Regret switching to medicine

[tiger1523]

I'm curious to hear from all the non-tradtionals out there who are now out of residency and practicing. How does being a physician compare to your old job? Do you regret switching or are you happy you left a 9 to 5?

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[dorothyntoto]

I'm not out yet, but I'll say this: I would rather be in medical school than working in a lab. I worked in a medical lab, it was better than nothing, but it certainly isn't as good as rotations!

 

[tiger1523]

Thanks for the reply. I'm also wondering how it compares to being in a 9 to 5 being chained to a desk all day. I'm sure there's a lot of days most physicians would love to be at a desk for 8 hours without having to talk to anyone, however I'm wondering what the difference is over the course of a few years.

 

[QofQuimica]

I've come to the realization that I don't want any job, period. I plain don't like having to show up wherever someone else wants me to be, doing whatever they want me to do, whenever they want me to do it. So for someone like me, no, medicine is not greatly better than my last career (chemistry tech). Residency, in fact, was substantially worse than working in the lab, because I had basically no control whatsoever over my schedule and work-life balance, and I was not a good fit for my program. However, both of those problems are significantly improved now that I'm an attending, as is the compensation. I estimate that I will be able to afford to quit working altogether in about five years. I probably won't quit working altogether, because age 45 is awfully young to sit around here in FL playing shuffleboard all day. But I will be working on my own terms, a la MrMoneyMustache. (Great blog, BTW, for those who are interested in being financially independent as quickly as possible.)

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm curious to hear from all the non-tradtionals out there who are now out of residency and practicing. How does being a physician compare to your old job? Do you regret switching or are you happy you left a 9 to 5?

I was never in a 9 to 5 world, but this is definitely more fun and stimulating. But thats a very personal analysis -- medicine is NOT for everyone. Every career has it's plusses and minuses but there's definitely better and worse fits. I'm afraid you need to answer this question for yourself. Go into it with your eyes open. It's not all cake and ice-cream. there will be people who regret the choice and days you might too.

 

[tiger1523]

I've come to the realization that I don't want any job, period. I plain don't like having to show up wherever someone else wants me to be, doing whatever they want me to do, whenever they want me to do it. So for someone like me, no, medicine is not greatly better than my last career (chemistry tech). Residency, in fact, was substantially worse than working in the lab, because I had basically no control whatsoever over my schedule and work-life balance, and I was not a good fit for my program. However, both of those problems are significantly improved now that I'm an attending, as is the compensation. I estimate that I will be able to afford to quit working altogether in about five years. I probably won't quit working altogether, because age 45 is awfully young to sit around here in FL playing shuffleboard all day. But I will be working on my own terms, a la MrMoneyMustache. (Great blog, BTW, for those who are interested in being financially independent as quickly as possible.)

So when people say not to go into medicine for the money you would disagree with them. Basically any jobs sucks so you'd pick the one that pays well so you can reach financial independence as soon as possible?

 

[dorothyntoto]

I don't think that is what Q is saying, but that's my opinion. If you want to go into something for the money, go into finance. I can tell you right now that I know people who went into medicine for money and/or prestige, and they now hate their lives.

 

[Law2Doc]

So when people say not to go into medicine for the money you would disagree with them. Basically any jobs sucks so you'd pick the one that pays well so you can reach financial independence as soon as possible?

agree with the prior poster that you likely are missing Qs point. Medicine is long schooling and residency, I doubt anyone would seriously suggest this is a path to "reach financial independence as soon as possible". And it's a rougher hurdle to get over to get to this point than most things -- really not many jobs where you are up all night splattered in others bodily fluids, sleep deprived, having to break bad news to a crying family so regularly, always at risk of being sued if you miss something. It's really not a path many of us would happily tolerate if the ONLY benefit was a nice paycheck in a decade, or maybe early retirement (not so likely in most specialties given reimbursement cuts that are eternally happening BTW). I think Q is really saying a lot of things in medicine aren't what she hoped they'd be like, and if she had it to over again she might actually do things differently. So no, I'd strongly disagree with your notion that it's a job like any other. It's a good choice for some, horrible choice for others. Not something you should back into. Know thyself. But if it suits your interests and personality, you might really like it. If not, sometimes, like Q, you can still make it work. And maybe even do some good for a few patients along the way.

