Recommend volunteering at Vet Clinic?

[FLVettrain]

To the first part, we don't always get what we want. If you want veterinary experience, often times it is necessary to start in the kennels and work your way up. I did it. Many others have. It isn't a big deal and if vet med is something you really want, you'll take what experience you can get.

To the second part about the high school girl, that's the clinic that vets run away from and never look back. One assistant is not enough, especially a high school kid with very little to no experience. Hell no.

Okay but about how long in Kennel? 1 year, I don't really see how that experience helps with the other job. I'd like to not waste time and begin training.

The second part, that girl is actually very experienced now. It's an awesome clinic with not very high prices and two Veterinarians and another very experienced lab lady and receptionist. They have more personnel as another doctor when they are busy or not there maybe for simple procedures and I've seen two other ladies who seem to be learning or are Vet Techs/Assistants. The high school girl seems to have more of a full-time there. The others may be part-time. This however isn't the same clinic where I applied.

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[DVMDream]

Okay but about how long in Kennel? 1 year, I don't really see how that experience helps with the other job. I'd like to not waist time and begin training.

How long people do kennel work just depends. I did it for slightly less than a year and was then moved up to a veterinary assistant. You learn plenty of things working as a kennel in a veterinary clinic. You learn about how a veterinary hospital works, how it flows, how people talk with and communicate with each other. You may be asked to help restrain animals, so you can learn how to safely restrain animals. You hear drug names, learn when they are used. You learn some veterinary terminology. Most of what you learn is from observation and listening. It isn't a "waist" (or should I say waste) of time, if you know how to accept everything as an opportunity for advancement.

Again, if your end goal is veterinary school, you need to learn that you aren't going to always get to do what you want and you need to learn to accept what experience you can get. Accepting that kennel position can lead to many more open doors if you are patient and show the motivation to continue on. If you complain about having to work as "only a kennel" or don't see how that job can help you in your goals, you won't get far.

 

[FLVettrain]

How long people do kennel work just depends. I did it for slightly less than a year and was then moved up to a veterinary assistant. You learn plenty of things working as a kennel in a veterinary clinic. You learn about how a veterinary hospital works, how it flows, how people talk with and communicate with each other. You may be asked to help restrain animals, so you can learn how to safely restrain animals. You hear drug names, learn when they are used. You learn some veterinary terminology. Most of what you learn is from observation and listening. It isn't a "waist" (or should I say waste) of time, if you know how to accept everything as an opportunity for advancement.

Again, if your end goal is veterinary school, you need to learn that you aren't going to always get to do what you want and you need to learn to accept what experience you can get. Accepting that kennel position can lead to many more open doors if you are patient and show the motivation to continue on. If you complain about having to work as "only a kennel" or don't see how that job can help you in your goals, you won't get far.

I basically do all the Kennel work at home as responsibilities of owning pets and enjoy it. Bathing, cleaning, administering medication, etc. I go to the Veterinarian and observe while I'm there but the receptionist duties have barely anything to do with Tech work if they are not with the doctor observing as well. From the front desk greeting, invoicing, and taking phone calls that isn't very helpful towards Vet Tech experience. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those jobs, it helps enter the field but not supply the necessary skills. Depends on the Veterinarians and the duties given and what they demonstrate.

Seems my Macbook keyboards are giving me issue typing. I've corrected some typos before posting, it has a keyboard cover.

 

[DVMDream]

I basically do all the Kennel work at home as responsibilities of owning pets and enjoy it. Bathing, cleaning, administering medication, etc.

No, no you do not do the work of a kennel at home taking care of your pets. This is where you are naive, you don't even know the responsibilities and duties of a kennel in a veterinary clinic. Perhaps you should learn what they are before deciding you don't want to do something.

From the front desk greeting, invoicing, and taking phone calls that isn't very helpful towards Vet Tech experience. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those jobs, it helps enter the field but not supply the necessary skills.

What is your goal? To become a veterinarian or a vet tech?

Regardless of that answer, if you want to gain the skills of a vet tech, sometimes you HAVE to start off doing other things. You can't just jump into a job that requires technical experience and go. People have to train you to do the job and many employers don't want to invest in training a person unless they know they will fit in and be a good worker. They often determine if someone is worth training because they have already worked with them and have determined it is worth their time to train that person.

Also, being a receptionist gives you incredible skills that very much do relate to being a vet tech. Veterinary medicine is 95% communication and 5% medicine (rough percentages). The best way to learn good communication skills is by being a receptionist. You can learn all the medicine and technical skills you damn well want, but if you can't communicate it to your clients, no good will come from all that knowledge.

You have a lot to learn still. I recommend that you get some experience in some way whether it be via kennel job or just by asking to shadow a vet before you decide on what it is you actually want.

