Renaming of Physician Assistants to Physician Associates

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Rabbit Hole said:
For example, physician assistants must respect the fact that physicians are held accountable for the decisions they and the PAs make for their patients. That accountability is awarded to them due to their training, therefore, they are held to a higher standard of responsibility even when **** falls apart and it's not "their fault". Physicians know that when they sign up - and they pay for it as well with malpractice insurance.
Click to expand...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10314667
Members don't see this ad.
 
Starpower said:
Am I missing something? I don't see any PAs clamoring for expanding scope of practice.
Click to expand...

From reading mwppa's posts, it seemed to me as if he wanted an expansion of practice rights, not to mention a name change. Maybe I misconstrued...

Starpower said:
One thing I need to remind people of (and I'm putting my flame suit on), is that yes, med school is 4 years and PA is 2 years, technically. However, PA students have to take classes as pre-reqs that you end up taking in medical school (anatomy, namely). We also don't take summers off, you do. So, there's a little bit of give in that 4 versus 2 comparison.
Click to expand...

I'm not about to flame you, just to preface my statements. We medical students also took pre-requisite courses in college. A list of mine are: anatomy, physiology, microbiology, embryology, cellular biology and histology. We then repeat these classes in medical school. In undergrad, taking these courses was like drinking water out of a water fountain. In medical school, it's like drinking water out of a fire hose. There is absolutely no comparison. So you may take these courses, but so do the majority of medical students who were science majors in undergrad. True, many medical students take the FIRST summer off, but after that, they usually fill up the summer with shadowing, research (a big one), or some other clinically-oriented experience.

And to mwppa,

"Ok, I got it. You are a doctor. A physician. A Dr. Physician. A doctor of Physician studies. In fact, I think they should call you Dr. Physician, M.D. I get the picture."

Good. I'm glad. Now that we have that out of the way...

"Still though, it isn't going to change that PAs WILL get a name change eventually and NPs ARE AND WILL CONTINUE to practice and expand. "Mid-levels" aren't going away."

I hope that NPs do continue to practice. I do NOT hope that they continue to expand. And I'm glad that "mid-levels" aren't going away. I don't want them to. They play a vital role in the medical field. What I do want, however, is mutual respect between the two and for the "mid-levels" to accept their place and embrace their role as exactly that, a mid-level.
 
MrBeauregard said:
I'm not about to flame you, just to preface my statements. We medical students also took pre-requisite courses in college. A list of mine are: anatomy, physiology, microbiology, embryology, cellular biology and histology. We then repeat these classes in medical school. In undergrad, taking these courses was like drinking water out of a water fountain. In medical school, it's like drinking water out of a fire hose. There is absolutely no comparison. So you may take these courses, but so do the majority of medical students who were science majors in undergrad. True, many medical students take the FIRST summer off, but after that, they usually fill up the summer with shadowing, research (a big one), or some other clinically-oriented experience.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I had always been told that medical schools don't want students taking anatomy in undergrad (which never seemed to make much sense to me). My undergrad anatomy was taught through our anthropology department, no pre-meds were allowed unless they were anthro majors, and I had to fight to the teeth to get in. I was with pre-meds in physio, micro and cell and of course all the other chems and bios.

I certainly understand where you're coming from about the fire-hose analogy ... my undergrad anatomy was a lot easier than the advanced anatomy in pa school, even though both were quarter system. I would have killed (almost) to have been able to take micro again. You're lucky. We got a lot of re-hash, but only to a point ... they moved us pretty quickly into clinical application.

All I know is that I'm close to rotations being over and done, and then two preceptorships (for our school, we have two 10-week 'rotations' in either family, emed, or peds, after all of our 5 or 6 week rotations) and then our summative exam, final oral exam, final OSCEs, and then I'm DONE ... well, ready to take the national exam.

I've read that your Step 1 is the most brutal, and that 2 and and some of 3 is closer to what's forced down our throats. I have the Blueprints Step 2 review and I can stumble through it pretty well.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
Rabbit Hole said:
Also,
If a PA wants to be an MD - they must go through medical school, no matter how much they think they know.
If a MD wants to be a PA - they must go through a PA program, no matter how much they think they know.