 

[DrMidlife]

Things that can make a job awesome & make me excited to get up in the morning: people, purpose, process, pay.

Things that can make a job suck & make me dread going in: people, purpose, process, pay.

I don't know a single working person whose livelihood isn't subject to the whims of uncontrollable, unpredictable people, purpose, process, pay. Some people get lucky and have either the money or the spouse or the inner peace to not be regularly, profoundly affected by people, purpose, process, pay. In medicine, without exception, we wade through an organizational swamp that is completely unaffected by our needs and preferences for a decade, at least, before there's any chance to be in, or create, something less swamp-like.

I regularly saw awesomeness & suckage alternate throughout the day in my prior career. There's a whole lot of meh in there as well.

Medicine is a JOB subject to the same meh/awesome/meh/suck/meh cycle. The thing that medicine has is a pretty amazing level of privilege. The first time I reached for a patient's thyroid and didn't have my hand smacked away clued me in to that. There's also a pretty amazing body of knowledge and expertise in med that to me is more interesting than the body of knowledge and expertise I had (have?) as an engineer.

Is it worth another decade of school & training to get that knowledge and expertise to use in a different job with the same cycles of meh/awesome/meh/suck/meh, depending on the whims of people, purpose, process & pay?

If you are looking for your own deeply felt personal answer to that question, give up now on that answer being a simple yes or no.

I suggest that the answer is extraordinarily complex, and how you feel is going to vary by the year/week/hour based on mostly uncontrollable, constantly changing people, purpose, process and pay.

Best of luck to you.

 

[URMD]

I used to think as a pre-med that I worked harder than everyone else, and my arts/business friends were lazy and lucky and had chill schedules.
But I realized a while ago that if you want to be successful and have financial independence, it requires a lot of hard work regardless of the field. Want to startup a garbage pickup company? Be prepared for long house and all manner of not nice things.
Same for lawyers, engineers, accountants, investment bankers, entreprenuers etc. Many of these jobs which people say are good money involve long hours, sleep dperivation, no control over your time, and a looongg internship/training period before you really start living the good life!

My uncle is a owns a contracting company to make buildings. You would think he has it made but he still works long hours, and for him to get to where he is today there was a very long incubation period. Its just the way the world works, medicine is no different in this regard.

All "successful" jobs suck in one way or another, but I would say the general "suckage", lol is the same regardless and how hard you have to work to make it "well-off" is more or less the same, albeit in different contexts depending on your path.
This is what I think but I would like to hear others opnions on this as well

 

[Law2Doc]

I used to think as a pre-med that I worked harder than everyone else, and my arts/business friends were lazy and lucky and had chill schedules.
But I realized a while ago that if you want to be successful and have financial independence, it requires a lot of hard work regardless of the field. Want to startup a garbage pickup company? Be prepared for long house and all manner of not nice things.
Same for lawyers, engineers, accountants, investment bankers, entreprenuers etc. Many of these jobs which people say are good money involve long hours, sleep dperivation, no control over your time, and a looongg internship/training period before you really start living the good life!

My uncle is a owns a contracting company to make buildings. You would think he has it made but he still works long hours, and for him to get to where he is today there was a very long incubation period. Its just the way the world works, medicine is no different in this regard.

All "successful" jobs suck in one way or another, but I would say the general "suckage", lol is the same regardless and how hard you have to work to make it "well-off" is more or less the same, albeit in different contexts depending on your path.
This is what I think but I would like to hear others opnions on this as well

Disagree. Having come from another long-houred field I'd say it's really not the same. You work longer hours in medicine, more of them are at night and weekends and holidays and people are sick and dying as a component of (and hopefully not because of) your work. So I'd say the 80 hours a week I sometimes worked as a lawyer some weeks, although it seemed like a lot at the time, did not compare to the 80 hours a week I often exceeded as an intern, in terms of stress, sleep deprivation, or just plain required concentration/focus and effort. It's not just another job. Yes you have to work hard to succeed in everything, but comparing these is like when a college kid tells a med student how hard his schedule is -- you just chuckle to yourself and think to yourself, just wait.

And for the record, I don't think either of my "successful jobs" "sucked". But I do think that for someone with a different personality, interests or focus one or both of them easily could.

