Recognizability of the DO degree

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MrChance2

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So, I was in a medical office building the other day.

Dr. Blah Blah, acupuncture physician
Dr. blah blah, chiropractic physician
I assume most DNPs and whoever else introduce themselves as doctor.

I had a procedure done while ago and the CRNA introduced himself as "Doctor _____". I wanted to ask him if his first name was doctor but then I decided I didn't want to wake up in the middle of the procedure so just looked at him funny.

How do DOs who wish to work in private practice outside a hospital differentiate themselves from all the other doctors? What % of the public will know that Dr. William, DO Family practice (or whatever specialty) completed residency and has equivalent or better training than a significant amount of MDs and Dr. William, DNP Family Practice (or whatever specialty) does not or does it even matter regarding who patients choose to see? and the MD, DO, and DNP will all be basically competing equally in patients eyes and the vast majority of it will come down to marketing, networking, and patient satisfaction?

I don't want to scare anyone or add any fuel to the fire. It does seem like questions that need to be addressed though.

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So, I was in a medical office building the other day.

Dr. Blah Blah, acupuncture physician
Dr. blah blah, chiropractic physician
I assume most DNPs and whoever else introduce themselves as doctor.

I had a procedure done while ago and the CRNA introduced himself as "Doctor _____". I wanted to ask him if his first name was doctor but then I decided I didn't want to wake up in the middle of the procedure so just looked at him funny.

How do DOs who wish to work in private practice outside a hospital differentiate themselves from all the other doctors? What % of the public will know that Dr. William, DO Family practice (or whatever specialty) completed residency and has equivalent or better training than a significant amount of MDs and Dr. William, DNP Family Practice (or whatever specialty) does not or does it even matter regarding who patients choose to see? and the MD, DO, and DNP will all be basically competing equally in patients eyes and the vast majority of it will come down to marketing, networking, and patient satisfaction?

I don't want to scare anyone or add any fuel to the fire. It does seem like questions that need to be addressed though.

From what I remember hearing, most introductions follow as "I am Dr. Blah Blah, your attending physician" which should be enough to distinguish between MD/DO and DNP ("I am Dr. Blah Blah, your nurse practitioner").

Would be nice to to have placards in patient rooms discussing the differences though.
 
Usually a doctor introduces themselves by specialty, when appropriate. "I am Dr. MJ, and I'll be the anesthesiologist/dermatologist/surgeon/cardiologist/etc overseeing your case during your admission." For now, that distinction is clear for pretty much all specialties but neurology (chiropractors like to call themselves "chiropractic neurologists" sometimes) and primary care, as no NPs I know of yet have the hubris to call themselves an -ologist or surgeon.
 
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In terms of actual practice once the patient is already in the door I don't think it is as much of an issue so long as the doctor is a good one.

I guess my question is more about a patient is new to the area isn't feeling well and is looking for a family practice doctor:

They see Dr. X, MD family practice who went the Caribbean (though they have no idea about the Caribbean part and probably don't care). Dr. Y DO family practice. Dr. Z DNP family practice. Right now they know Dr. X has reached a certain competency for training. They likely don't know what Dr Y and Dr Z is. Even though Dr. Y likely received as good or better training as Dr X. 30 years ago if you were Dr anybody Family Practice patients probably knew what that meant and that you achieved a certain minimum competency. I think now they may not, and it will become more and more of an issue in the future.

I guess I'm wondering how much of an issue this is in the real world when the patient is deciding who to go see. This isn't an issue for surgeons and likely won't be for 20+ years
 
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Likely not as much of an issue in non-primary care specialties, but I agree that pts/non medical people will get confused with the increased number of DO graduates, the increased NPs pushing for autonomy, and whoever else decides they want to be called "doctor" that day.

I plan on introducing myself as "Dr CrocodilePancake, your (specialty)-ist"

In terms of actual practice once the patient is already in the door I don't think it is as much of an issue so long as the doctor is a good one.

I guess my question is more about a patient is new to the area isn't feeling well and is looking for a family practice doctor:

They see Dr. X, MD family practice who went the Caribbean (though they have no idea about the Caribbean part and probably don't care). Dr. Y DO family practice. Dr. Z DNP family practice. Right now they know Dr. X has reached a certain competency for training. They likely don't know what Dr Y and Dr Z is. Even though Dr. Y likely received as good or better training as Dr X. 30 years ago if you were Dr anybody Family Practice patients probably knew what that meant and that you achieved a certain minimum competency. I think now they may not, and it will become more and more of an issue in the future.