 

[Trilt]

I'll admit I've only skimmed the thread, but I'll say that there is more than one way to get experience. I never had a paid veterinary job until after I was accepted to vet school - I worked jobs outside of veterinary medicine that paid better/had better benefits and just shadowed for my necessary experience. So I kind of skipped the kennel tech -> assistant -> "tech" ladder, but don't feel like I'm less of a vet because of it.

I did lots of cleaning as a shadow (I was in small clinics where everyone pitched in to do everything) but I also got to spend a lot of time working directly with the techs/vets and asking one on one questions, which I think is really valuable. You often get better tech skills and client communication chances as paid staff, but shadowing I think often gives you more flexible hours and the ability to really discuss things/watch the random surgeries/etc. So it's a toss up.

I guess moral of the story is that you just need to get into a vet clinic somehow and get your feet wet.

 

[DVMDream]

I guess moral of the story is that you just need to get into a vet clinic somehow and get your feet wet.

Exactly this. You can gain veterinary experience in a number of ways, including shadowing.

However, if you really, really, really want to gain tech skills, OP, you may have to just bite your tongue and deal with working as a kennel for a little bit. It has benefits and will get your foot in the door in order for you to have the opportunity to gain that experience.

 

[FLVettrain]

In other words if you were in my shoes what would you tell the Veterinarian?
If you were the Veterinarian what can the candidate say to consider hiring them?

For the advertised Vet Technician "willing to train" position. I have volunteering experience at non-profit and communications skills of years of work experience in another field, yet they still ask me about volunteering.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

In other words if you were in my shoes what would you tell the Veterinarian?
If you were the Veterinarian what can the candidate say to consider hiring them?

For the advertised Vet Technician "willing to train" position. I have volunteering experience at non-profit and communications skills of years of work experience in another field, yet they still ask me about volunteering.

I'm going to say this again. You have no veterinary experience. Something unique about vet med is that volunteering/shadowing in clinics is extremely common. It's often the only way some people can get experience before they can be considered for a paid job. Clinics know this. You cannot function as a tech on your first day, it's impossible. I'm willing to bet that the clinics were hoping to get an application from someone with more experience (vet assistant, receptionist) that could at least have some responsibility right away. You aren't even aware how valuable reception experience is, OP. You probably should start out volunteering or in the kennel/front desk.

At some point you're going to need to sit down and think about your situation and come up with the answers to every question you keep asking. We cannot hold your hand through this.

If I were this veterinarian, I would have told you to keep looking for jobs a long time ago. You were offered a volunteering gig to start with, but are insisting on being a paid tech even though you'd have no clue what you're doing for quite some time. To me, that's an employee I don't want to deal with. Common sense says you can't just go from zero to tech in a matter of days. They'd be seriously investing time and resources into training you, and that's a lot for a clinic to do.

It's time you make a decision. Move on or accept the volunteering gig because it's all you can get so far.

 

[FLVettrain]

I'm going to say this again. You have no veterinary experience. Something unique about vet med is that volunteering/shadowing in clinics is extremely common. It's often the only way some people can get experience before they can be considered for a paid job. Clinics know this. You cannot function as a tech on your first day, it's impossible. I'm willing to bet that the clinics were hoping to get an application from someone with more experience (vet assistant, receptionist) that could at least have some responsibility right away. You aren't even aware how valuable reception experience is, OP. You probably should start out volunteering or in the kennel/front desk.

At some point you're going to need to sit down and think about your situation and come up with the answers to every question you keep asking. We cannot hold your hand through this.

If I were this veterinarian, I would have told you to keep looking for jobs a long time ago. You were offered a volunteering gig to start with, but are insisting on being a paid tech even though you'd have no clue what you're doing for quite some time. To me, that's an employee I don't want to deal with. Common sense says you can't just go from zero to tech in a matter of days. They'd be seriously investing time and resources into training you, and that's a lot for a clinic to do.

It's time you make a decision. Move on or accept the volunteering gig because it's all you can get so far.

Volunteer gigs are illegal according to the law in my state unless it's non-profit. I do think every job is valuable.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Volunteer gigs are illegal according to the law in my state unless it's non-profit. I do think every job is valuable.

Then move on. It's as simple as that. It doesn't seem like you're going to be able to get a paycheck at this clinic unless you offer your time for free first.

 

[Lab Vet]

You probably should start out volunteering or in the kennel/front desk.

This. Guess what, OP? I'm about to start my third year of veterinary school. Last summer, I drove 90 miles ONE WAY (that's 3 hours per day) to volunteer for a position 5 days a week. Was it worth it? Yup. Sure was. I learned a ton, and got a stellar recommendation for my paid fellowship this summer.

You need to pay your dues.

If you want to be a veterinarian, working for free is something you're going to need to come to terms with, particularly in your formative years. I had a career as a scientist prior to attending veterinary school- I know exactly what my skill set is worth on the open market. That doesn't, however, make me a clinician. Volunteering in this field is expected. If I had a completely green pre-vet student walking into my practice demanding to be paid, I'd offer them the option to volunteer/shadow (If I could reasonably accommodate them). If that arrangement wasn't to their liking (i.e. they wanted to be paid for a position they were unqualified for), I'd send them packing.