 

[URMD]

Disagree. Having come from another long-houred field I'd say it's really not the same. You work longer hours in medicine, more of them are at night and weekends and holidays and people are sick and dying as a component of (and hopefully not because of) your work. So I'd say the 80 hours a week I sometimes worked as a lawyer some weeks, although it seemed like a lot at the time, did not compare to the 80 hours a week I often exceeded as an intern, in terms of stress, sleep deprivation, or just plain required concentration/focus and effort. It's not just another job. Yes you have to work hard to succeed in everything, but comparing these is like when a college kid tells a med student how hard his schedule is -- you just chuckle to yourself and think to yourself, just wait.

And for the record, I don't think either of my "successful jobs" "sucked". But I do think that for someone with a different personality, interests or focus one or both of them easily could.

Thanks for your input. I hear the bolded statement around a lot here but not much in terms of specifics. Could you or anyone give a general overview of what type of personality, interest, or focus specifically is more amenable to a career in medicine vs. other careers? Beyond the whole "wanting to help people/I love science" mantra that all pre-meds say. As someone actually in the thick of it all, what personality traits do you find most happy/ successful doctors have that makes medicine a perfect fit for them and what common traits do you see in people who have regretted their decision?

 

[jakeislove]

Not in a residency, yet, but medicine is more fun, interesting, and stimulating than anything I've done in a traditional job.

 

[Nasrudin]

....
Medicine is a JOB subject to the same meh/awesome/meh/suck/meh cycle. The thing that medicine has is a pretty amazing level of privilege. The first time I reached for a patient's thyroid and didn't have my hand smacked away clued me in to that. There's also a pretty amazing body of knowledge and expertise in med that to me is more interesting than the body of knowledge and expertise I had (have?) as an engineer.

Beside the greatness and truth of this post. It also gave me 5 minutes of chuckling as I imagined DrML in dozens of other careers reaching for peoples' thyroid before finally finding a home in medicine. Where such a bizarre compulsion is only acceptably strange.

 

[DrMidlife]

LOL!

 

[QofQuimica]

So when people say not to go into medicine for the money you would disagree with them. Basically any jobs sucks so you'd pick the one that pays well so you can reach financial independence as soon as possible?

On the contrary. Going into medicine solely for the money is so far beyond stupid that it makes stupid look brilliant. The fact that you took that message from my post astounds me....it's the complete opposite of my thoughts on the subject.

agree with the prior poster that you likely are missing Qs point. Medicine is long schooling and residency, I doubt anyone would seriously suggest this is a path to "reach financial independence as soon as possible". And it's a rougher hurdle to get over to get to this point than most things -- really not many jobs where you are up all night splattered in others bodily fluids, sleep deprived, having to break bad news to a crying family so regularly, always at risk of being sued if you miss something. It's really not a path many of us would happily tolerate if the ONLY benefit was a nice paycheck in a decade, or maybe early retirement (not so likely in most specialties given reimbursement cuts that are eternally happening BTW). I think Q is really saying a lot of things in medicine aren't what she hoped they'd be like, and if she had it to over again she might actually do things differently. So no, I'd strongly disagree with your notion that it's a job like any other. It's a good choice for some, horrible choice for others. Not something you should back into. Know thyself. But if it suits your interests and personality, you might really like it. If not, sometimes, like Q, you can still make it work. And maybe even do some good for a few patients along the way.

I hereby appoint L2D my personal interpreter for this thread. Maybe this makes clearer what I was trying to say?

OP, "regret" is a strong word. I wouldn't say that I regret going into medicine. I don't lie awake nights (or days in my case, since I'm a nocturnist) lamenting my decision to go to med school. I don't think my life sucks, or that medicine is horrible and no one should ever do it. (I do think it's a bad decision for certain people to do it, particularly those who are doing it solely for the money.) But I don't love medicine either, and much of the time, I'd rather be doing something else than going to work when it comes time to go to work. Not too different than about 95%+ of working folks out there, I'd say. Point being, there are plenty of "9-5" type hassles in medicine too.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks for your input. I hear the bolded statement around a lot here but not much in terms of specifics. Could you or anyone give a general overview of what type of personality, interest, or focus specifically is more amenable to a career in medicine vs. other careers? Beyond the whole "wanting to help people/I love science" mantra that all pre-meds say. As someone actually in the thick of it all, what personality traits do you find most happy/ successful doctors have that makes medicine a perfect fit for them and what common traits do you see in people who have regretted their decision?