TOTALLY agree!!!! 100000%

Mutual respect is important and has to be earned between physicians and physician assistants. But when boundaries are crossed like what we are seeing with nurse practitioners, all bets are off. The bottom line is - patient safety and quality of care is the common thread amongst all health care professions. When that is compromised for personal/professional gains - don't expect any respect or sympathy when you get disgraced in the court of public opinion. No matter what propaganda you sell - you will ultimately get called out and have to answer for it ethically as well as with the number of body bags you contribute to in the long run.

I also agree but must point out that this title change proposal DOES NOT call for expansion of scope of practice for PA's.

I think some of this apprehension towards the name change of PAs can be attributed to the DNP stuff going on right now. I think there is a concern from physicians whether this will be a "gateway" for possible exploitation down the road. I thought the proposal was well thought out and I believe some of the reasons presented in the proposal are valid, I also think some of the opposing concerns are valid. I think it's worth it to hear out both sides.

Again, not gonna happen with PA's. Our profession is FOUNDED on the dependent, collaborative relationship with Doctors. DNP was a blatant (and INANE) attempt to usurp, encroach, and replace MD/DO's. One can also argue that NP had this in mind or at least made provision for this by defining, from their inception, their profession as an independent practitioner. PA's know that the ONLY path to becoming a Doctor is to go to med school. I hope we (PAdom and Doctordom) can really put behind any paranoia and avoid slippery slope arguments that assume PA's are trying to replace docs. It really just puts a wedge between the two professions who have found a way to successfully coexist for 40+ years.

The End.
Click to expand...

This whole name change ordeal is jsut an effort to help differentiate what it is that we do as opposed to the other ancillary staff (MA's more specifically). And I hate anecdotal "proof" but I work at an office where I WAS a MA and now am working as a PA-S and I get the whole "weren't you already a MA..." bit not only daily but with every patient who remembers me and explaining everytime just this past year has grown quite tedious. I can only imagine how some of my predecessors feel about this after 10, 20, 30 years of practice.

I am for a change of title that accurately depicts our scope of practice. I actually prefer "Medical Practitioner" but MD/DO's will probably hate that even more!!!:D:D:D
 
MrBeauregard said:
From reading mwppa's posts, it seemed to me as if he wanted an expansion of practice rights, not to mention a name change. Maybe I misconstrued...



We medical students also took pre-requisite courses in college. A list of mine are: anatomy, physiology, microbiology, embryology, cellular biology and histology. We then repeat these classes in medical school.
Click to expand...

I am in favor of a name change. I don't feel that Physician Associate is any better than what we have now however. I heard (I think it was Emedpa) mention advanced practice clinician...I like that.

I can't speak for every med school but I had researched California med schools back when I wanted to be a doctor and none of them required A&P or micro. Most actually discouraged it. Here were the most common courses required:

UCSF
135 quarter units (90 semester units)
General Chemistry - 12 quarter units
Organic Chemistry - 8 q u
Physics w/lab - 12 q u
General Biology w/lab - 12-15 q u
(vertebrate zoology fulfills requirement)

UC Davis
English - 1 year
Bio Sciences - 1 year
Bio Science - 1/2 year upper division* (This is not technically required)
General Chem - 1 year
Organic Chem - 1 year
Physics w/lab - 1 year
College Math - 1 year

UCSD
Same as UCSF but with...
College Math - 1 year (Stats or Calculus only!)

UCLA
Same as UCSD

Stanford
Bio Sciences - 1 year
Chemistry - 2 years w/lab (including Organic Chem)
Physics - 1 year
Bachelor's degree

Keck
Bachelor's degree
Same as UCDavis but with...
Biochemistry - 1 semester
Molecular Bio - 1 semester
Social Sciences, Humanities, English - 30 units

Loma Linda
Same as UC Davis

These are all the California schools I researched. Correct me if I'm wrong on anything.
 
mwppa said:
I am in favor of a name change. I don't feel that Physician Associate is any better than what we have now however. I heard (I think it was Emedpa) mention advanced practice clinician...I like that.