When I was in graduate school, I had many student assistants work on my projects. These folks were all unpaid, and started off on the very bottom rung. Some complained. They didn't last very long. Let that be a warning to you. It is not in your best interest to demand remuneration for which you're unqualified. You should be grateful for the experience, sans pay.

Oh...and when you get to vet school, there will be more volunteering, and travel for which you're uncompensated. It's to be expected. Get ready for it.

 

[Lab Vet]

the receptionist duties have barely anything to do with Tech work if they are not with the doctor observing as well. From the front desk greeting, invoicing, and taking phone calls that isn't very helpful towards Vet Tech experience. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those jobs, it helps enter the field but not supply the necessary skills.

Wrong. Much of your success as a veterinarian (regardless of specialty) hinges on your ability to successfully communicate with clients. You can be the greatest phlebotomist on Earth- if you can't communicate with people, you'll have a very short career. Those invoicing skills- they'll come in handy when you're a practice owner. This comment screams short-sightedness, and naivete. Worry less about your job title, OP, and more about the importance of what you're learning in ANY position you're in.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Volunteer gigs are illegal according to the law in my state unless it's non-profit. I do think every job is valuable.

I also want to comment on this part....like I said earlier, volunteering may very well skirt the lines of legality, but when people do it willingly, you can't exactly report it as illegal or wage theft. There's a difference between a volunteer agreement and someone telling you they want you to work a few weeks for free before they decide if you're worth a paycheck or not.

If you don't want to volunteer, don't.

 

[FLVettrain]

Agreed. And even then, OP, you should realize that some people are never able to find paid veterinary experience. I'm one of them; I've got over 2000 hours of experience -- all of which was volunteer/shadowing work on the side while I worked other jobs and did full-time school.

If you want the experience badly enough, you will get it. But you have to recognize that you may have to donate your time for free, at least at first, so that you can put your foot in the door. It sucks, but that's just how it works in many places. If you have no prior experience or credentials (LVT/RVT/CVT), then a clinic is going to be unlikely to hire you as a tech or waste their time training you as one until they know your work ethic. I agree with a previous poster that the clinic probably put out the job ad looking for someone with at least some actual vet experience. You really can't just jump into a vet tech job on day one; it's basically impossible, hence why prior experience matters, even if it's unpaid.

Vet med is very much a field where you start from the bottom of the totem pole and build yourself up. There are great skills that you can acquire from volunteering as a kennel tech or receptionist that will help you further along in your career. I'd accept the offer if I were you; but if you're not willing to volunteer for a bit so that the clinic staff can assess if you're worth pouring the money and training time into you, well... tough, I guess. Look somewhere else.

And, yeah, I'm in the Midwest, granted, but I've never known any techs that made anything approaching $15/hr. That's a high expectation for a tech salary, especially one without certification.

When I said $15 I want referring to a Vet Tech salary. I have low expectations for the tech salary.

 

[FLVettrain]

I need a salary too besides the experience as I have bills to pay. The job post said willing to train. I don't mind volunteering but Vet isn't saying for how long. I couldn't do it for more than a month free if it's full-time like the paid position described.

I would prefer to find another job that pays. Some of these responses are contradicting.

Either I tell them I'll accept pay and hope for the best. Offer minimum wage during training. Or accept a short volunteer position.

Vet is basically saying to volunteer to determine if I'm worth a paycheck. I think I'm worth a paycheck either way. Vet Tech position pays more than the others?

If yes, I could ask for minimum or wait to see if they offer this option.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I need a salary too besides the experience as I have bills to pay. The job post said willing to train. I don't mind volunteering but Vet isn't saying for how long. I couldn't do it for more than a month free if it's full-time like the paid position described.

I would prefer to find another job that pays. Some of these responses are contradicting.

Either I tell them I'll accept pay and hope for the best. Offer minimum wage during training. Or accept a short volunteer position.

Basically saying to volunteer to determine if I'm worth a paycheck. I think I'm worth a paycheck either way. Vet Tech position pays more than the others?

If yes, I could ask for minimum or wait to see if they offer this option.

The problem is that you are wanting pay for a job you are absolutely not qualified for. This is why the vet is offering you a volunteer position so you can work your way up. They may not have a need for an additional kennel worker, vet assistant, or receptionist. You can ask for minimum wage, but if the vet says no, then you need to either take the volunteer gig or move on. I can't say that enough.

I know many people who have multiple jobs to make ends meet. I know a tech who makes $13 an hour and has two other night/weekend jobs. Vet med is not a lucrative field, you cannot compare it to making $15 an hour elsewhere. If you want to be a vet, you need vet experience. Like others have said, people have gotten 1000s of unpaid hairs of experience. This isn't news.