I guess I'm wondering how much of an issue this is in the real world when the patient is deciding who to go see. This isn't an issue for surgeons and likely won't be for 20+ years
 
Coming from someone who hasn't started medical school just yet, I would assume it depends a lot on location. I'm from whats considered one of the most "DO friendly" states and, to me, there has never been a difference between MD and DO, even when I had no clue what either of them actually meant. It was only after I got interested in medicine that I actually discovered my family physician was a DO. In regards to you're first post, if I was part of the general public and had no clue about MD/DO/DNP/etc and was at a hospital/clinic and someone introduced themselves as Dr. X,Y or Z, I would assume they were a physician and went to medical school unless otherwise noted.
 
Maybe it depends on the state or specific hospital/practice, but typically DNP/PharmD/DPT are not referred to as "Dr." unless they are in an academic setting or their own practice (in which case I guess they can call themselves whatever they want). A DNP giving a lecture can be called "Dr", but they moment he/she steps in a hospital or private practice they are and should be referred to as Mr/Ms.

Most hospitals and private practices reserve the term "Dr" for physicians.
 
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i do not think the public has the slightest clue about the infrastructure or general hierarchy of medical education. i do not think they care. why should they?

i share your concern in that mid-level bottom feeders are terrible on all accounts. part of me says we should just watch them dig their own graves with their incompetency. part of me thinks something should be done before these nurses with online "doctorate" degrees invest more money into their lobbying.
 
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So, I was in a medical office building the other day.

Dr. Blah Blah, acupuncture physician
Dr. blah blah, chiropractic physician
I assume most DNPs and whoever else introduce themselves as doctor.

I had a procedure done while ago and the CRNA introduced himself as "Doctor _____". I wanted to ask him if his first name was doctor but then I decided I didn't want to wake up in the middle of the procedure so just looked at him funny.

How do DOs who wish to work in private practice outside a hospital differentiate themselves from all the other doctors? What % of the public will know that Dr. William, DO Family practice (or whatever specialty) completed residency and has equivalent or better training than a significant amount of MDs and Dr. William, DNP Family Practice (or whatever specialty) does not or does it even matter regarding who patients choose to see? and the MD, DO, and DNP will all be basically competing equally in patients eyes and the vast majority of it will come down to marketing, networking, and patient satisfaction?

I don't want to scare anyone or add any fuel to the fire. It does seem like questions that need to be addressed though.

I'm a DO student, but I laughed at this. I'm curious as to why you think our training may be better than the MDs? Please don't say omm.

As far as the topic at hand, everyone wants to be a doctor, but not everyone wants to put in the work to get into and through medical school. There isn't a lot you can do about it aside from roll your eyes.
 
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I personally feel no one outside of medicine recognizes the DO degree. At least in my experience.
 
DOs prob have better training than most foreign trained MDs [~1/3rd of doctors who match] . I would guess the training is better than the US MD schools designed to serve underserved in certain community hospitals and the Puerto Rican schools that take MCAT scores of 18-25. In some DO schools it is probably equivalant or maybe slightly better than some other MD schools too. Training isin't necessarily better or worse for a certain career often times as well. I'd rather my family practice physician be an expert at common conditions and always have my best interest in mind than know how to perform a liver transplant.
 
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Take a look at how many non-medical companies have MD in their title. There are cell phone repair shops, there are carpet cleaning business, there are environmental clean up companies, there are computer repair shops, basically any time a business wants to tell the public they "fix or repair things" they use MD in the title.

In the "consumer medical" realm there is WebMD, there are urgent cares that use MD in the title, all to designate "authority/specialized expertise".

The AOA has had 100+ years to make their claim and they have failed miserably.

When such a minimal level (maybe a couple hundred hours) of our curriculum is distinct from that of our allopathic and foreign trained colleagues, to me at least, it seems that the DO is more of a historical designation.

There was a court case in NY where some DO's tried to sue to use the title MD under the procedures that allowed their foreign trained colleagues to use MD in lieu of MBBS, Mb BCh, etc. The court ruled against the DO's saying that the DO is needed to inform the public that they have received additional skills in osteopathic manipulative medicine.
 
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So, I was in a medical office building the other day.

Dr. Blah Blah, acupuncture physician
Dr. blah blah, chiropractic physician
I assume most DNPs and whoever else introduce themselves as doctor.

