Regulation/General BS in Medicine vs Dentistry

[doctorsomeone]

I have read through a few prior threads but I believe I may be having what one would call a "coming to Jesus" moment. I have graduated college with all my pre-med classes taken, and have I believe around a 3.75 GPA, 33 old MCAT. I have been working as a scribe in a hospital for almost a year, and have been slowly surprised by how much I actually truly hate it, and see first-hand how much regulation/over-documentation BS that only serves to waste time, has been infiltrating hospitals lately, and leaves the doctor-patient relationship in the dust. I will be completely honest, I had not considered dentistry until I started shadowing my general dentist lately, and the setting seems much less insane/paranoia all around. I enjoy working with my hands ("getting stuff done"), and the procedures really seem to interest me. At this point, I am considering a deferment (have been accepted to a few MD schools this year), and pursuing dental school this upcoming cycle instead, and taking the DAT. My gut is starting to tell me this is the right decision, but am I being deluded?

Do you all think dentistry for the foreseeable future will have the job autonomy, freedom from certain predatory insurance reimbursement schemes that medicine is falling prey to? Or am I falling victim to the grass-is-always-greener syndrome?

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[Scumbag_Steve]

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[Bernie Sanders]

I actually wish I had gone to med school in retrospect. Things are getting very difficult in dentistry as big corporate chains are pushing out the solo DDS.
You should do psych. Pay is going up in there, and it isn't as stressful as some other MD specialties.

 

[doctorsomeone]

Mr Sanders, I see where you are going, but from my research it seems like corporate dental revenue is only about 5% of all revenue in the US. And even if this bumps up into the teens, which I bet it might by the time I am practicing, it still is no where close to the amount of central planning and regulation going on in medicine. Even the dental corporate chains seem like a better deal than the current way power in medicine is centralized, across huge hospital systems with thousands of physicians that have to beg for money from insurers and are man-handled by CMS. This past year has really opened my eyes to that.

 

[dentalcpa90]

Mr Sanders, I see where you are going, but from my research it seems like corporate dental revenue is only about 5% of all revenue in the US. And even if this bumps up into the teens, which I bet it might by the time I am practicing, it still is no where close to the amount of central planning and regulation going on in medicine. Even the dental corporate chains seem like a better deal than the current way power in medicine is centralized, across huge hospital systems with thousands of physicians that have to beg for money from insurers and are man-handled by CMS. This past year has really opened my eyes to that.

There is always Derm, Plastics, ENT, Ophthalmology, or Psych. You can start your own practice away from the system.

 

[doctorsomeone]

I really understand where you guys are coming from, but is it at the point that your dentist thinks he has to rush through patients (high volume) and patient care, spending 3-4 min per patient, working 70+ hours a week? Because that is exactly where medicine is heading. Similar problem, but I just think the problem is magnified compared to dentistry.

 

[Bernie Sanders]

I really understand where you guys are coming from, but is it at the point that your dentist thinks he has to rush through patients (high volume) and patient care, spending 3-4 min per patient, working 70+ hours a week? Because that is exactly where medicine is heading. Similar problem, but I just think the problem is magnified compared to dentistry.

Actually yes. At the corporate chains they put an immense amount of pressure on the dentists to produce. What happens to the dentists that don't meet those high (read unethical) production numbers? You can probably guess.

 

[allantois]

Get over your problem with insurance. Ya think it's unfair for them to place stringent paperwork requirements when they are paying tens of thousands dollar bills? If it wasn't for insurance, patients would never be able to pay hospital bills. It's not like paying for a $100 dental filling.

 

[doctorsomeone]

Dentists at chains work more than 70 hours a week? I was under the impression thats not true at all. Although I understand they are probably worked pretty hard for production compared to solo practices.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

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[Screwtape]

Actually yes. At the corporate chains they put an immense amount of pressure on the dentists to produce. What happens to the dentists that don't meet those high (read unethical) production numbers? You can probably guess.

They get fired, and then they can't get a job anywhere else because dentistry is pretty much all corporate chains, and then they go bankrupt, and then they commit suicide, which is why dentists have the highest suicide rate. Oh wait.

 

[ncide]

Actually yes. At the corporate chains they put an immense amount of pressure on the dentists to produce. What happens to the dentists that don't meet those high (read unethical) production numbers? You can probably guess.

Nah. I work at a corporation. You see me posting here all the time.

We are always trying to dissuade people from getting veneers or other invasive cosmetic procedures. We heavily emphasize preventable treatment and we actively try to arrest cavities with nonsurgical means. There is absolutely no push to produce X amount. Everyone complains about working 40 hours a week though.

 

[Bernie Sanders]

They get fired, and then they can't get a job anywhere else because dentistry is pretty much all corporate chains, and then they go bankrupt, and then they commit suicide, which is why dentists have the highest suicide rate. Oh wait.

calm down

 

[Screwtape]

calm down

Lol just was trying to make a point. And according to the majority of your posts around here, you are the one that should enhance your calm. Woo-Sah.....

 

[480640]

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[DoctaFauci]

I would dissuade anyone from going into dental or medicine for financial gain. 8 years opportunity cost, $300k+ principal debt, saturated markets. For the OP, you better love what you do. Bc unless you love dentistry or medicine, you will burn out quickly bc you will hate the administrative bs of both.