You need to make your own decision, even if you're getting different responses on here. This is all based on our opinions/experience. We're not going to tell you what to do. You're an adult.

 

[FLVettrain]

The problem is that you are wanting pay for a job you are absolutely not qualified for. This is why the vet is offering you a volunteer position so you can work your way up. They may not have a need for an additional kennel worker, vet assistant, or receptionist. You can ask for minimum wage, but if the vet says no, then you need to either take the volunteer gig or move on. I can't say that enough.

I know many people who have multiple jobs to make ends meet. I know a tech who makes $13 an hour and has two other night/weekend jobs. Vet med is not a lucrative field, you cannot compare it to making $15 an hour elsewhere. If you want to be a vet, you need vet experience. Like others have said, people have gotten 1000s of unpaid hairs of experience. This isn't news.

You need to make your own decision, even if you're getting different responses on here. This is all based on our opinions/experience. We're not going to tell you what to do. You're an adult.

I don't think I want to take the Volunteer gig, at least not if it is full-time like the job position. I'd love the experience but full-time wouldn't be good for me. Really would like to work at that clinic but that VS. starting at a lower paid position sounds better or volunteering less not full-time.

I think everyone one is valuable and shouldn't be unpaid even if you are just learning. The system needs to be corrected unless your getting credits for college or something. That's my opinion but I understand it's tradition.

 

[Lab Vet]

I think everyone one is valuable and shouldn't be unpaid even if you are just learning. The system needs to be corrected unless your getting credits for college or something. That's my opinion but I understand it's tradition.

Salary = payment for services rendered. What skills are you bringing to this job that are worth anything to the employer? You don't collect payment for a role simply because you show up. You need to be contributing to the organization. You need to be productive (i.e. making money for the business). The organization doesn't exist simply to give you experience.

Accepting an unpaid position does two things:

1. Demonstrates humility on the part of the applicant to recognize that they don't have any tangible skills to bring to the table, and therefore shouldn't expect pay

2. Demonstrates enthusiasm and commitment to the employer that the applicant truly desires a career in-field.

Employees who are paid 'for training' are often transferring positions laterally (i.e. they have relevant skills, but need to be schooled on the specifics of that particular role).

Remember apprenticeships from the old days? Those novices weren't 'paid' in a financial sense, but they were guaranteed job security within field in exchange for hard work in the absence of a pay check. Volunteering in the veterinary profession works much the same way.

Need to pay bills? I did as well (they continue to be a part of my life), so did most of the people who post on this board. How do you manage to volunteer for nothing while covering your expenses? You work multiple jobs, some of which may not be related to animals at all. That is how it's done.

 

[DVMDream]

I don't think I want to take the Volunteer gig, at least not if it is full-time like the job position. I'd love the experience but full-time wouldn't be good for me. Really would like to work at that clinic but that VS. starting at a lower paid position sounds better or volunteering less not full-time.

I think everyone one is valuable and shouldn't be unpaid even if you are just learning. The system needs to be corrected unless your getting credits for college or something. That's my opinion but I understand it's tradition.

I have given you a rather good explanation of what to determine and then what to say.

If you need a job that pays then you need to tell this employer, "Thank you for the volunteering offer, however, at this time, I am in need of a paid position. If you have a position open for pay, I would be interested." Then they can decide if they want to take you on and pay you or not. If they decide that you don't have the experience needed for the position they are looking to fill, then that is what they decide. You also have the opportunity to ask them if they'd be willing to allow you to shadow when you have time since you need to find a paying position and should something open in the future, then you will both know each other better at that future time.

Beyond that, you need to discover some reality. You want experience in the veterinary field. I am still unsure if this is because you want to be a tech or a vet. If you want to be a vet, you can gain that experience a number of different ways. The ways in which the vast majority of people gain veterinary experience is either by: 1. Gaining an entry level job position in a veterinary clinic (kennel) 2. Shadowing a veterinarian (this is UNPAID). 3. Volunteering at animal shelters, veterinary clinics, etc. (this is UNPAID). So, you now have to decide if gaining experience is worth it to you knowing that you will either have to take a job that you "don't want" or will have to come in to observe/volunteer for free. You do NOT deserve to be paid just because you want to learn something. Heck, I can't tell you the number of shadows I have seen be kicked out because they are downright rude and inconsiderate and I'd rather throw money into the trash than to give it to them. The fact that someone would be willing to take you in and teach you something that YOU want to learn, is pay enough. It interrupts their day, slows them down and they are doing it out of the kindness and courtesy of their own heart. You don't get paid just because you want to learn something. If you want to learn it, you better be willing to show up when you have free time for free or better be willing to pay for it (college courses).

Not only that, but volunteering. Volunteering is something that is looked for on a veterinary school application. It doesn't matter if you volunteer with animals, kids, elderly, soup kitchen, whatever. It all looks good. Why? Because volunteering your time shows that you are involved with your community and that you are willing to give back. What benefit does it give you? It makes you feel good, allows you to meet new people, allows you to interact with the community around you, etc. So whether you decide to volunteer or not now, which I get, you need money, you should still consider volunteering at some point, somewhere. It is an important part of any professional application.