I had a procedure done while ago and the CRNA introduced himself as "Doctor _____". I wanted to ask him if his first name was doctor but then I decided I didn't want to wake up in the middle of the procedure so just looked at him funny.

How do DOs who wish to work in private practice outside a hospital differentiate themselves from all the other doctors? What % of the public will know that Dr. William, DO Family practice (or whatever specialty) completed residency and has equivalent or better training than a significant amount of MDs and Dr. William, DNP Family Practice (or whatever specialty) does not or does it even matter regarding who patients choose to see? and the MD, DO, and DNP will all be basically competing equally in patients eyes and the vast majority of it will come down to marketing, networking, and patient satisfaction?

I don't want to scare anyone or add any fuel to the fire. It does seem like questions that need to be addressed though.


LOL. :heckyeah:

To answer your question on how people will know...it's called reading. Yes. I get that some folks are completely clueless about such things; but IDK. If I were going to be treated by someone, I sure want to know what that person is and how he or she is qualified to treat me or my family member. That's why there are all these websites now that are supposed to tell you where the physician schooled, graduated, did residency/fellowship, if s/he is board certified, and how many years s/he has been in practice. I mean, people spend a lot of time researching the car they are going to buy. Why in the world would they not research the person that is going to treat them medically speaking?

Anyway, I have plenty of experience with docs from all areas, DOs and MDs.
True probably more MDs than DOs, but I've learned what's important.

Personally, I think more physicians should write books on what a patient should know in selecting a primary care physician, specialists, a surgeon, etc. After than you have to talk with people that have had them care for them, or people that have worked with them. After that, you have to schedule an appointment with them and know how to test the waters with them.
Smart patients are interviewing their docs with every, single experience--from check-ups to more serious stuff.

Not too too long ago, I switched from the MD-FP person in the practice to the DO-FP person in the practice. Not only did the DO have more experience and was more on the ball--seriously, he had much better relational skills. This does matter somewhat when you are talking about a primary care provider in particular. You will be interacting with him or her perhaps for a good chunk of your life or over a lifetime, so. . .

About the DNP issue, I think perhaps only for areas where there are fewer physicians, this might be an issue.

Listen, you can't take primary care for granted anymore. A good percentage of the people that come in have multi-complex issues--comorbidities that require the attention of someone FULLY medically educated and trained. Sending these folks to the DNPs in my view is asking for trouble. My mom has had some serious comorbid issues, and generally I won't let a DNP touch her even for routine exam. Heck, she's had some tough rides, and I am reticent about having some DOs or MDs touch her. (There are serious proving ground/trust issues with many patients--so really, no physician ever really stops interviewing--b/c smart patients want to check you out before committing to whether they will stay with you or not.) In the past, she had coded twice--at a relatively young age--64. Lost my dad at 64 from leukemia--otherwise he was health as horse--worked with harsh chemicals over a long time. I've also had numerous serious issues with my MIL, and being a critical care RN for many, many years, I know complex patients when I see them. Nope. You want physicians that have had the best medical training, are bright, committed, and really give a damn about what they are doing. So many patients are just too complex to be treated by NP or PA. Sorry.
 
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My whole point is if most people don't know what a DO is....does it matter for going into business as a DO? and will it matter more in the future as more and more care providers market themselves as doctor and can practice independantly? If so, what can be done about it? To me it is either A. Find a way to assimilate with MDs in patients eyes or B. Have national advertising promoting DOs as good docs with a strong standard of training.

There is a chance it doesn't even matter and this is what I meant to ask in the thread. I don't think it is a good thing for D.O.s going forward to have patients choosing between an MD and a sea of doctors with degrees such as DOs, DNPs, or whatever other degrees exist in the future that they don't recognize. If DOs training and knowledge is more rigorous than DNPs the public should know that, other wise it is (to what degree I'm not sure) a disservice to DOs who will compete with them on what the public sees as a level playing field. It is too difficult for a lot of patients to know if they are getting good quality care from a knowledgeable doctor or not. Most people in medical school (and especially SDN) deeply, deeply analyze life choices. Your average medicaid patient is not looking up the entire medical training process for various degrees and the quality of school and residency (or lack therof) they trained in.

There is a chance I'm completely off here and most people don't just find a doctor online, if referrals and word of mouth are 90% of it, or if most people don't care whether their primary care has 8 years or 3 years of training, then DOs aren't losing that much. I'm honestly not sure in this regard.
 