Even hygiene is having a difficult time finding employment now at the advertised figures. If people are worried about corporate, there's a growing opportunity with FQHC and other primary care models. Corporate is only successful bc no one else is offering the target market (eg "working poor") a viable alternative. Sliding fee scale dentistry and smart scheduling/marketing can be a huge boon to the private practitioner in some markets.

 

[fellowstudent92]

I would dissuade anyone from going into dental or medicine for financial gain. 8 years opportunity cost, $300k+ principal debt, saturated markets. For the OP, you better love what you do. Bc unless you love dentistry or medicine, you will burn out quickly bc you will hate the administrative bs of both.

Even hygiene is having a difficult time finding employment now at the advertised figures. If people are worried about corporate, there's a growing opportunity with FQHC and other primary care models. Corporate is only successful bc no one else is offering the target market (eg "working poor") a viable alternative. Sliding fee scale dentistry and smart scheduling/marketing can be a huge boon to the private practitioner in some markets.

Medicine would be 7 years at least opportunity cost. Probably 8 nowadays w/ fellowship and other fluff to enhance the resume for better job opportunities. But how would dentistry be 8? Unless if you're counting college lol which doesn't really count as an opportunity cost b/c mostly everyone nowadays goes to college and needs a degree to get an entry level job. So the investment would be really 4 or 5 (if you do an AEGD) maybe 6 if u do a 2 yr residency ...not too shabby in my opinion even solely from a financial gain perspective if u keep ur debt below 200K.
Lets say someone gets a job for 100K straight out of college (not that common so im presenting a pretty good case scenario financially), in those 6 years you are in school (if you do residency), they have made 600K. Or 400 K if you don't count residency at all. For someone that is in debt under 200K, the investment to save 4 years is most definitely worth that debt and will catch up much quicker if that person is aggressive in putting down the debt and building a practice.

 

[ClosetNerd828]

Nust looked outside,the sky is falling

 

[ncide]

If I were in your shoes I'd gladly take one of your acceptances and matriculate to medical school. Go into a field that emulates the independent aspects of dentistry you like, such as direct primary care or cash-only psychiatry, and never look back and wonder whether you compromised your true career goal.

How come? Did you have enough exposure to dentistry before choosing the dental field?

 

[Advance]

Medicine would be 7 years at least opportunity cost. Probably 8 nowadays w/ fellowship and other fluff to enhance the resume for better job opportunities. But how would dentistry be 8? Unless if you're counting college lol which doesn't really count as an opportunity cost b/c mostly everyone nowadays goes to college and needs a degree to get an entry level job. So the investment would be really 4 or 5 (if you do an AEGD) maybe 6 if u do a 2 yr residency ...not too shabby in my opinion even solely from a financial gain perspective if u keep ur debt below 200K.
Lets say someone gets a job for 100K straight out of college (not that common so im presenting a pretty good case scenario financially), in those 6 years you are in school (if you do residency), they have made 600K. Or 400 K if you don't count residency at all. For someone that is in debt under 200K, the investment to save 4 years is most definitely worth that debt and will catch up much quicker if that person is aggressive in putting down the debt and building a practice.

Under 200k for a dental education?

 

[fellowstudent92]

Under 200k for a dental education?

The very school that you will be going to will help you acheive that!

 

[Advance]

The very school that you will be going to will help you acheive that!

That's definitely not the norm though.

 

[fellowstudent92]

That's definitely not the norm though.

True. But the post I was quoting said "I would dissuade ANYONE from going into dental or medicine for financial gain". This isn't true for those with low debt.

 

[doctorsomeone]

I will be honest, I am in a situation where I am not too worried about the debt from either, in fact going to dental school would cost roughly the same as medical school (without a long road of residency). I am looking at this decision mostly in the view of what/how I'd like to practice 10 years from now. What I am worried about is hours worked a week/workplace environment. My job in a hospital for about a year has really shaken my belief that it would definitely be something I am passionate about. And IMO, you have to be very passionate about something to work intensive overnights (call) regularly, with 70+ work weeks possibly for the rest of your career. Although I admit psychiatry is an interesting suggestion, if it was psychiatry or family medicine vs dentistry, I believe I would probably choose dentistry.

 

[ncide]

My brother is pursuing psychiatry and I am pursuing dentistry. I would choose dentistry over his profession any day, but he does feel that his field is rewarding and intellectually stimulating... and sometimes out of the ordinary. He was just sent to the ER recently after a psych patient attacked him... but I've worked with special needs patients in dentistry and that group can be a bit difficult too.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

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[doctorsomeone]

And with the corporations, are they really an existential threat to the industry? Because from what I have read, a full 90% of dentists are still self-employed. As in, it looks like there is room for everyone (to work for a corporate chain for a few years, and then start your own practice).

 

[480640]

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[480640]

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[Scumbag_Steve]

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[Kazaki]

My brother is pursuing psychiatry and I am pursuing dentistry. I would choose dentistry over his profession any day, but he does feel that his field is rewarding and intellectually stimulating... and sometimes out of the ordinary. He was just sent to the ER recently after a psych patient attacked him... but I've worked with special needs patients in dentistry and that group can be a bit difficult too.

awww did the little tooth hurt you?

 

[ncide]

awww did the little tooth hurt you?

Hm?

 

[doctorsomeone]

Just as an update (if anyone is interested), I decided to go to medical school, and am almost done with my pre-clinical classes. I have enjoyed it so far, and psych is actually one of the specialties I am seriously considering. I just want to thank everyone who commented with very sage advice, I really appreciated the response I got more than a year ago. Happy holidays and merry christmas!