I think you really need to determine what you want to do. If you need a paying job, then find one. It doesn't have to be in vet med. If you want experience in vet med, then you find experience either through shadowing a vet, volunteering at a humane society or finding work at an entry level position. It doesn't matter which you choose, but that is how you will need to go about getting the experience it is that you want.

 

[DVMDream]

The second part, that girl is actually very experienced now. It's an awesome clinic with not very high prices and two Veterinarians and another very experienced lab lady and receptionist. They have more personnel as another doctor when they are busy or not there maybe for simple procedures and I've seen two other ladies who seem to be learning or are Vet Techs/Assistants. The high school girl seems to have more of a full-time there. The others may be part-time. This however isn't the same clinic where I applied.

Still screaming highly understaffed. There should be at least 2 techs per vet, if not 3 techs per vet. I can guarantee these vets are having to stop doing their jobs in order to help do the jobs of a tech. Granted, if it isn't a busy clinic that might not be a big deal, but at a busy clinic a doctor having to stop to help draw blood or set a catheter or whatever is the difference between getting exam notes done at a decent time or staying beyond their shift for another hour or two just to finish up exam notes.






(Note: I am not saying a clinic being understaffed is the only reason doctors could be staying late, but it definitely contributes to it and overall interrupts the flow of a clinic).

 

[dyachei]

You seem to have stuck to the fact that another poster has said it's illegal. It might be. But it's fairly unenforceable and it's a regular part of getting experience in the vet world.

Either suck it up or decline the position. Just don't expect it to be easy to find another position with 0 previous experience.

 

[Minnerbelle]

You seem to have stuck to the fact that another poster has said it's illegal. It might be. But it's fairly unenforceable and it's a regular part of getting experience in the vet world.

It is illegal and it is enforceable. Just because it happens all the time does not negate that. Training has to be paid. You either hire a relatively trained person if you don't want to pay to train someone with 0 experience. Or you suck it up and at least pay minimum wage for training. The law is pretty black and white about this. There is no gray zone. There is a very narrow exception for interns where specific criteria must be met, and a vast majority of these situations in vet hospitals would not. Just because someone gets experience out of it (and maybe they are even giddy about it) and they are okay with not being paid doesn't make it any more legal.

Whether people know about it, or care to report it, or are complicit to the whole situation is a whole nother story. We all complain about the ****ty pay/treatment of veterinary staff, but this is the attitude that allows it to happen. It's not okay. Clearly no one else agrees, but whatever, to each his own I guess.

Obviously we're only hearing it second hand from the OP, and it's hard to understand exactly what is going on. But if the employer truly asked him to spend an unspecified period of time to train for free, at which point he may or may not be eligible for hire, and he has proof of it, the labor board would be very interested. Of course, it doesn't make OP any more hirable.

Based on what the OP has stated, I wouldn't hire OP. He's just not very hirable, and doesn't seem to understand how vet hospitals work. But that doesn't give anyone the right to take advantage of that situation and try to get his labor for free. Even unskilled labor is worth minimum wage pay. This is not a charitable organization.

OP has choices to make. He can find a volunteer position at a nonprofit that is willing to train. Find a truly entry level position that is willing to train at whatever level (kennel, reception, assistant, whatever). Or be taken advantage of by a greedy for-profit hospital that wants illegal free labor.

Even with a NONPROFIT, where I was allowed to legally volunteer however many hours I wanted to, the second they hired me to do the same tech duties I did while volunteering, I was not allowed to volunteer at all in the vet services department. Outside my 40 hrs/wk, I was not allowed to clock out as an employee and clock in as a volunteer, no matter how much I wanted to. Because it would have been illegal for them not to pay me time and a half for that. Even with my consent.

At the three hospitals I've worked at, a shadower could come and go as they pleased (we make them tell us in advance when they'll be in, but we have no expectations for commitment). They don't do any tangible work. We still staff exactly the same as if they didn't exist. The hospital doesn't benefit from having the shadower there other than maybe some good company. If they seem like the right fit, and want them to come in at scheduled times to help out to whatever capacity they're able to while they train on actual tech duties, they get paid. This includes an awesome prevet who had no previous experience. Even our tech students who are getting the experience necessary to graduate get paid, because they fill shifts and provide us with work that we would otherwise be paying someone else for. Free labor was not a regular part of anyone getting experience at the hospitals I've worked at. This includes the horrible employer that stretched the requirements of exempt salaried employees (I.e. Associate vets) to likely illegal boundaries. Even that shady ass of an employer would not toe this line for this particular set of laws that have clear precedents (maybe not in vet med, but in many other fields). There are places that do things right...