I can't speak for every med school but I had researched California med schools back when I wanted to be a doctor and none of them required A&P or micro. Most actually discouraged it. Here were the most common courses required:

UCSF
135 quarter units (90 semester units)
General Chemistry - 12 quarter units
Organic Chemistry - 8 q u
Physics w/lab - 12 q u
General Biology w/lab - 12-15 q u
(vertebrate zoology fulfills requirement)

UC Davis
English - 1 year
Bio Sciences - 1 year
Bio Science - 1/2 year upper division* (This is not technically required)
General Chem - 1 year
Organic Chem - 1 year
Physics w/lab - 1 year
College Math - 1 year

UCSD
Same as UCSF but with...
College Math - 1 year (Stats or Calculus only!)

UCLA
Same as UCSD

Stanford
Bio Sciences - 1 year
Chemistry - 2 years w/lab (including Organic Chem)
Physics - 1 year
Bachelor's degree

Keck
Bachelor's degree
Same as UCDavis but with...
Biochemistry - 1 semester
Molecular Bio - 1 semester
Social Sciences, Humanities, English - 30 units

Loma Linda
Same as UC Davis

These are all the California schools I researched. Correct me if I'm wrong on anything.
Click to expand...

Yeah, most schools don't require anything beyond the standard g-chem, o-chem, bio, physics requirements. You'll get other stuff occasionally, but its stuff everyone should have to take to graduate anyway - calc and english generally.

I've long thought that using undergrad to argue about anything related to scope is a poor idea. Compared to certainly any doctoral program, and likely the PA curriculum, undergrad science is nothing; a drop in the bucket as it were.
 
Medical schools don't tell applicants not to take anatomy as an undergrad. What they do tell you is it most likely won't help you in medical school and therefore encourage you to take classes that interest you instead. Considering that ~50% of medical school applicants and matriculants are biology majors (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table18-facts09mcatgpabymaj1-web.pdf) which requires a course in anatomy and the remaining majority are other science majors, the majority of medical school matriculants have taken all or some combination of anatomy, biochemistry, physiology, microbiology, embryology, and any other requirement for graduating with that major.

I'm not sure where this rumor came from that medical schools tell you specifically not to take anatomy in college, nor does it make sense.
 
No, mwppa, you are not wrong on anything. All of your research into California schools was correct. The information you posted is what those particular school require for acceptance to their MD program. As J1515 said, those programs don't tell applicants not to take anatomy, but just that it most likely will not help your chances at acceptance. It also will not hurt your chances, which is why a good majority of applicants take it. Not one school I applied to at all discouraged it. I have never heard of that.

That being said, the majority of my fellow graduating Biology majors had taken a combined anatomy/physiology class that was offered through our school.

And no, cadoobie, I am not in favor of the name Medical Practitioner. As I feel I have been fairly clear lately, I like the name just the way it is. Instead of further confusing already confused patients with yet another name change, why not institute public awareness campaigns to inform potential patients of the various names and what it is they do.
 
Do you try to correct the patient by saying that you are not a physician? I have witnessed this all the time and have yet to see a PA correct the pt. To be honest, I would probably do the same (not correct the pt) because it happens all the time. I can imagine getting frustrated by constantly having to correct people.

emedpa said:
Most folks who see a specialty pa think they have seen a physician despite:
1.brochure handed to pts in hospital waiting room explaining what pa is and our role
2.intro as a pa
3.nametag that says pa
4.lab coat that says pa
5.script that says pa
6.aftervisit summary that says pa
7.business card that says pa....

then at the end of the visit: " thanks doc".

when folks send notes to our medical director either positive or negative they almost always say " I saw dr smith and he was wonderful" or "I saw dr smith and he left me in pain", etc

in a private practice folks probably know what a pa is but for single visits to a hospital based em/ortho/surgical/cardiology pa despite all of the above folks just don't get it.

case in point-many physicians don't even know what to call us appropriately. they say physician'S assistant. there is no 's. we don't belong to them. and when we nicely correct them they say" same thing, right?".
how do you think opthalmologists would respond if they were constantly refered to as optometrists?.

some consultants(maybe 5-10% of md's in some settings) only want to speak with our attendings about OUR pts despite the fact that our attendings know nothing about the pt because, well, it's not their pt, it's ours. in the normal course of things most of our pts are never seen by our attendings unless we ask them to.
it can take a long time to find a job where all the md consultants are willing to discuss cases with a pa. I went through 3 jobs over 7 years before I found a setting where this was so. mostly it was about moving to a more pa friendly state with a long history of pa utilization and where the docs trained alongside pa's and knew we were more than medical assistants. seriously, some surgeons won't believe a pt has ct proven appendicitis unless a doc tells them EXACTLY THE SAME THING THAT I JUST DID.