First, I'm on record saying "wanting to help people" or "loving science" are insufficient reasons to go into medicine. Those are happy byproducts but not driving forces. We let it slide for the 20 year old applicant who doesn't know any better but on the nontrad board you need more meat on those bones.

My point is that 98% of this job is attitude driven. If you dread getting in at 5 am or working the weekend or being up all night, you've pretty much willed yourself to be miserable at those times even before it starts. If it will ruin your day to get a little blood or vomit on your scrubs, life's gonna be bad for you. If you don't see humor in various aspects of the human condition you might wallow in depression and hate your life. If you don't think the fact that 99% of the population won't get to do half the things you are going to do on rotations is kind of neat, maybe this is all lost on you. if the attending says who wants to try their hand at X and your hand shoots up before you even hear what X is, this might be the right fit. If your the kind of guy who watches the clock, waiting for the 5 pm whistle to leave, this might not be the right place. I don't know if I'm making sense but the right person goes to work, works hard, gets messy and has a blast doing it, while the wrong kind of person is miserable for an inordinate number of hours a week, just biding their time.

 

[deleted307836]

I've come to the realization that I don't want any job, period. I plain don't like having to show up wherever someone else wants me to be, doing whatever they want me to do, whenever they want me to do it. So for someone like me, no, medicine is not greatly better than my last career (chemistry tech). Residency, in fact, was substantially worse than working in the lab, because I had basically no control whatsoever over my schedule and work-life balance, and I was not a good fit for my program. However, both of those problems are significantly improved now that I'm an attending, as is the compensation. I estimate that I will be able to afford to quit working altogether in about five years. I probably won't quit working altogether, because age 45 is awfully young to sit around here in FL playing shuffleboard all day. But I will be working on my own terms, a la MrMoneyMustache. (Great blog, BTW, for those who are interested in being financially independent as quickly as possible.)

This sounds like the thought process of people who eventually go into business for themselves. Is that realistic with your specialty? Probably not, as I can only think of a handful that can nowadays.

I second the endorsement of the mrmoneymustchache blog. This is probably my favorite post there: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

Financial independence has been a strong interest of mine since I was a high schooler. While I would agree that it would be stupid to go into medicine only as a means of retiring early or attaining financial independence, medicine does provide a relatively high basement-level of compensation that does make attaining financial independence much easier. Notice the table on that blog post. If you live off of, say, 30k/yr regardless of how much more than that you're earning, then a high income makes retirement hugely more attainable in a fewer number of years. My point is that early retirement/financial independence is probably much easier for someone already in medicine than it is for professionals in most other fields (theoretically -- this implies not spending to match your peers) due to the potential to earn a relatively high income in medicine.

For someone with a family and with high debt levels, the above probably doesn't apply very well. For a single person with no kids or DINKs with lower levels of debt, it's a different story.

 

[TheTao]

For someone with a family and with high debt levels, the above probably doesn't apply very well. For a single person with no kids or DINKs with lower levels of debt, it's a different story.

Don't forget empty nesters!!!

 

[dorothyntoto]

Beside the greatness and truth of this post. It also gave me 5 minutes of chuckling as I imagined DrML in dozens of other careers reaching for peoples' thyroid before finally finding a home in medicine. Where such a bizarre compulsion is only acceptably strange.

I was thinking the same thing... @DrMidlife wth were you doing before med school???

On the contrary. Going into medicine solely for the money is so far beyond stupid that it makes stupid look brilliant. The fact that you took that message from my post astounds me....it's the complete opposite of my thoughts on the subject.
I hereby appoint L2D my personal interpreter for this thread. Maybe this makes clearer what I was trying to say?

I understood you too!!!

First, I'm on record saying "wanting to help people" or "loving science" are insufficient reasons to go into medicine. Those are happy byproducts but not driving forces. We let it slide for the 20 year old applicant who doesn't know any better but on the nontrad board you need more meat on those bones.