http://www.forbes.com/sites/richard...unteers-and-interns-is-it-legal/#402b9bf52dcd

http://www.wagehourblog.com/2014/01/articles/off-the-clock/employee-training-paid-or-unpaid/

http://www.wardandsmith.com/articles/wage-hour-law-volunteers-interns



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[DVMDream]

It is illegal and it is enforceable. Just because it happens all the time does not negate that. Training has to be paid. You either hire a relatively trained person if you don't want to pay to train someone with 0 experience. Or you suck it up and at least pay minimum wage for training. The law is pretty black and white about this. There is no gray zone. There is a very narrow exception for interns where specific criteria must be met, and a vast majority of these situations in vet hospitals would not. Just because someone gets experience out of it (and maybe they are even giddy about it) and they are okay with not being paid doesn't make it any more legal.

Whether people know about it, or care to report it, or are complicit to the whole situation is a whole nother story. We all complain about the ****ty pay/treatment of veterinary staff, but this is the attitude that allows it to happen. It's not okay. Clearly no one else agrees, but whatever, to each his own I guess.

Obviously we're only hearing it second hand from the OP, and it's hard to understand exactly what is going on. But if the employer truly asked him to spend an unspecified period of time to train for free, at which point he may or may not be eligible for hire, and he has proof of it, the labor board would be very interested. Of course, it doesn't make OP any more hirable.

Based on what the OP has stated, I wouldn't hire OP. He's just not very hirable, and doesn't seem to understand how vet hospitals work. But that doesn't give anyone the right to take advantage of that situation and try to get his labor for free. Even unskilled labor is worth minimum wage pay. This is not a charitable organization.

OP has choices to make. He can find a volunteer position at a nonprofit that is willing to train. Find a truly entry level position that is willing to train at whatever level (kennel, reception, assistant, whatever). Or be taken advantage of by a greedy for-profit hospital that wants illegal free labor.

Even with a NONPROFIT, where I was allowed to legally volunteer however many hours I wanted to, the second they hired me to do the same tech duties I did while volunteering, I was not allowed to volunteer at all in the vet services department. Outside my 40 hrs/wk, I was not allowed to clock out as an employee and clock in as a volunteer, no matter how much I wanted to. Because it would have been illegal for them not to pay me time and a half for that. Even with my consent.

At the three hospitals I've worked at, a shadower could come and go as they pleased (we make them tell us in advance when they'll be in, but we have no expectations for commitment). They don't do any tangible work. We still staff exactly the same as if they didn't exist. The hospital doesn't benefit from having the shadower there other than maybe some good company. If they seem like the right fit, and want them to come in at scheduled times to help out to whatever capacity they're able to while they train on actual tech duties, they get paid. This includes an awesome prevet who had no previous experience. Even our tech students who are getting the experience necessary to graduate get paid, because they fill shifts and provide us with work that we would otherwise be paying someone else for. Free labor was not a regular part of anyone getting experience at the hospitals I've worked at. This includes the horrible employer that stretched the requirements of exempt salaried employees (I.e. Associate vets) to likely illegal boundaries. Even that shady ass of an employer would not toe this line for this particular set of laws that have clear precedents (maybe not in vet med, but in many other fields). There are places that do things right...


http://www.forbes.com/sites/richard...unteers-and-interns-is-it-legal/#402b9bf52dcd

http://www.wagehourblog.com/2014/01/articles/off-the-clock/employee-training-paid-or-unpaid/

http://www.wardandsmith.com/articles/wage-hour-law-volunteers-interns



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Everyone agrees with the above from what I can gather. The thing is, the OP needs to respectfully decline the offer to volunteer, instead of wondering if she/he should report the person. We also don't have the other side is the story, it could be that this vet is meaning volunteer as more of a shadow opportunity (they get used so interchangeably that it is hard to know). It is also very possible that he's wanting to try to train the OP for free, which I know we all here would disagree with. His intentions are something that we'll probably never know.

The OP though definitely needs a change of attitude when it comes to gaining experience. I don't think anyone here is suggesting the OP take on a volunteer position where he/she is being taken advantage of. But OP needs to realize that he will need to compromise a lot if he wants any experience in vet med.

 

[chickenlittle]

Okay, I'm going to try to sum this up for you...

You applied for a vet tech job. By what you're saying here, they do not want to offer you that job. Period. Apparently you aren't the best candidate, or aren't what they had in mind, or whatever. Therefore, you can stop worrying about whether you're getting paid for the job or not. You aren't getting the job, period. That job doesn't exist for you. What they are instead offering is a volunteer position - do you want to volunteer or not? If not, then quit wasting your brainpower on this and move on.

While working in the kennel, I often helped the veterinarian & registered techs with other 'stuff.' I learned to draw blood, I occasionally helped monitor anesthesia, and I helped take xrays. Yes, my primary responsibility was cleaning kennels, but that was not my sole responsibility. While working as a receptionist, I learned a lot about preventive care and a number of common medical conditions, because I was the one doing a lot of the client education. Anyone who is new to a vet clinic will have a lot to learn in any role within the clinic. Your inability to understand/appreciate this fact just underscores your complete lack of understanding of the field.