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From what I remember hearing, most introductions follow as "I am Dr. Blah Blah, your attending physician"

Yeah, that never happens. There is no such thing as attending physician in private practice, which is what the OP is asking about. Those terms are used only in academic settings.
 
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Whenever asking a question such as yours, though it may be well thought out, well intentioned and based on logical practicalities, when asked on this site such a question will inevitable elicit a fair share of reflexive defensive responses. Don't be too taken aback by that. So many of us DOs are so conditioned to knee jerk defenses of our degree and the DO title it becomes hard - wired.

In answer to your question from a physician currently in private practice, yes, the letters do matter. As much as SDN students and residents will angrily dispute this, it does matter. I have an MD colleague who was trained in the Caribbean who started in the same practice one year after me. It was amazing to see the difference in response level he got in advertising his availability in the region though we are in the same group and his advertisement was very simple and quite similar to mine advertised with the letters DO.

I have also had some patients come in who suddenly refused to continue seeing me after realizing I was a DO. Others who have no idea what a DO is and ask if I'm a doctor and others who talk with me about how they like holistic healing so they are "OK with seeing me".
I am able to operate a practice however so don't go jumping off any cliffs, it just takes some extra effort.

As far as finding a way to assimilate with MDs in patient's eyes, I think this is the most logical way to go as we are more similar to an MD than to any other medical practitioner. We go through the same residency training and practice indistinguishably.

There may be a day when this is put to rest and DOs are offered the chance to change the title to MD. I have no doubt that if this choice were elective and given today in most or all states it would be the "elective death" of the DO title.

That said, for many many technical and legal reasons, this will most likely not happen within the next decade or two. This is why I firmly believe that pursuing the next best option - changing the degree designation to MDO is our best route for public widespread recognition as medical doctors until such time perhaps in 20 years that the degrees are finally consolidated.

I think that not only would this hold benefit in areas such as private practice, book publishing and research but it is a logical step in the progression to eventual degree consolidation.
 
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Hello my name is Dr. TP I'm the bone wizard who will be taking care of your holistic needs today
 
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I know that a few years ago the AOA passed a resolution re-affirming the DO designation. Does anyone know if any polling was done to ascertain the views of practicing DO's, not just those in voting positions in the AOA?
 
Whenever asking a question such as yours, though it may be well thought out, well intentioned and based on logical practicalities, when asked on this site such a question will inevitable elicit a fair share of reflexive defensive responses. Don't be too taken aback by that. So many of us DOs are so conditioned to knee jerk defenses of our degree and the DO title it becomes hard - wired.

In answer to your question from a physician currently in private practice, yes, the letters do matter. As much as SDN students and residents will angrily dispute this, it does matter. I have an MD colleague who was trained in the Caribbean who started in the same practice one year after me. It was amazing to see the difference in response level he got in advertising his availability in the region though we are in the same group and his advertisement was very simple and quite similar to mine advertised with the letters DO.

I have also had some patients come in who suddenly refused to continue seeing me after realizing I was a DO. Others who have no idea what a DO is and ask if I'm a doctor and others who talk with me about how they like holistic healing so they are "OK with seeing me".
I am able to operate a practice however so don't go jumping off any cliffs, it just takes some extra effort.

As far as finding a way to assimilate with MDs in patient's eyes, I think this is the most logical way to go as we are more similar to an MD than to any other medical practitioner. We go through the same residency training and practice indistinguishably.

There may be a day when this is put to rest and DOs are offered the chance to change the title to MD. I have no doubt that if this choice were elective and given today in most or all states it would be the "elective death" of the DO title.

That said, for many many technical and legal reasons, this will most likely not happen within the next decade or two. This is why I firmly believe that pursuing the next best option - changing the degree designation to MDO is our best route for public widespread recognition as medical doctors until such time perhaps in 20 years that the degrees are finally consolidated.

I think that not only would this hold benefit in areas such as private practice, book publishing and research but it is a logical step in the progression to eventual degree consolidation.

You had me until MDO.

Honestly the next best thing and first logical step in the right direction is to drop the bullsith from our curriculum and licensing exams (cranial, chapman's etc) so that websites like Wikipedia don't amount our required OMM training to pseudoscience. You know what link is getting clicked when the public googles Osteopathic Medicine or Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine... ya, it won't be the AOA website...probably gonna be Wikipedia. And the Wikipedia article on DOs mentions our extra training in pseudoscience right in the introductory paragraph and multiple times again in a section entitled "distinctiveness". Also, wouldn't be a bad idea to drop this "whole body/holistic approach" thing too--sounds a bit alt med to the lay person...but i digress. In this scenario, we still have something extra to offer if one so chooses in our OMM training even when the BS is gone, and to appease the AOA powers that be, we still remain "separate but equal" with our DO degree.

