 30 is.)

Don't go to a med school that lets you in with a low MCAT. They'll show you out as easily as they showed you in. SMP admissions is just one door. Med school admissions is just one door. You have to keep fighting your way through more and more scary doors in this career choice. For the love of all that's holy please care about how much harder the exams get over time and invest accordingly.

Your choices for specialty and residency will rest on your board scores, which rest on your med school exam scores, which rest on your MCAT score, which rests on your undergrad exam scores. Argue with this all you like. Your competition came in without problems in their GPA and MCAT. Your competition got specialized tutoring for test taking since they were 8 years old. Your competition doesn't have a nervous breakdown after every exam, worrying if they passed or not, week after week. Your competition missed one question to your 18, and your competition is highly pimpable on rounds as you stammer and say "I don't know". Your competition knows the material better than you do. Respect your competition. Care about the material.

So you "just" want to do primary care? Great, I hope you like rural sites far from the coasts.

tl;dr: sit on that low MCAT score and see what you can get away with. go to a med school that doesn't give you grief about it. then enjoy that psych residency in a prison on a reservation in a desert. you earned it.

 

[ZedsDed]

What are you basing this comment on? Did you attend an SMP or are you basing your bias on others things you've read on SDN? The 24/25 mark will get you interviews with solid performance in an SMP.

Interview=/=acceptance, but I'll role with it. I could tell you that I will be starting an SMP in the fall, with a 95%tile+ MCAT score, but that really shouldn't matter. You should be looking for consensus. It's interesting how you guys dismiss consensus over SDN from 10 years of posts (which includes many posts from med students, doctors, and AdCom members btw) as "bias." You all would rather follow the anecdote of "knowing a guy" who got into an MD school with a 24 MCAT. So which one of us has the bias?
Legitimate SMPs don't generally admit those with low MCAT scores, so who knows what kind of program you are actually in. For the sake of argument, let's say you get into an SMP with a 24 MCAT score.There are two types of students entering an SMP with a poor MCAT score:
1.) You have a low GPA and a low MCAT score. So an SMP might be part of the solution here, but only sometimes. A decent MCAT score is always part of the solution. See DrMidlifes post if you want to know why.
2.) You have a low MCAT score and a high GPA. An SMP will do absolutely nothing for you here, and you have just waisted tens of thousands of dollars. If that's not enough for you, AdCom members (Goro for example) have said multiple times that they look at this type of an applicant as very foolish, and a poor decision maker.

If by some miracle you get into an MD school without learning proper test-taking skills, see DrMidlife's post for reasons why celebration would be premature.

 

[mk04447]

All I'm arguing is the definition of low. An MCAT at 24/25 is not significantly different from at 26/27, as few as 2 questions difference; these people do just fine in medical school and until recently this would have been considered an average score. Totally agreed anyone with scores in the low low 20's will struggle and will suffer the statistics against them. Someone who works hard in a SMP with a 24/25 can earn an interview, acceptance, and do just fine... however, I admit that's probably the cutoff. So, I think shattering the OPs dreams is premature.

 

[ZedsDed]

All I'm arguing is the definition of low. An MCAT at 24/25 is not significantly different from at 26/27, as few as 2 questions difference; these people do just fine in medical school and until recently this would have been considered an average score. Totally agreed anyone with scores in the low low 20's will struggle and will suffer the statistics against them. Someone who works hard in a SMP with a 24/25 can earn an interview, acceptance, and do just fine... however, I admit that's probably the cutoff. So, I think shattering the OPs dreams is premature.

I believe DrMidlife encouraged the OP to retake the MCAT in her first post. All we're saying is that the first thing that needs to be done to make the OP more competitive is to retake the MCAT. An SMP is a distraction, at best.

 

[mk04447]

I believe DrMidlife encouraged the OP to retake the MCAT in her first post. All we're saying is that the first thing that needs to be done to make the OP more competitive is to retake the MCAT. An SMP is a distraction, at best.

Distraction may be a bit strong.

 

[ZedsDed]

Distraction may be a bit strong.

More like a bit weak. I would say a waste of time/money. As I said earlier, her prospects of getting into, say, GT are much lower with a 24 MCAT score. Hopefully she won't be sucked into a less-than reputable masters program that won't help her one bit.

 

[mk04447]

More like a bit weak. I would say a waste of time/money. As I said earlier, her prospects of getting into, say, GT are much lower with a 24 MCAT score. Hopefully she won't be sucked into a less-than reputable masters program that won't help her one bit.

Not a waste if it works. But, yeah you must pick the right one. Preferably with strong linkage and some sort of guarantee.

 

[ZedsDed]

Not a waste if it works. But, yeah you must pick the right one. Preferably with strong linkage and some sort of guarantee.

If what works? The 24 will keep you out before the SMP. The 24 will keep you out after the SMP.

If, by some miracle, one was able to get into an MD program with strong linkage (i.e. Temple) with a 24 MCAT, then yes, they would be fine. But it's irrelevant. It's a hypothetical that won't happen. The MD SMPs with linkage are literally down to two, and neither Temple nor Tulane will take a 24 MCAT.
Hell, even a DO SMP with strong linkage (and their are quite a few apparently) would be very hesitant about a 24 MCAT score.

 

[mk04447]

Hell, even a DO SMP with strong linkage (and their are quite a few apparently) would be very hesitant about a 24 MCAT score.

You aren't armed with any facts here. This isn't true, not even a little.

 

[ZedsDed]

You aren't armed with any facts here. This isn't true, not even a little.

Really?? The AdCom's at Touros Ca/NY and Western would not be hesitant about a 24 MCAT? I seriously doubt it considering that at least a couple of those schools would auto-screen that MCAT score out of general admissions. Admittedly, this was an off-the-cuff remark on my part, and I didn't have lower-tier DO schools in mind (I have heard disturbing stories about LUCOM recruiting low MCAT applicants...) If you have evidence to the contrary, I am totally open (to my horror) to accepting it.
You understand that for like the last five comments, right up until the very last line of the last comment, my argument was in regards to MD SMPs right? Have you been arguing for DO SMPs this whole time? And yes, I know the thread was originally about getting the OP into a DO school

 

[mk04447]

Really?? The AdCom's at Touros Ca/NY and Western would not be hesitant about a 24 MCAT? I seriously doubt it considering that at least a couple of those schools would auto-screen that MCAT score out of general admissions. Admittedly, this was an off-the-cuff remark on my part, and I didn't have lower-tier DO schools in mind (I have heard disturbing stories about LUCOM recruiting low MCAT applicants...) If you have evidence to the contrary, I am totally open (to my horror) to accepting it.
You understand that for like the last five comments, right up until the very last line of the last comment, my argument was in regards to MD SMPs right? Have you been arguing for DO SMPs this whole time? And yes, I know the thread was originally about getting the OP into a DO school

I was thinking DO SMPs would be more appropriate. Though I think stats are becoming more competitive either way.

 

[GrapesofRath]

DO SMP is the move. You can be competitive for one despite the 24 MCAT.

Call the schools you got interviews at. The MCAT is the obvious reason you didn't get in. But perhaps you'll find there is something else that could have been an issue as well (poor interviewing skills, your app was lacking in something specific EC wise etc).

And to the above discussion there are absolutely people who get into DO schools with 24-25 MCATs. Most do fine in medical school, pass the tests in front of them match into a residency and live happy careers. Hell there are DO schools with median MCATs in the 25-26 range. I'll leave it at that.