We take far more crap from physicians and other health care professionals that we do from pts.
nurses who are pro-np hate us as we are "taking away np jobs". they even go so far as to refuse common orders unless cosigned by an md/do(totally illegal by the way).
know what happens if no one stops them? pa's quit and only np's will work at those places.don't tell me it doesn't happen.I have seen it first hand. it took firing every nurse who refused appropriate orders for this to stop. that took ten yrs. in the interim all the pa's quit and they hired np's. it took the er medical director becoming chief of staff of the hospital and firing all involved nurses for this to end. now he wants all the open slots to be filled by pa's and whenever an np quits he hires a pa to replace them.

just like I wouldn't presume to tell a member of an ethnic minority that they are not oppressed I don't think non-pa's have any idea of what our day to day practice/experience is like. it's taken me > A DECADE to find a place that appreciates pa's.
trust me on this. I've been involved with the pa profession longer than you have been alive.
pm pacmatt or bandit here at the pa forum. they are em docs that used to be paramedics and pas. they will tell you about some of the frustrations involved. they get it. that's why they moved on. over the years I considered going back to medschool multiple times, even took the prereqs, etc but I just couldn't justify the expense at this point in my life(they are both younger than I am). I would break even financially the year I retire having missed years of my kids lives. my real cost to attend medschool is> 1 million dollars when you consider lost wages and price of school, etc.

ps regarding DO's name. there are multiple threads here about changing the name. do a search for MDO. that is the current name many of them want( medical doctor of ostepathy).
Click to expand...
 
J1515 said:
Medical schools don't tell applicants not to take anatomy as an undergrad. What they do tell you is it most likely won't help you in medical school and therefore encourage you to take classes that interest you instead. Considering that ~50% of medical school applicants and matriculants are biology majors (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table18-facts09mcatgpabymaj1-web.pdf) which requires a course in anatomy and the remaining majority are other science majors, the majority of medical school matriculants have taken all or some combination of anatomy, biochemistry, physiology, microbiology, embryology, and any other requirement for graduating with that major.

I'm not sure where this rumor came from that medical schools tell you specifically not to take anatomy in college, nor does it make sense.
Click to expand...

I've been told that by my health sciences counselors ... I was always told that med schools wanted their students to learn anatomy from them. It could be that it was only at my University, as I said, pre-meds/Bio majors weren't allowed into Anatomy there (unless they were MCD then I believe it's an elective, but even then there's a limited number of seats available to those students and the class is only offered once a year so only some of them make it in). It was primarily Anthro majors and select other students who needed it for pre-reqs (nursing, PT, PA which was namely me, although I was both bio and psych which made it even worse ... I had to seriously fight for my seat).
 
I do steps 1-7 as in my prior post which you quoted. if after that they still call me "doc" I let it slide. if they say "what is your name again, doctor?" I say "emedpa, I'm one of the emergency medicine pa's on staff here".
"doc" is used by folks who know we are pa's quite regularly. even after having discussions with folks about pa's, pa schooling, etc folks always end with"well, thanks doc".
"doctor" I correct.
"doc" I don't as it has basically become shorthand for anyone providing a medical service...ie medics in the armed forces are"doc", etc
 
emedpa said:
I do steps 1-7 as in my prior post which you quoted. if after that they still call me "doc" I let it slide. if they say "what is your name again, doctor?" I say "emedpa, I'm one of the emergency medicine pa's on staff here".
"doc" is used by folks who know we are pa's quite regularly. even after having discussions with folks about pa's, pa schooling, etc folks always end with"well, thanks doc".
"doctor" I correct.
"doc" I don't as it has basically become shorthand for anyone providing a medical service...ie medics in the armed forces are"doc", etc
Click to expand...

The patient would be less confused if you would say "I'm empedpa, I'm one of the emergency medicine physician assistant on staff here" instead of PA.

It could be that the patient was thinking that "PA" was some sort of a certification or specialty of a physician.
 
DNPDoctor said:
The patient would be less confused if you would say "I'm empedpa, I'm one of the emergency medicine physician assistant on staff here" instead of PA.