My most recent preceptor actually was asking me why I went into medicine because he's only a few years out of residency and he's miserable and trying to figure out a way to make medicine work for him. He freely admitted to me he went into it for the wrong reasons. As a non-trad student one of my angles was that I have literally tried every other part of science and medicine before I actually applied to medical school. Worked in a lab, tried to get into rad tech, nursing school, NP school, PA school... all failed, 1st try at DO school, accepted by Oct... I knew I wanted to be in medicine and it just wasn't going to work out any other way... I literally get up every day and find joy in what I do. I basically have been an unpaid worker/volunteer for the last 7 months, and I've loved pretty much every day of it. While being a 3rd year is less hard than 1st/2nd year med school, or residency, I still love it. Again, though, I did many other things, or tried them, before walking down this path... While working in my lab job the only days I woke up happy were the days I didn't have to go, and the days I got to shadow the docs I worked with...

For me, the only regret I've had is how F'ing hard medical school is on the mind and body. You question your abilities, you develop stress related health issues (insomnia, anxiety, depression, panic disorders, etc), you lose sleep over things... It's exhausting, and if you can't get up everyday for a reason besides money, you will be miserable at some point. You really have to be able to say, "yep, saw 10 crappy patients today, but the 11th made the whole day worth it"...

 

[QofQuimica]

This sounds like the thought process of people who eventually go into business for themselves. Is that realistic with your specialty? Probably not, as I can only think of a handful that can nowadays.

The thought has occurred to me that I should consider starting a financial advisor business. For physicians, natch.

Financial independence has been a strong interest of mine since I was a high schooler. While I would agree that it would be stupid to go into medicine only as a means of retiring early or attaining financial independence, medicine does provide a relatively high basement-level of compensation that does make attaining financial independence much easier. Notice the table on that blog post. If you live off of, say, 30k/yr regardless of how much more than that you're earning, then a high income makes retirement hugely more attainable in a fewer number of years. My point is that early retirement/financial independence is probably much easier for someone already in medicine than it is for professionals in most other fields (theoretically -- this implies not spending to match your peers) due to the potential to earn a relatively high income in medicine.

For someone with a family and with high debt levels, the above probably doesn't apply very well. For a single person with no kids or DINKs with lower levels of debt, it's a different story.

Financially, med school turned out to be a boon for me because I graduated with no debt; I came to medicine from a minimum wage job with a fairly limited income potential; and I do not have my own children. That's not the case for most nontrads. Don't fool yourself into thinking med school is a "good" financial investment, particularly if you're an older nontrad and/or coming from a job with real income potential for someone with just a BS or maybe an MS. And don't underestimate the sociological effect of suddenly entering the upper middle class and needing to keep up with the Joneses. Even if you don't want to spend your hard earned money on that private school tuition or new BMW, your spouse and other loved ones might.

I understood you too!!!

Thanks. I hope I don't come across as saying medicine is "just another job," because it definitely ain't.

 

[deleted307836]

The thought has occurred to me that I should consider starting a financial advisor business. For physicians, natch.

If you frequent the Bogleheads forum I'm guessing you've come across this guy: http://stkplanning.com/

He's also a MD/PhD.

 

[Nasrudin]

The thought has occurred to me that I should consider starting a financial advisor business. For physicians, natch.


Financially, med school turned out to be a boon for me because I graduated with no debt; I came to medicine from a minimum wage job with a fairly limited income potential; and I do not have my own children. That's not the case for most nontrads. Don't fool yourself into thinking med school is a "good" financial investment, particularly if you're an older nontrad and/or coming from a job with real income potential for someone with just a BS or maybe an MS. And don't underestimate the sociological effect of suddenly entering the upper middle class and needing to keep up with the Joneses. Even if you don't want to spend your hard earned money on that private school tuition or new BMW, your spouse and other loved ones might.


Thanks. I hope I don't come across as saying medicine is "just another job," because it definitely ain't.

Lunch on me with scotch and cigars at one of those swanky penthouse joints with a view downtown for a consultation my senior year?

But otherwise I get what you're saying about the jobbyness vs full on career commitment of being a physician. However, I feel like in premedville, the misconception is more in the direction of underestimating the mundane job like nature of the career. One would think less so of the nontrad forum but not from what I read here.