Finally, it's been well over a week since you initially posted this.... so it all may be a moot point if you haven't responded to the vet by now.

 

[dyachei]

It is illegal and it is enforceable. Just because it happens all the time does not negate that. Training has to be paid. You either hire a relatively trained person if you don't want to pay to train someone with 0 experience. Or you suck it up and at least pay minimum wage for training. The law is pretty black and white about this. There is no gray zone. There is a very narrow exception for interns where specific criteria must be met, and a vast majority of these situations in vet hospitals would not. Just because someone gets experience out of it (and maybe they are even giddy about it) and they are okay with not being paid doesn't make it any more legal.

Whether people know about it, or care to report it, or are complicit to the whole situation is a whole nother story. We all complain about the ****ty pay/treatment of veterinary staff, but this is the attitude that allows it to happen. It's not okay. Clearly no one else agrees, but whatever, to each his own I guess.

Obviously we're only hearing it second hand from the OP, and it's hard to understand exactly what is going on. But if the employer truly asked him to spend an unspecified period of time to train for free, at which point he may or may not be eligible for hire, and he has proof of it, the labor board would be very interested. Of course, it doesn't make OP any more hirable.

Based on what the OP has stated, I wouldn't hire OP. He's just not very hirable, and doesn't seem to understand how vet hospitals work. But that doesn't give anyone the right to take advantage of that situation and try to get his labor for free. Even unskilled labor is worth minimum wage pay. This is not a charitable organization.

OP has choices to make. He can find a volunteer position at a nonprofit that is willing to train. Find a truly entry level position that is willing to train at whatever level (kennel, reception, assistant, whatever). Or be taken advantage of by a greedy for-profit hospital that wants illegal free labor.

Even with a NONPROFIT, where I was allowed to legally volunteer however many hours I wanted to, the second they hired me to do the same tech duties I did while volunteering, I was not allowed to volunteer at all in the vet services department. Outside my 40 hrs/wk, I was not allowed to clock out as an employee and clock in as a volunteer, no matter how much I wanted to. Because it would have been illegal for them not to pay me time and a half for that. Even with my consent.

At the three hospitals I've worked at, a shadower could come and go as they pleased (we make them tell us in advance when they'll be in, but we have no expectations for commitment). They don't do any tangible work. We still staff exactly the same as if they didn't exist. The hospital doesn't benefit from having the shadower there other than maybe some good company. If they seem like the right fit, and want them to come in at scheduled times to help out to whatever capacity they're able to while they train on actual tech duties, they get paid. This includes an awesome prevet who had no previous experience. Even our tech students who are getting the experience necessary to graduate get paid, because they fill shifts and provide us with work that we would otherwise be paying someone else for. Free labor was not a regular part of anyone getting experience at the hospitals I've worked at. This includes the horrible employer that stretched the requirements of exempt salaried employees (I.e. Associate vets) to likely illegal boundaries. Even that shady ass of an employer would not toe this line for this particular set of laws that have clear precedents (maybe not in vet med, but in many other fields). There are places that do things right...


http://www.forbes.com/sites/richard...unteers-and-interns-is-it-legal/#402b9bf52dcd

http://www.wagehourblog.com/2014/01/articles/off-the-clock/employee-training-paid-or-unpaid/

http://www.wardandsmith.com/articles/wage-hour-law-volunteers-interns



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It's unenforceable unless she has proof. In the form of a written contract, recording, or witness statements. It doesn't matter how illegal it is, it becomes he said she said. I agree that asking for someone to volunteer during a training period is unethical and illegal. I'd never ask anyone to do that. But I'm getting the feeling that giving her the opportunity to volunteer isn't strictly for training purposes. Moreover, I doubt that the op truly understands the situation based on what has been posted here.

 

[Minnerbelle]

It's unenforceable unless she has proof. In the form of a written contract, recording, or witness statements. It doesn't matter how illegal it is, it becomes he said she said. I agree that asking for someone to volunteer during a training period is unethical and illegal. I'd never ask anyone to do that. But I'm getting the feeling that giving her the opportunity to volunteer isn't strictly for training purposes. Moreover, I doubt that the op truly understands the situation based on what has been posted here.

I never said we should take what OP has been saying at face value? Clearly, this person doesn't have a handle on the situation.

Which is why I've qualified at least twice that the situation needs to be true and that there has to be proof.


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[dyachei]

I never said we should take what OP has been saying at face value? Clearly, this person doesn't have a handle on the situation.

Which is why I've qualified at least twice that the situation needs to be true and that there has to be proof.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Well since you quoted me I was explaining why it's unenforceable in this situation...if you didn't want me to respond, you shouldn't have quoted me. I believe I said something similar before, too.