It could be that the patient was thinking that "PA" was some sort of a certification or specialty of a physician.
Click to expand...

DNPDoctor, don't you hate when patients confuse non-doctors with real doctors like us? :poke:
 
Members don't see this ad :)
DNPDoctor said:
The patient would be less confused if you would say "I'm empedpa, I'm one of the emergency medicine physician assistant on staff here" instead of PA.

It could be that the patient was thinking that "PA" was some sort of a certification or specialty of a physician.
Click to expand...


let's not talk about confusing titles, ok doctor.....
 
This personal attack and the attempt to intentionally provoke a hostile response are really unnecessary.

I don't know any of you, and I have not done one thing to harm or hurt you.

To be frank, it does not feel good to be bullied and stereotyped negatively because I'm part of a certain group.
 
DNPDoctor said:
This personal attack and the attempt to intentionally provoke a hostile response are really unnecessary.

I don't know any of you, and I have not done one thing to harm or hurt you.

To be frank, it does not feel good to be bullied and stereotyped negatively because I'm part of a certain group.
Click to expand...

Alright, I apoligize for jumping to conclusions. Can I ask you what you expect to get out of the DNP degree that you couldn't do with an NP?
 
DNPDoctor said:
To be frank, it does not feel good to be bullied and stereotyped negatively because I'm part of a certain group.
Click to expand...

Then I suggest you request a screen name change. The admins can do that. Whether you agree or not, "DNPDoctor" is inflammatory.
 
J1515 said:
Alright, I apoligize for jumping to conclusions. Can I ask you what you expect to get out of the DNP degree that you couldn't do with an NP?
Click to expand...

I'm itching to read this response...
 
Blue Dog said:
Then I suggest you request a screen name change. The admins can do that. Whether you agree or not, "DNPDoctor" is inflammatory.
Click to expand...

Come on, guys. Let's not make assumptions. Perhaps his or her last name is Doctor? :idea:
 
cpants said:
This wasn't directed at me, but I will respond. I do not think that many PA's could have gone to medical school but decided against it. I think that most of them were interested in medicine, and for whatever reason (low grades, poor MCAT, advanced age, finances, low motivation, etc) that door was not open to them. Many PA's and NP's, especially on this board, like to claim that they were qualified for medical school but decided against it, but in reality, there are not many mid-levels out there sitting on a 4.0 GPA and 35 MCAT.

We really don't care about your anecdotal accounts about PA's and NP's being more beloved to their patients. As I recall, you made an even more outrageous claim that most females prefer to see an NP for their OB/Gyn care, which you chose to ignore when I called you on it.

Even if you were showing me a blinded research study in which patients didn't know if they were seeing MD, PA, or NP to prove your point, I wouldn't care. Because even if patients like you better (which I reject) it doesn't make your care or your training equivalent. It also in no way justifies expanding your scope of practice. PA's have a valuable role, but that role is and should be recognized as below that of a board certified physician.
Click to expand...

Everyone's case is indeed different, but I am pretty certain that if you can get through PA school, you can get through med school. ...and for the record - I would have gone to med school if I wanted, but decided against it due to my age when I decided I wanted to practice medicine and what I wanted to get out of a career.
 
Pharos said:
Everyone's case is indeed different, but I am pretty certain that if you can get through PA school, you can get through med school. ...and for the record - I would have gone to med school if I wanted, but decided against it due to my age when I decided I wanted to practice medicine and what I wanted to get out of a career.
Click to expand...

You exactly fit what I wrote in my post. You were interested in medicine, yet for reasons -- your age and career ambitions -- the MD route was not a good fit for you. Out of curiosity, what was your GPA and did you take the MCAT?

As proof of my point regarding grades, I checked the admissions page for the Duke University PA program. Duke is number 2 on the US News rankings for PA programs, not that that matters, but I'm sure you will agree it's one of the best PA programs in the country.