Once we accomplish this long overdue, huge leap forward for the profession- we can proceed to properly educate the public. The public is very impressionable...this could work for us or against us (as it currently does). No wonder you have patients who are "ok seeing you" mentioning holistic medicine.
 
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As frustrating as that is to see, it is nothing new. re: Forbes "Doctors vs Osteopaths" 2010

This underscores the lengths that the AOA has yet to overcome in their 100+ years to tell their story and build their brand.

If this nonsense is going to continue, then there needs to be some serious discussions about the future for DO's in America.
 
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Usually a doctor introduces themselves by specialty, when appropriate. "I am Dr. MJ, and I'll be the anesthesiologist/dermatologist/surgeon/cardiologist/etc overseeing your case during your admission." For now, that distinction is clear for pretty much all specialties but neurology (chiropractors like to call themselves "chiropractic neurologists" sometimes) and primary care, as no NPs I know of yet have the hubris to call themselves an -ologist or surgeon.
Is this for real? As someone who may very well go into neurology, this almost makes my blood boil.

I know that a few years ago the AOA passed a resolution re-affirming the DO designation. Does anyone know if any polling was done to ascertain the views of practicing DO's, not just those in voting positions in the AOA?
From what I know of the higher-ups in the AOA... it's a bunch of old guys who think very differently than the mass of young physicians and medical students quickly filling the ranks of the Osteopathic profession. This view was pretty much affirmed by our dean at a conference just last week. However, they know that we, as a different generation of future physicians, think differently than them. I would bet that change will pick up speed in the not too distant future.
You had me until MDO.

Honestly the next best thing and first logical step in the right direction is to drop the bullsith from our curriculum and licensing exams (cranial, chapman's etc) so that websites like Wikipedia don't amount our required OMM training to pseudoscience. You know what link is getting clicked when the public googles Osteopathic Medicine or Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine... ya, it won't be the AOA website...probably gonna be Wikipedia. And the Wikipedia article on DOs mentions our extra training in pseudoscience right in the introductory paragraph and multiple times again in a section entitled "distinctiveness". Also, wouldn't be a bad idea to drop this "whole body/holistic approach" thing too--sounds a bit alt med to the lay person...but i digress. In this scenario, we still have something extra to offer if one so chooses in our OMM training even when the BS is gone, and to appease the AOA powers that be, we still remain "separate but equal" with our DO degree.

Once we accomplish this long overdue, huge leap forward for the profession- we can proceed to properly educate the public. The public is very impressionable...this could work for us or against us (as it currently does). No wonder you have patients who are "ok seeing you" mentioning holistic medicine.
Yeah, the way that Chapman's points and cranial are basically stated as fact in our curriculum is maddening. Hey, I'd be okay if they taught them in the way that phrenology is taught in neuroscience. Teach them as historical ideas -- fine. But to teach these things as fact without any sort of evidence behind them drives me nuts. Oh yeah? My colon is somatically represented in my leg? Tell me more...

Though my posts here may sound grumpy, I'm actually very optimistic for the future of our profession and thoroughly enjoy my training. I just think there are definitely some ways that the AOA and schools can better manage our future and current training.
 
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Is this for real? As someone who may very well go into neurology, this almost makes my blood boil.


From what I know of the higher-ups in the AOA... it's a bunch of old guys who think very differently than the mass of young physicians and medical students quickly filling the ranks of the Osteopathic profession. This view was pretty much affirmed by our dean at a conference just last week. However, they know that we, as a different generation of future physicians, think differently than them. I would bet that change will pick up speed in the not too distant future.

Yeah, the way that Chapman's points and cranial are basically stated as fact in our curriculum is maddening. Hey, I'd be okay if they taught them in the way that phrenology is taught in neuroscience. Teach them as historical ideas -- fine. But to teach these things as fact without any sort of evidence behind them drives me nuts. Oh yeah? My colon is somatically represented in my leg? Tell me more...