I was specifically speaking to this situation. I hope you know me well enough to understand I wouldn't recommend being taken advantage of, but your post implies otherwise

 

[Minnerbelle]

I was specifically speaking to this situation.

Sorry, I honestly couldn't tell based on what you had said. Partly because of my own biases and frame of reference, but because it truly was unclear to me.

I hope you know me well enough to understand I wouldn't recommend being taken advantage of, but your post implies otherwise

That IS how I read your post, and I was shocked/horrified. Thanks for clarifying.

If you look at what I quoted from you, you just said "it, it, it" without clarifying what that "it" stood for. Which is where the misunderstanding came from. Since you were talking about my bringing up "it" being illegal, and *I* was personally talking about for-profit employers committing wage theft in the guise of using "volunteers" in general, I assumed that is what you meant.

if you didn't want me to respond, you shouldn't have quoted me. I believe I said something similar before, too.

Like I said, I *was* responding directly to your quote for a reason. But noted. After this, I probably will never quote you again. In fact I'm getting way too crotchety for these forums, so I'm moving on.




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[dyachei]

Sorry, I honestly couldn't tell based on what you had said. Partly because of my own biases and frame of reference, but because it truly was unclear to me.



That IS how I read your post, and I was shocked/horrified. Thanks for clarifying.

If you look at what I quoted from you, you just said "it, it, it" without clarifying what that "it" stood for. Which is where the misunderstanding came from. Since you were talking about my bringing up "it" being illegal, and *I* was personally talking about for-profit employers committing wage theft in the guise of using "volunteers" in general, I assumed that is what you meant.



Like I said, I *was* responding directly to your quote for a reason. But noted. After this, I probably will never quote you again. In fact I'm getting way too crotchety for these forums, so I'm moving on.




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I don't expect you to never quote me again. I just expect that you don't assume the worst about me.

I responded calmly initially but your response seemed a little defensive. It would have been better to ask questions than to make assumptions about what I was saying

 

[FLVettrain]

How do you list the Volunteer experience on your resume. Do you list it as an employment?

Add duration of dates or the hours?

 

[dyachei]

How do you list the Volunteer experience on your resume. Do you list it as an employment?

Add duration of dates or the hours?

No, you list it as volunteer. You can do bullet points like with employment as to what your duties were. But typically a separate section than employment.

 

[FLVettrain]

Vet denied the paid position like we thought. What does "Willing to Train" mean on job posts? I've seen it for several clinics...

Offered the volunteer opportunity and if all goes well to give me a paid position.

 

[battie]

Vet denied the paid position like we thought. What does "Willing to Train" mean on job posts? I've seen it for several clinics...

Offered the volunteer opportunity and if all goes well to give me a paid position.

Willing to train means that they are willing to take on someone with a low level of experience if they feel you'll fit the job well.

 

[Cmmore15]

Vet denied the paid position like we thought. What does "Willing to Train" mean on job posts? I've seen it for several clinics...

Offered the volunteer opportunity and if all goes well to give me a paid position.

The volunteer position is most likely whatever you can do. They don't expect you to be there full time for free. They understand you have to make money someway or another. So you go to them and say "I would love a volunteer position but I will only be available certain days of the week, because I will be pursuing other options for employment at this time."


KSU c/o 2020!!!!

 

[Cmmore15]

Willing to train means that they are willing to take on someone with a low level of experience if they feel you'll fit the job well.

Low level experience is not the same as no animal care experience.


KSU c/o 2020!!!!

 

[battie]

Low level experience is not the same as no animal care experience.


KSU c/o 2020!!!!

The post I quoted from her said nothing about no animal care experience.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Vet denied the paid position like we thought. What does "Willing to Train" mean on job posts? I've seen it for several clinics...

Offered the volunteer opportunity and if all goes well to give me a paid position.

Honestly, it can mean whatever the employer wants it to mean within reason. I still don't think you're understanding exactly how much training it would take to bring a person from ground zero to a functioning, independent technician. "Willing to train" can apply to someone with no experience or an assistant looking to gain more responsibilities. In this case, the employer doesn't want to start putting money down on someone with no veterinary skills and who may have come off as a high maintenance employee or as someone who has no clue what a tech (or receptionist, or kennel worker...) is actually responsible for.

At the end of the day, you're not the first person to want a paid clinic job and end up with a volunteer position. It can be a great starting point. Show enthusiasm, always be willing to help, and *please* remember that no task is beneath you, ever. IMO, the best vets to work with are the ones that have no issues about cleaning up. Whether or not they have time is a different story.

 

[rockatiel]

Veterinary and animal care experience are different. Granted, you do practice quite a bit of husbandry in the kennels, being supervised by a vet makes it veterinary experience. You can sure have animal care experience without being in a clinic.

 

[Cmmore15]

The post I quoted from her said nothing about no animal care experience.

I know lol I was just making a point