From their admissions page:
The ranges of academic and experiential qualifications for the middle 50 percent of accepted applicants for Fall 2009 were as follows:

  • Overall GPA: 3.3 – 3.7
  • Natural science GPA: 2.9 – 3.5
  • Total natural science credits: 47 –73
  • GRE General Test scores:
    • Verbal: 463 – 588
    • Quantitative: 613 – 710
    • Analytical Writing: 4.0 – 4.9
  • Months of full-time patient care experience: 11 –31
Click to expand...
So, even at one of the top PA schools, 75% of accepted applicants have an overall GPA below 3.7 and a science GPA below 3.5. I'm sure the numbers are much lower at less well-regarded schools. I'm really not pointing this out as a knock against PA's. I have a lot of respect for you guys. I just think it's misleading to imply, as another poster did, that all PA's could have gone to medical school if they wanted to. The reality is that a substantial portion of PA students simply did not have medical school as an option.
 
Like was said before there are some PA/AAs that probably could have gone to medical school and done well and there are some that wouldn't have been admitted. Is this really that surprising? The ones that could have gone didnt because they didnt want to invest that much time and the one that couldnt may have become a PA/AA because it was he closest profession to a physician. Some people are probably upset that they couldn't get into med school and they probably will never be truly happy as a PA/AA either.
 
cpants said:
You exactly fit what I wrote in my post. You were interested in medicine, yet for reasons -- your age and career ambitions -- the MD route was not a good fit for you. Out of curiosity, what was your GPA and did you take the MCAT?

As proof of my point regarding grades, I checked the admissions page for the Duke University PA program. Duke is number 2 on the US News rankings for PA programs, not that that matters, but I'm sure you will agree it's one of the best PA programs in the country.

From their admissions page:
So, even at one of the top PA schools, 75% of accepted applicants have an overall GPA below 3.7 and a science GPA below 3.5. I'm sure the numbers are much lower at less well-regarded schools. I'm really not pointing this out as a knock against PA's. I have a lot of respect for you guys. I just think it's misleading to imply, as another poster did, that all PA's could have gone to medical school if they wanted to. The reality is that a substantial portion of PA students simply did not have medical school as an option.
Click to expand...

I should add I would've played in the NBA if I wanted, but I didn't think I'd feel fulfilled so I pursued medicine instead. What, does it shock you that in today's society we need to make everyone feel like they could do anything? Just like mommy used to tell you :rolleyes:
 
J1515 said:
How do you know that?
Click to expand...

Did you miss the "pretty certain" part? I didn't pose it as an absolutely certaintly..but now that you've poked - I'd be willing to hedge that it is almost certain. Do you seriously think that med school is that much hardner that someone could honestly get through one and not the other? I agree that it must be harder...it should be - but to infer that a PA student couldn't get through it is both quite arrogant and ignorant to think.
 
Blue Dog said:
But...you didn't.
Click to expand...

Huh? I didn't say get into - I said get through. I didn't want to get through...wasn't worth it for me after much consideration.
 
cpants said:
You exactly fit what I wrote in my post. You were interested in medicine, yet for reasons -- your age and career ambitions -- the MD route was not a good fit for you. Out of curiosity, what was your GPA and did you take the MCAT?

As proof of my point regarding grades, I checked the admissions page for the Duke University PA program. Duke is number 2 on the US News rankings for PA programs, not that that matters, but I'm sure you will agree it's one of the best PA programs in the country.

From their admissions page:
So, even at one of the top PA schools, 75% of accepted applicants have an overall GPA below 3.7 and a science GPA below 3.5. I'm sure the numbers are much lower at less well-regarded schools. I'm really not pointing this out as a knock against PA's. I have a lot of respect for you guys. I just think it's misleading to imply, as another poster did, that all PA's could have gone to medical school if they wanted to. The reality is that a substantial portion of PA students simply did not have medical school as an option.
Click to expand...


You guys are a rough crowd and I can see that you just want to argue, but I'm bored so what the hell - I'll bite. Yes - I did take the MCAT and scored a 30P. What was yours?
 
Pharos said:
Do you seriously think that med school is that much hardner that someone could honestly get through one and not the other? I agree that it must be harder...it should be - but to infer that a PA student couldn't get through it is both quite arrogant and ignorant to think.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think you're the one being arrogant and ignorant in this case.

I'm sure that a few people who become PAs could've become physicians had they chosen to do so. This is purely hypothetical, because...they didn't. The fact that you got an OK score on the MCAT doesn't automatically mean that you could've gotten into medical school, and it certainly doesn't mean that you could've gotten through it.