Though my posts here may sound grumpy, I'm actually very optimistic for the future of our profession and thoroughly enjoy my training. I just think there are definitely some ways that the AOA and schools can better manage our future and current training.
The paste function on my phone doesn't work, but just Google "chiropractic neurology" and be ready to rage.
 
there is also chiropractic radiology:
https://www.accr.org
threw-up-in-my-mouth.jpg
 
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ya ya ya. I was making a point that this type of internet wide crap is nothing new and has been going on for some time. Anyhow, what was your point? Salzberg tossed out a backhanded apology...and?

I was just trying to continue your point; even the "apology" was pompous and had pejorative undertones :( Didn't mean to confuse.
 
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If you wanted to be an MD, you should have chosen to attend a school which awards the MD. If you chose to become a DO then you are not an MD and you likely never will be because you did not earn an MD degree. Get used to it.
Some of us want to be DOs.
If you want more people to know what a DO is, then educate them.
 
If you wanted to be an MD, you should have chosen to attend a school which awards the MD. If you chose to become a DO then you are not an MD and you likely never will be because you did not earn an MD degree. Get used to it.
Some of us want to be DOs.
If you want more people to know what a DO is, then educate them.
I totally agree with you. My point at least is that it is hard to accurately educate people when everything else available to them about the DO degree is misleading or inaccurate. We could really make leaps and bounds for all of us that did want to be DOs by modernizing what we are taught a bit and making our image one that is more akin to who the majority of us DOs actually are.
 
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If you wanted to be an MD, you should have chosen to attend a school which awards the MD. If you chose to become a DO then you are not an MD and you likely never will be because you did not earn an MD degree. Get used to it.
Some of us want to be DOs.
If you want more people to know what a DO is, then educate them.

I believe that most of us did not enroll for medical school for the way our medical degrees sounded or for those two letters. I believe that most of us enrolled in medical school to be physicians.

If they told me I’d be a physician I probably would have still gone if the degree designation was GOFBD for “Good Old Fashioned Bone Doctor” . If they told me "well the letters don’t actually matter, heh heh, we’re not really Good Old Fashioned Bone Doctors anymore, we just keep that name because people get pissed off and say you lack pride if you don’t so… we kept it.

But in reality you can enter any specialty and practice medicine indistinguishable from any other hospital or private practice physician. And you can stay in the region of the country you want to near all of your family," I probably still would have done it. I would have done it to become a physician. Does that mean Im going to like the name?… no.

Does it mean I still might prefer and potentially even work toward a more accurate designation, that could potentially aid in our public view as medical doctors?, yes.
 
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I wonder how maby times a day Jim Shortz, D.O. speaks to a patient, and the patient says "But Doctor Sassypants just said x, y and z". How does Dr. Shortz go about informing HIS patient whose care he is responsible for, that 'ole Franny Sassypants is a nurse with a Ph.D or a DNP? Seems to me that in everyone's rush to get things done informing the patient of the distinction is qualifucation and level of responsibility quickly falls by the wayside.
 
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^trev. DNPs aren't all idiots and MD/DOs aren't all amazing care providers. People make make mistakes, my intention of this thread was not to turn it into the 1000th degree war on SDN. I don't think I would ever tell my patient "this person is a DNP so their advice is garbage" because most of the time DNPs advice is going to be just fine and making people in your field hate you is generally bad for business. I'd address the mistake and try to rectify it and hopefully the results would do the talking. My thread is purely about DOs going into practice for themselves and the business implications of the degree in our current healthcare climate and going forward. Also questioning if there is an issue if there is a good way to fix it and what that would be.
 
^trev. DNPs aren't all idiots and MD/DOs aren't all amazing care providers. People make make mistakes, my intention of this thread was not to turn it into the 1000th degree war on SDN. I don't think I would ever tell my patient "this person is a DNP so their advice is garbage" because most of the time DNPs advice is going to be just fine making people in your field hate you is generally bad for business. I'd address the mistake and try to rectify it. My thread is purely about DOs going into practice for themselves and the business implications of the degree in our current healthcare climate and going forward and question what the best course of action would be.

Never said anything about anyone being an idiot or better-than or anything like that. My concern is more about the chain of responsibility for patient care, how well informed the public is about that hierarchy and each healthcare provider's responsibility to ensure that patients understand the scope of practice of each individual they come in contact with.
 
For example, I went for an annual physical a few years ago and it took the PA quite a while to identify herself as such. She didn't know I knew as much as I do and apparently assumed I was either too dumb to know the difference or didn't care who I saw. Further, the office didn't see fit to inform me when I made the appointment that I'd be seeing a PA instead of the physician I had expected.