 

[dorothyntoto]

Q, no it never came across that way... the thing that sucks as a 3rd year is that the doctors seem to want to shield me from the realities of medicine. The insurance BS, the paperwork BS, etc... I feel it does a disservice to students. They/we should know as much of the BS as possible before they get into the real world. Like how coding is a nightmare, insurance companies dictate way more than they should be, etc...
Q, you should start that finance company learn to do hedge funds... I know a kid (he's 27) making 1.4m/yr in NYC doing hedge fund BS... If you want to go into a job for the money, that's the one... every year is like winning the lottery...

 

[cabinbuilder]

I love being a physician and am glad that I did it. Not every day is great and you have those patients who boss you, those who hate you, but then you discover that tumor or twisted bowel that would have killed someone and you are the hero ago. The endless charting sucks and I'm chained to the computer for most of my life. However, I love the financial freedom (yes I am working on my debt, too) but there is a huge difference working 40hr/week for $400 and 40 hr/ for $4000. I work 60-70 hr/wk because that I what I signed up for but when that $7500 for a week's work hits my bank I'm living the dream.

 

[EParker37]

This is an interesting thread, I haven't gone to med school yet, but I have been in EMS for going on 10 years. I did the firefighter/paramedic thing for 6 years before getting an inkling that I liked the medical side of things more, so I transitioned into flight medicine, I have worked a 24 on/48 off schedule, a rotating 4 12's a week schedule and the 3 12's every fri/sat/sun where I am now, plus plenty of overtime throughout. I have been in an overturned SUV at 3 in the morning in the middle of a thunderstorm trying to intubate an upside down patient who is puking and bleeding all over me. Worked more codes and MI's than I can shake a stick at, and held grandma's hand 30 minutes to the nearest facility simply because she was scared and didn't need anything but comfort care. Through it all, I have never lost my passion or zeal towards helping people. Sure, there were times when I ran on the same OD'ed junkie for the third time in the same week where I was frustrated and upset. But I never wanted to quit. Medicine is what I love doing, I love learning a new procedure or thought process I can apply to my clinical skills, or picking up a new trick from a physician at a conference. The constant learning process is one of the things that interests me about medicine. Money has never factored into anything, I have never made a lot of money, but I budgeted and lived within my means and I am quite happy. I don't claim to be able to tell you what it is like in the clinical setting, but I have a pretty good handle on the various aspects of what it means to work in medicine, it truly has to be something that you really want to do. Just like any job it has its ups and downs, but at least for me the ups far outweigh the downs. I don't regret deciding to get into medicine and I look forward to going to work and furthering my education. It sure beats working in a soul-draining cubicle job 9-5.

 

[Bryan O’Blivion]

I am currently in residency, in the very bowels of intern year. I still think that it is better than most of my previous jobs. I have had a number of stressful jobs with long hours, and honestly, this pays better and is less stressful than some of them. It can be tiring and emotionally trying, but it is isn't war, and it isn't the gulag. In fact, the pay really isn't all that bad, comparatively.

It varies by specialty. Make sure you choose yours wisely. There are some that I have rotated through that if I were in that program, and couldn't re-apply out of it, I would seriously be considering the French Foreign Legion.

But in the big picture: Non, je ne regrette rien!

 

[tiger1523]

On the contrary. Going into medicine solely for the money is so far beyond stupid that it makes stupid look brilliant. The fact that you took that message from my post astounds me....it's the complete opposite of my thoughts on the subject.


I hereby appoint L2D my personal interpreter for this thread. Maybe this makes clearer what I was trying to say?

OP, "regret" is a strong word. I wouldn't say that I regret going into medicine. I don't lie awake nights (or days in my case, since I'm a nocturnist) lamenting my decision to go to med school. I don't think my life sucks, or that medicine is horrible and no one should ever do it. (I do think it's a bad decision for certain people to do it, particularly those who are doing it solely for the money.) But I don't love medicine either, and much of the time, I'd rather be doing something else than going to work when it comes time to go to work. Not too different than about 95%+ of working folks out there, I'd say. Point being, there are plenty of "9-5" type hassles in medicine too.

My apologies and thank you for clearing it up. I was confused because that would've basically flew in the face of everything I've read here so far.