To suggest, as you did, that all PAs could just have easily become doctors is ridiculous. Even if that's not what you meant, you should at least realize that's how it came across.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Blue Dog said:
Actually, I think you're the one being arrogant and ignorant in this case.
Click to expand...

Ok - think what you want, but I'm guessing that burned you a bit, didn't it? I've seen you on here many times before and know that you are just argumentative and I'm guessing a very disgruntled person. That is a sad way to live what is such a short life.
 
Pharos said:
Ok - think what you want, but I'm guessing that burned you a bit, didn't it? I've seen you on here many times before and know that you are just argumentative and I'm guessing a very disgruntled person. That is a sad way to live what is such a short life.
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't read any of my posts, then. :rolleyes:

For the record, I'm not arguing with you. I'm simply pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about. There's a difference. ;)
 
Yes I have...in all fairness, I will say that it appears that you are an intelligent individual and do make some good points in many of your conversations, but it also seems very much to me that you are very quick to be negative a substantial amount of the time...to the point at which you seem bitter. (Unless I'm missing something in the lack of inflection with text, which I'm doubting for the most part). Like your posts on this topic for example. You can seriously say with a straight and honest face that someone could be smart enough to get through PA school, but couldn't get through medical school? Just how far apart do you think they are? Take note that I'm not one of the people claiming equal footing...if the education was the same, then you guys (i.e. physicians) got seriously short-changed. I'm sure med school is more difficult in knowledge base, and we can all agree that it is substantially harder in the amount of time you put in and crap you go through (which is why I decided it wasn't for me...didn't want to put up with it)....all I'm trying to say is they are at least in the same ball park. It's not like we are comparing an associates in business administration to a phd in molecular physics. Surely they can't be that different in difficulty that one can't get through the other. I'm also not saying that every PA student could have gotten into medical school with the current stats they had used to get into PA school...what I'm trying to say is that if they really wanted it - that if they were capable of getting good enough grades to get into PA school and had the academic ability to get through PA school - that with a little more effort they could have pulled off getting into med school and should have been able to get through it...come on now - don't be that foolish to think it's that impossible.
 
Last edited:
Pharos said:
Yes I have...in all fairness, I will say that it appears that you are an intelligent individual and do make some good points in many of your conversations, but it also seems very much to me that you are very quick to be negative a substantial amount of the time...to the point at which you seem bitter.
Click to expand...

I'm about as far from bitter as anyone can get. I suggest you confine your discussion to the topic, not the participants.
 
For the record, you were doing no different than I when you said I was the one who was arrogant and ignorant. You can suggest what you want...I really don't care anymore and I am done with this argument. It's a waste of perfectly good key strokes and my time.
 
At this point right now, I think Pharos would have done well in medical school.

I don't think young-Pharos would have made it through medical school though.

It's great that you chose PA school and you seem happy. But it's really pointless to brag about your "possible potential" to be an MD after the fact. It gives me the impression that you have some regret.

And I have been imagining Blue Dog in the place of Brian this entire time.
 
Crap - I said I was done, but here I am again. (I have no will power:laugh:)...and the part about the Brian substitution did make me laugh!

Listen, I actually had no intention of bragging and will admit that let myself get caught up in simply trying to defend my comment to an earlier post. I was directly asked and answered.

Without trying to instigate further discourse, I am genuinely confused about what you mean about "young-Pharos"....can you clarify and maybe I can rebute?
 
Another thought...many of the previous posts have had a "prove it" approach when it comes to a PA being able to get through medical school. One could also turn this around and say where is the evidence to say that a PA student could not make it through medical school? There are several PAs on this forum who have indeed done that exact thing. It is all anectodal to a large degree - but in all seriousness - the opponents to this theory make it seem like I'm going to be surrounded by a bunch of idiots (i.e. co-PA students/co-PA workers). I sincerely hope this isn't true.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

T
Where to find physician referral sources
Replies
0
Views
546
texanpsychdoc
T
G
Ethnic Differences in Physician Competence
Replies
0
Views
749
gatotten
G
K
Physician shortage
Replies
2
Views
2K
kstarman
K
j4pac
Physician furlough/paycut thread
Replies
13
Views
3K
kaycee18
kaycee18
Cornfed101
Deny applicants who object to performing abortions and physician assisted suicide?
2 3
Replies
142
Views
8K
deleted480308
D
Top