These are the little insults and unannounced oh-by-the-ways that cause the growing concern over the relatively sudden bloom in these new alphabet-soup mid-level providers.
 
I see, to answer your question then, personally and maybe this will change in the upcoming years, if someone is seeing both me and a DNP and the DNP gave poor advice I'm not sure I'd ever blame it on their training to the patient unless maybe it was a really egregious error. If the provider was my employee, I'd be sure they identify themselves properly I suppose.
 
I see, to answer your question then, personally, and maybe this will change in the upcoming years if someone is seeing both me and a DNP and the DNP gave poor advice I'm not sure I'd ever blame it on their training to the patient unless maybe it was a really egregious error. If the provider was my employee, I'd be sure they identify themselves properly I suppose.
In your practice that's definitely the right choice, and a more controlled environment to ensure that your SOP for communicating with your patients is carried out.
 
I totally agree with you. My point at least is that it is hard to accurately educate people when everything else available to them about the DO degree is misleading or inaccurate. We could really make leaps and bounds for all of us that did want to be DOs by modernizing what we are taught a bit and making our image one that is more akin to who the majority of us DOs actually are.

A primary example of this problem is when you read things online saying that DO schools are more focused on primary care. People are going to interpret that as "DOs are ok as PCPs, but not as subspecialists." The only people we will have to blame are the higher ups who try to emphasize primary care as a means of separating us from MDs. And I say this as someone who is quite interested in primary care. If I go in to FM though, it will be because that's what I want to do, not because I'm a DO and my medical school is somehow better suited for that.
 
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It's not just the primary care thing, either. People see "holistic" in our own promotional literature and they'll think, "oh, DOs are like MDs but more skeptical of science." Or "DOs are halfway between a doctor and a homeopath."
 
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A primary example of this problem is when you read things online saying that DO schools are more focused on primary care. People are going to interpret that as "DOs are ok as PCPs, but not as subspecialists." The only people we will have to blame are the higher ups who try to emphasize primary care as a means of separating us from MDs. And I say this as someone who is quite interested in primary care. If I go in to FM though, it will be because that's what I want to do, not because I'm a DO and my medical school is somehow better suited for that.
It's not just the primary care thing, either. People see "holistic" in our own promotional literature and they'll think, "oh, DOs are like MDs but more skeptical of science." Or "DOs are halfway between a doctor and a homeopath."

Exactamundo. As I was saying, these types of things change and I can basically guarantee things will start to change for DOs. Oh sweet, all residencies are ACGME...cool. Maybe we will have a unified match one day soon too...awesome--dude no lay person even knows or cares what all that means. They do however know what "primary care focus" and "extra training that is criticized as pseudoscience" and "holistic medicine" means when they use google to find out if DOs are real medical doctors though.
 
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It's not just the primary care thing, either. People see "holistic" in our own promotional literature and they'll think, "oh, DOs are like MDs but more skeptical of science." Or "DOs are halfway between a doctor and a homeopath."
That's the catch-22. Does the average person even grasp what "holistic" means in a given context? Assuming ignorance or indifference whether it's present or not in the individual patient is the proverbial slippery slope. Is that the expectation now?
 
That's the catch-22. Does the average person even grasp what "holistic" means in a given context? Assuming ignorance or indifference whether it's present or not in the individual patient is the proverbial slippery slope. Is that the expectation now?
The lay person sees "holistic" and immediately equates it to alt med. I can guarantee this with the same assuredness that my OMM faculty guarantees the effectivness of cranial osteopathy. We know holistic actually means looking at the whole...all encompassing...etc. Your average person does not.
 
We need more DO's in influential academic positions, turning out good high quality literature, chairing national committees, and for the AOA to do as good a job publicizing the DO who works in a lab at the NIH as they do touting the DO who provides care in rural Appalachia. Both are important, but the AOA seems hell-bent on only publicizing one of those much to the detriment of the "whole" brand (pardon the pun).
 
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We need more DO's in influential academic positions, turning out good high quality literature, chairing national committees, and for the AOA to do as good a job publicizing the DO who works in a lab at the NIH as they do touting the DO who provides care in rural Appalachia. Both are important, but the AOA seems hell-bent on only publicizing one of those much to the detriment of the "whole" brand (pardon the pun).
:clap::bow::clap::bow:
 
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